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Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help

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  • Bruce Bagin
    The death certificate shows no social security number for either of them and the cemetary only has the death certificate, which is not helpful because it only
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 6 8:29 PM
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      The death certificate shows no social security number for either of them and
      the cemetary only has the death certificate, which is not helpful because it
      only asks for state or country of birth and the answer given by my father is
      Czecho-slovakia. I guess in 1949 and 1952 that was the name of the country
      of origin.

      Many thanks,

      bb
      ________________________________________________________________________
      Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
    • Judy (& Dr. Joe) Quashnock
      Boles^ov is only 15 km northeast of Trenc^in, this a very large city there should be a number of records available for Bolesov. Check the LDS site:
      Message 2 of 21 , Aug 6 8:30 PM
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        Boles^ov is only 15 km northeast of Trenc^in, this a very large city there
        should be a number of records available for Bolesov.

        Check the LDS site:

        http://www.familysearch.org/fhlc/supermainframeset.asp?display=titlefilmnotes&columns=*%2C180%2C0&titleno=756574&disp=Cirkevn%E1_matrika

        They list 3 microfilms covering 1700-1896.

        Dr. "Q"

        Bruce Bagin wrote:

        > My father said that they spoke slovenian or german. They attended St
        > Stephens Catholic Church in MIlwaukee, WI on walnut street. the church was
        > closed on the late 40' or early 50's and my payments to the achivist of the
        > archdiocese has not produced any record of marriage, church attendance, or
        > funerals. I'm stuck. My next move is a FOIA request to INS; however if it
        > is too costly for them to conduct a search I may not be able to afford it.
        >
        > I learned that My great grandmother remarried when her husband died and
        > Married Steve Dano in or around Bolesov, but I have not found anything
        > further.
        >
        > there are only two living relatives in the US and they have been helpful
        > with the danno family, but when Steve Dano, JR. came to the US, he settled
        > in northern wisconsin and had little to do with his step brother,my
        > grandfather so the information stops.
        >
        > Many thanks,
        >
        > YOur help is appreciated.
        >
        > >From: "Andrea Vangor" <drav@...>
        > >Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com
        > >To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
        > >Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help
        > >Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 18:49:05 -0700
        > >
        > >What language did they speak? Which church did they attend? Do you have
        > >any living relatives who can tell you?
        > >
        > >
        > >----- Original Message -----
        > >From: Bruce Bagin <bbagin@...>
        > >To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
        > >Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 6:16 PM
        > >Subject: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help
        > >
        > >
        > > > What is the next step in finding my ancestors and can anyone confirm
        > >that
        > > > the names are slovak?
        > > >
        > > > from the death certificates of my grandparents who lived and died in
        > > > Milwaukee Wisconsin, I have learned the following:
        > > >
        > > > My grandfather KAROL BAGIN was born in CZECHO-SLOVAKIA on September 10,
        > >1877
        > > > to MICHAEL BAGIN and ELIZABETH KRALIK.
        > > >
        > > > My grandmother MARY BAGIN was born in Czecho-slovakia on June 15, 1881
        > >to
        > > > JOSEPH MINAR and EVA ZSIKAVSZKY.
        > > >
        > > > ANY HELP IS MOST WELCOME AND GREATLY APPRECIATED.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Bruce Bagin
        > > > 312 Boulevard of the Allies,#600
        > > > Pittsburgh, PA 15222-1923
        > > > 412-281-1110
        > > > FAX 412-281-8481
        > > > email bagin@...
      • Judy (& Dr. Joe) Quashnock
        Bruce, How long have you been searching? Many of us have spent years before making any progress. In my case, it was 9 years before I got a copy of the
        Message 3 of 21 , Aug 6 8:50 PM
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          Bruce,

          How long have you been searching? Many of us have spent years before making any
          progress. In my case, it was 9 years before I got a copy of the "place" for my
          great grandfather's birth (it was a copy from the church death record in
          Pennsylvania. It was in hand written script consisting of 10 letters and a "~"
          slightly above and following the last "s"- - - "Hrusov Spis~." This turned out
          to be present day Spišský Hrušov, a small town 10 km east of Spišská Nová Ves.
          I now ancestral data back to 1730.

          Until this break, the best my remaining relatives could come up with was that
          they came from "Žižkov". An interesting position since they spoke Slovak and
          not Czech; and Jan Žižkov is a Czech/Moravian hero. The name just doesn't show
          up in Slovakia. Interestingly enough "Žižkov" sounds a lot like "Hrušov",
          especially to someone who was trying to remember a word he heard nearly 80 years
          ago when he was 7 years old AND the word was spoken by someone who spoke "broken
          English" with a heavy eastern European accent.

          Dr. "Q"

          >Bruce Bagin wrote:

          > The death certificate shows no social security number for either of them and
          > the cemetary only has the death certificate, which is not helpful because it
          > only asks for state or country of birth and the answer given by my father is
          > Czecho-slovakia. I guess in 1949 and 1952 that was the name of the country
          > of origin.
          >
          > Many thanks,
          >
          > bb
        • Andrea Vangor
          Well, if you have a village of origin in Slovakia as Dr. Q says, then you are in fat city for getting records. Get that marriage record too, that s my advice.
          Message 4 of 21 , Aug 6 9:06 PM
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            Well, if you have a village of origin in Slovakia as Dr. Q says, then you
            are in fat city for getting records. Get that marriage record too, that's
            my advice. It should point you to more leads. And try to figure out which
            port they came from. If you don't know start with New York.


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Bruce Bagin <bbagin@...>
            To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 8:29 PM
            Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help


            > The death certificate shows no social security number for either of them
            and
            > the cemetary only has the death certificate, which is not helpful because
            it
            > only asks for state or country of birth and the answer given by my father
            is
            > Czecho-slovakia. I guess in 1949 and 1952 that was the name of the
            country
            > of origin.
            >
            > Many thanks,
            >
            > bb
            > ________________________________________________________________________
            > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Bruce Bagin
            For about four years. On my fathers baptismal certificate my grandmothers maiden name is given as Mueller not minor. My aunt was born in 1922, when my
            Message 5 of 21 , Aug 6 10:02 PM
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              For about four years. On my fathers baptismal certificate my grandmothers
              maiden name is given as Mueller not minor. My aunt was born in 1922, when
              my grandmother was 41 years old. The 1920 census shows my grandfather as
              fluent in English, but not my grandmother. Yet I don't recall that he had
              any fluency. My recolection is that my father would speak to them in a
              language that he called slovenian. I learned how to read at an early age
              because I could not speak slovenian and was left to read the english
              languange insert of the Slovak Catholic Sokol newspaper.

              I have contacted the SCS in Passiac to see whether they have records of the
              information provided to get the insurance policies,but I got a we'd like
              tohelp you but we're too busy.

              The people at the county courthouse in Milwaukee tell me that they do not
              have any naturalization papers for my grandfather.
              so did NARA Chicago. They must be someplace. The info on the LDS pubs is
              helpful and they have a center about 7 miles from here in Greentree, PA so I
              shall get over there this week.

              I would like to know more about my grandmother. Her mothers maiden name is
              a tongue twister and I wasn't sure whether it is a Slovak name because of
              the spelling. I don't speak the language, but I am going to take some
              classes so that I can defend myself when I get there.

              Many thanks,

              I enjoy reading your posts and I appreciate the information.

              bb

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Judy (& Dr. Joe) Quashnock" <judyq@...>
              To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 11:50 PM
              Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help


              > Bruce,
              >
              > How long have you been searching? Many of us have spent years before
              making any
              > progress. In my case, it was 9 years before I got a copy of the "place"
              for my
              > great grandfather's birth (it was a copy from the church death record in
              > Pennsylvania. It was in hand written script consisting of 10 letters and
              a "~"
              > slightly above and following the last "s"- - - "Hrusov Spis~." This
              turned out
              > to be present day Spišský Hrušov, a small town 10 km east of Spišská Nová
              Ves.
              > I now ancestral data back to 1730.
              >
              > Until this break, the best my remaining relatives could come up with was
              that
              > they came from "Žižkov". An interesting position since they spoke Slovak
              and
              > not Czech; and Jan Žižkov is a Czech/Moravian hero. The name just doesn't
              show
              > up in Slovakia. Interestingly enough "Žižkov" sounds a lot like "Hrušov",
              > especially to someone who was trying to remember a word he heard nearly 80
              years
              > ago when he was 7 years old AND the word was spoken by someone who spoke
              "broken
              > English" with a heavy eastern European accent.
              >
              > Dr. "Q"
              >
              > >Bruce Bagin wrote:
              >
              > > The death certificate shows no social security number for either of them
              and
              > > the cemetary only has the death certificate, which is not helpful
              because it
              > > only asks for state or country of birth and the answer given by my
              father is
              > > Czecho-slovakia. I guess in 1949 and 1952 that was the name of the
              country
              > > of origin.
              > >
              > > Many thanks,
              > >
              > > bb
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Bruce Bagin
              Not so fat. I have the city of origin of Steve Dano, and widow Bagin, their son, my grandfather s step brother came to the US and was told to change surname
              Message 6 of 21 , Aug 6 10:09 PM
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                Not so fat. I have the city of origin of Steve Dano, and widow Bagin, their
                son, my grandfather's step brother came to the US and was told to change
                surname to Danno because of problems with the Postal service.

                I have heard from a Bagin who now lives in Canada, who came from Kamencamy
                which is in the neighborhood. So I feel certain that I'm in the right area,
                but need to perform a bettr search.

                Many thanks,

                bb
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Andrea Vangor" <drav@...>
                To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 12:06 AM
                Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help


                > Well, if you have a village of origin in Slovakia as Dr. Q says, then you
                > are in fat city for getting records. Get that marriage record too, that's
                > my advice. It should point you to more leads. And try to figure out
                which
                > port they came from. If you don't know start with New York.
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Bruce Bagin <bbagin@...>
                > To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
                > Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 8:29 PM
                > Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help
                >
                >
                > > The death certificate shows no social security number for either of them
                > and
                > > the cemetary only has the death certificate, which is not helpful
                because
                > it
                > > only asks for state or country of birth and the answer given by my
                father
                > is
                > > Czecho-slovakia. I guess in 1949 and 1952 that was the name of the
                > country
                > > of origin.
                > >
                > > Many thanks,
                > >
                > > bb
                > > ________________________________________________________________________
                > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • sabinov@webtv.net
                I m a bit confused by your statement nara can t find any record of them . What does this mean? Have you asked the regional archives for the state they were in
                Message 7 of 21 , Aug 7 4:02 PM
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                  I'm a bit confused by your statement "nara can't find any record of
                  them". What does this mean? Have you asked the regional archives for the
                  state they were in for the naturalization papers?
                  Have you checked the 1910 census for the state they were in? Have you
                  found their arrival on a ship manifest? Some states also have state
                  censuses (not federal) after 1920 which are already available, have you
                  checked that? Have you checked city directories, church records? Have
                  you gotten their obituaries?

                  There seems to be an awful lot you can do before you say "nara can't
                  find any record of them". Most of these things you can do yourself via
                  your local FHC or local genealogy society.
                  It takes a little effort, but it's how we all do it.
                  Sending for a FOIA request before you do all this is kind of ridiculous
                  in my opinion. For one thing, it's going to take a long time, when you
                  can do most of these things pretty easily.

                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  Maura Petzolt Mobile Alabama USA
                  sabinov@...
                  Helpful Hints for Successful Searching
                  http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm To
                  subscribe/unsubscribe/make changes to your membership to the
                  SLOVAK-ROOTS mailing list go to
                  http://www.egroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                • John Kozakiewicz
                  Maura, I have the same problem. NARA sent me to the Court System where my grandparents lived. It was a hell of a lot of money for them to research it for me,
                  Message 8 of 21 , Aug 7 4:34 PM
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                    Maura,

                    I have the same problem. NARA sent me to the Court System where my
                    grandparents lived. It was a hell of a lot of money for them to research it
                    for me, so I gave up.

                    John Kozakiewicz

                    At 06:02 PM 8/7/2000 -0500, you wrote:
                    >I'm a bit confused by your statement "nara can't find any record of
                    >them". What does this mean? Have you asked the regional archives for the
                    >state they were in for the naturalization papers?
                    >Have you checked the 1910 census for the state they were in? Have you
                    >found their arrival on a ship manifest? Some states also have state
                    >censuses (not federal) after 1920 which are already available, have you
                    >checked that? Have you checked city directories, church records? Have
                    >you gotten their obituaries?
                    >
                    >There seems to be an awful lot you can do before you say "nara can't
                    >find any record of them". Most of these things you can do yourself via
                    >your local FHC or local genealogy society.
                    >It takes a little effort, but it's how we all do it.
                    >Sending for a FOIA request before you do all this is kind of ridiculous
                    >in my opinion. For one thing, it's going to take a long time, when you
                    >can do most of these things pretty easily.
                    >
                    >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    >Maura Petzolt Mobile Alabama USA
                    >sabinov@...
                    >Helpful Hints for Successful Searching
                    >http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm To
                    >subscribe/unsubscribe/make changes to your membership to the
                    >SLOVAK-ROOTS mailing list go to
                    > http://www.egroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                    >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Andrea Vangor
                    Likewise. I sent money to Los Angeles Superior Court about six months ago and have heard zip. NARA had nothing. ... From: John Kozakiewicz
                    Message 9 of 21 , Aug 7 4:34 PM
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                      Likewise. I sent money to Los Angeles Superior Court about six months ago
                      and have heard zip. NARA had nothing.


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: John Kozakiewicz <johnkay@...>
                      To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
                      Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 4:34 PM
                      Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help


                      > Maura,
                      >
                      > I have the same problem. NARA sent me to the Court System where my
                      > grandparents lived. It was a hell of a lot of money for them to research
                      it
                      > for me, so I gave up.
                      >
                      > John Kozakiewicz
                      >
                      > At 06:02 PM 8/7/2000 -0500, you wrote:
                      > >I'm a bit confused by your statement "nara can't find any record of
                      > >them". What does this mean? Have you asked the regional archives for the
                      > >state they were in for the naturalization papers?
                      > >Have you checked the 1910 census for the state they were in? Have you
                      > >found their arrival on a ship manifest? Some states also have state
                      > >censuses (not federal) after 1920 which are already available, have you
                      > >checked that? Have you checked city directories, church records? Have
                      > >you gotten their obituaries?
                      > >
                      > >There seems to be an awful lot you can do before you say "nara can't
                      > >find any record of them". Most of these things you can do yourself via
                      > >your local FHC or local genealogy society.
                      > >It takes a little effort, but it's how we all do it.
                      > >Sending for a FOIA request before you do all this is kind of ridiculous
                      > >in my opinion. For one thing, it's going to take a long time, when you
                      > >can do most of these things pretty easily.
                      > >
                      > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      > >Maura Petzolt Mobile Alabama USA
                      > >sabinov@...
                      > >Helpful Hints for Successful Searching
                      > >http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm To
                      > >subscribe/unsubscribe/make changes to your membership to the
                      > >SLOVAK-ROOTS mailing list go to
                      > > http://www.egroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                      > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • sabinov@webtv.net
                      Since no one STILL has made clear what you are asking NARA -for-, I can t really help you. However, I -think- you are talking about naturalization papers,
                      Message 10 of 21 , Aug 7 5:45 PM
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                        Since no one STILL has made clear what you are asking NARA -for-, I
                        can't really help you.

                        However, I -think- you are talking about naturalization papers, which
                        you can easily get by emailing the NARA branch (-not- the main one in
                        DC, who will usually refer you to a local court) and asking them for the
                        info, which they usually charge $10 or less for (and in some cases you
                        can get up to 5 for that $10)

                        In the rare instance where NARA branches do not hold the records, as in
                        one county in PA I was looking for, they will refer you to the court,
                        which should then also charge you very little for. Also, most of these
                        records are microfilmed anyway by the LDS.

                        So first, you need to make clear -what- you are talking about.....
                        because if you don't make it clear or don't tell people the details of
                        what you are talking about, this is what happens.... when people try to
                        help only to be told along the lines of 'but I've done that already".

                        Read the section on How to Write a Successful Query on my Hints page for
                        more help on making your queries more understandable.

                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        Maura Petzolt Mobile Alabama USA
                        sabinov@...
                        Helpful Hints for Successful Searching
                        http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm To
                        subscribe/unsubscribe/make changes to your membership to the
                        SLOVAK-ROOTS mailing list go to
                        http://www.egroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      • Bruce Bagin
                        My email to NARA chicago which handles Milwaukee couldnt find any record of the naturalization of my grandfather, Karol Bagin,who told the census takers in
                        Message 11 of 21 , Aug 7 6:35 PM
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                          My email to NARA chicago which handles Milwaukee couldnt find any record of
                          the naturalization of my grandfather, Karol Bagin,who told the census takers
                          in 1920 that he arived in the US in 1904 and was naturalized in 1916. My
                          contacts with the Milwaukee county clerk of courts have been equally
                          unproductive. I am going to the LDS center here in Pittsburgh and I hope to
                          find more information that way. I have found that it is more difficult than
                          is frequently portrayed, but I havenot quit yet and don't plan to.

                          Bruce Bagin
                          312 Boulevard of the Allies,#600
                          Pittsburgh, PA 15222-1923
                          412-281-1110
                          FAX 412-281-8481
                          email bagin@...


                          ________________________________________________________________________
                          Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
                        • RAHannig00@aol.com
                          I ve been catching up on this thread, and I m not sure I m hitting on the right point. If what I say is not relevent, I m sorry. I just thought this might
                          Message 12 of 21 , Aug 7 7:00 PM
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                            I've been catching up on this thread, and I'm not sure I'm hitting on the
                            right point. If what I say is not relevent, I'm sorry. I just thought this
                            might help.

                            About naturalization papers and NARA. NARA only holds naturalization papers
                            for people who were naturalized in federal courts. People went to the court
                            nearest them, no matter what kind of court it was. If you visit a regional
                            NARA center, they will have nat. records only for that region's federal
                            courts. I was just at NARA NYC this past week, and had a discussion with
                            them about this very thing.
                            I get my relatives' naturalization papers from the INS, the immigration and
                            naturalization service. You need to fill out a form G-639 (Freedom of
                            Information/Privacy Act Request) from the INS, which you can download or
                            request by mail from http://www.ins.gov/graphics/formsfee/index.htm. You
                            need to show proof of death of the subject (obit or certificate etc.). Under
                            section 4, documents desired, you need to state "subject's entire INS file,
                            including Declaration of Intent, Petition for Naturalizaton, and
                            Naturalization Certificate". Otherwise, they may send you only the
                            certificate, which will tell you nothing of the origins or immigration.

                            Again I don't know if I'm barking up the wrong tree. Hope this helps.

                            Robin Hannig
                            Palmer, PA
                          • Andrea Vangor
                            Very helpful information. Thank you. I think they are all dead at the Los Angeles Superior Court. Wonder if they would take a California on-line death
                            Message 13 of 21 , Aug 7 7:35 PM
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                              Very helpful information. Thank you. I think they are all dead at the Los
                              Angeles Superior Court. Wonder if they would take a California on-line
                              death record...

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: <RAHannig00@...>
                              To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
                              Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 7:00 PM
                              Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help


                              > I've been catching up on this thread, and I'm not sure I'm hitting on the
                              > right point. If what I say is not relevent, I'm sorry. I just thought
                              this
                              > might help.
                              >
                              > About naturalization papers and NARA. NARA only holds naturalization
                              papers
                              > for people who were naturalized in federal courts. People went to the
                              court
                              > nearest them, no matter what kind of court it was. If you visit a
                              regional
                              > NARA center, they will have nat. records only for that region's federal
                              > courts. I was just at NARA NYC this past week, and had a discussion with
                              > them about this very thing.
                              > I get my relatives' naturalization papers from the INS, the immigration
                              and
                              > naturalization service. You need to fill out a form G-639 (Freedom of
                              > Information/Privacy Act Request) from the INS, which you can download or
                              > request by mail from http://www.ins.gov/graphics/formsfee/index.htm. You
                              > need to show proof of death of the subject (obit or certificate etc.).
                              Under
                              > section 4, documents desired, you need to state "subject's entire INS
                              file,
                              > including Declaration of Intent, Petition for Naturalizaton, and
                              > Naturalization Certificate". Otherwise, they may send you only the
                              > certificate, which will tell you nothing of the origins or immigration.
                              >
                              > Again I don't know if I'm barking up the wrong tree. Hope this helps.
                              >
                              > Robin Hannig
                              > Palmer, PA
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • RAHannig00@aol.com
                              If your person was born long enough ago that they ought to be dead by now anyway, I would
                              Message 14 of 21 , Aug 8 7:17 AM
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                                << Wonder if they would take a California on-line
                                death record... >>
                                If your person was born long enough ago that they ought to be dead by now
                                anyway, I would think the INS should accept the certificate you found online.
                                But that's just my guess. Afterall, an obituary is not an official document
                                either. When I've used obits, I didn't even cite the source of the obits.
                                Since the request is free (except for the stamp), I guess it can't hurt to
                                try. They are very good about confirming receipt of your request. I'm sure
                                they will tell you if you need better documentation.
                                Robin Hannig
                                Palmer, PA
                              • Andrea Vangor
                                Thanks. I m going to try it. Now to figure out where this thread started... too much genealogy going on around here! ... From: To:
                                Message 15 of 21 , Aug 8 10:53 PM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Thanks. I'm going to try it. Now to figure out where this thread
                                  started... too much genealogy going on around here!

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: <RAHannig00@...>
                                  To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
                                  Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 7:17 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Help


                                  > << Wonder if they would take a California on-line
                                  > death record... >>
                                  > If your person was born long enough ago that they ought to be dead by now
                                  > anyway, I would think the INS should accept the certificate you found
                                  online.
                                  > But that's just my guess. Afterall, an obituary is not an official
                                  document
                                  > either. When I've used obits, I didn't even cite the source of the obits.
                                  > Since the request is free (except for the stamp), I guess it can't hurt to
                                  > try. They are very good about confirming receipt of your request. I'm
                                  sure
                                  > they will tell you if you need better documentation.
                                  > Robin Hannig
                                  > Palmer, PA
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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