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Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help

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  • Bruce Bagin
    The death certificate shows no social security number for either of them and the cemetary only has the death certificate, which is not helpful because it only
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 6, 2000
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      The death certificate shows no social security number for either of them and
      the cemetary only has the death certificate, which is not helpful because it
      only asks for state or country of birth and the answer given by my father is
      Czecho-slovakia. I guess in 1949 and 1952 that was the name of the country
      of origin.

      Many thanks,

      bb
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    • Judy (& Dr. Joe) Quashnock
      Bruce, How long have you been searching? Many of us have spent years before making any progress. In my case, it was 9 years before I got a copy of the
      Message 2 of 21 , Aug 6, 2000
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        Bruce,

        How long have you been searching? Many of us have spent years before making any
        progress. In my case, it was 9 years before I got a copy of the "place" for my
        great grandfather's birth (it was a copy from the church death record in
        Pennsylvania. It was in hand written script consisting of 10 letters and a "~"
        slightly above and following the last "s"- - - "Hrusov Spis~." This turned out
        to be present day Spišský Hrušov, a small town 10 km east of Spišská Nová Ves.
        I now ancestral data back to 1730.

        Until this break, the best my remaining relatives could come up with was that
        they came from "Žižkov". An interesting position since they spoke Slovak and
        not Czech; and Jan Žižkov is a Czech/Moravian hero. The name just doesn't show
        up in Slovakia. Interestingly enough "Žižkov" sounds a lot like "Hrušov",
        especially to someone who was trying to remember a word he heard nearly 80 years
        ago when he was 7 years old AND the word was spoken by someone who spoke "broken
        English" with a heavy eastern European accent.

        Dr. "Q"

        >Bruce Bagin wrote:

        > The death certificate shows no social security number for either of them and
        > the cemetary only has the death certificate, which is not helpful because it
        > only asks for state or country of birth and the answer given by my father is
        > Czecho-slovakia. I guess in 1949 and 1952 that was the name of the country
        > of origin.
        >
        > Many thanks,
        >
        > bb
      • Andrea Vangor
        Well, if you have a village of origin in Slovakia as Dr. Q says, then you are in fat city for getting records. Get that marriage record too, that s my advice.
        Message 3 of 21 , Aug 6, 2000
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          Well, if you have a village of origin in Slovakia as Dr. Q says, then you
          are in fat city for getting records. Get that marriage record too, that's
          my advice. It should point you to more leads. And try to figure out which
          port they came from. If you don't know start with New York.


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Bruce Bagin <bbagin@...>
          To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 8:29 PM
          Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help


          > The death certificate shows no social security number for either of them
          and
          > the cemetary only has the death certificate, which is not helpful because
          it
          > only asks for state or country of birth and the answer given by my father
          is
          > Czecho-slovakia. I guess in 1949 and 1952 that was the name of the
          country
          > of origin.
          >
          > Many thanks,
          >
          > bb
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Bruce Bagin
          For about four years. On my fathers baptismal certificate my grandmothers maiden name is given as Mueller not minor. My aunt was born in 1922, when my
          Message 4 of 21 , Aug 6, 2000
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            For about four years. On my fathers baptismal certificate my grandmothers
            maiden name is given as Mueller not minor. My aunt was born in 1922, when
            my grandmother was 41 years old. The 1920 census shows my grandfather as
            fluent in English, but not my grandmother. Yet I don't recall that he had
            any fluency. My recolection is that my father would speak to them in a
            language that he called slovenian. I learned how to read at an early age
            because I could not speak slovenian and was left to read the english
            languange insert of the Slovak Catholic Sokol newspaper.

            I have contacted the SCS in Passiac to see whether they have records of the
            information provided to get the insurance policies,but I got a we'd like
            tohelp you but we're too busy.

            The people at the county courthouse in Milwaukee tell me that they do not
            have any naturalization papers for my grandfather.
            so did NARA Chicago. They must be someplace. The info on the LDS pubs is
            helpful and they have a center about 7 miles from here in Greentree, PA so I
            shall get over there this week.

            I would like to know more about my grandmother. Her mothers maiden name is
            a tongue twister and I wasn't sure whether it is a Slovak name because of
            the spelling. I don't speak the language, but I am going to take some
            classes so that I can defend myself when I get there.

            Many thanks,

            I enjoy reading your posts and I appreciate the information.

            bb

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Judy (& Dr. Joe) Quashnock" <judyq@...>
            To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 11:50 PM
            Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help


            > Bruce,
            >
            > How long have you been searching? Many of us have spent years before
            making any
            > progress. In my case, it was 9 years before I got a copy of the "place"
            for my
            > great grandfather's birth (it was a copy from the church death record in
            > Pennsylvania. It was in hand written script consisting of 10 letters and
            a "~"
            > slightly above and following the last "s"- - - "Hrusov Spis~." This
            turned out
            > to be present day Spišský Hrušov, a small town 10 km east of Spišská Nová
            Ves.
            > I now ancestral data back to 1730.
            >
            > Until this break, the best my remaining relatives could come up with was
            that
            > they came from "Žižkov". An interesting position since they spoke Slovak
            and
            > not Czech; and Jan Žižkov is a Czech/Moravian hero. The name just doesn't
            show
            > up in Slovakia. Interestingly enough "Žižkov" sounds a lot like "Hrušov",
            > especially to someone who was trying to remember a word he heard nearly 80
            years
            > ago when he was 7 years old AND the word was spoken by someone who spoke
            "broken
            > English" with a heavy eastern European accent.
            >
            > Dr. "Q"
            >
            > >Bruce Bagin wrote:
            >
            > > The death certificate shows no social security number for either of them
            and
            > > the cemetary only has the death certificate, which is not helpful
            because it
            > > only asks for state or country of birth and the answer given by my
            father is
            > > Czecho-slovakia. I guess in 1949 and 1952 that was the name of the
            country
            > > of origin.
            > >
            > > Many thanks,
            > >
            > > bb
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Bruce Bagin
            Not so fat. I have the city of origin of Steve Dano, and widow Bagin, their son, my grandfather s step brother came to the US and was told to change surname
            Message 5 of 21 , Aug 6, 2000
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              Not so fat. I have the city of origin of Steve Dano, and widow Bagin, their
              son, my grandfather's step brother came to the US and was told to change
              surname to Danno because of problems with the Postal service.

              I have heard from a Bagin who now lives in Canada, who came from Kamencamy
              which is in the neighborhood. So I feel certain that I'm in the right area,
              but need to perform a bettr search.

              Many thanks,

              bb
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Andrea Vangor" <drav@...>
              To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 12:06 AM
              Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help


              > Well, if you have a village of origin in Slovakia as Dr. Q says, then you
              > are in fat city for getting records. Get that marriage record too, that's
              > my advice. It should point you to more leads. And try to figure out
              which
              > port they came from. If you don't know start with New York.
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Bruce Bagin <bbagin@...>
              > To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
              > Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 8:29 PM
              > Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help
              >
              >
              > > The death certificate shows no social security number for either of them
              > and
              > > the cemetary only has the death certificate, which is not helpful
              because
              > it
              > > only asks for state or country of birth and the answer given by my
              father
              > is
              > > Czecho-slovakia. I guess in 1949 and 1952 that was the name of the
              > country
              > > of origin.
              > >
              > > Many thanks,
              > >
              > > bb
              > > ________________________________________________________________________
              > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • sabinov@webtv.net
              I m a bit confused by your statement nara can t find any record of them . What does this mean? Have you asked the regional archives for the state they were in
              Message 6 of 21 , Aug 7, 2000
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                I'm a bit confused by your statement "nara can't find any record of
                them". What does this mean? Have you asked the regional archives for the
                state they were in for the naturalization papers?
                Have you checked the 1910 census for the state they were in? Have you
                found their arrival on a ship manifest? Some states also have state
                censuses (not federal) after 1920 which are already available, have you
                checked that? Have you checked city directories, church records? Have
                you gotten their obituaries?

                There seems to be an awful lot you can do before you say "nara can't
                find any record of them". Most of these things you can do yourself via
                your local FHC or local genealogy society.
                It takes a little effort, but it's how we all do it.
                Sending for a FOIA request before you do all this is kind of ridiculous
                in my opinion. For one thing, it's going to take a long time, when you
                can do most of these things pretty easily.

                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                Maura Petzolt Mobile Alabama USA
                sabinov@...
                Helpful Hints for Successful Searching
                http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm To
                subscribe/unsubscribe/make changes to your membership to the
                SLOVAK-ROOTS mailing list go to
                http://www.egroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              • John Kozakiewicz
                Maura, I have the same problem. NARA sent me to the Court System where my grandparents lived. It was a hell of a lot of money for them to research it for me,
                Message 7 of 21 , Aug 7, 2000
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                  Maura,

                  I have the same problem. NARA sent me to the Court System where my
                  grandparents lived. It was a hell of a lot of money for them to research it
                  for me, so I gave up.

                  John Kozakiewicz

                  At 06:02 PM 8/7/2000 -0500, you wrote:
                  >I'm a bit confused by your statement "nara can't find any record of
                  >them". What does this mean? Have you asked the regional archives for the
                  >state they were in for the naturalization papers?
                  >Have you checked the 1910 census for the state they were in? Have you
                  >found their arrival on a ship manifest? Some states also have state
                  >censuses (not federal) after 1920 which are already available, have you
                  >checked that? Have you checked city directories, church records? Have
                  >you gotten their obituaries?
                  >
                  >There seems to be an awful lot you can do before you say "nara can't
                  >find any record of them". Most of these things you can do yourself via
                  >your local FHC or local genealogy society.
                  >It takes a little effort, but it's how we all do it.
                  >Sending for a FOIA request before you do all this is kind of ridiculous
                  >in my opinion. For one thing, it's going to take a long time, when you
                  >can do most of these things pretty easily.
                  >
                  >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  >Maura Petzolt Mobile Alabama USA
                  >sabinov@...
                  >Helpful Hints for Successful Searching
                  >http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm To
                  >subscribe/unsubscribe/make changes to your membership to the
                  >SLOVAK-ROOTS mailing list go to
                  > http://www.egroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                  >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Andrea Vangor
                  Likewise. I sent money to Los Angeles Superior Court about six months ago and have heard zip. NARA had nothing. ... From: John Kozakiewicz
                  Message 8 of 21 , Aug 7, 2000
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                    Likewise. I sent money to Los Angeles Superior Court about six months ago
                    and have heard zip. NARA had nothing.


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: John Kozakiewicz <johnkay@...>
                    To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 4:34 PM
                    Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help


                    > Maura,
                    >
                    > I have the same problem. NARA sent me to the Court System where my
                    > grandparents lived. It was a hell of a lot of money for them to research
                    it
                    > for me, so I gave up.
                    >
                    > John Kozakiewicz
                    >
                    > At 06:02 PM 8/7/2000 -0500, you wrote:
                    > >I'm a bit confused by your statement "nara can't find any record of
                    > >them". What does this mean? Have you asked the regional archives for the
                    > >state they were in for the naturalization papers?
                    > >Have you checked the 1910 census for the state they were in? Have you
                    > >found their arrival on a ship manifest? Some states also have state
                    > >censuses (not federal) after 1920 which are already available, have you
                    > >checked that? Have you checked city directories, church records? Have
                    > >you gotten their obituaries?
                    > >
                    > >There seems to be an awful lot you can do before you say "nara can't
                    > >find any record of them". Most of these things you can do yourself via
                    > >your local FHC or local genealogy society.
                    > >It takes a little effort, but it's how we all do it.
                    > >Sending for a FOIA request before you do all this is kind of ridiculous
                    > >in my opinion. For one thing, it's going to take a long time, when you
                    > >can do most of these things pretty easily.
                    > >
                    > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    > >Maura Petzolt Mobile Alabama USA
                    > >sabinov@...
                    > >Helpful Hints for Successful Searching
                    > >http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm To
                    > >subscribe/unsubscribe/make changes to your membership to the
                    > >SLOVAK-ROOTS mailing list go to
                    > > http://www.egroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                    > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • sabinov@webtv.net
                    Since no one STILL has made clear what you are asking NARA -for-, I can t really help you. However, I -think- you are talking about naturalization papers,
                    Message 9 of 21 , Aug 7, 2000
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                      Since no one STILL has made clear what you are asking NARA -for-, I
                      can't really help you.

                      However, I -think- you are talking about naturalization papers, which
                      you can easily get by emailing the NARA branch (-not- the main one in
                      DC, who will usually refer you to a local court) and asking them for the
                      info, which they usually charge $10 or less for (and in some cases you
                      can get up to 5 for that $10)

                      In the rare instance where NARA branches do not hold the records, as in
                      one county in PA I was looking for, they will refer you to the court,
                      which should then also charge you very little for. Also, most of these
                      records are microfilmed anyway by the LDS.

                      So first, you need to make clear -what- you are talking about.....
                      because if you don't make it clear or don't tell people the details of
                      what you are talking about, this is what happens.... when people try to
                      help only to be told along the lines of 'but I've done that already".

                      Read the section on How to Write a Successful Query on my Hints page for
                      more help on making your queries more understandable.

                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      Maura Petzolt Mobile Alabama USA
                      sabinov@...
                      Helpful Hints for Successful Searching
                      http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm To
                      subscribe/unsubscribe/make changes to your membership to the
                      SLOVAK-ROOTS mailing list go to
                      http://www.egroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    • Bruce Bagin
                      My email to NARA chicago which handles Milwaukee couldnt find any record of the naturalization of my grandfather, Karol Bagin,who told the census takers in
                      Message 10 of 21 , Aug 7, 2000
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                        My email to NARA chicago which handles Milwaukee couldnt find any record of
                        the naturalization of my grandfather, Karol Bagin,who told the census takers
                        in 1920 that he arived in the US in 1904 and was naturalized in 1916. My
                        contacts with the Milwaukee county clerk of courts have been equally
                        unproductive. I am going to the LDS center here in Pittsburgh and I hope to
                        find more information that way. I have found that it is more difficult than
                        is frequently portrayed, but I havenot quit yet and don't plan to.

                        Bruce Bagin
                        312 Boulevard of the Allies,#600
                        Pittsburgh, PA 15222-1923
                        412-281-1110
                        FAX 412-281-8481
                        email bagin@...


                        ________________________________________________________________________
                        Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
                      • RAHannig00@aol.com
                        I ve been catching up on this thread, and I m not sure I m hitting on the right point. If what I say is not relevent, I m sorry. I just thought this might
                        Message 11 of 21 , Aug 7, 2000
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                          I've been catching up on this thread, and I'm not sure I'm hitting on the
                          right point. If what I say is not relevent, I'm sorry. I just thought this
                          might help.

                          About naturalization papers and NARA. NARA only holds naturalization papers
                          for people who were naturalized in federal courts. People went to the court
                          nearest them, no matter what kind of court it was. If you visit a regional
                          NARA center, they will have nat. records only for that region's federal
                          courts. I was just at NARA NYC this past week, and had a discussion with
                          them about this very thing.
                          I get my relatives' naturalization papers from the INS, the immigration and
                          naturalization service. You need to fill out a form G-639 (Freedom of
                          Information/Privacy Act Request) from the INS, which you can download or
                          request by mail from http://www.ins.gov/graphics/formsfee/index.htm. You
                          need to show proof of death of the subject (obit or certificate etc.). Under
                          section 4, documents desired, you need to state "subject's entire INS file,
                          including Declaration of Intent, Petition for Naturalizaton, and
                          Naturalization Certificate". Otherwise, they may send you only the
                          certificate, which will tell you nothing of the origins or immigration.

                          Again I don't know if I'm barking up the wrong tree. Hope this helps.

                          Robin Hannig
                          Palmer, PA
                        • Andrea Vangor
                          Very helpful information. Thank you. I think they are all dead at the Los Angeles Superior Court. Wonder if they would take a California on-line death
                          Message 12 of 21 , Aug 7, 2000
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                            Very helpful information. Thank you. I think they are all dead at the Los
                            Angeles Superior Court. Wonder if they would take a California on-line
                            death record...

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: <RAHannig00@...>
                            To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
                            Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 7:00 PM
                            Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help


                            > I've been catching up on this thread, and I'm not sure I'm hitting on the
                            > right point. If what I say is not relevent, I'm sorry. I just thought
                            this
                            > might help.
                            >
                            > About naturalization papers and NARA. NARA only holds naturalization
                            papers
                            > for people who were naturalized in federal courts. People went to the
                            court
                            > nearest them, no matter what kind of court it was. If you visit a
                            regional
                            > NARA center, they will have nat. records only for that region's federal
                            > courts. I was just at NARA NYC this past week, and had a discussion with
                            > them about this very thing.
                            > I get my relatives' naturalization papers from the INS, the immigration
                            and
                            > naturalization service. You need to fill out a form G-639 (Freedom of
                            > Information/Privacy Act Request) from the INS, which you can download or
                            > request by mail from http://www.ins.gov/graphics/formsfee/index.htm. You
                            > need to show proof of death of the subject (obit or certificate etc.).
                            Under
                            > section 4, documents desired, you need to state "subject's entire INS
                            file,
                            > including Declaration of Intent, Petition for Naturalizaton, and
                            > Naturalization Certificate". Otherwise, they may send you only the
                            > certificate, which will tell you nothing of the origins or immigration.
                            >
                            > Again I don't know if I'm barking up the wrong tree. Hope this helps.
                            >
                            > Robin Hannig
                            > Palmer, PA
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • RAHannig00@aol.com
                            If your person was born long enough ago that they ought to be dead by now anyway, I would
                            Message 13 of 21 , Aug 8, 2000
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                              << Wonder if they would take a California on-line
                              death record... >>
                              If your person was born long enough ago that they ought to be dead by now
                              anyway, I would think the INS should accept the certificate you found online.
                              But that's just my guess. Afterall, an obituary is not an official document
                              either. When I've used obits, I didn't even cite the source of the obits.
                              Since the request is free (except for the stamp), I guess it can't hurt to
                              try. They are very good about confirming receipt of your request. I'm sure
                              they will tell you if you need better documentation.
                              Robin Hannig
                              Palmer, PA
                            • Andrea Vangor
                              Thanks. I m going to try it. Now to figure out where this thread started... too much genealogy going on around here! ... From: To:
                              Message 14 of 21 , Aug 8, 2000
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Thanks. I'm going to try it. Now to figure out where this thread
                                started... too much genealogy going on around here!

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: <RAHannig00@...>
                                To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
                                Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 7:17 AM
                                Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help


                                > << Wonder if they would take a California on-line
                                > death record... >>
                                > If your person was born long enough ago that they ought to be dead by now
                                > anyway, I would think the INS should accept the certificate you found
                                online.
                                > But that's just my guess. Afterall, an obituary is not an official
                                document
                                > either. When I've used obits, I didn't even cite the source of the obits.
                                > Since the request is free (except for the stamp), I guess it can't hurt to
                                > try. They are very good about confirming receipt of your request. I'm
                                sure
                                > they will tell you if you need better documentation.
                                > Robin Hannig
                                > Palmer, PA
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
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