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Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help

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  • Judy (& Dr. Joe) Quashnock
    Bruce, How long have you been searching? Many of us have spent years before making any progress. In my case, it was 9 years before I got a copy of the
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 6, 2000
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      Bruce,

      How long have you been searching? Many of us have spent years before making any
      progress. In my case, it was 9 years before I got a copy of the "place" for my
      great grandfather's birth (it was a copy from the church death record in
      Pennsylvania. It was in hand written script consisting of 10 letters and a "~"
      slightly above and following the last "s"- - - "Hrusov Spis~." This turned out
      to be present day Spišský Hrušov, a small town 10 km east of Spišská Nová Ves.
      I now ancestral data back to 1730.

      Until this break, the best my remaining relatives could come up with was that
      they came from "Žižkov". An interesting position since they spoke Slovak and
      not Czech; and Jan Žižkov is a Czech/Moravian hero. The name just doesn't show
      up in Slovakia. Interestingly enough "Žižkov" sounds a lot like "Hrušov",
      especially to someone who was trying to remember a word he heard nearly 80 years
      ago when he was 7 years old AND the word was spoken by someone who spoke "broken
      English" with a heavy eastern European accent.

      Dr. "Q"

      >Bruce Bagin wrote:

      > The death certificate shows no social security number for either of them and
      > the cemetary only has the death certificate, which is not helpful because it
      > only asks for state or country of birth and the answer given by my father is
      > Czecho-slovakia. I guess in 1949 and 1952 that was the name of the country
      > of origin.
      >
      > Many thanks,
      >
      > bb
    • Andrea Vangor
      Well, if you have a village of origin in Slovakia as Dr. Q says, then you are in fat city for getting records. Get that marriage record too, that s my advice.
      Message 2 of 21 , Aug 6, 2000
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        Well, if you have a village of origin in Slovakia as Dr. Q says, then you
        are in fat city for getting records. Get that marriage record too, that's
        my advice. It should point you to more leads. And try to figure out which
        port they came from. If you don't know start with New York.


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Bruce Bagin <bbagin@...>
        To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 8:29 PM
        Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help


        > The death certificate shows no social security number for either of them
        and
        > the cemetary only has the death certificate, which is not helpful because
        it
        > only asks for state or country of birth and the answer given by my father
        is
        > Czecho-slovakia. I guess in 1949 and 1952 that was the name of the
        country
        > of origin.
        >
        > Many thanks,
        >
        > bb
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Bruce Bagin
        For about four years. On my fathers baptismal certificate my grandmothers maiden name is given as Mueller not minor. My aunt was born in 1922, when my
        Message 3 of 21 , Aug 6, 2000
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          For about four years. On my fathers baptismal certificate my grandmothers
          maiden name is given as Mueller not minor. My aunt was born in 1922, when
          my grandmother was 41 years old. The 1920 census shows my grandfather as
          fluent in English, but not my grandmother. Yet I don't recall that he had
          any fluency. My recolection is that my father would speak to them in a
          language that he called slovenian. I learned how to read at an early age
          because I could not speak slovenian and was left to read the english
          languange insert of the Slovak Catholic Sokol newspaper.

          I have contacted the SCS in Passiac to see whether they have records of the
          information provided to get the insurance policies,but I got a we'd like
          tohelp you but we're too busy.

          The people at the county courthouse in Milwaukee tell me that they do not
          have any naturalization papers for my grandfather.
          so did NARA Chicago. They must be someplace. The info on the LDS pubs is
          helpful and they have a center about 7 miles from here in Greentree, PA so I
          shall get over there this week.

          I would like to know more about my grandmother. Her mothers maiden name is
          a tongue twister and I wasn't sure whether it is a Slovak name because of
          the spelling. I don't speak the language, but I am going to take some
          classes so that I can defend myself when I get there.

          Many thanks,

          I enjoy reading your posts and I appreciate the information.

          bb

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Judy (& Dr. Joe) Quashnock" <judyq@...>
          To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 11:50 PM
          Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help


          > Bruce,
          >
          > How long have you been searching? Many of us have spent years before
          making any
          > progress. In my case, it was 9 years before I got a copy of the "place"
          for my
          > great grandfather's birth (it was a copy from the church death record in
          > Pennsylvania. It was in hand written script consisting of 10 letters and
          a "~"
          > slightly above and following the last "s"- - - "Hrusov Spis~." This
          turned out
          > to be present day Spišský Hrušov, a small town 10 km east of Spišská Nová
          Ves.
          > I now ancestral data back to 1730.
          >
          > Until this break, the best my remaining relatives could come up with was
          that
          > they came from "Žižkov". An interesting position since they spoke Slovak
          and
          > not Czech; and Jan Žižkov is a Czech/Moravian hero. The name just doesn't
          show
          > up in Slovakia. Interestingly enough "Žižkov" sounds a lot like "Hrušov",
          > especially to someone who was trying to remember a word he heard nearly 80
          years
          > ago when he was 7 years old AND the word was spoken by someone who spoke
          "broken
          > English" with a heavy eastern European accent.
          >
          > Dr. "Q"
          >
          > >Bruce Bagin wrote:
          >
          > > The death certificate shows no social security number for either of them
          and
          > > the cemetary only has the death certificate, which is not helpful
          because it
          > > only asks for state or country of birth and the answer given by my
          father is
          > > Czecho-slovakia. I guess in 1949 and 1952 that was the name of the
          country
          > > of origin.
          > >
          > > Many thanks,
          > >
          > > bb
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Bruce Bagin
          Not so fat. I have the city of origin of Steve Dano, and widow Bagin, their son, my grandfather s step brother came to the US and was told to change surname
          Message 4 of 21 , Aug 6, 2000
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            Not so fat. I have the city of origin of Steve Dano, and widow Bagin, their
            son, my grandfather's step brother came to the US and was told to change
            surname to Danno because of problems with the Postal service.

            I have heard from a Bagin who now lives in Canada, who came from Kamencamy
            which is in the neighborhood. So I feel certain that I'm in the right area,
            but need to perform a bettr search.

            Many thanks,

            bb
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Andrea Vangor" <drav@...>
            To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 12:06 AM
            Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help


            > Well, if you have a village of origin in Slovakia as Dr. Q says, then you
            > are in fat city for getting records. Get that marriage record too, that's
            > my advice. It should point you to more leads. And try to figure out
            which
            > port they came from. If you don't know start with New York.
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Bruce Bagin <bbagin@...>
            > To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
            > Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 8:29 PM
            > Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help
            >
            >
            > > The death certificate shows no social security number for either of them
            > and
            > > the cemetary only has the death certificate, which is not helpful
            because
            > it
            > > only asks for state or country of birth and the answer given by my
            father
            > is
            > > Czecho-slovakia. I guess in 1949 and 1952 that was the name of the
            > country
            > > of origin.
            > >
            > > Many thanks,
            > >
            > > bb
            > > ________________________________________________________________________
            > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • sabinov@webtv.net
            I m a bit confused by your statement nara can t find any record of them . What does this mean? Have you asked the regional archives for the state they were in
            Message 5 of 21 , Aug 7, 2000
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              I'm a bit confused by your statement "nara can't find any record of
              them". What does this mean? Have you asked the regional archives for the
              state they were in for the naturalization papers?
              Have you checked the 1910 census for the state they were in? Have you
              found their arrival on a ship manifest? Some states also have state
              censuses (not federal) after 1920 which are already available, have you
              checked that? Have you checked city directories, church records? Have
              you gotten their obituaries?

              There seems to be an awful lot you can do before you say "nara can't
              find any record of them". Most of these things you can do yourself via
              your local FHC or local genealogy society.
              It takes a little effort, but it's how we all do it.
              Sending for a FOIA request before you do all this is kind of ridiculous
              in my opinion. For one thing, it's going to take a long time, when you
              can do most of these things pretty easily.

              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              Maura Petzolt Mobile Alabama USA
              sabinov@...
              Helpful Hints for Successful Searching
              http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm To
              subscribe/unsubscribe/make changes to your membership to the
              SLOVAK-ROOTS mailing list go to
              http://www.egroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            • John Kozakiewicz
              Maura, I have the same problem. NARA sent me to the Court System where my grandparents lived. It was a hell of a lot of money for them to research it for me,
              Message 6 of 21 , Aug 7, 2000
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                Maura,

                I have the same problem. NARA sent me to the Court System where my
                grandparents lived. It was a hell of a lot of money for them to research it
                for me, so I gave up.

                John Kozakiewicz

                At 06:02 PM 8/7/2000 -0500, you wrote:
                >I'm a bit confused by your statement "nara can't find any record of
                >them". What does this mean? Have you asked the regional archives for the
                >state they were in for the naturalization papers?
                >Have you checked the 1910 census for the state they were in? Have you
                >found their arrival on a ship manifest? Some states also have state
                >censuses (not federal) after 1920 which are already available, have you
                >checked that? Have you checked city directories, church records? Have
                >you gotten their obituaries?
                >
                >There seems to be an awful lot you can do before you say "nara can't
                >find any record of them". Most of these things you can do yourself via
                >your local FHC or local genealogy society.
                >It takes a little effort, but it's how we all do it.
                >Sending for a FOIA request before you do all this is kind of ridiculous
                >in my opinion. For one thing, it's going to take a long time, when you
                >can do most of these things pretty easily.
                >
                >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                >Maura Petzolt Mobile Alabama USA
                >sabinov@...
                >Helpful Hints for Successful Searching
                >http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm To
                >subscribe/unsubscribe/make changes to your membership to the
                >SLOVAK-ROOTS mailing list go to
                > http://www.egroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                >
                >
                >
              • Andrea Vangor
                Likewise. I sent money to Los Angeles Superior Court about six months ago and have heard zip. NARA had nothing. ... From: John Kozakiewicz
                Message 7 of 21 , Aug 7, 2000
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                  Likewise. I sent money to Los Angeles Superior Court about six months ago
                  and have heard zip. NARA had nothing.


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: John Kozakiewicz <johnkay@...>
                  To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 4:34 PM
                  Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help


                  > Maura,
                  >
                  > I have the same problem. NARA sent me to the Court System where my
                  > grandparents lived. It was a hell of a lot of money for them to research
                  it
                  > for me, so I gave up.
                  >
                  > John Kozakiewicz
                  >
                  > At 06:02 PM 8/7/2000 -0500, you wrote:
                  > >I'm a bit confused by your statement "nara can't find any record of
                  > >them". What does this mean? Have you asked the regional archives for the
                  > >state they were in for the naturalization papers?
                  > >Have you checked the 1910 census for the state they were in? Have you
                  > >found their arrival on a ship manifest? Some states also have state
                  > >censuses (not federal) after 1920 which are already available, have you
                  > >checked that? Have you checked city directories, church records? Have
                  > >you gotten their obituaries?
                  > >
                  > >There seems to be an awful lot you can do before you say "nara can't
                  > >find any record of them". Most of these things you can do yourself via
                  > >your local FHC or local genealogy society.
                  > >It takes a little effort, but it's how we all do it.
                  > >Sending for a FOIA request before you do all this is kind of ridiculous
                  > >in my opinion. For one thing, it's going to take a long time, when you
                  > >can do most of these things pretty easily.
                  > >
                  > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  > >Maura Petzolt Mobile Alabama USA
                  > >sabinov@...
                  > >Helpful Hints for Successful Searching
                  > >http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm To
                  > >subscribe/unsubscribe/make changes to your membership to the
                  > >SLOVAK-ROOTS mailing list go to
                  > > http://www.egroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                  > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • sabinov@webtv.net
                  Since no one STILL has made clear what you are asking NARA -for-, I can t really help you. However, I -think- you are talking about naturalization papers,
                  Message 8 of 21 , Aug 7, 2000
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                    Since no one STILL has made clear what you are asking NARA -for-, I
                    can't really help you.

                    However, I -think- you are talking about naturalization papers, which
                    you can easily get by emailing the NARA branch (-not- the main one in
                    DC, who will usually refer you to a local court) and asking them for the
                    info, which they usually charge $10 or less for (and in some cases you
                    can get up to 5 for that $10)

                    In the rare instance where NARA branches do not hold the records, as in
                    one county in PA I was looking for, they will refer you to the court,
                    which should then also charge you very little for. Also, most of these
                    records are microfilmed anyway by the LDS.

                    So first, you need to make clear -what- you are talking about.....
                    because if you don't make it clear or don't tell people the details of
                    what you are talking about, this is what happens.... when people try to
                    help only to be told along the lines of 'but I've done that already".

                    Read the section on How to Write a Successful Query on my Hints page for
                    more help on making your queries more understandable.

                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    Maura Petzolt Mobile Alabama USA
                    sabinov@...
                    Helpful Hints for Successful Searching
                    http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm To
                    subscribe/unsubscribe/make changes to your membership to the
                    SLOVAK-ROOTS mailing list go to
                    http://www.egroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  • Bruce Bagin
                    My email to NARA chicago which handles Milwaukee couldnt find any record of the naturalization of my grandfather, Karol Bagin,who told the census takers in
                    Message 9 of 21 , Aug 7, 2000
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                      My email to NARA chicago which handles Milwaukee couldnt find any record of
                      the naturalization of my grandfather, Karol Bagin,who told the census takers
                      in 1920 that he arived in the US in 1904 and was naturalized in 1916. My
                      contacts with the Milwaukee county clerk of courts have been equally
                      unproductive. I am going to the LDS center here in Pittsburgh and I hope to
                      find more information that way. I have found that it is more difficult than
                      is frequently portrayed, but I havenot quit yet and don't plan to.

                      Bruce Bagin
                      312 Boulevard of the Allies,#600
                      Pittsburgh, PA 15222-1923
                      412-281-1110
                      FAX 412-281-8481
                      email bagin@...


                      ________________________________________________________________________
                      Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
                    • RAHannig00@aol.com
                      I ve been catching up on this thread, and I m not sure I m hitting on the right point. If what I say is not relevent, I m sorry. I just thought this might
                      Message 10 of 21 , Aug 7, 2000
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                        I've been catching up on this thread, and I'm not sure I'm hitting on the
                        right point. If what I say is not relevent, I'm sorry. I just thought this
                        might help.

                        About naturalization papers and NARA. NARA only holds naturalization papers
                        for people who were naturalized in federal courts. People went to the court
                        nearest them, no matter what kind of court it was. If you visit a regional
                        NARA center, they will have nat. records only for that region's federal
                        courts. I was just at NARA NYC this past week, and had a discussion with
                        them about this very thing.
                        I get my relatives' naturalization papers from the INS, the immigration and
                        naturalization service. You need to fill out a form G-639 (Freedom of
                        Information/Privacy Act Request) from the INS, which you can download or
                        request by mail from http://www.ins.gov/graphics/formsfee/index.htm. You
                        need to show proof of death of the subject (obit or certificate etc.). Under
                        section 4, documents desired, you need to state "subject's entire INS file,
                        including Declaration of Intent, Petition for Naturalizaton, and
                        Naturalization Certificate". Otherwise, they may send you only the
                        certificate, which will tell you nothing of the origins or immigration.

                        Again I don't know if I'm barking up the wrong tree. Hope this helps.

                        Robin Hannig
                        Palmer, PA
                      • Andrea Vangor
                        Very helpful information. Thank you. I think they are all dead at the Los Angeles Superior Court. Wonder if they would take a California on-line death
                        Message 11 of 21 , Aug 7, 2000
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                          Very helpful information. Thank you. I think they are all dead at the Los
                          Angeles Superior Court. Wonder if they would take a California on-line
                          death record...

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: <RAHannig00@...>
                          To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
                          Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 7:00 PM
                          Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help


                          > I've been catching up on this thread, and I'm not sure I'm hitting on the
                          > right point. If what I say is not relevent, I'm sorry. I just thought
                          this
                          > might help.
                          >
                          > About naturalization papers and NARA. NARA only holds naturalization
                          papers
                          > for people who were naturalized in federal courts. People went to the
                          court
                          > nearest them, no matter what kind of court it was. If you visit a
                          regional
                          > NARA center, they will have nat. records only for that region's federal
                          > courts. I was just at NARA NYC this past week, and had a discussion with
                          > them about this very thing.
                          > I get my relatives' naturalization papers from the INS, the immigration
                          and
                          > naturalization service. You need to fill out a form G-639 (Freedom of
                          > Information/Privacy Act Request) from the INS, which you can download or
                          > request by mail from http://www.ins.gov/graphics/formsfee/index.htm. You
                          > need to show proof of death of the subject (obit or certificate etc.).
                          Under
                          > section 4, documents desired, you need to state "subject's entire INS
                          file,
                          > including Declaration of Intent, Petition for Naturalizaton, and
                          > Naturalization Certificate". Otherwise, they may send you only the
                          > certificate, which will tell you nothing of the origins or immigration.
                          >
                          > Again I don't know if I'm barking up the wrong tree. Hope this helps.
                          >
                          > Robin Hannig
                          > Palmer, PA
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • RAHannig00@aol.com
                          If your person was born long enough ago that they ought to be dead by now anyway, I would
                          Message 12 of 21 , Aug 8, 2000
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                            << Wonder if they would take a California on-line
                            death record... >>
                            If your person was born long enough ago that they ought to be dead by now
                            anyway, I would think the INS should accept the certificate you found online.
                            But that's just my guess. Afterall, an obituary is not an official document
                            either. When I've used obits, I didn't even cite the source of the obits.
                            Since the request is free (except for the stamp), I guess it can't hurt to
                            try. They are very good about confirming receipt of your request. I'm sure
                            they will tell you if you need better documentation.
                            Robin Hannig
                            Palmer, PA
                          • Andrea Vangor
                            Thanks. I m going to try it. Now to figure out where this thread started... too much genealogy going on around here! ... From: To:
                            Message 13 of 21 , Aug 8, 2000
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                              Thanks. I'm going to try it. Now to figure out where this thread
                              started... too much genealogy going on around here!

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: <RAHannig00@...>
                              To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
                              Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 7:17 AM
                              Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help


                              > << Wonder if they would take a California on-line
                              > death record... >>
                              > If your person was born long enough ago that they ought to be dead by now
                              > anyway, I would think the INS should accept the certificate you found
                              online.
                              > But that's just my guess. Afterall, an obituary is not an official
                              document
                              > either. When I've used obits, I didn't even cite the source of the obits.
                              > Since the request is free (except for the stamp), I guess it can't hurt to
                              > try. They are very good about confirming receipt of your request. I'm
                              sure
                              > they will tell you if you need better documentation.
                              > Robin Hannig
                              > Palmer, PA
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
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