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RE: [S-R] Locating missing church records

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  • Bill Tarkulich
    Janet, I provided you the below data to answer your concern whether the FHL had filmed everything that it was entitled to in the archives. I leave it to you
    Message 1 of 14 , Mar 16, 2009
      Janet,

      I provided you the below data to answer your concern whether the FHL had
      filmed everything that it was entitled to in the archives. I leave it to
      you to reconcile the data.

      As you know, 1895 was the filming cutoff for records as agreed to by the
      FHL and SR Archives for privacy reasons. 1895 was also the cutoff date
      for records placed in the archives. We all know there were variances.

      Lastly, it's just impossible to do anything by speculate about why the
      data are "missing."

      Good Luck on your search.
      Bill

      On Mon, March 16, 2009 10:59 am, Janet Kozlay wrote:
      > Yes, Bill, the marriage and death records are there, but their ledgers end
      > 1895 and 1898 and span 51 and 54 years, respectively. At that time the
      > birth
      > records would have spanned only about 20 years. One might understand a
      > reluctance to begin a new ledger after such a short period of time.
      >
      >
      >
      > Whatever the case, my friend intends to pursue both avenues—contacting the
      > church directly and looking at the Krusetnica records. Hopefully one or
      > the
      > other will be successful.
      >
      >
      >
      > Thanks again.
      >
      > Janet
      >
      >
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
      > On
      > Behalf Of Bill Tarkulich
      > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:18 AM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: RE: [S-R] Locating missing church records
      >
      >
      >
      > Lokca
      > 83, 177, (197), 196
      > Records for Lokca can be found in the following village records, per the
      > SR Archives:
      > DOLNY KUBIN - Jewish, Marriag 1858-1941, 1850-1942, 1850-1897
      > KRUSETNICA, okr. DOLNY KUBIN - Roman Catholic - marriage n. 1787-1843,
      > 1874-1911, s. 1787-1920, z. 1787-1911. Starsie zaznamy sa nachadzaju v
      > matrikach r. kat. farskeho uradu Lokca.
      > LOKCA - Roman Catholic n. 1741-1874, s. 1744-1895, z. 1747-1898.
      >
      > The hypothesis that living records were extant in the birth records is
      > somewhat underminded since marriage and death records are available for
      > the period.
      > TRESTENA okr. Dolny Kubin - Jewish Matriky: n. 1771-1876, 1886-1895, 1897,
      > 1902, 1931-1938, s 1850-1895, z. 1886-1895.
      >
      > Two other notes while searching for needles in a haystack.
      >
      > a) I strongly urge you to check records of adjacent villages. Often I
      > have found a few villagers who have moved there. In the course of due
      > diligence, this is a worthy, if not later step.
      >
      > b) Sometimes the priest dies or departs and there is no record update.
      >
      > c) Most often however, the records are simply lost or destroyed with no
      > explanation. Rumors that someone "hid" them away are legend, but I have
      > never heard of a single instance when records were retrieved from hiding.
      >
      > If I was you, I'd be looking at the KRUSETNICA records next.
      >
      > Good Luck,
      > Bill
      >
      > On Sun, March 15, 2009 10:48 pm, Janet Kozlay wrote:
      >> Thank you, Bill, for your thoughts.
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> The village in question is Lokca in old Arva megye, near Namestovo. The
      >> church is Roman Catholic. The LDS film notes indicate that the birth
      >> records
      >> stop with the year 1874, which is what my friend has found himself. At
      >> the
      >> end of 1874 there is a notation (in Latin) that the records continue
      >> beginning with 1875.
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> All of this seems to support Frank’s suggestion that the ledger
      >> containing
      >> the 1875+ birth records also contains records less than 100 years old,
      >> and
      >> thus it is not yet available for filming. I believe that my friend now
      >> plans
      >> to contact the church directly.
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Thanks to both of you for your help.
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Janet
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> _____
      >>
      >> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@
      > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]
      >> On
      >> Behalf Of Bill Tarkulich
      >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 9:22 PM
      >> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      >> yahoogroups.com
      >> Subject: Re: [S-R] Locating missing church records
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Janet,
      >> Here are the possibilities I have heard of thus far, based on various
      >> research myself and others have done, to address you question of what
      >> has
      >> and has not been filmed. It has been my experience that the filming
      >> teams
      >> have left not stone unturned. Their work is very exacting and it's a
      >> very
      >> low probability that any manifest was neglected. In all my years, I have
      >> heard only of one omission out of 2500 village.
      >>
      >> 1. Archives Cross Reference
      >>
      >> The document "Prehlad matrík na Slovensku do zostátnenia matricnej
      >> agendy"
      >> (Survey of parish registers in Slovakia up to the time of civil
      >> registration) was prepared by the Slovak State Archives in 1992 and
      >> filmed
      >> by the Family History Center (FHC). It is a cross reference of what
      >> Slovak
      >> Republic (SR) villages are contained in each church register stored in
      >> the
      >> Archives. Note that this is comprehensive list of all church records in
      >> the
      >> SR Archives, but that the FHC has not filmed all records at this point.
      >> I
      >> recommend ordering the fiche set (LDS # Fiche 6000786), since its only 6
      >> fiches, is less expensive to order than microfilm and your local FHC
      >> will
      >> probably be willing to keep it indefinitely. Alternately, it is
      >> available
      >> on
      >> Microfilm (LDS Film #1183541)
      >>
      >> I have a copy of this book, so I can do lookups from my home computers
      >> also.
      >>
      >> 2. Still at the church
      >> As Frank indicated, pre 1895 were supposed to go to the archives, but
      >> this
      >> did not always happen. In most cases, records of most all Greek Catholic
      >> Churches did make it there.
      >>
      >> 3. Was your village in Zemplen County?
      >> If so, many records in the Hungary archives from the county seat of
      >> Satoraljaujhely were not repatriated to Slovakia at the end of WWI as
      >> required. In fact, many are still there. Mick Sura uncovered this
      >> valuable
      >> source, as it is officially denied. You would need to engage the
      >> services
      >> of
      >> Mick to gain copies of these.
      >>
      >> I also will comment on privacy. I have seen records as late as 1940 show
      >> up
      >> on the films. This is clearly against the treaty, the privacy laws and
      >> the
      >> FHL-Archives agreements. Things happen.
      >>
      >> For more reading: http://www.iabsi.
      >> <http://www.iabsi. <http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/churches.htm>
      > com/gen/public/churches.htm> com/gen/public/churches.htm
      >>
      >> Regards,
      >>
      >> Bill
      >>
      >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      >> yahoogroups.com, "Frank R Plichta" <frank.r.plichta@...> wrote:
      >>>
      >>> Janet,
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> It is possible to get the records from the local priest at the village
      >>> church. I did that several years ago when I visited both Kosicka Bela
      >>> and
      >>> Dlhé nad Cirochou. I did have several local family members with me so
      >>> identification was not an issue. The priest was very accommodating and
      >>> helped us work our way thru the record books. We left him with a
      >>> generous
      >>> donation for the church.
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> Good Luck.
      >>>
      >>> Frank
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> _____
      >>>
      >>> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      >> yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@
      >> <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On
      >>> Behalf Of Janet Kozlay
      >>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:59 AM
      >>> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      >>> yahoogroups.com
      >>> Subject: RE: [S-R] Locating missing church records
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> Thank you, Frank, for an excellent possible explanation. The inclusive
      >> dates
      >>> for the marriage and death records begin considerably earlier than
      >>> 1875,
      >>> which add weight to your argument.
      >>>
      >>> If this is indeed the case, could the records be obtained from the
      >>> church
      >>> itself, presuming that the request came from a direct descendant?
      >>>
      >>> Janet
      >>>
      >>> _____
      >>>
      >>> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      >> yahoogroups.com
      >>> [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      >>> yahoogroups.com] On
      >>> Behalf Of Frank R Plichta
      >>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 7:23 AM
      >>> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      >>> yahoogroups.com
      >>> Subject: RE: [S-R] Locating missing church records
      >>>
      >>> One possibility is that the village is relatively small and that the
      >> ledger
      >>> book continuing the 1875+ births includes births that are less than 100
      >>> years old and therefore not releasable. My understanding is that they
      >>> are
      >>> only given the records that are 100+ (more or less) old to be filmed.
      >>> If
      >>> the ledger contains newer records the ledger may not have been filmed
      >>> yet.
      >>>
      >>> Frank
      >>>
      >>> _____
      >>>
      >>> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      >> yahoogroups.com
      >>> [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      >>> yahoogroups.com] On
      >>> Behalf Of Janet Kozlay
      >>> Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 10:00 PM
      >>> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      >>> yahoogroups.com
      >>> Subject: [S-R] Locating missing church records
      >>>
      >>> Is there any way to determine if particular church records exist but
      >>> for
      >>> some reason were not filmed or have been misplaced in the microfilms? A
      >>> friend who is researching Lokca has found films for all the records
      >>> except
      >>> for baptisms from 1875 on, i.e., only a 20-year period. The note at the
      >> end
      >>> of 1874 indicates that the records continue beginning with 1875, but
      >>> those
      >>> records are not on the films. How might my friend find out if those
      >> records
      >>> are in the Archives?
      >>>
      >>> Thanks for any leads, Janet
      >>>
      >>> _____
      >>>
      >>> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      >> yahoogroups.com
      >>> [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      >>> yahoogroups.com] On
      >>> Behalf Of Carl Kotlarchik
      >>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:11 AM
      >>> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      >>> yahoogroups.com
      >>> Subject: [S-R] Re: Need help with translation of a Birth Record
      >>>
      >>> Jody,
      >>> The scans that you have posted are not of high enough resolution to
      >>> read.
      >>> Any chance you can post a higher res. image? However the entry
      >>> in the last column does indicate that the child died as you said.
      >>> CK
      >>>
      >>> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      >>> yahoogroups.com, "jodygonda4" <jodygonda4@> wrote:
      >>> >
      >>> > I went back to the LDS center tonight and found another birth record
      >>> for
      >> a
      >>> sibling of my husband's great grandfather. The birth record is posted
      >>> in
      >> my
      >>> Gonda family album in the photos section. In particular, on page 2, I
      >>> am
      >>> interested in knowing the parents names - it looks like George Gonda,
      >>> but
      >> I
      >>> can't make out his wife's name. Also, in the last column, there is a
      >>> comment, am I correct that this states he died on December 25th of
      >>> 1874?
      >> The
      >>> record is the 6th from the top on page 2, on the record that states,
      >> Michael
      >>> Gonda birth record.
      >>> >
      >>>
      >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>>
      >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>>
      >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >>
      >>
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      >>
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      >>
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      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      > --
      > Bill Tarkulich
      > http://www.iabsi. <http://www.iabsi.com> com
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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      >
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      >


      --
      Bill Tarkulich
      http://www.iabsi.com
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