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RE: [S-R] Name Changes GURKO

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  • Bill Tarkulich
    And I m told that even now sometimes Hungarians doo mean things like cause a disturbance at a ball game. or burn a Slovak flag in Budapest.. Sadly,
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 6, 2009
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      " And I'm told that even now sometimes Hungarians doo mean things like
      cause a disturbance at a ball game. or burn a Slovak flag in Budapest.."

      Sadly, that still goes on in many countries, not just Slovakia.



      Tom
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Tom Geiss
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:20 PM
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Name Changes


      Thanks , Bill, for your input. I do know the ancestral villages. I guess
      this group is getting tired of hearing my story, but I will bore you all
      once more with the details.
      First of all , here is what I learned a few years ago, from reports of my
      grandmother, aunts, uncles (all since deceased). My grandma's family, (which
      was Austrian, and spoke German) had a large farm in Iglo , Hungary, (after
      1918 it became Spisska Nova Ves). They were prosperous for the times, had
      many servants and workers.
      The farm was confiscated during WW1, and family living there were all
      killed.
      Only those who left the farm prior to the war were alive.

      (The descendents of these I've been seeking the last three years, with the
      help of my AMERICAN friend, who lives in SNV. Has lived there since 1939,
      when , at 13 , she got stuck there by the war.)
      I have found most of my grandma's siblings, on LDS microfilms, which are
      authentic, (including illegible handwriting). Also I have much of my
      grandma's PEDIGREE, which I paid the Levoca Archives to do, all the way back
      to 1764. (they found as much as my money would allow).
      Then a year and a half ago I heard about a letter written to grandma in
      the thirties, from BREZOVICA NAD TORYSA. I E-mailed this info to my friend
      in SNV, and she called her friend ,Anna Mikova, who lives there, and was
      told that the GURKOS (Gurkas??) used to live there , but they're all gone.
      In subsequent weeks Anna talked to older people, whose parents and
      grandparents used to work for the Gurkas.

      I obtained, from the Presov Archives the marriage docoment of my
      grandmother's brother JOZSEF GURKO, and his wife Terezia Guminszki, for
      verification that he was the same one born in Spisska Nova Ves. Of course
      I'm taking the archives' word for this, since this is NOT AN ORIGINAL
      DOCUMENT?? I believe that there are words in Slovak at the bottom, that (I
      think ) state this.
      They had a son, killed in WW1, and three daughters, RUZENA ALZBETA, AND
      TEREZIA.
      Their house is the one that is NO LONGER THERE. Vladi was there last June.
      The three daughters are supposed to have gone to Kosice.
      Their daughter ,Ruzena, was Anna Mikova,s teacher in school (5th to 9th
      grades), in the 1940's. So , Michael, this would be a different Ruzena,
      since you say she died in 1930. Anna Mikova went to her funeral, (and Anna
      wasn't born until 1936).
      There is so much more, but this is getting long.
      Jozef Gurko was born in 1866, got married in 1893.

      All I have to do is find out where my AUSTRIAN family got the Slavik name
      of GURKO ??
      Thanks for all the help so far. Tom
    • Bill Tarkulich
      Tom, Documentation mistakes still cannot be discounted. Nobody was looking for positive ID until the 1960s, especially in Czechoslovakia. So you got info
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 6, 2009
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        Tom,
        Documentation mistakes still cannot be discounted. Nobody was looking for
        "positive ID" until the 1960s, especially in Czechoslovakia.

        So you got info that GURKO/GURKA did exist in the village. My "hunch" and
        it is just that is that GURKO maybe a Rusyn name with roots in the East of
        present-day Slovakia. GURKA may be a Magyar name with roots in present-day
        Hungary.

        I would want to know from Anna Mikova:
        1. What years did these family live there?
        2. What religion were they?
        3. Has someone checked the cemetery? Are they buried there.

        It's possible they were "nomadic", or at least, had all their BMDs
        consummated elsewhere.

        RUZENA ALZBETA, AND TEREZIA - these are interesting given names. Middle
        name is Slovak, the other two are Czech. What religion were they baptized?

        Have you had anyone go to the SNV town offices and look for BMD records?
        Privacy laws apply of course. I'd be interested in records from 1895
        forward.

        What year did GURKO name start showing up in the records, where, and what
        was the birth year of that GURKO?

        There are other less "clean" reasons for all of this. Rape. Adoption.
        Death. War. Name gets changed later. Illegitimate birth. These are hugely
        difficult to figure out.
        For example, My grandmother's sister went to Ukraine to work, had an
        illegitimate son, returned to the village, married later and had more
        children. The son had the blood father's surname. Later, he detested that
        name so much, he legally changed his surname to something else. I never
        would have uncovered that without his daughter's testimony.

        I would study the period around World War One carefully.
        Build a timeline, not a pedigree, and try to fill in the events.

        1866 - JOZSEF GURKO born

        1884-1892 Of course conscription from 18 to 22 was expected.

        1893 - Jozef Gurko married. The archives looked this info up for you? You
        can do it yourself at the FHC. Pull the 1893 film of the ORIGINAL DOCUMENT,
        it will state their village of origin.

        1893 - 1903 - Ruzena's parents were having kids (implied). 4 kids @ 2 years
        each +25%.

        1914-1918 WW1
        1918 - Most landowners flee the country but continue to own the land.

        1936 - Anna Mickova born
        1940s - Ruzena was teaching -so she had to be late 30s to late 40s in age.
        1950s - Estate property was transferred to state control.

        1960s - I would expect Ruzena and siblings to have died around this time


        Look at this, he married right out of the military. Where was he married?
        You cannot discount that the MIKOS was not a nomadic family.

        Another idea is to inspect property records from the village(s) in question.
        If the family was affluent, they undoubtedly would hold property and there
        would be a record of this. This can be done online or via Peter Nagy.
        http://www.centroconsult.sk/genealogy/land.html

        Good Luck,

        Regard,

        Bill


        -----Original Message-----
        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Tom Geiss
        Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 6:21 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Name Changes

        Thanks , Bill, for your input. I do know the ancestral villages. I
        guess this group is getting tired of hearing my story, but I will bore you
        all once more with the details.
        First of all , here is what I learned a few years ago, from reports
        of my grandmother, aunts, uncles (all since deceased). My grandma's
        family, (which was Austrian, and spoke German) had a large farm in Iglo ,
        Hungary, (after 1918 it became Spisska Nova Ves). They were prosperous for
        the times, had many servants and workers.
        The farm was confiscated during WW1, and family living there were all
        killed.
        Only those who left the farm prior to the war were alive.

        (The descendents of these I've been seeking the last three years, with
        the help of my AMERICAN friend, who lives in SNV. Has lived there since
        1939, when , at 13 , she got stuck there by the war.)
        I have found most of my grandma's siblings, on LDS microfilms, which
        are authentic, (including illegible handwriting). Also I have much of my
        grandma's PEDIGREE, which I paid the Levoca Archives to do, all the way
        back to 1764. (they found as much as my money would allow).
        Then a year and a half ago I heard about a letter written to grandma in
        the thirties, from BREZOVICA NAD TORYSA. I E-mailed this info to my
        friend in SNV, and she called her friend ,Anna Mikova, who lives there, and
        was told that the GURKOS (Gurkas??) used to live there , but they're all
        gone. In subsequent weeks Anna talked to older people, whose parents and
        grandparents used to work for the Gurkas.

        I obtained, from the Presov Archives the marriage docoment of my
        grandmother's brother JOZSEF GURKO, and his wife Terezia Guminszki, for
        verification that he was the same one born in Spisska Nova Ves. Of
        course I'm taking the archives' word for this, since this is NOT AN ORIGINAL
        DOCUMENT?? I believe that there are words in Slovak at the bottom, that
        (I think ) state this.
        They had a son, killed in WW1, and three daughters, RUZENA ALZBETA, AND
        TEREZIA.
        Their house is the one that is NO LONGER THERE. Vladi was there last
        June.
        The three daughters are supposed to have gone to Kosice.
        Their daughter ,Ruzena, was Anna Mikova,s teacher in school (5th to 9th
        grades), in the 1940's. So , Michael, this would be a different
        Ruzena, since you say she died in 1930. Anna Mikova went to her
        funeral, (and Anna wasn't born until 1936).
        There is so much more, but this is getting long.
        Jozef Gurko was born in 1866, got married in 1893.

        All I have to do is find out where my AUSTRIAN family got the Slavik
        name of GURKO ??
        Thanks for all the help so far. Tom
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Michael Mojher
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 2:40 PM
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Name Changes


        Tom,
        I was up late working on another project. I had some time to kill during
        it and plugged in your surnames while waiting.
        That one Gurko in the 1995 Census was located in Castkov in the district
        of Senica. If there was only one Gurko in 1995 it could well be if they died
        there are no longer any left in Slovakia. I could understand them hiding
        prior to 1993, but after that they would have no reason to fear being
        "Sl'achtic".
        Of all things, as I write my translators from my first two trips to
        Slovakia are visiting me. They are from Kosice. If you like I will see if
        they will search out your relatives grave. Send all the information you have
        on it.
        I did find this -
        Last and first name Age Place of burial Date of funeral includes

        Gurkó István 0 Kosice - Verejný cintorín 02.05.1896
        Gurko Mihály 0 Kosice - Verejný cintorín 24.06.1898
        Gurková Ruzena 0 Kosice - Verejný cintorín 30.09.1930
        Gurková Anna 82 Kosice - Verejný cintorín - Kolumbárium 00.00.1996

        Link - http://www.cemetery.sk/english/?

        I'm not sure why the first three has an age of "0". Possibly they did die
        at or close to birth and no age was given.
        I read where the Rozalia cemetery is very large and finding grave sites
        can be difficult. At least you know Anna is in the Kolumbarium, which should
        make it easier to find her. I can ask Maros to take a photograph of it for
        you.

        From: Tom Geiss
        Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 11:24 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Name Changes

        Thanks, Mike, for looking that up. I will print taat and save it.
        I see you sent it at 1.00 AM. You were working overtime.
        In the case of the GURKO name, it's the other way around though. I found
        my grandma's GURKO family, on microfilm, but can't find anybody with that
        name today.
        They were kicked out of one town at the time of WW1, or before. And kicked
        out of another one after WW2, probably by the communists.
        According to one marriage record , some were "SL'ACHTIC " (Aristocratic)
        in other words, Too High Class for their own good.
        When Vladi went to Brezovica this summer to get me a photo of the family
        house (or ruins thereof) he was shown a sign that read, " Here is where the
        Gurko family house was "
        I'm suspecting that if there are any survivors left, that they are HIDING
        , have probably changed their name, and don't want to be found. I know of
        one who was buried in Kosice, in ROSALIA CEMETERY?? not too many years ago.
        Someday I'll get someone to go there and find out how her last name is
        spelled.
        Tom
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Michael Mojher
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 1:43 AM
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Name Changes

        Tom,
        I used the 1995 Slovakia Census database to search the spellings of the
        surnames to listed in your message.
        Hudeck 0 hits, a list of alternatives was given.
        Hudek - 108 found in 28 locations.
        Hudcek - 46 found in 16 locations.
        Hudecek - 167 found 65 locations.
        Hudecz - 7 found in 5 locations.
        Hudec - 3318 found in 587 locations.
        From this you can see there are a variety of spellings. If yours is Hudek
        then it is one of the lesser used spellings.
        Kodesch - 4 found in 2 locations
        Hodesch - 0
        Holisch - 12 found in 7 locations
        Kosesch given as an alternative.
        Szonoga - 0
        Sonoga - 36 listings in 14 locations.
        Gurko - 1 found in 1 location.
        Gurka - 98 found in 28 locations.
        Since in 1995 there was only one person with the spelling Gurko I would
        conclude that somewhere along the way the "a" got changed to an "o".
        In my own name in Slovakia it is spelled Mojcher, but originally there and
        in the USA it is Mojher. I found in the records how and when the "c" got
        added. So things do happen to names.
        If there is a "z" associated with an "s" or a "c" you can pretty well
        understand that it was a Hungarian form of the name. During the
        Magyarization period Hungarian spellings were forced upon people. Look at
        Hudecz and Hudec, 7 vs 3318. More than likely many of those families dropped
        the "z". As far as I know there is not a formal movement to change the
        Hungarian spellings back to the Slovak spellings. Since the Hungarian
        spellings were forced on people to begin with it should not be a surprise
        they would change it back to the original. A more interesting answer would
        be "Why did they keep the Hungarian spelling?"

        From: Tom Geiss
        Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 11:16 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [S-R] Name Changes

        When looking through LDS micofilm, I run into HUDEK ,HUDECK KODESCH
        HODESCH??
        Then ,when I go to Slovak White Pages, the only ones that give me any
        matches or info are HUDEK and KODESCH.
        Also I found SZONOGA, and got no help from the white pages until I dropped
        the Z and just wrote it SONOGA.
        Is there some movement in Slovakia to get rid of all Hungarian spellings??

        Also, my ancestors name was GURKO. White pages give me nothing on GURKO,
        but several addresses of GURKA. Are these two the same name with different
        spellings?
        Tom

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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      • Tom Geiss
        Bill, As I ve stated, I HAVE IN MY POSSESSION, I m looking at it right now, the MARRIAGE DOCUMENT of JOZSEF GURKO, married in Brezovica (Roman Catholic),
        Message 3 of 13 , Sep 6, 2009
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          Bill,
          As I've stated, I HAVE IN MY POSSESSION, I'm looking at it right now, the MARRIAGE DOCUMENT of JOZSEF GURKO, married in Brezovica (Roman Catholic), that states that he was "MESTO NARODENIA" 27 ROKOV, SPISSKA NOVA VES (IGLO). I just received this last spring. His wife, Terezia Guminszki was SL'ACTICNA. (hardly nomadic).
          And Jozsef's occupation is listed as VEREJNY NOTAR. (I believe that's "Public Notary".
          Also Jozsef's father was supposed to be in a titled family, but, since he was a younger son, he did not inherit a title. That means that they were in Brezovica at least since 1893.
          This past June , Vladi Linder took closeups of their grave. I'm looking at the photo right now JOZEF GURKO 1866- 1946, TEREZIA GURKOVA 1875- 1954.
          I cannot get any more from Anna Mikova, since I understand that she has serious health problems, and is unable to care for herself any more???? She lost her husband a year ago; and her son had to go to Prague to find work.
          I know that if she could have, she would have talked to Vladi when he was there this June.
          And my friend in Spisska Nova Ves isn't in much better shape. If she could have, she would have been to the Parish, and Civic records in Spisska Nova Ves, . But she's 83, with severe osteoporosis and coxartrosis, can't get around without help.
          I've written to people in SNV and surrounding towns and villages who have surnames connected to the Gurko Family; written to them in my broken Slovak, with the help of a dictionary. Received a couple of E-mails, but nothing that led to my family cousins.
          Been an interesting 3 years, and I've sure learned a lot about Eastern Europe
          Tom
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Bill Tarkulich
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 7:17 PM
          Subject: RE: [S-R] Name Changes GURKO


          Tom,
          Documentation mistakes still cannot be discounted. Nobody was looking for
          "positive ID" until the 1960s, especially in Czechoslovakia.

          So you got info that GURKO/GURKA did exist in the village. My "hunch" and
          it is just that is that GURKO maybe a Rusyn name with roots in the East of
          present-day Slovakia. GURKA may be a Magyar name with roots in present-day
          Hungary.

          I would want to know from Anna Mikova:
          1. What years did these family live there?
          2. What religion were they?
          3. Has someone checked the cemetery? Are they buried there.

          It's possible they were "nomadic", or at least, had all their BMDs
          consummated elsewhere.

          RUZENA ALZBETA, AND TEREZIA - these are interesting given names. Middle
          name is Slovak, the other two are Czech. What religion were they baptized?

          Have you had anyone go to the SNV town offices and look for BMD records?
          Privacy laws apply of course. I'd be interested in records from 1895
          forward.

          What year did GURKO name start showing up in the records, where, and what
          was the birth year of that GURKO?

          There are other less "clean" reasons for all of this. Rape. Adoption.
          Death. War. Name gets changed later. Illegitimate birth. These are hugely
          difficult to figure out.
          For example, My grandmother's sister went to Ukraine to work, had an
          illegitimate son, returned to the village, married later and had more
          children. The son had the blood father's surname. Later, he detested that
          name so much, he legally changed his surname to something else. I never
          would have uncovered that without his daughter's testimony.

          I would study the period around World War One carefully.
          Build a timeline, not a pedigree, and try to fill in the events.

          1866 - JOZSEF GURKO born

          1884-1892 Of course conscription from 18 to 22 was expected.

          1893 - Jozef Gurko married. The archives looked this info up for you? You
          can do it yourself at the FHC. Pull the 1893 film of the ORIGINAL DOCUMENT,
          it will state their village of origin.

          1893 - 1903 - Ruzena's parents were having kids (implied). 4 kids @ 2 years
          each +25%.

          1914-1918 WW1
          1918 - Most landowners flee the country but continue to own the land.

          1936 - Anna Mickova born
          1940s - Ruzena was teaching -so she had to be late 30s to late 40s in age.
          1950s - Estate property was transferred to state control.

          1960s - I would expect Ruzena and siblings to have died around this time

          Look at this, he married right out of the military. Where was he married?
          You cannot discount that the MIKOS was not a nomadic family.

          Another idea is to inspect property records from the village(s) in question.
          If the family was affluent, they undoubtedly would hold property and there
          would be a record of this. This can be done online or via Peter Nagy.
          http://www.centroconsult.sk/genealogy/land.html

          Good Luck,

          Regard,

          Bill

          -----Original Message-----
          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Tom Geiss
          Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 6:21 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] Name Changes

          Thanks , Bill, for your input. I do know the ancestral villages. I
          guess this group is getting tired of hearing my story, but I will bore you
          all once more with the details.
          First of all , here is what I learned a few years ago, from reports
          of my grandmother, aunts, uncles (all since deceased). My grandma's
          family, (which was Austrian, and spoke German) had a large farm in Iglo ,
          Hungary, (after 1918 it became Spisska Nova Ves). They were prosperous for
          the times, had many servants and workers.
          The farm was confiscated during WW1, and family living there were all
          killed.
          Only those who left the farm prior to the war were alive.

          (The descendents of these I've been seeking the last three years, with
          the help of my AMERICAN friend, who lives in SNV. Has lived there since
          1939, when , at 13 , she got stuck there by the war.)
          I have found most of my grandma's siblings, on LDS microfilms, which
          are authentic, (including illegible handwriting). Also I have much of my
          grandma's PEDIGREE, which I paid the Levoca Archives to do, all the way
          back to 1764. (they found as much as my money would allow).
          Then a year and a half ago I heard about a letter written to grandma in
          the thirties, from BREZOVICA NAD TORYSA. I E-mailed this info to my
          friend in SNV, and she called her friend ,Anna Mikova, who lives there, and
          was told that the GURKOS (Gurkas??) used to live there , but they're all
          gone. In subsequent weeks Anna talked to older people, whose parents and
          grandparents used to work for the Gurkas.

          I obtained, from the Presov Archives the marriage docoment of my
          grandmother's brother JOZSEF GURKO, and his wife Terezia Guminszki, for
          verification that he was the same one born in Spisska Nova Ves. Of
          course I'm taking the archives' word for this, since this is NOT AN ORIGINAL
          DOCUMENT?? I believe that there are words in Slovak at the bottom, that
          (I think ) state this.
          They had a son, killed in WW1, and three daughters, RUZENA ALZBETA, AND
          TEREZIA.
          Their house is the one that is NO LONGER THERE. Vladi was there last
          June.
          The three daughters are supposed to have gone to Kosice.
          Their daughter ,Ruzena, was Anna Mikova,s teacher in school (5th to 9th
          grades), in the 1940's. So , Michael, this would be a different
          Ruzena, since you say she died in 1930. Anna Mikova went to her
          funeral, (and Anna wasn't born until 1936).
          There is so much more, but this is getting long.
          Jozef Gurko was born in 1866, got married in 1893.

          All I have to do is find out where my AUSTRIAN family got the Slavik
          name of GURKO ??
          Thanks for all the help so far. Tom
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Michael Mojher
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 2:40 PM
          Subject: Re: [S-R] Name Changes

          Tom,
          I was up late working on another project. I had some time to kill during
          it and plugged in your surnames while waiting.
          That one Gurko in the 1995 Census was located in Castkov in the district
          of Senica. If there was only one Gurko in 1995 it could well be if they died
          there are no longer any left in Slovakia. I could understand them hiding
          prior to 1993, but after that they would have no reason to fear being
          "Sl'achtic".
          Of all things, as I write my translators from my first two trips to
          Slovakia are visiting me. They are from Kosice. If you like I will see if
          they will search out your relatives grave. Send all the information you have
          on it.
          I did find this -
          Last and first name Age Place of burial Date of funeral includes

          Gurkó István 0 Kosice - Verejný cintorín 02.05.1896
          Gurko Mihály 0 Kosice - Verejný cintorín 24.06.1898
          Gurková Ruzena 0 Kosice - Verejný cintorín 30.09.1930
          Gurková Anna 82 Kosice - Verejný cintorín - Kolumbárium 00.00.1996

          Link - http://www.cemetery.sk/english/?

          I'm not sure why the first three has an age of "0". Possibly they did die
          at or close to birth and no age was given.
          I read where the Rozalia cemetery is very large and finding grave sites
          can be difficult. At least you know Anna is in the Kolumbarium, which should
          make it easier to find her. I can ask Maros to take a photograph of it for
          you.

          From: Tom Geiss
          Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 11:24 AM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] Name Changes

          Thanks, Mike, for looking that up. I will print taat and save it.
          I see you sent it at 1.00 AM. You were working overtime.
          In the case of the GURKO name, it's the other way around though. I found
          my grandma's GURKO family, on microfilm, but can't find anybody with that
          name today.
          They were kicked out of one town at the time of WW1, or before. And kicked
          out of another one after WW2, probably by the communists.
          According to one marriage record , some were "SL'ACHTIC " (Aristocratic)
          in other words, Too High Class for their own good.
          When Vladi went to Brezovica this summer to get me a photo of the family
          house (or ruins thereof) he was shown a sign that read, " Here is where the
          Gurko family house was "
          I'm suspecting that if there are any survivors left, that they are HIDING
          , have probably changed their name, and don't want to be found. I know of
          one who was buried in Kosice, in ROSALIA CEMETERY?? not too many years ago.
          Someday I'll get someone to go there and find out how her last name is
          spelled.
          Tom
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Michael Mojher
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 1:43 AM
          Subject: Re: [S-R] Name Changes

          Tom,
          I used the 1995 Slovakia Census database to search the spellings of the
          surnames to listed in your message.
          Hudeck 0 hits, a list of alternatives was given.
          Hudek - 108 found in 28 locations.
          Hudcek - 46 found in 16 locations.
          Hudecek - 167 found 65 locations.
          Hudecz - 7 found in 5 locations.
          Hudec - 3318 found in 587 locations.
          From this you can see there are a variety of spellings. If yours is Hudek
          then it is one of the lesser used spellings.
          Kodesch - 4 found in 2 locations
          Hodesch - 0
          Holisch - 12 found in 7 locations
          Kosesch given as an alternative.
          Szonoga - 0
          Sonoga - 36 listings in 14 locations.
          Gurko - 1 found in 1 location.
          Gurka - 98 found in 28 locations.
          Since in 1995 there was only one person with the spelling Gurko I would
          conclude that somewhere along the way the "a" got changed to an "o".
          In my own name in Slovakia it is spelled Mojcher, but originally there and
          in the USA it is Mojher. I found in the records how and when the "c" got
          added. So things do happen to names.
          If there is a "z" associated with an "s" or a "c" you can pretty well
          understand that it was a Hungarian form of the name. During the
          Magyarization period Hungarian spellings were forced upon people. Look at
          Hudecz and Hudec, 7 vs 3318. More than likely many of those families dropped
          the "z". As far as I know there is not a formal movement to change the
          Hungarian spellings back to the Slovak spellings. Since the Hungarian
          spellings were forced on people to begin with it should not be a surprise
          they would change it back to the original. A more interesting answer would
          be "Why did they keep the Hungarian spelling?"

          From: Tom Geiss
          Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 11:16 AM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [S-R] Name Changes

          When looking through LDS micofilm, I run into HUDEK ,HUDECK KODESCH
          HODESCH??
          Then ,when I go to Slovak White Pages, the only ones that give me any
          matches or info are HUDEK and KODESCH.
          Also I found SZONOGA, and got no help from the white pages until I dropped
          the Z and just wrote it SONOGA.
          Is there some movement in Slovakia to get rid of all Hungarian spellings??

          Also, my ancestors name was GURKO. White pages give me nothing on GURKO,
          but several addresses of GURKA. Are these two the same name with different
          spellings?
          Tom

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        • Tom Geiss
          And, while I think of it, I have the page of a letter written to my grandmother in the 1930 s from Brezovica Nad Torysa, IN GERMAN, which pretty much proves
          Message 4 of 13 , Sep 6, 2009
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            And, while I think of it, I have the page of a letter written to my grandmother in the 1930's from Brezovica Nad Torysa, IN GERMAN, which pretty much proves the Austria connection.
            Tom
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Tom Geiss
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 6:21 PM
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Name Changes


            Oh yes, and I've pretty immersed myself in Slovak history the last three years, how Hungary controlled things for hundreds of years. I know the story of JANOSIK all about Milan Rastislav Stefanic. who died in a plane crash that some say was no accident?? I know about the Cleveland agreement, and the Pittsburg Agreement, that led to the establishment of Czechoslovakia, in which some say the "Czechs got the cream; Slovaks got skim milk". Then there was the "First Slovak Republic' with Father Josef Tiso as president. (all with the blessing of Adolf Hitler) (from 1939 to 1945). This is all argued about on Slovak television even today.
            And I'm told that even now sometimes Hungarians doo mean things like cause a disturbance at a ball game. or burn a Slovak flag in Budapest..
            Tom
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Tom Geiss
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:20 PM
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Name Changes

            Thanks , Bill, for your input. I do know the ancestral villages. I guess this group is getting tired of hearing my story, but I will bore you all once more with the details.
            First of all , here is what I learned a few years ago, from reports of my grandmother, aunts, uncles (all since deceased). My grandma's family, (which was Austrian, and spoke German) had a large farm in Iglo , Hungary, (after 1918 it became Spisska Nova Ves). They were prosperous for the times, had many servants and workers.
            The farm was confiscated during WW1, and family living there were all killed.
            Only those who left the farm prior to the war were alive.

            (The descendents of these I've been seeking the last three years, with the help of my AMERICAN friend, who lives in SNV. Has lived there since 1939, when , at 13 , she got stuck there by the war.)
            I have found most of my grandma's siblings, on LDS microfilms, which are authentic, (including illegible handwriting). Also I have much of my grandma's PEDIGREE, which I paid the Levoca Archives to do, all the way back to 1764. (they found as much as my money would allow).
            Then a year and a half ago I heard about a letter written to grandma in the thirties, from BREZOVICA NAD TORYSA. I E-mailed this info to my friend in SNV, and she called her friend ,Anna Mikova, who lives there, and was told that the GURKOS (Gurkas??) used to live there , but they're all gone. In subsequent weeks Anna talked to older people, whose parents and grandparents used to work for the Gurkas.

            I obtained, from the Presov Archives the marriage docoment of my grandmother's brother JOZSEF GURKO, and his wife Terezia Guminszki, for verification that he was the same one born in Spisska Nova Ves. Of course I'm taking the archives' word for this, since this is NOT AN ORIGINAL DOCUMENT?? I believe that there are words in Slovak at the bottom, that (I think ) state this.
            They had a son, killed in WW1, and three daughters, RUZENA ALZBETA, AND TEREZIA.
            Their house is the one that is NO LONGER THERE. Vladi was there last June.
            The three daughters are supposed to have gone to Kosice.
            Their daughter ,Ruzena, was Anna Mikova,s teacher in school (5th to 9th grades), in the 1940's. So , Michael, this would be a different Ruzena, since you say she died in 1930. Anna Mikova went to her funeral, (and Anna wasn't born until 1936).
            There is so much more, but this is getting long.
            Jozef Gurko was born in 1866, got married in 1893.

            All I have to do is find out where my AUSTRIAN family got the Slavik name of GURKO ??
            Thanks for all the help so far. Tom
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Michael Mojher
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 2:40 PM
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Name Changes

            Tom,
            I was up late working on another project. I had some time to kill during it and plugged in your surnames while waiting.
            That one Gurko in the 1995 Census was located in Castkov in the district of Senica. If there was only one Gurko in 1995 it could well be if they died there are no longer any left in Slovakia. I could understand them hiding prior to 1993, but after that they would have no reason to fear being "Sl'achtic".
            Of all things, as I write my translators from my first two trips to Slovakia are visiting me. They are from Kosice. If you like I will see if they will search out your relatives grave. Send all the information you have on it.
            I did find this -
            Last and first name Age Place of burial Date of funeral includes

            Gurkó István 0 Kosice - Verejný cintorín 02.05.1896
            Gurko Mihály 0 Kosice - Verejný cintorín 24.06.1898
            Gurková Ruzena 0 Kosice - Verejný cintorín 30.09.1930
            Gurková Anna 82 Kosice - Verejný cintorín - Kolumbárium 00.00.1996

            Link - http://www.cemetery.sk/english/?

            I'm not sure why the first three has an age of "0". Possibly they did die at or close to birth and no age was given.
            I read where the Rozalia cemetery is very large and finding grave sites can be difficult. At least you know Anna is in the Kolumbarium, which should make it easier to find her. I can ask Maros to take a photograph of it for you.

            From: Tom Geiss
            Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 11:24 AM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Name Changes

            Thanks, Mike, for looking that up. I will print taat and save it.
            I see you sent it at 1.00 AM. You were working overtime.
            In the case of the GURKO name, it's the other way around though. I found my grandma's GURKO family, on microfilm, but can't find anybody with that name today.
            They were kicked out of one town at the time of WW1, or before. And kicked out of another one after WW2, probably by the communists.
            According to one marriage record , some were "SL'ACHTIC " (Aristocratic) in other words, Too High Class for their own good.
            When Vladi went to Brezovica this summer to get me a photo of the family house (or ruins thereof) he was shown a sign that read, " Here is where the Gurko family house was "
            I'm suspecting that if there are any survivors left, that they are HIDING , have probably changed their name, and don't want to be found. I know of one who was buried in Kosice, in ROSALIA CEMETERY?? not too many years ago. Someday I'll get someone to go there and find out how her last name is spelled.
            Tom
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Michael Mojher
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 1:43 AM
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Name Changes

            Tom,
            I used the 1995 Slovakia Census database to search the spellings of the surnames to listed in your message.
            Hudeck 0 hits, a list of alternatives was given.
            Hudek - 108 found in 28 locations.
            Hudcek - 46 found in 16 locations.
            Hudecek - 167 found 65 locations.
            Hudecz - 7 found in 5 locations.
            Hudec - 3318 found in 587 locations.
            From this you can see there are a variety of spellings. If yours is Hudek then it is one of the lesser used spellings.
            Kodesch - 4 found in 2 locations
            Hodesch - 0
            Holisch - 12 found in 7 locations
            Kosesch given as an alternative.
            Szonoga - 0
            Sonoga - 36 listings in 14 locations.
            Gurko - 1 found in 1 location.
            Gurka - 98 found in 28 locations.
            Since in 1995 there was only one person with the spelling Gurko I would conclude that somewhere along the way the "a" got changed to an "o".
            In my own name in Slovakia it is spelled Mojcher, but originally there and in the USA it is Mojher. I found in the records how and when the "c" got added. So things do happen to names.
            If there is a "z" associated with an "s" or a "c" you can pretty well understand that it was a Hungarian form of the name. During the Magyarization period Hungarian spellings were forced upon people. Look at Hudecz and Hudec, 7 vs 3318. More than likely many of those families dropped the "z". As far as I know there is not a formal movement to change the Hungarian spellings back to the Slovak spellings. Since the Hungarian spellings were forced on people to begin with it should not be a surprise they would change it back to the original. A more interesting answer would be "Why did they keep the Hungarian spelling?"

            From: Tom Geiss
            Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 11:16 AM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [S-R] Name Changes

            When looking through LDS micofilm, I run into HUDEK ,HUDECK KODESCH HODESCH??
            Then ,when I go to Slovak White Pages, the only ones that give me any matches or info are HUDEK and KODESCH.
            Also I found SZONOGA, and got no help from the white pages until I dropped the Z and just wrote it SONOGA.
            Is there some movement in Slovakia to get rid of all Hungarian spellings??

            Also, my ancestors name was GURKO. White pages give me nothing on GURKO, but several addresses of GURKA. Are these two the same name with different spellings?
            Tom

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