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Re: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek

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  • Michael Mojher
    Sheila, Historically the present day Slovakia was for 900 years ruled over by Hungary. It was referred to as Upper Hungary. After WW I Czechoslovakia was
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 12, 2009
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      Sheila,
      Historically the present day Slovakia was for 900 years ruled over by Hungary. It was referred to as Upper Hungary. After WW I Czechoslovakia was created. The two territories only connection to one another was linguistically. In 1993 Slovakia finally got its independence.
      While under Hungarian rule the Slovaks kept their identity. In the late 1800's the Hungarians had a policy called Magyarization where they wanted only the Hungarian language used. This meant that Slovaks had their names entered into records with Hungarian spellings. One of the signals for a Hungarian name or word is the use of "sz' and "zs". Because they happen to be in your surnames does not mean they identified with being Hungarian. Your ancestral villages were in Slovak territory. Which would make them most likely Slovak. If you know which language they spoke that could clarify whether they were Hungarian or Slovak.
      If you recall, I did not find anyone in Slovakia with the surname Krizsek, but there was the spelling Krizek. This would lead me to believe that Krizek is the correct spelling of your surname.
      Since Szarka still exists in Slovakia in great numbers and it has a Hungarian spelling I would presume it is a Hungarian surname. If the family had lived in the Slovak territory, spoke Slovak and identified themselves as being Slovak then they would be a Hungarian-Slovak. Hungarians did live and still do live in Slovak territory.
      As for finding your Szarka family in Germany. Do a search for German Genealogical websites and approach them as you did us. They would know the ins and outs for Germany. If your family communicated with one another their might be a letter or address book that can give you that all important "where" in Germany.



      From: sheils@...
      Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:58 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek





      I have to assume that the ancestor's my family would have descended from
      where Hungarian then. My mother gave me the spelling of her granmothers
      maiden name from an obit. so I believe that to be correct. I am also aware of Szarka's that are possibly living in Germany. My mother states her Uncle Joseph Szarka married a German woman after WWII and settled in Germany to live. He has since past, but last I knew his wife was still alive. Of course that was over 15 years ago. I am fairly positive that they had children. I even met my Uncle Joseph once when he came to the states but I was very young at the time. I think he may have come over in 1979. Does anyone know of Szarka's currently living in Germany?

      Sheila





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Janet Kozlay
      In addition to Michael s information, the Hungarian spelled Szarka and Slovak spelled Sarka are both relatively common in the Slovak phone directory (168 and
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 12, 2009
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        In addition to Michael's information, the Hungarian spelled Szarka and
        Slovak spelled Sarka are both relatively common in the Slovak phone
        directory (168 and 127, respectively; also, 75 Szarkovas and 29 Sarkovas).
        They are even more common in the Hungarian phone directory-both spellings
        occur in Hungary in excess of 500 entries. To confuse the issue even
        further, if you look at the census records for 1910 and 1920, where country
        of birth and language spoken are both listed, there is no strong correlation
        between spelling and language spoken. That is, you will find Szarkas
        speaking Slovak and Sarkas speaking Hungarian. In addition, you will find
        mixed families where the husband spoke one language and the wife the other.
        In truth, many immigrants from historic Hungary were at least bilingual and
        probably most commonly spoke the language of the neighborhood in which they
        settled.



        The fact that Szarka (and Szarkova) is found more frequently than Sarka (and
        Sarkova) suggests, but does not prove, that it may have Hungarian origins.
        The name means magpie in both languages.



        If this is an important issue for you, I suggest that you find the U.S.
        census records for the family and see what language they reported using.



        In contrast, Krizsek/Krizek is quite rare in Hungary (Krizsek 7 phone
        directory entries, Krizek 1 entry).



        Janet







        _____

        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Michael Mojher
        Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 12:30 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek








        Sheila,
        Historically the present day Slovakia was for 900 years ruled over by
        Hungary. It was referred to as Upper Hungary. After WW I Czechoslovakia was
        created. The two territories only connection to one another was
        linguistically. In 1993 Slovakia finally got its independence.
        While under Hungarian rule the Slovaks kept their identity. In the late
        1800's the Hungarians had a policy called Magyarization where they wanted
        only the Hungarian language used. This meant that Slovaks had their names
        entered into records with Hungarian spellings. One of the signals for a
        Hungarian name or word is the use of "sz' and "zs". Because they happen to
        be in your surnames does not mean they identified with being Hungarian. Your
        ancestral villages were in Slovak territory. Which would make them most
        likely Slovak. If you know which language they spoke that could clarify
        whether they were Hungarian or Slovak.
        If you recall, I did not find anyone in Slovakia with the surname Krizsek,
        but there was the spelling Krizek. This would lead me to believe that Krizek
        is the correct spelling of your surname.
        Since Szarka still exists in Slovakia in great numbers and it has a
        Hungarian spelling I would presume it is a Hungarian surname. If the family
        had lived in the Slovak territory, spoke Slovak and identified themselves as
        being Slovak then they would be a Hungarian-Slovak. Hungarians did live and
        still do live in Slovak territory.
        As for finding your Szarka family in Germany. Do a search for German
        Genealogical websites and approach them as you did us. They would know the
        ins and outs for Germany. If your family communicated with one another their
        might be a letter or address book that can give you that all important
        "where" in Germany.


        From: sheils@... <mailto:sheils%40att.net>
        Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:58 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek

        I have to assume that the ancestor's my family would have descended from
        where Hungarian then. My mother gave me the spelling of her granmothers
        maiden name from an obit. so I believe that to be correct. I am also aware
        of Szarka's that are possibly living in Germany. My mother states her Uncle
        Joseph Szarka married a German woman after WWII and settled in Germany to
        live. He has since past, but last I knew his wife was still alive. Of course
        that was over 15 years ago. I am fairly positive that they had children. I
        even met my Uncle Joseph once when he came to the states but I was very
        young at the time. I think he may have come over in 1979. Does anyone know
        of Szarka's currently living in Germany?

        Sheila

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ben/Milka Sorensen
        Sarka- vírusová choroba sliviek prejavujúca sa prehlbeninami a hnednutím povrchu plodov. Sarka (En? anyone?)- a viral ailment that attacks plumbs,
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 14, 2009
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          Sarka- vírusová choroba sliviek prejavujúca sa prehlbeninami a hnednutím povrchu plodov.

          Sarka (En? anyone?)- a viral ailment that attacks plumbs, indicated by a thickening and a browning of the fruit's surface.

          I am not very good at zoology in English or Slovak, and I don't speak Hungarian, but this is just to correct that a sarka is NOT a magpie in Slovak. In Slovak, that is straka ciernozoba. Just so that no one goes looking for sarky in Slovakia- you will be doing something other than ornithology.

          It is the bane of all brewers of slivovica- and that is how I knew that translation was incorrect. :-P
          Ben



          >
          > In addition to Michael's information, the Hungarian spelled Szarka and
          > Slovak spelled Sarka are both relatively common in the Slovak phone
          > directory (168 and 127, respectively; also, 75 Szarkovas and 29 Sarkovas).
          > They are even more common in the Hungarian phone directory-both spellings
          > occur in Hungary in excess of 500 entries. To confuse the issue even
          > further, if you look at the census records for 1910 and 1920, where country
          > of birth and language spoken are both listed, there is no strong correlation
          > between spelling and language spoken. That is, you will find Szarkas
          > speaking Slovak and Sarkas speaking Hungarian. In addition, you will find
          > mixed families where the husband spoke one language and the wife the other.
          > In truth, many immigrants from historic Hungary were at least bilingual and
          > probably most commonly spoke the language of the neighborhood in which they
          > settled.
          >
          >
          >
          > The fact that Szarka (and Szarkova) is found more frequently than Sarka (and
          > Sarkova) suggests, but does not prove, that it may have Hungarian origins.
          > The name means magpie in both languages.
          >
          >
          >
          > If this is an important issue for you, I suggest that you find the U.S.
          > census records for the family and see what language they reported using.
          >
          >
          >
          > In contrast, Krizsek/Krizek is quite rare in Hungary (Krizsek 7 phone
          > directory entries, Krizek 1 entry).
          >
          >
          >
          > Janet
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
          > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 12:30 PM
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Sheila,
          > Historically the present day Slovakia was for 900 years ruled over by
          > Hungary. It was referred to as Upper Hungary. After WW I Czechoslovakia was
          > created. The two territories only connection to one another was
          > linguistically. In 1993 Slovakia finally got its independence.
          > While under Hungarian rule the Slovaks kept their identity. In the late
          > 1800's the Hungarians had a policy called Magyarization where they wanted
          > only the Hungarian language used. This meant that Slovaks had their names
          > entered into records with Hungarian spellings. One of the signals for a
          > Hungarian name or word is the use of "sz' and "zs". Because they happen to
          > be in your surnames does not mean they identified with being Hungarian. Your
          > ancestral villages were in Slovak territory. Which would make them most
          > likely Slovak. If you know which language they spoke that could clarify
          > whether they were Hungarian or Slovak.
          > If you recall, I did not find anyone in Slovakia with the surname Krizsek,
          > but there was the spelling Krizek. This would lead me to believe that Krizek
          > is the correct spelling of your surname.
          > Since Szarka still exists in Slovakia in great numbers and it has a
          > Hungarian spelling I would presume it is a Hungarian surname. If the family
          > had lived in the Slovak territory, spoke Slovak and identified themselves as
          > being Slovak then they would be a Hungarian-Slovak. Hungarians did live and
          > still do live in Slovak territory.
          > As for finding your Szarka family in Germany. Do a search for German
          > Genealogical websites and approach them as you did us. They would know the
          > ins and outs for Germany. If your family communicated with one another their
          > might be a letter or address book that can give you that all important
          > "where" in Germany.
          >
          >
          > From: sheils@... <mailto:sheils%40att.net>
          > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:58 AM
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
          >
          > I have to assume that the ancestor's my family would have descended from
          > where Hungarian then. My mother gave me the spelling of her granmothers
          > maiden name from an obit. so I believe that to be correct. I am also aware
          > of Szarka's that are possibly living in Germany. My mother states her Uncle
          > Joseph Szarka married a German woman after WWII and settled in Germany to
          > live. He has since past, but last I knew his wife was still alive. Of course
          > that was over 15 years ago. I am fairly positive that they had children. I
          > even met my Uncle Joseph once when he came to the states but I was very
          > young at the time. I think he may have come over in 1979. Does anyone know
          > of Szarka's currently living in Germany?
          >
          > Sheila
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Ben Sorensen
          I just read this again, and whilst writing a friend a recipe and responding to this, I told him to wait for the froth to begin pitting, and wrote about the
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 14, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            I just read this again, and whilst writing a friend a recipe and responding to this, I told him to wait for the froth to begin pitting, and wrote about the thickening of the plumb skin.
             
            So, my correction- the plumb gets pitted, not thickened.
            I am home alone with a four year old. Sorry all. :-D
            Ben

            --- On Sun, 6/14/09, Ben/Milka Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:


            From: Ben/Milka Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 2:12 PM








            Sarka- vírusová choroba sliviek prejavujúca sa prehlbeninami a hnednutím povrchu plodov.

            Sarka (En? anyone?)- a viral ailment that attacks plumbs, indicated by a thickening and a browning of the fruit's surface.

            I am not very good at zoology in English or Slovak, and I don't speak Hungarian, but this is just to correct that a sarka is NOT a magpie in Slovak. In Slovak, that is straka ciernozoba. Just so that no one goes looking for sarky in Slovakia- you will be doing something other than ornithology.

            It is the bane of all brewers of slivovica- and that is how I knew that translation was incorrect. :-P
            Ben

            >
            > In addition to Michael's information, the Hungarian spelled Szarka and
            > Slovak spelled Sarka are both relatively common in the Slovak phone
            > directory (168 and 127, respectively; also, 75 Szarkovas and 29 Sarkovas).
            > They are even more common in the Hungarian phone directory-both spellings
            > occur in Hungary in excess of 500 entries. To confuse the issue even
            > further, if you look at the census records for 1910 and 1920, where country
            > of birth and language spoken are both listed, there is no strong correlation
            > between spelling and language spoken. That is, you will find Szarkas
            > speaking Slovak and Sarkas speaking Hungarian. In addition, you will find
            > mixed families where the husband spoke one language and the wife the other.
            > In truth, many immigrants from historic Hungary were at least bilingual and
            > probably most commonly spoke the language of the neighborhood in which they
            > settled.
            >
            >
            >
            > The fact that Szarka (and Szarkova) is found more frequently than Sarka (and
            > Sarkova) suggests, but does not prove, that it may have Hungarian origins.
            > The name means magpie in both languages.
            >
            >
            >
            > If this is an important issue for you, I suggest that you find the U.S.
            > census records for the family and see what language they reported using.
            >
            >
            >
            > In contrast, Krizsek/Krizek is quite rare in Hungary (Krizsek 7 phone
            > directory entries, Krizek 1 entry).
            >
            >
            >
            > Janet
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > _____
            >
            > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com] On
            > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
            > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 12:30 PM
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
            > Subject: Re: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Sheila,
            > Historically the present day Slovakia was for 900 years ruled over by
            > Hungary. It was referred to as Upper Hungary. After WW I Czechoslovakia was
            > created. The two territories only connection to one another was
            > linguistically. In 1993 Slovakia finally got its independence.
            > While under Hungarian rule the Slovaks kept their identity. In the late
            > 1800's the Hungarians had a policy called Magyarization where they wanted
            > only the Hungarian language used. This meant that Slovaks had their names
            > entered into records with Hungarian spellings. One of the signals for a
            > Hungarian name or word is the use of "sz' and "zs". Because they happen to
            > be in your surnames does not mean they identified with being Hungarian. Your
            > ancestral villages were in Slovak territory. Which would make them most
            > likely Slovak. If you know which language they spoke that could clarify
            > whether they were Hungarian or Slovak.
            > If you recall, I did not find anyone in Slovakia with the surname Krizsek,
            > but there was the spelling Krizek. This would lead me to believe that Krizek
            > is the correct spelling of your surname.
            > Since Szarka still exists in Slovakia in great numbers and it has a
            > Hungarian spelling I would presume it is a Hungarian surname. If the family
            > had lived in the Slovak territory, spoke Slovak and identified themselves as
            > being Slovak then they would be a Hungarian-Slovak. Hungarians did live and
            > still do live in Slovak territory.
            > As for finding your Szarka family in Germany. Do a search for German
            > Genealogical websites and approach them as you did us. They would know the
            > ins and outs for Germany. If your family communicated with one another their
            > might be a letter or address book that can give you that all important
            > "where" in Germany.
            >
            >
            > From: sheils@... <mailto:sheils% 40att.net>
            > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:58 AM
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK- ROOTS%40yahoogro ups.com> yahoogroups. com
            > Subject: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
            >
            > I have to assume that the ancestor's my family would have descended from
            > where Hungarian then. My mother gave me the spelling of her granmothers
            > maiden name from an obit. so I believe that to be correct. I am also aware
            > of Szarka's that are possibly living in Germany. My mother states her Uncle
            > Joseph Szarka married a German woman after WWII and settled in Germany to
            > live. He has since past, but last I knew his wife was still alive. Of course
            > that was over 15 years ago. I am fairly positive that they had children. I
            > even met my Uncle Joseph once when he came to the states but I was very
            > young at the time. I think he may have come over in 1979. Does anyone know
            > of Szarka's currently living in Germany?
            >
            > Sheila
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >



















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Janet Kozlay
            I swear I didn t just make it up out of thin air when I stated that sarka meant magpie in Slovak. However, I must confess that I cannot now find the reference.
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 14, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              I swear I didn't just make it up out of thin air when I stated that sarka
              meant magpie in Slovak. However, I must confess that I cannot now find the
              reference. On the other hand, there are quite a few sites that state that
              �arka means magpie in Lithuanian-not that that is any help. Indeed, straka
              seems to be the Slovak word for magpie. I apologize for my error.



              Janet







              _____

              From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Ben/Milka Sorensen
              Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 1:12 PM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek








              Sarka- v�rusov� choroba sliviek prejavuj�ca sa prehlbeninami a hnednut�m
              povrchu plodov.

              Sarka (En? anyone?)- a viral ailment that attacks plumbs, indicated by a
              thickening and a browning of the fruit's surface.

              I am not very good at zoology in English or Slovak, and I don't speak
              Hungarian, but this is just to correct that a sarka is NOT a magpie in
              Slovak. In Slovak, that is straka ciernozoba. Just so that no one goes
              looking for sarky in Slovakia- you will be doing something other than
              ornithology.

              It is the bane of all brewers of slivovica- and that is how I knew that
              translation was incorrect. :-P
              Ben

              >
              > In addition to Michael's information, the Hungarian spelled Szarka and
              > Slovak spelled Sarka are both relatively common in the Slovak phone
              > directory (168 and 127, respectively; also, 75 Szarkovas and 29 Sarkovas).
              > They are even more common in the Hungarian phone directory-both spellings
              > occur in Hungary in excess of 500 entries. To confuse the issue even
              > further, if you look at the census records for 1910 and 1920, where
              country
              > of birth and language spoken are both listed, there is no strong
              correlation
              > between spelling and language spoken. That is, you will find Szarkas
              > speaking Slovak and Sarkas speaking Hungarian. In addition, you will find
              > mixed families where the husband spoke one language and the wife the
              other.
              > In truth, many immigrants from historic Hungary were at least bilingual
              and
              > probably most commonly spoke the language of the neighborhood in which
              they
              > settled.
              >
              >
              >
              > The fact that Szarka (and Szarkova) is found more frequently than Sarka
              (and
              > Sarkova) suggests, but does not prove, that it may have Hungarian origins.
              > The name means magpie in both languages.
              >
              >
              >
              > If this is an important issue for you, I suggest that you find the U.S.
              > census records for the family and see what language they reported using.
              >
              >
              >
              > In contrast, Krizsek/Krizek is quite rare in Hungary (Krizsek 7 phone
              > directory entries, Krizek 1 entry).
              >
              >
              >
              > Janet
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
              yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@
              <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On
              > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
              > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 12:30 PM
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Sheila,
              > Historically the present day Slovakia was for 900 years ruled over by
              > Hungary. It was referred to as Upper Hungary. After WW I Czechoslovakia
              was
              > created. The two territories only connection to one another was
              > linguistically. In 1993 Slovakia finally got its independence.
              > While under Hungarian rule the Slovaks kept their identity. In the late
              > 1800's the Hungarians had a policy called Magyarization where they wanted
              > only the Hungarian language used. This meant that Slovaks had their names
              > entered into records with Hungarian spellings. One of the signals for a
              > Hungarian name or word is the use of "sz' and "zs". Because they happen to
              > be in your surnames does not mean they identified with being Hungarian.
              Your
              > ancestral villages were in Slovak territory. Which would make them most
              > likely Slovak. If you know which language they spoke that could clarify
              > whether they were Hungarian or Slovak.
              > If you recall, I did not find anyone in Slovakia with the surname Krizsek,
              > but there was the spelling Krizek. This would lead me to believe that
              Krizek
              > is the correct spelling of your surname.
              > Since Szarka still exists in Slovakia in great numbers and it has a
              > Hungarian spelling I would presume it is a Hungarian surname. If the
              family
              > had lived in the Slovak territory, spoke Slovak and identified themselves
              as
              > being Slovak then they would be a Hungarian-Slovak. Hungarians did live
              and
              > still do live in Slovak territory.
              > As for finding your Szarka family in Germany. Do a search for German
              > Genealogical websites and approach them as you did us. They would know the
              > ins and outs for Germany. If your family communicated with one another
              their
              > might be a letter or address book that can give you that all important
              > "where" in Germany.
              >
              >
              > From: sheils@... <mailto:sheils%40att.net>
              > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:58 AM
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
              >
              > I have to assume that the ancestor's my family would have descended from
              > where Hungarian then. My mother gave me the spelling of her granmothers
              > maiden name from an obit. so I believe that to be correct. I am also aware
              > of Szarka's that are possibly living in Germany. My mother states her
              Uncle
              > Joseph Szarka married a German woman after WWII and settled in Germany to
              > live. He has since past, but last I knew his wife was still alive. Of
              course
              > that was over 15 years ago. I am fairly positive that they had children. I
              > even met my Uncle Joseph once when he came to the states but I was very
              > young at the time. I think he may have come over in 1979. Does anyone know
              > of Szarka's currently living in Germany?
              >
              > Sheila
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ben Sorensen
              Dear Janet, I doubt that you could make that up in thin air. I am almost certain that the source you had was confused between two very similar- and even more
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 14, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Dear Janet,
                I doubt that you could make that up in thin air. I am almost certain that the source you had was confused between two very similar- and even more so if you are not speaking Slovak every day!- spellings: SARKA and STRAKA. I am sure you know that the quality of bilingual dictionaries in SK-EN are very low compared to German/Spanish/Italian or even thier Czech counterparts. It is a problem, and people end up saying things in one language or the other because of it that confuse or misguide us.

                I would like to point out how many SLOVAK books are on the market on AbeBooks, and they are listed as Slovenian/Croatian/LATVIAN. This is a renouned book-seller, and yet the mistake is RIGHT there for everyone to see- but NO ONE fixes it, because so few of us would notice it. It is NOT something to be ashamed of... and you don't need to appologize for the mistake. One person told me thier favorite Slovak saying- and it was in German. :-P There you go...

                I wonder what the word for magpie is in Hungarian- perhaps szarka? I dunno... I am still learning English- my first language- and therefore I commend your attempt to translate sarka. My previous spelling of plum proves that, and I taught English. Kazdy sa myli/everyone makes mistakes.
                Ben

                --- On Sun, 6/14/09, Janet Kozlay <kozlay@...> wrote:

                > From: Janet Kozlay <kozlay@...>
                > Subject: RE: [S-R] Szarka and Sarka
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 6:01 PM
                > I swear I didn't just make it up out
                > of thin air when I stated that sarka
                > meant magpie in Slovak. However, I must confess that I
                > cannot now find the
                > reference. On the other hand, there are quite a few sites
                > that state that
                > ¹arka means magpie in Lithuanian-not that that is any
                > help. Indeed, straka
                > seems to be the Slovak word for magpie. I apologize for my
                > error.
                >
                >
                >
                > Janet
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >   _____ 
                >
                > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                > On
                > Behalf Of Ben/Milka Sorensen
                > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 1:12 PM
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Sarka- vírusová choroba sliviek prejavujúca sa
                > prehlbeninami a hnednutím
                > povrchu plodov.
                >
                > Sarka (En? anyone?)- a viral ailment that attacks plumbs,
                > indicated by a
                > thickening and a browning of the fruit's surface.
                >
                > I am not very good at zoology in English or Slovak, and I
                > don't speak
                > Hungarian, but this is just to correct that a sarka is NOT
                > a magpie in
                > Slovak. In Slovak, that is straka ciernozoba. Just so that
                > no one goes
                > looking for sarky in Slovakia- you will be doing something
                > other than
                > ornithology.
                >
                > It is the bane of all brewers of slivovica- and that is how
                > I knew that
                > translation was incorrect. :-P
                > Ben
                >
                > >
                > > In addition to Michael's information, the Hungarian
                > spelled Szarka and
                > > Slovak spelled Sarka are both relatively common in the
                > Slovak phone
                > > directory (168 and 127, respectively; also, 75
                > Szarkovas and 29 Sarkovas).
                > > They are even more common in the Hungarian phone
                > directory-both spellings
                > > occur in Hungary in excess of 500 entries. To confuse
                > the issue even
                > > further, if you look at the census records for 1910
                > and 1920, where
                > country
                > > of birth and language spoken are both listed, there is
                > no strong
                > correlation
                > > between spelling and language spoken. That is, you
                > will find Szarkas
                > > speaking Slovak and Sarkas speaking Hungarian. In
                > addition, you will find
                > > mixed families where the husband spoke one language
                > and the wife the
                > other.
                > > In truth, many immigrants from historic Hungary were
                > at least bilingual
                > and
                > > probably most commonly spoke the language of the
                > neighborhood in which
                > they
                > > settled.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > The fact that Szarka (and Szarkova) is found more
                > frequently than Sarka
                > (and
                > > Sarkova) suggests, but does not prove, that it may
                > have Hungarian origins.
                > > The name means magpie in both languages.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > If this is an important issue for you, I suggest that
                > you find the U.S.
                > > census records for the family and see what language
                > they reported using.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > In contrast, Krizsek/Krizek is quite rare in Hungary
                > (Krizsek 7 phone
                > > directory entries, Krizek 1 entry).
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Janet
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > _____
                > >
                > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@
                > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                > yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@
                > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                > yahoogroups.com] On
                > > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 12:30 PM
                > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@
                > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                > yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Sheila,
                > > Historically the present day Slovakia was for 900
                > years ruled over by
                > > Hungary. It was referred to as Upper Hungary. After WW
                > I Czechoslovakia
                > was
                > > created. The two territories only connection to one
                > another was
                > > linguistically. In 1993 Slovakia finally got its
                > independence.
                > > While under Hungarian rule the Slovaks kept their
                > identity. In the late
                > > 1800's the Hungarians had a policy called
                > Magyarization where they wanted
                > > only the Hungarian language used. This meant that
                > Slovaks had their names
                > > entered into records with Hungarian spellings. One of
                > the signals for a
                > > Hungarian name or word is the use of "sz' and "zs".
                > Because they happen to
                > > be in your surnames does not mean they identified with
                > being Hungarian.
                > Your
                > > ancestral villages were in Slovak territory. Which
                > would make them most
                > > likely Slovak. If you know which language they spoke
                > that could clarify
                > > whether they were Hungarian or Slovak.
                > > If you recall, I did not find anyone in Slovakia with
                > the surname Krizsek,
                > > but there was the spelling Krizek. This would lead me
                > to believe that
                > Krizek
                > > is the correct spelling of your surname.
                > > Since Szarka still exists in Slovakia in great numbers
                > and it has a
                > > Hungarian spelling I would presume it is a Hungarian
                > surname. If the
                > family
                > > had lived in the Slovak territory, spoke Slovak and
                > identified themselves
                > as
                > > being Slovak then they would be a Hungarian-Slovak.
                > Hungarians did live
                > and
                > > still do live in Slovak territory.
                > > As for finding your Szarka family in Germany. Do a
                > search for German
                > > Genealogical websites and approach them as you did us.
                > They would know the
                > > ins and outs for Germany. If your family communicated
                > with one another
                > their
                > > might be a letter or address book that can give you
                > that all important
                > > "where" in Germany.
                > >
                > >
                > > From: sheils@... <mailto:sheils%40att.net>
                > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:58 AM
                > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@
                > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                > yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
                > >
                > > I have to assume that the ancestor's my family would
                > have descended from
                > > where Hungarian then. My mother gave me the spelling
                > of her granmothers
                > > maiden name from an obit. so I believe that to be
                > correct. I am also aware
                > > of Szarka's that are possibly living in Germany. My
                > mother states her
                > Uncle
                > > Joseph Szarka married a German woman after WWII and
                > settled in Germany to
                > > live. He has since past, but last I knew his wife was
                > still alive. Of
                > course
                > > that was over 15 years ago. I am fairly positive that
                > they had children. I
                > > even met my Uncle Joseph once when he came to the
                > states but I was very
                > > young at the time. I think he may have come over in
                > 1979. Does anyone know
                > > of Szarka's currently living in Germany?
                > >
                > > Sheila
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS%c2%a0
                > -or- send  blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo!
                > Groups Links
                >
                >
                >     mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
              • Nick Holcz
                Ben Plumb is level Plum is fruit It s OK cos Slovak is like Martian to me Nick
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 15, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Ben
                  Plumb is level
                  Plum is fruit
                  It's OK cos Slovak is like Martian to me

                  Nick
                • Janet Kozlay
                  Thanks, Ben. I feel better now. I do not have a good Slovak-English dictionary and have to depend on the not-so-adequate ones that are on line. I do, however,
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 15, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks, Ben. I feel better now. I do not have a good Slovak-English
                    dictionary and have to depend on the not-so-adequate ones that are on line.
                    I do, however, have a good Hungarian-English dictionary and, yes, szarka
                    means magpie. There are so many borrow words between Hungarian and Slovak
                    that I never questioned the possibility, even the probability, that they
                    were the same word. Assumptions can get you in a lot of trouble.



                    Even if we cannot say that the meanings of szarka and sarka are the same,
                    that still leaves the possibility that the NAMES are the same—that Sarka is
                    a Slovak spelling of the Hungarian name Szarka. As I mentioned before, the
                    fact that Szarkas outnumber Sarkas both in Slovakia and Hungary, and that
                    both names appear to be more common in Hungary than in Slovakia, would tend
                    to support such a hypothesis, but of course does not prove it. One would
                    need to see a single family using both spellings, which might well turn up
                    in the church records.



                    Janet



                    _____

                    From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of Ben Sorensen
                    Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 10:18 PM
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [S-R] Szarka and Sarka









                    Dear Janet,
                    I doubt that you could make that up in thin air. I am almost certain that
                    the source you had was confused between two very similar- and even more so
                    if you are not speaking Slovak every day!- spellings: SARKA and STRAKA. I am
                    sure you know that the quality of bilingual dictionaries in SK-EN are very
                    low compared to German/Spanish/Italian or even thier Czech counterparts. It
                    is a problem, and people end up saying things in one language or the other
                    because of it that confuse or misguide us.

                    I would like to point out how many SLOVAK books are on the market on
                    AbeBooks, and they are listed as Slovenian/Croatian/LATVIAN. This is a
                    renouned book-seller, and yet the mistake is RIGHT there for everyone to
                    see- but NO ONE fixes it, because so few of us would notice it. It is NOT
                    something to be ashamed of... and you don't need to appologize for the
                    mistake. One person told me thier favorite Slovak saying- and it was in
                    German. :-P There you go...

                    I wonder what the word for magpie is in Hungarian- perhaps szarka? I
                    dunno... I am still learning English- my first language- and therefore I
                    commend your attempt to translate sarka. My previous spelling of plum proves
                    that, and I taught English. Kazdy sa myli/everyone makes mistakes.
                    Ben

                    --- On Sun, 6/14/09, Janet Kozlay <kozlay@verizon.
                    <mailto:kozlay%40verizon.net> net> wrote:

                    > From: Janet Kozlay <kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay%40verizon.net> net>
                    > Subject: RE: [S-R] Szarka and Sarka
                    > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 6:01 PM
                    > I swear I didn't just make it up out
                    > of thin air when I stated that sarka
                    > meant magpie in Slovak. However, I must confess that I
                    > cannot now find the
                    > reference. On the other hand, there are quite a few sites
                    > that state that
                    > ¹arka means magpie in Lithuanian-not that that is any
                    > help. Indeed, straka
                    > seems to be the Slovak word for magpie. I apologize for my
                    > error.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Janet
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > _____
                    >
                    > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                    yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                    yahoogroups.com]
                    > On
                    > Behalf Of Ben/Milka Sorensen
                    > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 1:12 PM
                    > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Sarka- vírusová choroba sliviek prejavujúca sa
                    > prehlbeninami a hnednutím
                    > povrchu plodov.
                    >
                    > Sarka (En? anyone?)- a viral ailment that attacks plumbs,
                    > indicated by a
                    > thickening and a browning of the fruit's surface.
                    >
                    > I am not very good at zoology in English or Slovak, and I
                    > don't speak
                    > Hungarian, but this is just to correct that a sarka is NOT
                    > a magpie in
                    > Slovak. In Slovak, that is straka ciernozoba. Just so that
                    > no one goes
                    > looking for sarky in Slovakia- you will be doing something
                    > other than
                    > ornithology.
                    >
                    > It is the bane of all brewers of slivovica- and that is how
                    > I knew that
                    > translation was incorrect. :-P
                    > Ben
                    >
                    > >
                    > > In addition to Michael's information, the Hungarian
                    > spelled Szarka and
                    > > Slovak spelled Sarka are both relatively common in the
                    > Slovak phone
                    > > directory (168 and 127, respectively; also, 75
                    > Szarkovas and 29 Sarkovas).
                    > > They are even more common in the Hungarian phone
                    > directory-both spellings
                    > > occur in Hungary in excess of 500 entries. To confuse
                    > the issue even
                    > > further, if you look at the census records for 1910
                    > and 1920, where
                    > country
                    > > of birth and language spoken are both listed, there is
                    > no strong
                    > correlation
                    > > between spelling and language spoken. That is, you
                    > will find Szarkas
                    > > speaking Slovak and Sarkas speaking Hungarian. In
                    > addition, you will find
                    > > mixed families where the husband spoke one language
                    > and the wife the
                    > other.
                    > > In truth, many immigrants from historic Hungary were
                    > at least bilingual
                    > and
                    > > probably most commonly spoke the language of the
                    > neighborhood in which
                    > they
                    > > settled.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > The fact that Szarka (and Szarkova) is found more
                    > frequently than Sarka
                    > (and
                    > > Sarkova) suggests, but does not prove, that it may
                    > have Hungarian origins.
                    > > The name means magpie in both languages.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > If this is an important issue for you, I suggest that
                    > you find the U.S.
                    > > census records for the family and see what language
                    > they reported using.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > In contrast, Krizsek/Krizek is quite rare in Hungary
                    > (Krizsek 7 phone
                    > > directory entries, Krizek 1 entry).
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Janet
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > _____
                    > >
                    > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@
                    > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@
                    > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > yahoogroups.com] On
                    > > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                    > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 12:30 PM
                    > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@
                    > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Sheila,
                    > > Historically the present day Slovakia was for 900
                    > years ruled over by
                    > > Hungary. It was referred to as Upper Hungary. After WW
                    > I Czechoslovakia
                    > was
                    > > created. The two territories only connection to one
                    > another was
                    > > linguistically. In 1993 Slovakia finally got its
                    > independence.
                    > > While under Hungarian rule the Slovaks kept their
                    > identity. In the late
                    > > 1800's the Hungarians had a policy called
                    > Magyarization where they wanted
                    > > only the Hungarian language used. This meant that
                    > Slovaks had their names
                    > > entered into records with Hungarian spellings. One of
                    > the signals for a
                    > > Hungarian name or word is the use of "sz' and "zs".
                    > Because they happen to
                    > > be in your surnames does not mean they identified with
                    > being Hungarian.
                    > Your
                    > > ancestral villages were in Slovak territory. Which
                    > would make them most
                    > > likely Slovak. If you know which language they spoke
                    > that could clarify
                    > > whether they were Hungarian or Slovak.
                    > > If you recall, I did not find anyone in Slovakia with
                    > the surname Krizsek,
                    > > but there was the spelling Krizek. This would lead me
                    > to believe that
                    > Krizek
                    > > is the correct spelling of your surname.
                    > > Since Szarka still exists in Slovakia in great numbers
                    > and it has a
                    > > Hungarian spelling I would presume it is a Hungarian
                    > surname. If the
                    > family
                    > > had lived in the Slovak territory, spoke Slovak and
                    > identified themselves
                    > as
                    > > being Slovak then they would be a Hungarian-Slovak.
                    > Hungarians did live
                    > and
                    > > still do live in Slovak territory.
                    > > As for finding your Szarka family in Germany. Do a
                    > search for German
                    > > Genealogical websites and approach them as you did us.
                    > They would know the
                    > > ins and outs for Germany. If your family communicated
                    > with one another
                    > their
                    > > might be a letter or address book that can give you
                    > that all important
                    > > "where" in Germany.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > From: sheils@... <mailto:sheils%40att.net>
                    > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:58 AM
                    > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@
                    > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
                    > >
                    > > I have to assume that the ancestor's my family would
                    > have descended from
                    > > where Hungarian then. My mother gave me the spelling
                    > of her granmothers
                    > > maiden name from an obit. so I believe that to be
                    > correct. I am also aware
                    > > of Szarka's that are possibly living in Germany. My
                    > mother states her
                    > Uncle
                    > > Joseph Szarka married a German woman after WWII and
                    > settled in Germany to
                    > > live. He has since past, but last I knew his wife was
                    > still alive. Of
                    > course
                    > > that was over 15 years ago. I am fairly positive that
                    > they had children. I
                    > > even met my Uncle Joseph once when he came to the
                    > states but I was very
                    > > young at the time. I think he may have come over in
                    > 1979. Does anyone know
                    > > of Szarka's currently living in Germany?
                    > >
                    > > Sheila
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/>
                    yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogro
                    <http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS> ups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                    > -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-
                    <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.comYahoo>
                    unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo!
                    > Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    > mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-
                    <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com>
                    fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Theresa
                    Hi, I looked up magpie in Hungarian and it is szakra. Szarka is Hungarian for pie. No translation available in Slovak for sarka. Theresa
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 15, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi,

                      I looked up "magpie" in Hungarian and it is szakra.
                      Szarka is Hungarian for "pie."

                      No translation available in Slovak for sarka.

                      Theresa
                    • Janet Kozlay
                      Hi Theresa, I know it s very late (nearly 4 a.m. here), but you ve either got a bad Hungarian dictionary or a typo. It is szarka, not szakra. Got to get some
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 15, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Theresa,

                        I know it's very late (nearly 4 a.m. here), but you've either got a bad
                        Hungarian dictionary or a typo. It is szarka, not szakra.



                        Got to get some sleep.



                        Janet







                        _____

                        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of Theresa
                        Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 2:35 AM
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Szarka and Sarka








                        Hi,

                        I looked up "magpie" in Hungarian and it is szakra.
                        Szarka is Hungarian for "pie."

                        No translation available in Slovak for sarka.

                        Theresa





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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