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Re: [S-R] Edeleny, Hungary- which county?

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  • smontko@buckeye-express.com
    Judy Your question is puzzling but I think the answer is Borsad... 1882 census from Radix on-line gazetteer Borsad Megye Szekhely Miskolc Varosek Miskolc
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 15, 2009
      Judy

      Your question is puzzling but I think the answer is Borsad...



      1882 census from Radix on-line gazetteer

      Borsad Megye

      Szekhely Miskolc

      Varosek Miskolc

      Szendrei járás alsó szakasz
      Székhely: Finke
      Arnót, Bódva, Damak, Disznós-Horvát, Dövény, Dubicsány, Edelény, Finke, Galgóc, Hangács, Jákfalva, Sajó-Kaza, Felsõ-Kelecsény, Kurittyán, Mucsony, Felsõ-Nyárád, Nyomár, Pálfalu, Senye, Szirák, Kálló-Szuha, Sajó-Vámos, Zilis

      Sam

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Judy Hogel
      To: slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:59 PM
      Subject: [S-R] Edeleny, Hungary- which county?



      I am hoping that someone will be able to help me answer a question regarding a location in Hungary, near Budapest.

      From what I have read on line, I believe Edeleny, Hungary (16 mi/25 km north of Miskolc) was included in the combined county of Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen county after WW II. I would like to find out what county Edeleny would have been in prior to that, specifically 1800-1900. I assume it would have been in one of the 3 (Borsod, Abauj or Zemplen), but which?

      Thank you in advance for any help you might be able to give.

      Judy

      __________________________________________________________
      Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
      http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Judy Hogel
      Sam and John, Thank you for providing an answer to my question. The Radix site provided even more valuable information. However I need some clarification of
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 15, 2009
        Sam and John,



        Thank you for providing an answer to my question.



        The Radix site provided even more valuable information. However I need some clarification of what I am reading. I am trying to relate this information to U.S. location descriptions of ----state, county, city, town.



        Would menge (county) = U..S. county or state?



        Would szekhely (seat) = U.S. city or capital?



        Would nagykozseg-s (large village) = U.S. town?



        Thanks again



        Judy



        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        From: smontko@...
        Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:22:27 -0400
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Edeleny, Hungary- which county?





        Judy

        Your question is puzzling but I think the answer is Borsad...

        1882 census from Radix on-line gazetteer

        Borsad Megye

        Szekhely Miskolc

        Varosek Miskolc

        Szendrei járás alsó szakasz
        Székhely: Finke
        Arnót, Bódva, Damak, Disznós-Horvát, Dövény, Dubicsány, Edelény, Finke, Galgóc, Hangács, Jákfalva, Sajó-Kaza, Felsõ-Kelecsény, Kurittyán, Mucsony, Felsõ-Nyárád, Nyomár, Pálfalu, Senye, Szirák, Kálló-Szuha, Sajó-Vámos, Zilis

        Sam

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Judy Hogel
        To: slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:59 PM
        Subject: [S-R] Edeleny, Hungary- which county?

        I am hoping that someone will be able to help me answer a question regarding a location in Hungary, near Budapest.

        From what I have read on line, I believe Edeleny, Hungary (16 mi/25 km north of Miskolc) was included in the combined county of Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen county after WW II. I would like to find out what county Edeleny would have been in prior to that, specifically 1800-1900. I assume it would have been in one of the 3 (Borsod, Abauj or Zemplen), but which?

        Thank you in advance for any help you might be able to give.

        Judy

        __________________________________________________________
        Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
        http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









        _________________________________________________________________
        Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
        http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bill Tarkulich
        no 1-1 correlation, but this is close MEYGE = county - American State Jaras = District - American County Székhely = County Seat - American State Capital
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 16, 2009
          no 1-1 correlation, but this is close

          MEYGE = county -> American State
          Jaras = District -> American County
          Székhely = County Seat -> American State Capital

          Nagy = large. when affixed to a town name, it is relative in size.

          I've not seen the designations for hamlet, village or town in use. I
          usually just label them based on population. So many "villages" have/had
          300-500 people, that they are equivalent to unincorporated American
          hamlets. Often 2, 3 or 4 hamlets are centrally administered by one
          (sometimes)larger "village". They are all called "villages". Larger
          American-class "towns" (greater than 1000 population) are few, such as
          Snina, and even Presov. To an American standard, only Kosice and
          Bratislava could be considered "cities" by American standards. However,
          there are several "towns" that are just as important as a city, given
          their position and economic importance to the region (i.e., Presov.)
          I'm sure others will disagree on the specifics, but this is the general plan.

          Today, I believe the term in use for a collection of hamlets is a
          "micro-region". You will often see contemporary web sites organized this
          way.

          nagykozseg-s (large village) -> American Town - well, as a general rule
          yes, but you will quickly find the definition is somewhat subjective
          (thank you Janos!) and there are exceptions. Larger villages tend to
          have their own central administration, but in recent years you'll see many
          nearby "hamlets" have been "annexed" (American term) and ceased to be
          culturally autonomous.

          You will see a the same theme present in church records. There is a
          "parish" made up of 2 or 3 "hamlet" churches. One hamlet is the main
          church, where the priest resides. The one priest serves all churches in
          the parish. As with civil administration, this was done for economies of
          scale, and is still the case today.

          It's important to recognize that 100 years ago, the county was the center
          of our ancestors universe. The notion of national awareness was
          non-extant. That's why often you see the ancestors county listed as part
          of their place of origin.


          You would learn a lot by studying the maps:
          http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/vmlista.htm

          Regards,
          Bill



          On Tue, September 15, 2009 9:25 pm, Judy Hogel wrote:
          >
          > Sam and John,
          >
          >
          >
          > Thank you for providing an answer to my question.
          >
          >
          >
          > The Radix site provided even more valuable information. However I need
          > some clarification of what I am reading. I am trying to relate this
          > information to U.S. location descriptions of ----state, county, city,
          > town.
          >
          >
          >
          > Would menge (county) = U..S. county or state?
          >
          >
          >
          > Would szekhely (seat) = U.S. city or capital?
          >
          >
          >
          > Would nagykozseg-s (large village) = U.S. town?
          >
          >
          >
          > Thanks again
          >
          >
          >
          > Judy
          >
          >
          >
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > From: smontko@...
          > Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:22:27 -0400
          > Subject: Re: [S-R] Edeleny, Hungary- which county?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Judy
          >
          > Your question is puzzling but I think the answer is Borsad...
          >
          > 1882 census from Radix on-line gazetteer
          >
          > Borsad Megye
          >
          > Szekhely Miskolc
          >
          > Varosek Miskolc
          >
          > Szendrei járás alsó szakasz
          > Székhely: Finke
          > Arnót, Bódva, Damak, Disznós-Horvát, Dövény, Dubicsány, Edelény, Finke,
          > Galgóc, Hangács, Jákfalva, Sajó-Kaza, Felsõ-Kelecsény, Kurittyán, Mucsony,
          > Felsõ-Nyárád, Nyomár, Pálfalu, Senye, Szirák, Kálló-Szuha, Sajó-Vámos,
          > Zilis
          >
          > Sam
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Judy Hogel
          > To: slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:59 PM
          > Subject: [S-R] Edeleny, Hungary- which county?
          >
          > I am hoping that someone will be able to help me answer a question
          > regarding a location in Hungary, near Budapest.
          >
          > From what I have read on line, I believe Edeleny, Hungary (16 mi/25 km
          > north of Miskolc) was included in the combined county of
          > Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen county after WW II. I would like to find out what
          > county Edeleny would have been in prior to that, specifically 1800-1900. I
          > assume it would have been in one of the 3 (Borsod, Abauj or Zemplen), but
          > which?
          >
          > Thank you in advance for any help you might be able to give.
          >
          > Judy
          >
          > __________________________________________________________
          > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
          > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > _________________________________________________________________
          > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
          > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
          > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
          > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >


          --
          Bill Tarkulich
          http://www.iabsi.com
        • Judy Hogel
          Bill, Thank you for your very thorough explanation. My genealogy program s mapping component requires that a location be entered following the U.S. state,
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 16, 2009
            Bill,

            Thank you for your very thorough explanation. My genealogy program's mapping component requires that a location be entered following the U.S. state, county, city/town format in order for the location to be plotted. Your response helps a great deal in putting these geographical/governmental terms in a perspective that is familiar. Your comment about how our ancestors viewed their "home location" is an important reminder of how much more narrowly they perceived their home when compared to how we view the world today.

            Thanks again for all that you do to help us,
            Judy



            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            From: bill.tarkulich@...
            Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:34:18 -0400
            Subject: RE: [S-R] Edeleny, Hungary- which county?





            no 1-1 correlation, but this is close

            MEYGE = county -> American State
            Jaras = District -> American County
            Székhely = County Seat -> American State Capital

            Nagy = large. when affixed to a town name, it is relative in size.

            I've not seen the designations for hamlet, village or town in use. I
            usually just label them based on population. So many "villages" have/had
            300-500 people, that they are equivalent to unincorporated American
            hamlets. Often 2, 3 or 4 hamlets are centrally administered by one
            (sometimes)larger "village". They are all called "villages". Larger
            American-class "towns" (greater than 1000 population) are few, such as
            Snina, and even Presov. To an American standard, only Kosice and
            Bratislava could be considered "cities" by American standards. However,
            there are several "towns" that are just as important as a city, given
            their position and economic importance to the region (i.e., Presov.)
            I'm sure others will disagree on the specifics, but this is the general plan.

            Today, I believe the term in use for a collection of hamlets is a
            "micro-region". You will often see contemporary web sites organized this
            way.

            nagykozseg-s (large village) -> American Town - well, as a general rule
            yes, but you will quickly find the definition is somewhat subjective
            (thank you Janos!) and there are exceptions. Larger villages tend to
            have their own central administration, but in recent years you'll see many
            nearby "hamlets" have been "annexed" (American term) and ceased to be
            culturally autonomous.

            You will see a the same theme present in church records. There is a
            "parish" made up of 2 or 3 "hamlet" churches. One hamlet is the main
            church, where the priest resides. The one priest serves all churches in
            the parish. As with civil administration, this was done for economies of
            scale, and is still the case today.

            It's important to recognize that 100 years ago, the county was the center
            of our ancestors universe. The notion of national awareness was
            non-extant. That's why often you see the ancestors county listed as part
            of their place of origin.

            You would learn a lot by studying the maps:
            http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/vmlista.htm

            Regards,
            Bill

            On Tue, September 15, 2009 9:25 pm, Judy Hogel wrote:
            >
            > Sam and John,
            >
            >
            >
            > Thank you for providing an answer to my question.
            >
            >
            >
            > The Radix site provided even more valuable information. However I need
            > some clarification of what I am reading. I am trying to relate this
            > information to U.S. location descriptions of ----state, county, city,
            > town.
            >
            >
            >
            > Would menge (county) = U..S. county or state?
            >
            >
            >
            > Would szekhely (seat) = U.S. city or capital?
            >
            >
            >
            > Would nagykozseg-s (large village) = U.S. town?
            >
            >
            >
            > Thanks again
            >
            >
            >
            > Judy
            >
            >
            >
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > From: smontko@...
            > Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:22:27 -0400
            > Subject: Re: [S-R] Edeleny, Hungary- which county?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Judy
            >
            > Your question is puzzling but I think the answer is Borsad...
            >
            > 1882 census from Radix on-line gazetteer
            >
            > Borsad Megye
            >
            > Szekhely Miskolc
            >
            > Varosek Miskolc
            >
            > Szendrei járás alsó szakasz
            > Székhely: Finke
            > Arnót, Bódva, Damak, Disznós-Horvát, Dövény, Dubicsány, Edelény, Finke,
            > Galgóc, Hangács, Jákfalva, Sajó-Kaza, Felsõ-Kelecsény, Kurittyán, Mucsony,
            > Felsõ-Nyárád, Nyomár, Pálfalu, Senye, Szirák, Kálló-Szuha, Sajó-Vámos,
            > Zilis
            >
            > Sam
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Judy Hogel
            > To: slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:59 PM
            > Subject: [S-R] Edeleny, Hungary- which county?
            >
            > I am hoping that someone will be able to help me answer a question
            > regarding a location in Hungary, near Budapest.
            >
            > From what I have read on line, I believe Edeleny, Hungary (16 mi/25 km
            > north of Miskolc) was included in the combined county of
            > Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen county after WW II. I would like to find out what
            > county Edeleny would have been in prior to that, specifically 1800-1900. I
            > assume it would have been in one of the 3 (Borsod, Abauj or Zemplen), but
            > which?
            >
            > Thank you in advance for any help you might be able to give.
            >
            > Judy
            >
            > __________________________________________________________
            > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
            > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________________________________
            > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
            > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
            > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >

            --
            Bill Tarkulich
            http://www.iabsi.com









            _________________________________________________________________
            Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
            http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Bill Tarkulich
            Judy, I find it annoying when people/companies develop programs that want us to fit everything into an American way of thinking and organizing. Most annoying
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 16, 2009
              Judy,

              I find it annoying when people/companies develop programs that want us to
              fit everything into an American way of thinking and organizing. Most
              annoying is that many genealogy programs can't even handle foreign
              character set. In a field such as genealogy, they should be seeking to
              use geographic information systems standards that have been agreed to by
              international bodies.

              Kudos to you for trying to make a round peg fit into a square hole.

              Regards,
              Bill

              On Wed, September 16, 2009 10:23 am, Judy Hogel wrote:
              >
              > Bill,
              >
              > Thank you for your very thorough explanation. My genealogy program's
              > mapping component requires that a location be entered following the U.S.
              > state, county, city/town format in order for the location to be plotted.
              > Your response helps a great deal in putting these
              > geographical/governmental terms in a perspective that is familiar. Your
              > comment about how our ancestors viewed their "home location" is an
              > important reminder of how much more narrowly they perceived their home
              > when compared to how we view the world today.
              >
              > Thanks again for all that you do to help us,
              > Judy
              >
              >
            • Caye Caswick
                Thanks -- and I remember the first 50 times I looked at those old maps -- I was totally LOST -- however, the more you stare and the more you compare with
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 16, 2009
                 
                Thanks -- and I remember the first 50 times I looked at those old maps -- I was totally LOST -- however, the more you stare and the more you compare with modern maps -- the better you get at it -- so don't give up -- keep going back and looking, it really begins to make sense after lots of attempts.
                 
                 
                Caye


                --- On Wed, 9/16/09, Judy Hogel <hogelj@...> wrote:


                From: Judy Hogel <hogelj@...>
                Subject: RE: [S-R] Edeleny, Hungary- which county?
                To: slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Wednesday, September 16, 2009, 9:23 AM


                 




                Bill,

                Thank you for your very thorough explanation. My genealogy program's mapping component requires that a location be entered following the U.S. state, county, city/town format in order for the location to be plotted. Your response helps a great deal in putting these geographical/ governmental terms in a perspective that is familiar. Your comment about how our ancestors viewed their "home location" is an important reminder of how much more narrowly they perceived their home when compared to how we view the world today.

                Thanks again for all that you do to help us,
                Judy


                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
                From: bill.tarkulich@ iabsi.com
                Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:34:18 -0400
                Subject: RE: [S-R] Edeleny, Hungary- which county?

                no 1-1 correlation, but this is close

                MEYGE = county -> American State
                Jaras = District -> American County
                Székhely = County Seat -> American State Capital

                Nagy = large. when affixed to a town name, it is relative in size.

                I've not seen the designations for hamlet, village or town in use. I
                usually just label them based on population. So many "villages" have/had
                300-500 people, that they are equivalent to unincorporated American
                hamlets. Often 2, 3 or 4 hamlets are centrally administered by one
                (sometimes)larger "village". They are all called "villages". Larger
                American-class "towns" (greater than 1000 population) are few, such as
                Snina, and even Presov. To an American standard, only Kosice and
                Bratislava could be considered "cities" by American standards. However,
                there are several "towns" that are just as important as a city, given
                their position and economic importance to the region (i.e., Presov.)
                I'm sure others will disagree on the specifics, but this is the general plan.

                Today, I believe the term in use for a collection of hamlets is a
                "micro-region" . You will often see contemporary web sites organized this
                way.

                nagykozseg-s (large village) -> American Town - well, as a general rule
                yes, but you will quickly find the definition is somewhat subjective
                (thank you Janos!) and there are exceptions. Larger villages tend to
                have their own central administration, but in recent years you'll see many
                nearby "hamlets" have been "annexed" (American term) and ceased to be
                culturally autonomous.

                You will see a the same theme present in church records. There is a
                "parish" made up of 2 or 3 "hamlet" churches. One hamlet is the main
                church, where the priest resides. The one priest serves all churches in
                the parish. As with civil administration, this was done for economies of
                scale, and is still the case today.

                It's important to recognize that 100 years ago, the county was the center
                of our ancestors universe. The notion of national awareness was
                non-extant. That's why often you see the ancestors county listed as part
                of their place of origin.

                You would learn a lot by studying the maps:
                http://lazarus. elte.hu/hun/ maps/1910/ vmlista.htm

                Regards,
                Bill

                On Tue, September 15, 2009 9:25 pm, Judy Hogel wrote:
                >
                > Sam and John,
                >
                >
                >
                > Thank you for providing an answer to my question.
                >
                >
                >
                > The Radix site provided even more valuable information. However I need
                > some clarification of what I am reading. I am trying to relate this
                > information to U.S. location descriptions of ----state, county, city,
                > town.
                >
                >
                >
                > Would menge (county) = U..S. county or state?
                >
                >
                >
                > Would szekhely (seat) = U.S. city or capital?
                >
                >
                >
                > Would nagykozseg-s (large village) = U.S. town?
                >
                >
                >
                > Thanks again
                >
                >
                >
                > Judy
                >
                >
                >
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
                > From: smontko@buckeye- express.com
                > Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:22:27 -0400
                > Subject: Re: [S-R] Edeleny, Hungary- which county?
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Judy
                >
                > Your question is puzzling but I think the answer is Borsad...
                >
                > 1882 census from Radix on-line gazetteer
                >
                > Borsad Megye
                >
                > Szekhely Miskolc
                >
                > Varosek Miskolc
                >
                > Szendrei járás alsó szakasz
                > Székhely: Finke
                > Arnót, Bódva, Damak, Disznós-Horvát, Dövény, Dubicsány, Edelény, Finke,
                > Galgóc, Hangács, Jákfalva, Sajó-Kaza, Felsõ-Kelecsény, Kurittyán, Mucsony,
                > Felsõ-Nyárád, Nyomár, Pálfalu, Senye, Szirák, Kálló-Szuha, Sajó-Vámos,
                > Zilis
                >
                > Sam
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Judy Hogel
                > To: slovak-roots@ yahoogroups. com
                > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:59 PM
                > Subject: [S-R] Edeleny, Hungary- which county?
                >
                > I am hoping that someone will be able to help me answer a question
                > regarding a location in Hungary, near Budapest.
                >
                > From what I have read on line, I believe Edeleny, Hungary (16 mi/25 km
                > north of Miskolc) was included in the combined county of
                > Borsod-Abauj- Zemplen county after WW II. I would like to find out what
                > county Edeleny would have been in prior to that, specifically 1800-1900. I
                > assume it would have been in one of the 3 (Borsod, Abauj or Zemplen), but
                > which?
                >
                > Thank you in advance for any help you might be able to give.
                >
                > Judy
                >
                > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
                > http://clk.atdmt. com/GBL/go/ 171222984/ direct/01/
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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              • Frank R Plichta
                It is difficult to make generalizations about municipal subdivisions since these are really controlled by local legislation. In the United States, there is
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 16, 2009
                  It is difficult to make generalizations about municipal subdivisions since
                  these are really controlled by local legislation.



                  In the United States, there is generally state legislation that defines if a
                  location is a city or a town within a county. In Virginia the legislation
                  provided for 95 counties and 39 cities. In Virginia the cities are
                  “independent cities” in that they are separate and not a part of any county.
                  There is no legislative body between the city and the state like there is
                  for a town where the county is another legislative body between the town and
                  the state.



                  I’m sure it is different in other states within the United States and
                  perhaps even so in many foreign countries.



                  It is difficult therefore to make any generalizations about territorial
                  subdivisions and the enabling legislation that forms the local governing
                  bodies.



                  Frank



                  _____

                  From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Bill Tarkulich
                  Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:34 AM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [S-R] Edeleny, Hungary- which county?





                  no 1-1 correlation, but this is close

                  MEYGE = county -> American State
                  Jaras = District -> American County
                  Székhely = County Seat -> American State Capital

                  Nagy = large. when affixed to a town name, it is relative in size.

                  I've not seen the designations for hamlet, village or town in use. I
                  usually just label them based on population. So many "villages" have/had
                  300-500 people, that they are equivalent to unincorporated American
                  hamlets. Often 2, 3 or 4 hamlets are centrally administered by one
                  (sometimes)larger "village". They are all called "villages". Larger
                  American-class "towns" (greater than 1000 population) are few, such as
                  Snina, and even Presov. To an American standard, only Kosice and
                  Bratislava could be considered "cities" by American standards. However,
                  there are several "towns" that are just as important as a city, given
                  their position and economic importance to the region (i.e., Presov.)
                  I'm sure others will disagree on the specifics, but this is the general
                  plan.

                  Today, I believe the term in use for a collection of hamlets is a
                  "micro-region". You will often see contemporary web sites organized this
                  way.

                  nagykozseg-s (large village) -> American Town - well, as a general rule
                  yes, but you will quickly find the definition is somewhat subjective
                  (thank you Janos!) and there are exceptions. Larger villages tend to
                  have their own central administration, but in recent years you'll see many
                  nearby "hamlets" have been "annexed" (American term) and ceased to be
                  culturally autonomous.

                  You will see a the same theme present in church records. There is a
                  "parish" made up of 2 or 3 "hamlet" churches. One hamlet is the main
                  church, where the priest resides. The one priest serves all churches in
                  the parish. As with civil administration, this was done for economies of
                  scale, and is still the case today.

                  It's important to recognize that 100 years ago, the county was the center
                  of our ancestors universe. The notion of national awareness was
                  non-extant. That's why often you see the ancestors county listed as part
                  of their place of origin.

                  You would learn a lot by studying the maps:
                  http://lazarus. <http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/vmlista.htm>
                  elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/vmlista.htm

                  Regards,
                  Bill

                  On Tue, September 15, 2009 9:25 pm, Judy Hogel wrote:
                  >
                  > Sam and John,
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Thank you for providing an answer to my question.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The Radix site provided even more valuable information. However I need
                  > some clarification of what I am reading. I am trying to relate this
                  > information to U.S. location descriptions of ----state, county, city,
                  > town.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Would menge (county) = U..S. county or state?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Would szekhely (seat) = U.S. city or capital?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Would nagykozseg-s (large village) = U.S. town?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Thanks again
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Judy
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                  > From: smontko@buckeye- <mailto:smontko%40buckeye-express.com> express.com
                  > Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:22:27 -0400
                  > Subject: Re: [S-R] Edeleny, Hungary- which county?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Judy
                  >
                  > Your question is puzzling but I think the answer is Borsad...
                  >
                  > 1882 census from Radix on-line gazetteer
                  >
                  > Borsad Megye
                  >
                  > Szekhely Miskolc
                  >
                  > Varosek Miskolc
                  >
                  > Szendrei járás alsó szakasz
                  > Székhely: Finke
                  > Arnót, Bódva, Damak, Disznós-Horvát, Dövény, Dubicsány, Edelény, Finke,
                  > Galgóc, Hangács, Jákfalva, Sajó-Kaza, Felsõ-Kelecsény, Kurittyán, Mucsony,
                  > Felsõ-Nyárád, Nyomár, Pálfalu, Senye, Szirák, Kálló-Szuha, Sajó-Vámos,
                  > Zilis
                  >
                  > Sam
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Judy Hogel
                  > To: slovak-roots@ <mailto:slovak-roots%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:59 PM
                  > Subject: [S-R] Edeleny, Hungary- which county?
                  >
                  > I am hoping that someone will be able to help me answer a question
                  > regarding a location in Hungary, near Budapest.
                  >
                  > From what I have read on line, I believe Edeleny, Hungary (16 mi/25 km
                  > north of Miskolc) was included in the combined county of
                  > Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen county after WW II. I would like to find out what
                  > county Edeleny would have been in prior to that, specifically 1800-1900. I
                  > assume it would have been in one of the 3 (Borsod, Abauj or Zemplen), but
                  > which?
                  >
                  > Thank you in advance for any help you might be able to give.
                  >
                  > Judy
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________________
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