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RE: [S-R] Let's finish off the wine discussion!

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  • Lisa Marzonie
    Thank you, your encouragement is appropriate and well taken here. I give you a new commandment: love one another. As my love has been for you, so must your
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 7, 2008
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      Thank you, your encouragement is appropriate and well taken here.


      "I give you a new commandment: love one another. As my love has been for you, so must your love be for each other." (Jn 13.34)

      ________________________________
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > From: bill.tarkulich@...
      > Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 15:09:23 +0000
      > Subject: [S-R] Let's finish off the wine discussion!
      >
      >
      > Our Genealogy forum has now had 24 messages on Slovak wine. I think
      > it's time to get back onto genealogy, . Feel free to add ONE or TWO
      > more messages to close off the topic.
      >
      > May I suggest continuing this discussion at Slovak-World? I've enjoyed
      > the discussion, but S-W is a more appropriate forum and encompassing
      > discussions about a culture have a wider (and more interested) audience.
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Slovak-World/
      >
      > I do this because we have 892 SLOVAK-ROOTS members, who have signed up
      > because this is about genealogy.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Bill
      >
      >
      >

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    • christine mackara
      You are probably right, Bill, but I have so enjoyed the discussion about the wine. especially the article that Helen just posted. It describes the area,
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 7, 2008
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        You are probably right, Bill, but I have so enjoyed the discussion about the wine. especially the article that Helen just posted. It describes the area, gives a little history and generally makes me glad ,there is this Slovak -Roots List
        Thank you All, Christine


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Bill Tarkulich
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:09 AM
        Subject: [S-R] Let's finish off the wine discussion!

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ben Sorensen
        Hi Bill, I believe that sometimes, as it seems that the two groups are so inter-connected, we forget where we are writing! I have seen a few repeats from one
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 8, 2008
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          Hi Bill,
          I believe that sometimes, as it seems that the two groups are so inter-connected, we forget where we are writing! I have seen a few repeats from one group to the other, as well as conversations meandering from one to the other...
          I agree whole-heartedly that we should have the discussion continue on Slovak World.
           
          I have a question for you all here though. In Germany (the Second Empire), there were some areas that kept both Family Registers and House Registers (a list of people who owned/lived in certain houses over the years). Do we have such a practise at the same time in Slovakia that we have found? These and the "Status animarum" from Catholic parishes do not get much "air play" here, but they could (IF they exist) really help with the genealogy.
           
          Ben

          --- On Tue, 10/7/08, Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:

          From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
          Subject: [S-R] Let's finish off the wine discussion!
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tuesday, October 7, 2008, 11:09 AM






          Our Genealogy forum has now had 24 messages on Slovak wine. I think
          it's time to get back onto genealogy, . Feel free to add ONE or TWO
          more messages to close off the topic.

          May I suggest continuing this discussion at Slovak-World? I've enjoyed
          the discussion, but S-W is a more appropriate forum and encompassing
          discussions about a culture have a wider (and more interested) audience.
          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Slovak- World/

          I do this because we have 892 SLOVAK-ROOTS members, who have signed up
          because this is about genealogy.

          Thanks,
          Bill


















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Julie Michutka
          OK, I m going to show my ignorance here: what is the status animarum ? Not the translation, but the records... what info do they provide? I ve run across at
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 8, 2008
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            OK, I'm going to show my ignorance here: what is the "status
            animarum"? Not the translation, but the records... what info do they
            provide?

            I've run across at least one village where the priest kept a register
            of households at the end of the parish records, one or two pages per
            address, anywhere from 2 to 4 generations in any given household. My
            impression was that he would double-enter any b, m, d-- once in the
            appropriate register, and then again in the pertinent household. I
            was doing a genealogy for a friend from that village, and wow, the
            household registers were so helpful! But it doesn't seem to have been
            standard practice, at least not in church records. Vlad Bohinc might
            be able to tell you more.

            In the German situation, were the family and house registers kept by
            the church, civil authorities, or other (literate local busy-bodies,
            maybe)?

            Julie Michutka
            jmm@...

            On Oct 8, 2008, at 8:24 AM, Ben Sorensen wrote:
            >
            > I have a question for you all here though. In Germany (the Second
            > Empire), there were some areas that kept both Family Registers and
            > House Registers (a list of people who owned/lived in certain houses
            > over the years). Do we have such a practise at the same time in
            > Slovakia that we have found? These and the "Status animarum" from
            > Catholic parishes do not get much "air play" here, but they could
            > (IF they exist) really help with the genealogy.
          • Ben Sorensen
            Hello, A status animarum was a census that Pope Paul V decreed must be kept- but it is imperfect at best. It gives you names of people in good standing in the
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 8, 2008
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              Hello,
              A status animarum was a census that Pope Paul V decreed must be kept- but it is imperfect at best. It gives you names of people in good standing in the parish, and usually in family groups, but hardly ever any event dates. The same Pope was the one who decreed that all parishes keep family registers.
               
              The household register covers about 30% of the German population during the Second Empire-and maybe even less today as so much is lost. It was kept by either Parish or Civil officials... sometimes both. But, the German examples I have seen sometimes list the help too- though not often. :-) I am sure where you see where I think a breakthrough may be for someone- IF they exist also in Slovakia (why wouldn't they? then again, why would they?) What you found in that village is a wonderful thing, and I just never see it discussed here. :-P That is why I am asking....
              Ben

              --- On Wed, 10/8/08, Julie Michutka <jmm@...> wrote:

              From: Julie Michutka <jmm@...>
              Subject: [S-R] family registers and status animarum
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Wednesday, October 8, 2008, 9:14 AM






              OK, I'm going to show my ignorance here: what is the "status
              animarum"? Not the translation, but the records... what info do they
              provide?

              I've run across at least one village where the priest kept a register
              of households at the end of the parish records, one or two pages per
              address, anywhere from 2 to 4 generations in any given household. My
              impression was that he would double-enter any b, m, d-- once in the
              appropriate register, and then again in the pertinent household. I
              was doing a genealogy for a friend from that village, and wow, the
              household registers were so helpful! But it doesn't seem to have been
              standard practice, at least not in church records. Vlad Bohinc might
              be able to tell you more.

              In the German situation, were the family and house registers kept by
              the church, civil authorities, or other (literate local busy-bodies,
              maybe)?

              Julie Michutka
              jmm@pathbridge. net

              On Oct 8, 2008, at 8:24 AM, Ben Sorensen wrote:
              >
              > I have a question for you all here though. In Germany (the Second
              > Empire), there were some areas that kept both Family Registers and
              > House Registers (a list of people who owned/lived in certain houses
              > over the years). Do we have such a practise at the same time in
              > Slovakia that we have found? These and the "Status animarum" from
              > Catholic parishes do not get much "air play" here, but they could
              > (IF they exist) really help with the genealogy.

















              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Michael Mojher
              Here is the link to the Hungarian Archives where you can read more than I present below. www.mol.gov.hu/index I highlighted two things in red. A Status
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 8, 2008
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                Here is the link to the Hungarian Archives where you can read more than I present below. www.mol.gov.hu/index

                I highlighted two things in red. A Status Animarum was taken in Hungary. The other, "with the exception of the northern counties" seems to indicate that the counties that are now in Slovakia were not registered in of the five types of registers with the implementation of Rituale Romanum in 1625. From personal experience with my own genealogy records I have found registrations in the Plavnica, Saros County records going back to the 1600's. So, I am not sure just which "northern counties" were left out.

                "It was Pope Pius IV who, as a result of the deliberations of the Council of Trent, ordered the introduction of regular registration in 1563. In Hungary, in the case of the Roman Catholic Church the Council of Nagyszombat ordered the introduction and maintenance of parish registers at the beginning of the Counter-Reformation in 1611, though sparse registrations occurred at some places before that time, too. A great change occurred in 1625, when Archbishop of Esztergom Péter Pázmány rendered obligatory the Rituale Romanum, issued by Pope Paul VS., in the whole country. The Rituale Romanum introduced five types of registers: registers of christening, marriage, death, confirmation and the so-called Status Animarum recording the census of the population according to the households and families at the time of the Easter Holy Communion. In the 17th century the Rituale Romanum was published in three more editions: in 1656, 1672 and 1692. Although from the 1630's the correct making up and the keeping of parish registers were regularly supervised on the occasions of canonical visitations (Visitationes Canonicae), the continuous and general registering could start in Great Hungary - with the exception of the northern counties - only after driving out the Turks. In 1822 the ecclesiastical authorities enforced the making of alphabetical name lists which eased researching to a great extent. The Act 23 of 1827 ordered the keeping of parish registers in two copies, mainly for security reasons. Duplicate copies are stored in the competent local archives, with the exclusion of copies from the central diocese of Kalocsa-Kecskemét. Those duplicates are kept in the Archiepiscopal Archives of Kalocsa-Kecskemét. Besides, parish registers are stored in the Archives of the Evangelical Congregation of Szarvas, the Baptist Archives of Budapest and the Archives of the Orthodox Diocese of Buda set up in Szentendre, as well. Regarding Protestant churches, the full powers to keep registers was granted by Emperor Joseph Habsburg II in 1785. However, at some special localities (loca articularia), registration had begun much earlier. In Hungary, the regular and compulsory registration of Israelite population was introduced as late as the Bach Era (July 1851), but in that case, too, there were places where registration had begun long before that date."
                Michael Mojher


                From: Ben Sorensen
                Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 6:31 AM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [S-R] family registers and status animarum


                Hello,
                A status animarum was a census that Pope Paul V decreed must be kept- but it is imperfect at best. It gives you names of people in good standing in the parish, and usually in family groups, but hardly ever any event dates. The same Pope was the one who decreed that all parishes keep family registers.

                The household register covers about 30% of the German population during the Second Empire-and maybe even less today as so much is lost. It was kept by either Parish or Civil officials... sometimes both. But, the German examples I have seen sometimes list the help too- though not often. :-) I am sure where you see where I think a breakthrough may be for someone- IF they exist also in Slovakia (why wouldn't they? then again, why would they?) What you found in that village is a wonderful thing, and I just never see it discussed here. :-P That is why I am asking....
                Ben

                --- On Wed, 10/8/08, Julie Michutka <jmm@...> wrote:

                From: Julie Michutka <jmm@...>
                Subject: [S-R] family registers and status animarum
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Wednesday, October 8, 2008, 9:14 AM

                OK, I'm going to show my ignorance here: what is the "status
                animarum"? Not the translation, but the records... what info do they
                provide?

                I've run across at least one village where the priest kept a register
                of households at the end of the parish records, one or two pages per
                address, anywhere from 2 to 4 generations in any given household. My
                impression was that he would double-enter any b, m, d-- once in the
                appropriate register, and then again in the pertinent household. I
                was doing a genealogy for a friend from that village, and wow, the
                household registers were so helpful! But it doesn't seem to have been
                standard practice, at least not in church records. Vlad Bohinc might
                be able to tell you more.

                In the German situation, were the family and house registers kept by
                the church, civil authorities, or other (literate local busy-bodies,
                maybe)?

                Julie Michutka
                jmm@pathbridge. net

                On Oct 8, 2008, at 8:24 AM, Ben Sorensen wrote:
                >
                > I have a question for you all here though. In Germany (the Second
                > Empire), there were some areas that kept both Family Registers and
                > House Registers (a list of people who owned/lived in certain houses
                > over the years). Do we have such a practise at the same time in
                > Slovakia that we have found? These and the "Status animarum" from
                > Catholic parishes do not get much "air play" here, but they could
                > (IF they exist) really help with the genealogy.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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