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Re: [S-R] Names: Man's name change Vaclav to James

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  • Ben Sorensen
    Hey there Mike et al... Just a quick correction. Joska is an objective case of the name.  While I am avoiding walking down the magical path of Slovak
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 3, 2009
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      Hey there Mike et al...
      Just a quick correction. "Joska" is an objective case of the name.  While I am avoiding walking down the magical path of Slovak grammar, the nominative- and therefore the good case to use in English, is Josko. To je Josko- This is Josko.  To je pre Joska- This is for Josko.
      Just to be a little help...
      Ben

      --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:


      From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Names: Man's name change Vaclav to James
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 3:13 PM


       



      Tom,
      Joska is the diminutive of Jozsef. The equivalent to our Joey.

      From: Tom Geiss
      Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:39 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Names: Man's name change Vaclav to James

      Just like my grand mother's brother's name is JOZSEF. and my American relatives hear it pronounced, then write his name JOSKA. The evolution of names.
      Tom
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Michael Mojher
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:03 PM
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Names: Man's name change Vaclav to James

      Joe,
      In the Rootsweb's English Versions of Foreign Names Jakub's English version is Jacob. Under James Czech and Slovak blocks are left blank, indicating that there is no equivalent name for James in those languages.

      From: Armata, Joseph R
      Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:38 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
      Subject: RE: [S-R] Names: Man's name change Vaclav to James

      James is Jakub in Czech, coming from Hebrew meaning to take by the heel.

      Vaclav is a native Slavic name, coming from roots meaning greater glory.

      So the names are completely unrelated. Your Vaclav probably just picked the name James to go by. Think of all the Chinese university students who come to America today and pick an arbitrary English name to use.

      Joe

      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:SLOVAK-
      > ROOTS@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Janet Kozlay
      > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:25 AM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
      > Subject: RE: [S-R] Names: Man's name change Vaclav to James
      >
      >
      >
      > My argument would have held more weight had I found that
      > Vaclav/Wenceslaus
      > and James had the same feast day, but, alas, they do not.
      >
      > On the other hand, going back further, the name James has its origins
      > in the
      > Hebrew name Jakov/Jaakov. Could Jakov and Vaclav in turn be related?
      >
      > How are the names of Jesus' disciples named in a Czech Bible?
      >
      > Janet
      >

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    • Ron Matviyak
      Just a quick addition to Ben s comment to recognize a potential point of confusion: Joschka is also a German first name, diminutive (as in Johnny), but does
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 3, 2009
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        Just a quick addition to Ben's comment to recognize a potential point of confusion: Joschka is also a German first name, diminutive (as in Johnny), but does not change case as in the Slovak Joska. Of course spelling may vary by personal choice, adding to the confusion.

        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hey there Mike et al...
        > Just a quick correction. "Joska" is an objective case of the name. While I am avoiding walking down the magical path of Slovak grammar, the nominative- and therefore the good case to use in English, is Josko. To je Josko- This is Josko. To je pre Joska- This is for Josko.
        > Just to be a little help...
        > Ben
        >
        > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Names: Man's name change Vaclav to James
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 3:13 PM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Tom,
        > Joska is the diminutive of Jozsef. The equivalent to our Joey.
        >
        > From: Tom Geiss
        > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:39 AM
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Names: Man's name change Vaclav to James
        >
        > Just like my grand mother's brother's name is JOZSEF. and my American relatives hear it pronounced, then write his name JOSKA. The evolution of names.
        > Tom
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Michael Mojher
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
        > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:03 PM
        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Names: Man's name change Vaclav to James
        >
        > Joe,
        > In the Rootsweb's English Versions of Foreign Names Jakub's English version is Jacob. Under James Czech and Slovak blocks are left blank, indicating that there is no equivalent name for James in those languages.
        >
        > From: Armata, Joseph R
        > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:38 AM
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
        > Subject: RE: [S-R] Names: Man's name change Vaclav to James
        >
        > James is Jakub in Czech, coming from Hebrew meaning to take by the heel.
        >
        > Vaclav is a native Slavic name, coming from roots meaning greater glory.
        >
        > So the names are completely unrelated. Your Vaclav probably just picked the name James to go by. Think of all the Chinese university students who come to America today and pick an arbitrary English name to use.
        >
        > Joe
        >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:SLOVAK-
        > > ROOTS@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Janet Kozlay
        > > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:25 AM
        > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
        > > Subject: RE: [S-R] Names: Man's name change Vaclav to James
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > My argument would have held more weight had I found that
        > > Vaclav/Wenceslaus
        > > and James had the same feast day, but, alas, they do not.
        > >
        > > On the other hand, going back further, the name James has its origins
        > > in the
        > > Hebrew name Jakov/Jaakov. Could Jakov and Vaclav in turn be related?
        > >
        > > How are the names of Jesus' disciples named in a Czech Bible?
        > >
        > > Janet
        > >
        >
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      • charles tintera
        Names: Man s name change Vaclav to James According to the St. Procopius Church Registry my father s first name was Vaclav at birth but on every other record
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 4, 2009
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          Names: Man's name change Vaclav to James

          "According to the St. Procopius Church Registry my father's first name was
          Vaclav at birth but on every other record that I have he is named James or
          James B."



          Thank you all for your comments.



          I think that it is mostly likely that my father's name change from Vaclav to
          James was an attempt to fit in.



          Why choose James in lieu of Vaclav? Maybe James was a popular choice at
          that time (early 1900s in Chicago, Illinois) or maybe James (a single though
          extended ascending tone) just sounds better in English than Vaclav (two hard
          tones).



          Since none of his family remains alive and the records are scanty, at best,
          I recognize that there is no way to know.



          I am still pursuing the St. Procopius records to see if there is a record of
          a Roman Catholic Confirmation - perhaps he adopted "James" at that time and
          used it thereafter eventually substituting a "B" for the "V" as his middle
          initial. His name would have progressed from Vaclav to Vaclav James, to
          James (Vaclav), to James V. and finally to James B.



          Interesting to speculate, impossible to prove.



          cvt





          Charles "Chuck" Tintera





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ben Sorensen
          Hmm... As I read this, I think that there is an interesting reason- perhaps- for the middle initial becoming a B.  It is ingenious.... :-) on your ancestor s
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 4, 2009
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            Hmm... As I read this, I think that there is an interesting reason- perhaps- for the middle initial becoming a B.  It is ingenious.... :-) on your ancestor's part!
             
            In azbuka- or the Russian alphabet- the sound of V is spelled with what looks like a Latin B.  Perhaps, though it is hard to prove, he was actually using the azbuka for his middle initial instead of the Latin letter!
            Ben

            --- On Tue, 8/4/09, charles tintera <ctintera@...> wrote:


            From: charles tintera <ctintera@...>
            Subject: [S-R] Re: Names: Man's name change Vaclav to James
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 7:12 PM


             



            Names: Man's name change Vaclav to James

            "According to the St. Procopius Church Registry my father's first name was
            Vaclav at birth but on every other record that I have he is named James or
            James B."

            Thank you all for your comments.

            I think that it is mostly likely that my father's name change from Vaclav to
            James was an attempt to fit in.

            Why choose James in lieu of Vaclav? Maybe James was a popular choice at
            that time (early 1900s in Chicago, Illinois) or maybe James (a single though
            extended ascending tone) just sounds better in English than Vaclav (two hard
            tones).

            Since none of his family remains alive and the records are scanty, at best,
            I recognize that there is no way to know.

            I am still pursuing the St. Procopius records to see if there is a record of
            a Roman Catholic Confirmation - perhaps he adopted "James" at that time and
            used it thereafter eventually substituting a "B" for the "V" as his middle
            initial. His name would have progressed from Vaclav to Vaclav James, to
            James (Vaclav), to James V. and finally to James B.

            Interesting to speculate, impossible to prove.

            cvt

            Charles "Chuck" Tintera

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















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