Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Szarka/Krizsek

Expand Messages
  • sheils@att.net
    I have to assume that the ancestor s my family would have descended from where Hungarian then. My mother gave me the spelling of her granmothers maiden name
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 12, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      I have to assume that the ancestor's my family would have descended from
      where Hungarian then. My mother gave me the spelling of her granmothers
      maiden name from an obit. so I believe that to be correct. I am also aware of Szarka's that are possibly living in Germany. My mother states her Uncle Joseph Szarka married a German woman after WWII and settled in Germany to live. He has since past, but last I knew his wife was still alive. Of course that was over 15 years ago. I am fairly positive that they had children. I even met my Uncle Joseph once when he came to the states but I was very young at the time. I think he may have come over in 1979. Does anyone know of Szarka's currently living in Germany?

      Sheila
    • Michael Mojher
      Sheila, Historically the present day Slovakia was for 900 years ruled over by Hungary. It was referred to as Upper Hungary. After WW I Czechoslovakia was
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 12, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Sheila,
        Historically the present day Slovakia was for 900 years ruled over by Hungary. It was referred to as Upper Hungary. After WW I Czechoslovakia was created. The two territories only connection to one another was linguistically. In 1993 Slovakia finally got its independence.
        While under Hungarian rule the Slovaks kept their identity. In the late 1800's the Hungarians had a policy called Magyarization where they wanted only the Hungarian language used. This meant that Slovaks had their names entered into records with Hungarian spellings. One of the signals for a Hungarian name or word is the use of "sz' and "zs". Because they happen to be in your surnames does not mean they identified with being Hungarian. Your ancestral villages were in Slovak territory. Which would make them most likely Slovak. If you know which language they spoke that could clarify whether they were Hungarian or Slovak.
        If you recall, I did not find anyone in Slovakia with the surname Krizsek, but there was the spelling Krizek. This would lead me to believe that Krizek is the correct spelling of your surname.
        Since Szarka still exists in Slovakia in great numbers and it has a Hungarian spelling I would presume it is a Hungarian surname. If the family had lived in the Slovak territory, spoke Slovak and identified themselves as being Slovak then they would be a Hungarian-Slovak. Hungarians did live and still do live in Slovak territory.
        As for finding your Szarka family in Germany. Do a search for German Genealogical websites and approach them as you did us. They would know the ins and outs for Germany. If your family communicated with one another their might be a letter or address book that can give you that all important "where" in Germany.



        From: sheils@...
        Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:58 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek





        I have to assume that the ancestor's my family would have descended from
        where Hungarian then. My mother gave me the spelling of her granmothers
        maiden name from an obit. so I believe that to be correct. I am also aware of Szarka's that are possibly living in Germany. My mother states her Uncle Joseph Szarka married a German woman after WWII and settled in Germany to live. He has since past, but last I knew his wife was still alive. Of course that was over 15 years ago. I am fairly positive that they had children. I even met my Uncle Joseph once when he came to the states but I was very young at the time. I think he may have come over in 1979. Does anyone know of Szarka's currently living in Germany?

        Sheila





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Janet Kozlay
        In addition to Michael s information, the Hungarian spelled Szarka and Slovak spelled Sarka are both relatively common in the Slovak phone directory (168 and
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 12, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          In addition to Michael's information, the Hungarian spelled Szarka and
          Slovak spelled Sarka are both relatively common in the Slovak phone
          directory (168 and 127, respectively; also, 75 Szarkovas and 29 Sarkovas).
          They are even more common in the Hungarian phone directory-both spellings
          occur in Hungary in excess of 500 entries. To confuse the issue even
          further, if you look at the census records for 1910 and 1920, where country
          of birth and language spoken are both listed, there is no strong correlation
          between spelling and language spoken. That is, you will find Szarkas
          speaking Slovak and Sarkas speaking Hungarian. In addition, you will find
          mixed families where the husband spoke one language and the wife the other.
          In truth, many immigrants from historic Hungary were at least bilingual and
          probably most commonly spoke the language of the neighborhood in which they
          settled.



          The fact that Szarka (and Szarkova) is found more frequently than Sarka (and
          Sarkova) suggests, but does not prove, that it may have Hungarian origins.
          The name means magpie in both languages.



          If this is an important issue for you, I suggest that you find the U.S.
          census records for the family and see what language they reported using.



          In contrast, Krizsek/Krizek is quite rare in Hungary (Krizsek 7 phone
          directory entries, Krizek 1 entry).



          Janet







          _____

          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Michael Mojher
          Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 12:30 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek








          Sheila,
          Historically the present day Slovakia was for 900 years ruled over by
          Hungary. It was referred to as Upper Hungary. After WW I Czechoslovakia was
          created. The two territories only connection to one another was
          linguistically. In 1993 Slovakia finally got its independence.
          While under Hungarian rule the Slovaks kept their identity. In the late
          1800's the Hungarians had a policy called Magyarization where they wanted
          only the Hungarian language used. This meant that Slovaks had their names
          entered into records with Hungarian spellings. One of the signals for a
          Hungarian name or word is the use of "sz' and "zs". Because they happen to
          be in your surnames does not mean they identified with being Hungarian. Your
          ancestral villages were in Slovak territory. Which would make them most
          likely Slovak. If you know which language they spoke that could clarify
          whether they were Hungarian or Slovak.
          If you recall, I did not find anyone in Slovakia with the surname Krizsek,
          but there was the spelling Krizek. This would lead me to believe that Krizek
          is the correct spelling of your surname.
          Since Szarka still exists in Slovakia in great numbers and it has a
          Hungarian spelling I would presume it is a Hungarian surname. If the family
          had lived in the Slovak territory, spoke Slovak and identified themselves as
          being Slovak then they would be a Hungarian-Slovak. Hungarians did live and
          still do live in Slovak territory.
          As for finding your Szarka family in Germany. Do a search for German
          Genealogical websites and approach them as you did us. They would know the
          ins and outs for Germany. If your family communicated with one another their
          might be a letter or address book that can give you that all important
          "where" in Germany.


          From: sheils@... <mailto:sheils%40att.net>
          Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:58 AM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek

          I have to assume that the ancestor's my family would have descended from
          where Hungarian then. My mother gave me the spelling of her granmothers
          maiden name from an obit. so I believe that to be correct. I am also aware
          of Szarka's that are possibly living in Germany. My mother states her Uncle
          Joseph Szarka married a German woman after WWII and settled in Germany to
          live. He has since past, but last I knew his wife was still alive. Of course
          that was over 15 years ago. I am fairly positive that they had children. I
          even met my Uncle Joseph once when he came to the states but I was very
          young at the time. I think he may have come over in 1979. Does anyone know
          of Szarka's currently living in Germany?

          Sheila

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ben/Milka Sorensen
          Sarka- vírusová choroba sliviek prejavujúca sa prehlbeninami a hnednutím povrchu plodov. Sarka (En? anyone?)- a viral ailment that attacks plumbs,
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 14, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Sarka- vírusová choroba sliviek prejavujúca sa prehlbeninami a hnednutím povrchu plodov.

            Sarka (En? anyone?)- a viral ailment that attacks plumbs, indicated by a thickening and a browning of the fruit's surface.

            I am not very good at zoology in English or Slovak, and I don't speak Hungarian, but this is just to correct that a sarka is NOT a magpie in Slovak. In Slovak, that is straka ciernozoba. Just so that no one goes looking for sarky in Slovakia- you will be doing something other than ornithology.

            It is the bane of all brewers of slivovica- and that is how I knew that translation was incorrect. :-P
            Ben



            >
            > In addition to Michael's information, the Hungarian spelled Szarka and
            > Slovak spelled Sarka are both relatively common in the Slovak phone
            > directory (168 and 127, respectively; also, 75 Szarkovas and 29 Sarkovas).
            > They are even more common in the Hungarian phone directory-both spellings
            > occur in Hungary in excess of 500 entries. To confuse the issue even
            > further, if you look at the census records for 1910 and 1920, where country
            > of birth and language spoken are both listed, there is no strong correlation
            > between spelling and language spoken. That is, you will find Szarkas
            > speaking Slovak and Sarkas speaking Hungarian. In addition, you will find
            > mixed families where the husband spoke one language and the wife the other.
            > In truth, many immigrants from historic Hungary were at least bilingual and
            > probably most commonly spoke the language of the neighborhood in which they
            > settled.
            >
            >
            >
            > The fact that Szarka (and Szarkova) is found more frequently than Sarka (and
            > Sarkova) suggests, but does not prove, that it may have Hungarian origins.
            > The name means magpie in both languages.
            >
            >
            >
            > If this is an important issue for you, I suggest that you find the U.S.
            > census records for the family and see what language they reported using.
            >
            >
            >
            > In contrast, Krizsek/Krizek is quite rare in Hungary (Krizsek 7 phone
            > directory entries, Krizek 1 entry).
            >
            >
            >
            > Janet
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > _____
            >
            > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
            > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
            > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 12:30 PM
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Sheila,
            > Historically the present day Slovakia was for 900 years ruled over by
            > Hungary. It was referred to as Upper Hungary. After WW I Czechoslovakia was
            > created. The two territories only connection to one another was
            > linguistically. In 1993 Slovakia finally got its independence.
            > While under Hungarian rule the Slovaks kept their identity. In the late
            > 1800's the Hungarians had a policy called Magyarization where they wanted
            > only the Hungarian language used. This meant that Slovaks had their names
            > entered into records with Hungarian spellings. One of the signals for a
            > Hungarian name or word is the use of "sz' and "zs". Because they happen to
            > be in your surnames does not mean they identified with being Hungarian. Your
            > ancestral villages were in Slovak territory. Which would make them most
            > likely Slovak. If you know which language they spoke that could clarify
            > whether they were Hungarian or Slovak.
            > If you recall, I did not find anyone in Slovakia with the surname Krizsek,
            > but there was the spelling Krizek. This would lead me to believe that Krizek
            > is the correct spelling of your surname.
            > Since Szarka still exists in Slovakia in great numbers and it has a
            > Hungarian spelling I would presume it is a Hungarian surname. If the family
            > had lived in the Slovak territory, spoke Slovak and identified themselves as
            > being Slovak then they would be a Hungarian-Slovak. Hungarians did live and
            > still do live in Slovak territory.
            > As for finding your Szarka family in Germany. Do a search for German
            > Genealogical websites and approach them as you did us. They would know the
            > ins and outs for Germany. If your family communicated with one another their
            > might be a letter or address book that can give you that all important
            > "where" in Germany.
            >
            >
            > From: sheils@... <mailto:sheils%40att.net>
            > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:58 AM
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
            >
            > I have to assume that the ancestor's my family would have descended from
            > where Hungarian then. My mother gave me the spelling of her granmothers
            > maiden name from an obit. so I believe that to be correct. I am also aware
            > of Szarka's that are possibly living in Germany. My mother states her Uncle
            > Joseph Szarka married a German woman after WWII and settled in Germany to
            > live. He has since past, but last I knew his wife was still alive. Of course
            > that was over 15 years ago. I am fairly positive that they had children. I
            > even met my Uncle Joseph once when he came to the states but I was very
            > young at the time. I think he may have come over in 1979. Does anyone know
            > of Szarka's currently living in Germany?
            >
            > Sheila
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Ben Sorensen
            I just read this again, and whilst writing a friend a recipe and responding to this, I told him to wait for the froth to begin pitting, and wrote about the
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 14, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              I just read this again, and whilst writing a friend a recipe and responding to this, I told him to wait for the froth to begin pitting, and wrote about the thickening of the plumb skin.
               
              So, my correction- the plumb gets pitted, not thickened.
              I am home alone with a four year old. Sorry all. :-D
              Ben

              --- On Sun, 6/14/09, Ben/Milka Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:


              From: Ben/Milka Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 2:12 PM








              Sarka- vírusová choroba sliviek prejavujúca sa prehlbeninami a hnednutím povrchu plodov.

              Sarka (En? anyone?)- a viral ailment that attacks plumbs, indicated by a thickening and a browning of the fruit's surface.

              I am not very good at zoology in English or Slovak, and I don't speak Hungarian, but this is just to correct that a sarka is NOT a magpie in Slovak. In Slovak, that is straka ciernozoba. Just so that no one goes looking for sarky in Slovakia- you will be doing something other than ornithology.

              It is the bane of all brewers of slivovica- and that is how I knew that translation was incorrect. :-P
              Ben

              >
              > In addition to Michael's information, the Hungarian spelled Szarka and
              > Slovak spelled Sarka are both relatively common in the Slovak phone
              > directory (168 and 127, respectively; also, 75 Szarkovas and 29 Sarkovas).
              > They are even more common in the Hungarian phone directory-both spellings
              > occur in Hungary in excess of 500 entries. To confuse the issue even
              > further, if you look at the census records for 1910 and 1920, where country
              > of birth and language spoken are both listed, there is no strong correlation
              > between spelling and language spoken. That is, you will find Szarkas
              > speaking Slovak and Sarkas speaking Hungarian. In addition, you will find
              > mixed families where the husband spoke one language and the wife the other.
              > In truth, many immigrants from historic Hungary were at least bilingual and
              > probably most commonly spoke the language of the neighborhood in which they
              > settled.
              >
              >
              >
              > The fact that Szarka (and Szarkova) is found more frequently than Sarka (and
              > Sarkova) suggests, but does not prove, that it may have Hungarian origins.
              > The name means magpie in both languages.
              >
              >
              >
              > If this is an important issue for you, I suggest that you find the U.S.
              > census records for the family and see what language they reported using.
              >
              >
              >
              > In contrast, Krizsek/Krizek is quite rare in Hungary (Krizsek 7 phone
              > directory entries, Krizek 1 entry).
              >
              >
              >
              > Janet
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com] On
              > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
              > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 12:30 PM
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
              > Subject: Re: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Sheila,
              > Historically the present day Slovakia was for 900 years ruled over by
              > Hungary. It was referred to as Upper Hungary. After WW I Czechoslovakia was
              > created. The two territories only connection to one another was
              > linguistically. In 1993 Slovakia finally got its independence.
              > While under Hungarian rule the Slovaks kept their identity. In the late
              > 1800's the Hungarians had a policy called Magyarization where they wanted
              > only the Hungarian language used. This meant that Slovaks had their names
              > entered into records with Hungarian spellings. One of the signals for a
              > Hungarian name or word is the use of "sz' and "zs". Because they happen to
              > be in your surnames does not mean they identified with being Hungarian. Your
              > ancestral villages were in Slovak territory. Which would make them most
              > likely Slovak. If you know which language they spoke that could clarify
              > whether they were Hungarian or Slovak.
              > If you recall, I did not find anyone in Slovakia with the surname Krizsek,
              > but there was the spelling Krizek. This would lead me to believe that Krizek
              > is the correct spelling of your surname.
              > Since Szarka still exists in Slovakia in great numbers and it has a
              > Hungarian spelling I would presume it is a Hungarian surname. If the family
              > had lived in the Slovak territory, spoke Slovak and identified themselves as
              > being Slovak then they would be a Hungarian-Slovak. Hungarians did live and
              > still do live in Slovak territory.
              > As for finding your Szarka family in Germany. Do a search for German
              > Genealogical websites and approach them as you did us. They would know the
              > ins and outs for Germany. If your family communicated with one another their
              > might be a letter or address book that can give you that all important
              > "where" in Germany.
              >
              >
              > From: sheils@... <mailto:sheils% 40att.net>
              > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:58 AM
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK- ROOTS%40yahoogro ups.com> yahoogroups. com
              > Subject: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
              >
              > I have to assume that the ancestor's my family would have descended from
              > where Hungarian then. My mother gave me the spelling of her granmothers
              > maiden name from an obit. so I believe that to be correct. I am also aware
              > of Szarka's that are possibly living in Germany. My mother states her Uncle
              > Joseph Szarka married a German woman after WWII and settled in Germany to
              > live. He has since past, but last I knew his wife was still alive. Of course
              > that was over 15 years ago. I am fairly positive that they had children. I
              > even met my Uncle Joseph once when he came to the states but I was very
              > young at the time. I think he may have come over in 1979. Does anyone know
              > of Szarka's currently living in Germany?
              >
              > Sheila
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >



















              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Janet Kozlay
              I swear I didn t just make it up out of thin air when I stated that sarka meant magpie in Slovak. However, I must confess that I cannot now find the reference.
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 14, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                I swear I didn't just make it up out of thin air when I stated that sarka
                meant magpie in Slovak. However, I must confess that I cannot now find the
                reference. On the other hand, there are quite a few sites that state that
                �arka means magpie in Lithuanian-not that that is any help. Indeed, straka
                seems to be the Slovak word for magpie. I apologize for my error.



                Janet







                _____

                From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Ben/Milka Sorensen
                Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 1:12 PM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek








                Sarka- v�rusov� choroba sliviek prejavuj�ca sa prehlbeninami a hnednut�m
                povrchu plodov.

                Sarka (En? anyone?)- a viral ailment that attacks plumbs, indicated by a
                thickening and a browning of the fruit's surface.

                I am not very good at zoology in English or Slovak, and I don't speak
                Hungarian, but this is just to correct that a sarka is NOT a magpie in
                Slovak. In Slovak, that is straka ciernozoba. Just so that no one goes
                looking for sarky in Slovakia- you will be doing something other than
                ornithology.

                It is the bane of all brewers of slivovica- and that is how I knew that
                translation was incorrect. :-P
                Ben

                >
                > In addition to Michael's information, the Hungarian spelled Szarka and
                > Slovak spelled Sarka are both relatively common in the Slovak phone
                > directory (168 and 127, respectively; also, 75 Szarkovas and 29 Sarkovas).
                > They are even more common in the Hungarian phone directory-both spellings
                > occur in Hungary in excess of 500 entries. To confuse the issue even
                > further, if you look at the census records for 1910 and 1920, where
                country
                > of birth and language spoken are both listed, there is no strong
                correlation
                > between spelling and language spoken. That is, you will find Szarkas
                > speaking Slovak and Sarkas speaking Hungarian. In addition, you will find
                > mixed families where the husband spoke one language and the wife the
                other.
                > In truth, many immigrants from historic Hungary were at least bilingual
                and
                > probably most commonly spoke the language of the neighborhood in which
                they
                > settled.
                >
                >
                >
                > The fact that Szarka (and Szarkova) is found more frequently than Sarka
                (and
                > Sarkova) suggests, but does not prove, that it may have Hungarian origins.
                > The name means magpie in both languages.
                >
                >
                >
                > If this is an important issue for you, I suggest that you find the U.S.
                > census records for the family and see what language they reported using.
                >
                >
                >
                > In contrast, Krizsek/Krizek is quite rare in Hungary (Krizsek 7 phone
                > directory entries, Krizek 1 entry).
                >
                >
                >
                > Janet
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > _____
                >
                > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@
                <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On
                > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 12:30 PM
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Sheila,
                > Historically the present day Slovakia was for 900 years ruled over by
                > Hungary. It was referred to as Upper Hungary. After WW I Czechoslovakia
                was
                > created. The two territories only connection to one another was
                > linguistically. In 1993 Slovakia finally got its independence.
                > While under Hungarian rule the Slovaks kept their identity. In the late
                > 1800's the Hungarians had a policy called Magyarization where they wanted
                > only the Hungarian language used. This meant that Slovaks had their names
                > entered into records with Hungarian spellings. One of the signals for a
                > Hungarian name or word is the use of "sz' and "zs". Because they happen to
                > be in your surnames does not mean they identified with being Hungarian.
                Your
                > ancestral villages were in Slovak territory. Which would make them most
                > likely Slovak. If you know which language they spoke that could clarify
                > whether they were Hungarian or Slovak.
                > If you recall, I did not find anyone in Slovakia with the surname Krizsek,
                > but there was the spelling Krizek. This would lead me to believe that
                Krizek
                > is the correct spelling of your surname.
                > Since Szarka still exists in Slovakia in great numbers and it has a
                > Hungarian spelling I would presume it is a Hungarian surname. If the
                family
                > had lived in the Slovak territory, spoke Slovak and identified themselves
                as
                > being Slovak then they would be a Hungarian-Slovak. Hungarians did live
                and
                > still do live in Slovak territory.
                > As for finding your Szarka family in Germany. Do a search for German
                > Genealogical websites and approach them as you did us. They would know the
                > ins and outs for Germany. If your family communicated with one another
                their
                > might be a letter or address book that can give you that all important
                > "where" in Germany.
                >
                >
                > From: sheils@... <mailto:sheils%40att.net>
                > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:58 AM
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
                >
                > I have to assume that the ancestor's my family would have descended from
                > where Hungarian then. My mother gave me the spelling of her granmothers
                > maiden name from an obit. so I believe that to be correct. I am also aware
                > of Szarka's that are possibly living in Germany. My mother states her
                Uncle
                > Joseph Szarka married a German woman after WWII and settled in Germany to
                > live. He has since past, but last I knew his wife was still alive. Of
                course
                > that was over 15 years ago. I am fairly positive that they had children. I
                > even met my Uncle Joseph once when he came to the states but I was very
                > young at the time. I think he may have come over in 1979. Does anyone know
                > of Szarka's currently living in Germany?
                >
                > Sheila
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ben Sorensen
                Dear Janet, I doubt that you could make that up in thin air. I am almost certain that the source you had was confused between two very similar- and even more
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 14, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear Janet,
                  I doubt that you could make that up in thin air. I am almost certain that the source you had was confused between two very similar- and even more so if you are not speaking Slovak every day!- spellings: SARKA and STRAKA. I am sure you know that the quality of bilingual dictionaries in SK-EN are very low compared to German/Spanish/Italian or even thier Czech counterparts. It is a problem, and people end up saying things in one language or the other because of it that confuse or misguide us.

                  I would like to point out how many SLOVAK books are on the market on AbeBooks, and they are listed as Slovenian/Croatian/LATVIAN. This is a renouned book-seller, and yet the mistake is RIGHT there for everyone to see- but NO ONE fixes it, because so few of us would notice it. It is NOT something to be ashamed of... and you don't need to appologize for the mistake. One person told me thier favorite Slovak saying- and it was in German. :-P There you go...

                  I wonder what the word for magpie is in Hungarian- perhaps szarka? I dunno... I am still learning English- my first language- and therefore I commend your attempt to translate sarka. My previous spelling of plum proves that, and I taught English. Kazdy sa myli/everyone makes mistakes.
                  Ben

                  --- On Sun, 6/14/09, Janet Kozlay <kozlay@...> wrote:

                  > From: Janet Kozlay <kozlay@...>
                  > Subject: RE: [S-R] Szarka and Sarka
                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 6:01 PM
                  > I swear I didn't just make it up out
                  > of thin air when I stated that sarka
                  > meant magpie in Slovak. However, I must confess that I
                  > cannot now find the
                  > reference. On the other hand, there are quite a few sites
                  > that state that
                  > ¹arka means magpie in Lithuanian-not that that is any
                  > help. Indeed, straka
                  > seems to be the Slovak word for magpie. I apologize for my
                  > error.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Janet
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >   _____ 
                  >
                  > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                  > On
                  > Behalf Of Ben/Milka Sorensen
                  > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 1:12 PM
                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Sarka- vírusová choroba sliviek prejavujúca sa
                  > prehlbeninami a hnednutím
                  > povrchu plodov.
                  >
                  > Sarka (En? anyone?)- a viral ailment that attacks plumbs,
                  > indicated by a
                  > thickening and a browning of the fruit's surface.
                  >
                  > I am not very good at zoology in English or Slovak, and I
                  > don't speak
                  > Hungarian, but this is just to correct that a sarka is NOT
                  > a magpie in
                  > Slovak. In Slovak, that is straka ciernozoba. Just so that
                  > no one goes
                  > looking for sarky in Slovakia- you will be doing something
                  > other than
                  > ornithology.
                  >
                  > It is the bane of all brewers of slivovica- and that is how
                  > I knew that
                  > translation was incorrect. :-P
                  > Ben
                  >
                  > >
                  > > In addition to Michael's information, the Hungarian
                  > spelled Szarka and
                  > > Slovak spelled Sarka are both relatively common in the
                  > Slovak phone
                  > > directory (168 and 127, respectively; also, 75
                  > Szarkovas and 29 Sarkovas).
                  > > They are even more common in the Hungarian phone
                  > directory-both spellings
                  > > occur in Hungary in excess of 500 entries. To confuse
                  > the issue even
                  > > further, if you look at the census records for 1910
                  > and 1920, where
                  > country
                  > > of birth and language spoken are both listed, there is
                  > no strong
                  > correlation
                  > > between spelling and language spoken. That is, you
                  > will find Szarkas
                  > > speaking Slovak and Sarkas speaking Hungarian. In
                  > addition, you will find
                  > > mixed families where the husband spoke one language
                  > and the wife the
                  > other.
                  > > In truth, many immigrants from historic Hungary were
                  > at least bilingual
                  > and
                  > > probably most commonly spoke the language of the
                  > neighborhood in which
                  > they
                  > > settled.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > The fact that Szarka (and Szarkova) is found more
                  > frequently than Sarka
                  > (and
                  > > Sarkova) suggests, but does not prove, that it may
                  > have Hungarian origins.
                  > > The name means magpie in both languages.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > If this is an important issue for you, I suggest that
                  > you find the U.S.
                  > > census records for the family and see what language
                  > they reported using.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > In contrast, Krizsek/Krizek is quite rare in Hungary
                  > (Krizsek 7 phone
                  > > directory entries, Krizek 1 entry).
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Janet
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > _____
                  > >
                  > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@
                  > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@
                  > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > yahoogroups.com] On
                  > > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                  > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 12:30 PM
                  > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@
                  > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Sheila,
                  > > Historically the present day Slovakia was for 900
                  > years ruled over by
                  > > Hungary. It was referred to as Upper Hungary. After WW
                  > I Czechoslovakia
                  > was
                  > > created. The two territories only connection to one
                  > another was
                  > > linguistically. In 1993 Slovakia finally got its
                  > independence.
                  > > While under Hungarian rule the Slovaks kept their
                  > identity. In the late
                  > > 1800's the Hungarians had a policy called
                  > Magyarization where they wanted
                  > > only the Hungarian language used. This meant that
                  > Slovaks had their names
                  > > entered into records with Hungarian spellings. One of
                  > the signals for a
                  > > Hungarian name or word is the use of "sz' and "zs".
                  > Because they happen to
                  > > be in your surnames does not mean they identified with
                  > being Hungarian.
                  > Your
                  > > ancestral villages were in Slovak territory. Which
                  > would make them most
                  > > likely Slovak. If you know which language they spoke
                  > that could clarify
                  > > whether they were Hungarian or Slovak.
                  > > If you recall, I did not find anyone in Slovakia with
                  > the surname Krizsek,
                  > > but there was the spelling Krizek. This would lead me
                  > to believe that
                  > Krizek
                  > > is the correct spelling of your surname.
                  > > Since Szarka still exists in Slovakia in great numbers
                  > and it has a
                  > > Hungarian spelling I would presume it is a Hungarian
                  > surname. If the
                  > family
                  > > had lived in the Slovak territory, spoke Slovak and
                  > identified themselves
                  > as
                  > > being Slovak then they would be a Hungarian-Slovak.
                  > Hungarians did live
                  > and
                  > > still do live in Slovak territory.
                  > > As for finding your Szarka family in Germany. Do a
                  > search for German
                  > > Genealogical websites and approach them as you did us.
                  > They would know the
                  > > ins and outs for Germany. If your family communicated
                  > with one another
                  > their
                  > > might be a letter or address book that can give you
                  > that all important
                  > > "where" in Germany.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > From: sheils@... <mailto:sheils%40att.net>
                  > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:58 AM
                  > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@
                  > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
                  > >
                  > > I have to assume that the ancestor's my family would
                  > have descended from
                  > > where Hungarian then. My mother gave me the spelling
                  > of her granmothers
                  > > maiden name from an obit. so I believe that to be
                  > correct. I am also aware
                  > > of Szarka's that are possibly living in Germany. My
                  > mother states her
                  > Uncle
                  > > Joseph Szarka married a German woman after WWII and
                  > settled in Germany to
                  > > live. He has since past, but last I knew his wife was
                  > still alive. Of
                  > course
                  > > that was over 15 years ago. I am fairly positive that
                  > they had children. I
                  > > even met my Uncle Joseph once when he came to the
                  > states but I was very
                  > > young at the time. I think he may have come over in
                  > 1979. Does anyone know
                  > > of Szarka's currently living in Germany?
                  > >
                  > > Sheila
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS%c2%a0
                  > -or- send  blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo!
                  > Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >     mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Nick Holcz
                  Ben Plumb is level Plum is fruit It s OK cos Slovak is like Martian to me Nick
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 15, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Ben
                    Plumb is level
                    Plum is fruit
                    It's OK cos Slovak is like Martian to me

                    Nick
                  • Janet Kozlay
                    Thanks, Ben. I feel better now. I do not have a good Slovak-English dictionary and have to depend on the not-so-adequate ones that are on line. I do, however,
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 15, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thanks, Ben. I feel better now. I do not have a good Slovak-English
                      dictionary and have to depend on the not-so-adequate ones that are on line.
                      I do, however, have a good Hungarian-English dictionary and, yes, szarka
                      means magpie. There are so many borrow words between Hungarian and Slovak
                      that I never questioned the possibility, even the probability, that they
                      were the same word. Assumptions can get you in a lot of trouble.



                      Even if we cannot say that the meanings of szarka and sarka are the same,
                      that still leaves the possibility that the NAMES are the same—that Sarka is
                      a Slovak spelling of the Hungarian name Szarka. As I mentioned before, the
                      fact that Szarkas outnumber Sarkas both in Slovakia and Hungary, and that
                      both names appear to be more common in Hungary than in Slovakia, would tend
                      to support such a hypothesis, but of course does not prove it. One would
                      need to see a single family using both spellings, which might well turn up
                      in the church records.



                      Janet



                      _____

                      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of Ben Sorensen
                      Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 10:18 PM
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [S-R] Szarka and Sarka









                      Dear Janet,
                      I doubt that you could make that up in thin air. I am almost certain that
                      the source you had was confused between two very similar- and even more so
                      if you are not speaking Slovak every day!- spellings: SARKA and STRAKA. I am
                      sure you know that the quality of bilingual dictionaries in SK-EN are very
                      low compared to German/Spanish/Italian or even thier Czech counterparts. It
                      is a problem, and people end up saying things in one language or the other
                      because of it that confuse or misguide us.

                      I would like to point out how many SLOVAK books are on the market on
                      AbeBooks, and they are listed as Slovenian/Croatian/LATVIAN. This is a
                      renouned book-seller, and yet the mistake is RIGHT there for everyone to
                      see- but NO ONE fixes it, because so few of us would notice it. It is NOT
                      something to be ashamed of... and you don't need to appologize for the
                      mistake. One person told me thier favorite Slovak saying- and it was in
                      German. :-P There you go...

                      I wonder what the word for magpie is in Hungarian- perhaps szarka? I
                      dunno... I am still learning English- my first language- and therefore I
                      commend your attempt to translate sarka. My previous spelling of plum proves
                      that, and I taught English. Kazdy sa myli/everyone makes mistakes.
                      Ben

                      --- On Sun, 6/14/09, Janet Kozlay <kozlay@verizon.
                      <mailto:kozlay%40verizon.net> net> wrote:

                      > From: Janet Kozlay <kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay%40verizon.net> net>
                      > Subject: RE: [S-R] Szarka and Sarka
                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 6:01 PM
                      > I swear I didn't just make it up out
                      > of thin air when I stated that sarka
                      > meant magpie in Slovak. However, I must confess that I
                      > cannot now find the
                      > reference. On the other hand, there are quite a few sites
                      > that state that
                      > ¹arka means magpie in Lithuanian-not that that is any
                      > help. Indeed, straka
                      > seems to be the Slovak word for magpie. I apologize for my
                      > error.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Janet
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > _____
                      >
                      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                      yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                      yahoogroups.com]
                      > On
                      > Behalf Of Ben/Milka Sorensen
                      > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 1:12 PM
                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Sarka- vírusová choroba sliviek prejavujúca sa
                      > prehlbeninami a hnednutím
                      > povrchu plodov.
                      >
                      > Sarka (En? anyone?)- a viral ailment that attacks plumbs,
                      > indicated by a
                      > thickening and a browning of the fruit's surface.
                      >
                      > I am not very good at zoology in English or Slovak, and I
                      > don't speak
                      > Hungarian, but this is just to correct that a sarka is NOT
                      > a magpie in
                      > Slovak. In Slovak, that is straka ciernozoba. Just so that
                      > no one goes
                      > looking for sarky in Slovakia- you will be doing something
                      > other than
                      > ornithology.
                      >
                      > It is the bane of all brewers of slivovica- and that is how
                      > I knew that
                      > translation was incorrect. :-P
                      > Ben
                      >
                      > >
                      > > In addition to Michael's information, the Hungarian
                      > spelled Szarka and
                      > > Slovak spelled Sarka are both relatively common in the
                      > Slovak phone
                      > > directory (168 and 127, respectively; also, 75
                      > Szarkovas and 29 Sarkovas).
                      > > They are even more common in the Hungarian phone
                      > directory-both spellings
                      > > occur in Hungary in excess of 500 entries. To confuse
                      > the issue even
                      > > further, if you look at the census records for 1910
                      > and 1920, where
                      > country
                      > > of birth and language spoken are both listed, there is
                      > no strong
                      > correlation
                      > > between spelling and language spoken. That is, you
                      > will find Szarkas
                      > > speaking Slovak and Sarkas speaking Hungarian. In
                      > addition, you will find
                      > > mixed families where the husband spoke one language
                      > and the wife the
                      > other.
                      > > In truth, many immigrants from historic Hungary were
                      > at least bilingual
                      > and
                      > > probably most commonly spoke the language of the
                      > neighborhood in which
                      > they
                      > > settled.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > The fact that Szarka (and Szarkova) is found more
                      > frequently than Sarka
                      > (and
                      > > Sarkova) suggests, but does not prove, that it may
                      > have Hungarian origins.
                      > > The name means magpie in both languages.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > If this is an important issue for you, I suggest that
                      > you find the U.S.
                      > > census records for the family and see what language
                      > they reported using.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > In contrast, Krizsek/Krizek is quite rare in Hungary
                      > (Krizsek 7 phone
                      > > directory entries, Krizek 1 entry).
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Janet
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > _____
                      > >
                      > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@
                      > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@
                      > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > yahoogroups.com] On
                      > > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                      > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 12:30 PM
                      > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@
                      > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Sheila,
                      > > Historically the present day Slovakia was for 900
                      > years ruled over by
                      > > Hungary. It was referred to as Upper Hungary. After WW
                      > I Czechoslovakia
                      > was
                      > > created. The two territories only connection to one
                      > another was
                      > > linguistically. In 1993 Slovakia finally got its
                      > independence.
                      > > While under Hungarian rule the Slovaks kept their
                      > identity. In the late
                      > > 1800's the Hungarians had a policy called
                      > Magyarization where they wanted
                      > > only the Hungarian language used. This meant that
                      > Slovaks had their names
                      > > entered into records with Hungarian spellings. One of
                      > the signals for a
                      > > Hungarian name or word is the use of "sz' and "zs".
                      > Because they happen to
                      > > be in your surnames does not mean they identified with
                      > being Hungarian.
                      > Your
                      > > ancestral villages were in Slovak territory. Which
                      > would make them most
                      > > likely Slovak. If you know which language they spoke
                      > that could clarify
                      > > whether they were Hungarian or Slovak.
                      > > If you recall, I did not find anyone in Slovakia with
                      > the surname Krizsek,
                      > > but there was the spelling Krizek. This would lead me
                      > to believe that
                      > Krizek
                      > > is the correct spelling of your surname.
                      > > Since Szarka still exists in Slovakia in great numbers
                      > and it has a
                      > > Hungarian spelling I would presume it is a Hungarian
                      > surname. If the
                      > family
                      > > had lived in the Slovak territory, spoke Slovak and
                      > identified themselves
                      > as
                      > > being Slovak then they would be a Hungarian-Slovak.
                      > Hungarians did live
                      > and
                      > > still do live in Slovak territory.
                      > > As for finding your Szarka family in Germany. Do a
                      > search for German
                      > > Genealogical websites and approach them as you did us.
                      > They would know the
                      > > ins and outs for Germany. If your family communicated
                      > with one another
                      > their
                      > > might be a letter or address book that can give you
                      > that all important
                      > > "where" in Germany.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > From: sheils@... <mailto:sheils%40att.net>
                      > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:58 AM
                      > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@
                      > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: [S-R] Szarka/Krizsek
                      > >
                      > > I have to assume that the ancestor's my family would
                      > have descended from
                      > > where Hungarian then. My mother gave me the spelling
                      > of her granmothers
                      > > maiden name from an obit. so I believe that to be
                      > correct. I am also aware
                      > > of Szarka's that are possibly living in Germany. My
                      > mother states her
                      > Uncle
                      > > Joseph Szarka married a German woman after WWII and
                      > settled in Germany to
                      > > live. He has since past, but last I knew his wife was
                      > still alive. Of
                      > course
                      > > that was over 15 years ago. I am fairly positive that
                      > they had children. I
                      > > even met my Uncle Joseph once when he came to the
                      > states but I was very
                      > > young at the time. I think he may have come over in
                      > 1979. Does anyone know
                      > > of Szarka's currently living in Germany?
                      > >
                      > > Sheila
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/>
                      yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogro
                      <http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS> ups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                      > -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-
                      <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.comYahoo>
                      unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo!
                      > Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      > mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-
                      <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com>
                      fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      >
                      >





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Theresa
                      Hi, I looked up magpie in Hungarian and it is szakra. Szarka is Hungarian for pie. No translation available in Slovak for sarka. Theresa
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 15, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi,

                        I looked up "magpie" in Hungarian and it is szakra.
                        Szarka is Hungarian for "pie."

                        No translation available in Slovak for sarka.

                        Theresa
                      • Janet Kozlay
                        Hi Theresa, I know it s very late (nearly 4 a.m. here), but you ve either got a bad Hungarian dictionary or a typo. It is szarka, not szakra. Got to get some
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jun 15, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Theresa,

                          I know it's very late (nearly 4 a.m. here), but you've either got a bad
                          Hungarian dictionary or a typo. It is szarka, not szakra.



                          Got to get some sleep.



                          Janet







                          _____

                          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                          Behalf Of Theresa
                          Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 2:35 AM
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [S-R] Szarka and Sarka








                          Hi,

                          I looked up "magpie" in Hungarian and it is szakra.
                          Szarka is Hungarian for "pie."

                          No translation available in Slovak for sarka.

                          Theresa





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.