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Re: [S-R] Hungarian/Slovak Party

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  • Ron Matviyak
    ... Hungarian producers. ... I understand that dispute was resolved a year or two ago and Slovakia s portion of the historic Tokay region has the right to
    Message 1 of 19 , Oct 6, 2008
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      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Nick Holcz <nickh@...> wrote:
      >
      > There > has been legal argument about using the name Tokay by non
      Hungarian producers.
      >
      > Nick

      I understand that dispute was resolved a year or two ago and
      Slovakia's portion of the historic Tokay region has the right to
      produce and market Tokay wine. The region is more or less due south
      of Trebisov on the Hungarian border. For anyone really interested, I
      suggest you search for 'tokay region' and 'tokay slovakia' under
      Google Images.

      Ron
      >
    • helene cincebeaux
      Hi Michael - you are bringing back memories of an incredible Tokaj wine tasting in a charming stone building in the Slovak Tokaj region with one of our tour
      Message 2 of 19 , Oct 6, 2008
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        Hi Michael - you are bringing back memories of an incredible Tokaj wine tasting in a charming stone building in the Slovak Tokaj region with one of our tour groups - we tasted 17 different Tokajs beginning with the driest on up and ended with the 18th, the rare Azu.This can only be made in years when conditions are absolotuely right and the grapes rot on the vine - it called boryitis and makes this most amazing wine.
         
        Tho we only took tiny sips of all 18 and ate a large meal after, everyone fell asleep on the trip back. Something about being in a cool building and then going into the heat outside after all that wine - took its toll
         
        but it was a never-to-be forgotten experience!!!!
         
        The wine caves there are so charming - there are actually 16 miles or so and all underground - we were told that the villagers hid from the invading Turks there far below ground.
         
        The caves are carved from Tufa - a porous stone which seems to provide perfect conditions for wine making and wine storage;  if you can't finish your wine you toss it at the wall and it is reabsorbed and likely ends up in the wine again.
         
        The wine making villages here are utterly charming in a little visited (by foreign tourists) region on the Hungarian border southeast of Kosice. It's lovely on the Hungarian side too; tho somewhat more developed. With the recent publicity surrounding the Tokaj name I expect more tourists to follow.
         
        helene

        --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:

        From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Hungarian/Slovak Party - Tokaji Aszu
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, October 5, 2008, 9:03 PM






        On my last four trips to Slovakia I have always made a trip to the Tokaj wine region. A cousin had arranged a private tasting and tour at Zlaty Strapec winery in Vinicky on the first trip. There are 6 levels of sweetness for the Tokaj wine. Because of a conflict with the Hungarian Tokaj wineries the EU prevented Slovakia from making the number 2 Tokaj. That ruling has been rescinded and they can do so once again. I found this out during my trip in July. I also found out that they did not stop making the number 2, they just did not market it. The wineries gave it a new name and sold it at the wineries.
        Dr. Joe in his e-mail state, "The higher the number, the better the wine." This is not necessarily so. The more puttony used, the sweeter the wine. Each Tokaj and its level of sweetness has a culinary usefulness. In which case 'better' is a relative term. I found all six of the Tokaj wines very good. The only thing that went up with number was its cost.
        Living in California and working as a pastry chef in a restaurant allows me access to wine purveyors. I purchased for a pre-trip party some Tokaj wine and a bottle Eszencia. They were all Hungarian made. The half liter number 5 Tokaj was wholesale for around $25. The 250 ml / one-quarter liter bottle of Eszencia was $125. Or $375 a bottle, wholesale. After Mr. Nagy, the winemaker, at Zlaty Strapec winery explained how this 'essence' of Tokaj was made I understood why it is one of the world rarest wines and most expensive. Yes, it was worth the price.
        Michael Mojher

        From: Janet Kozlay
        Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:15 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
        Subject: RE: [S-R] Hungarian/Slovak Party - Tokaji Aszu

        The Tokaji aszú wine actually only goes from 3 to 6 "putt" (puttonyos =
        barrels), the higher the number being the sweeter. However, when you can
        find it in the U.S. it is nearly all 5. The last time I checked, even the 5
        putt was $80.00 here. The 6 putt and the Eszencia, which is even sweeter,
        are extremely difficult to find here . . . maybe in New York.

        This wine has been famous for centuries. King Louis XIV called it "the king
        of wines and the wine of kings." Its distinctive flavor is caused by a
        fungus that attacks the ripened grapes. It is so expensive because of the
        way it is produced-the vines are permitted to grow only a small number of
        grape clusters and the grapes are harvested one grape at a time.

        Dr. Joe, I hope you open that bottle at a very important and festive
        occasion. Eszencia has been described as "liquid gold."

        Janet

        _____

        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com] On
        Behalf Of Dr. Joe Q
        Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 5:28 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Hungarian/Slovak Party

        Tokaj is also made in a very small area of Slovakia, most of it comes from
        Hungary. It is expensive relative to other wines. It comes in small bottles
        of about 500 mL. I have a 1993 Tokaji Aszueszecia that I bought in Budapest
        in 2001 for about 25,000 forint, at that time the exchange was about 300 HUF
        / USD so that was around $80!

        The Tokaji from Hungary also carry a classification of "punt" which relates
        to the quality and implies the number baskets of grapes used to make it. I
        have the seen the numbers run from 1 to 5, but there may b higher
        classifiactions. The higher the number, the better the wine.

        Tokaj is sweet like sauternes and is intended to be drunk in small glasses
        like those used for sherry or port.

        Dr. "Q"

        --- On Sun, 10/5/08, helene cincebeaux <helenezx@yahoo.
        <mailto:helenezx% 40yahoo.com> com> wrote:

        > From: helene cincebeaux <helenezx@yahoo. <mailto:helenezx% 40yahoo.com>
        com>
        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Hungarian/Slovak Party
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK- ROOTS%40yahoogro ups.com> yahoogroups. com
        > Date: Sunday, October 5, 2008, 12:02 PM
        > How about Tokaj wine - there are 17 kinds and then the rare
        > Azu.
        > It comes from southeastern Slovakia and northeastern
        > Hungary.
        >
        > helene
        >
        > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Diana Boggs
        > <ssmudsville@ <mailto:ssmudsville %40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> wrote:
        >
        > From: Diana Boggs <ssmudsville@ <mailto:ssmudsville %40yahoo. com>
        yahoo.com>
        > Subject: [S-R] Hungarian/Slovak Party
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK- ROOTS%40yahoogro ups.com> yahoogroups. com
        > Date: Sunday, October 5, 2008, 9:36 AM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > What sorts of wine & cheese is appropriate fo a
        > Hungarian/Slovak party?
        > Diana

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • johnqadam
        ... which relates to the quality and implies the number baskets of grapes used to make it. I have the seen the numbers run from 1 to 5, but there may b higher
        Message 3 of 19 , Oct 6, 2008
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          >>> The Tokaji from Hungary also carry a classification of "punt"
          which relates to the quality and implies the number baskets of grapes
          used to make it. I have the seen the numbers run from 1 to 5, but
          there may b higher classifiactions. The higher the number, the
          better the wine. <<<

          Slight enhancement to the explanantion. The higher the number, the
          SWEETER the wine. Sugar content is not necessarily an indicator of
          quality.

          Tokaji wine is made from native grapes Furmint and Harslevelu as well
          as Muscat. There are some dry whites and late harvest sweet wines and
          also the richer style, botrytized dessert wines carrying the
          words "Aszú" or "Puttonyos" on the label.

          "Aszú" means botrytis, the noble rot that plays a part in
          concentrating the sugars, flavor, and acidity of the
          grapes. "Puttonyos" reveals how sweet and rich the wine is, and tells
          the quantity of sweet must used in making the wine.

          Traditionally, the botrytized grapes are mashed and then added to a
          dry wine made from the previous vintage. How much of the botrytized
          must is added determines the sweetness, traditionally defined by the
          number of puttony added to a 136 liter barrel of must. 3 puttonyos is
          the least sweet, and six the sweetest (3 puttonyos means about 75 kg
          of must were added to 136 liters of wine, while 6 would mean adding
          150 kg of must.)

          The mixture then referments and is allowed to age in humid caves for
          several years.

          Southeastern Slovakia has a few Tokay wineries. I prefer the dry
          variant.
        • Caye Caswick
            I will have to take a pen and paper to my apple cellar -- when the cousins friend from Kosice came to visit, he brought 4 bottles of Tokaj wines -- have no
          Message 4 of 19 , Oct 6, 2008
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            I will have to take a pen and paper to my apple cellar -- when the cousins' friend from Kosice came to visit, he brought 4 bottles of Tokaj wines -- have no idea what's down there, but something tells me it needs to be locked.
             
            Once I remember to write it down and post it -- I'd appreciate it if one of our Tokaj afficianados can explain what I'm storing.  Thanks!
             
            (Might have to bring a little to Pittsburgh and share, I'm not much of a wine drinker myself.)
             
             
             
            Caye


            --- On Mon, 10/6/08, johnqadam <johnqadam@...> wrote:

            From: johnqadam <johnqadam@...>
            Subject: [S-R] Tokay/Tokaji wines
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 8:13 AM






            >>> The Tokaji from Hungary also carry a classification of "punt"
            which relates to the quality and implies the number baskets of grapes
            used to make it. I have the seen the numbers run from 1 to 5, but
            there may b higher classifiactions. The higher the number, the
            better the wine. <<<

            Slight enhancement to the explanantion. The higher the number, the
            SWEETER the wine. Sugar content is not necessarily an indicator of
            quality.

            Tokaji wine is made from native grapes Furmint and Harslevelu as well
            as Muscat. There are some dry whites and late harvest sweet wines and
            also the richer style, botrytized dessert wines carrying the
            words "Aszú" or "Puttonyos" on the label.

            "Aszú" means botrytis, the noble rot that plays a part in
            concentrating the sugars, flavor, and acidity of the
            grapes. "Puttonyos" reveals how sweet and rich the wine is, and tells
            the quantity of sweet must used in making the wine.

            Traditionally, the botrytized grapes are mashed and then added to a
            dry wine made from the previous vintage. How much of the botrytized
            must is added determines the sweetness, traditionally defined by the
            number of puttony added to a 136 liter barrel of must. 3 puttonyos is
            the least sweet, and six the sweetest (3 puttonyos means about 75 kg
            of must were added to 136 liters of wine, while 6 would mean adding
            150 kg of must.)

            The mixture then referments and is allowed to age in humid caves for
            several years.

            Southeastern Slovakia has a few Tokay wineries. I prefer the dry
            variant.


















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • johnqadam
            ... of a wine drinker myself.)
            Message 5 of 19 , Oct 6, 2008
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              >>> (Might have to bring a little to Pittsburgh and share, I'm not much
              of a wine drinker myself.)<<<

              I was looking for a reason to go to PIT, aside from Helene's party.
              Your Tokay might just do it!

              We spent a couple of hours in a Slovak Tokay cave with the winemaker
              just one year ago.

              BTW, we have about 175 wines in the cellar.
            • Caye Caswick
                too bad those aren t 175 beers, I d make a trip to see YOU.   Caye   ... From: johnqadam Subject: Re: [S-R] Tokay/Tokaji wines To:
              Message 6 of 19 , Oct 6, 2008
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                too bad those aren't 175 beers, I'd make a trip to see YOU.
                 

                Caye
                 


                --- On Mon, 10/6/08, johnqadam <johnqadam@...> wrote:

                From: johnqadam <johnqadam@...>
                Subject: Re: [S-R] Tokay/Tokaji wines
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 9:23 AM






                >>> (Might have to bring a little to Pittsburgh and share, I'm not much
                of a wine drinker myself.)<<<

                I was looking for a reason to go to PIT, aside from Helene's party.
                Your Tokay might just do it!

                We spent a couple of hours in a Slovak Tokay cave with the winemaker
                just one year ago.

                BTW, we have about 175 wines in the cellar.


















                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Michael Mojher
                I am very fortunate that I have a cousin who is the Dekan of the Roman Catholic Cathedral in Trebisov. He oversees churches in 125 surrounding villages. In the
                Message 7 of 19 , Oct 6, 2008
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                  I am very fortunate that I have a cousin who is the Dekan of the Roman Catholic Cathedral in Trebisov. He oversees churches in 125 surrounding villages. In the five years he has been in Trebisov he has gotten to know all of the winemakers in the Slovakia Tokaj wine region. My great pleasure is when he invites me to go pay a visit to one. It is a special occasion when you get to sit with the winemaker and have a private tasting.
                  Slovak Spectator's travel issues each year seem to have some article on Tokaj wines (Hungary spells it Tokaji). Here are links to a few.
                  From Slovak Spectator, Visit to a Tokaj Winery - http://travel.spectator.sk/articles/292/ , A Tale of Two Tokaj Wineries - http://travel.spectator.sk/articles/1067/a_tale_of_two_tokaj_wineries,
                  How Tokaj Is Made - http://travel.spectator.sk/articles/1066/how_tokaj_is_made, Slovak Grape Varieties - http://travel.spectator.sk/articles/1061/slovak_grape_varieties, How to Read a Slovak Wine Label - http://travel.spectator.sk/articles/1063/how_to_read_a_slovak_wine_label
                  Michael Mojher

                  From: Caye Caswick
                  Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 7:30 AM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Tokay/Tokaji wines



                  too bad those aren't 175 beers, I'd make a trip to see YOU.


                  Caye


                  --- On Mon, 10/6/08, johnqadam <johnqadam@...> wrote:

                  From: johnqadam <johnqadam@...>
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Tokay/Tokaji wines
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 9:23 AM

                  >>> (Might have to bring a little to Pittsburgh and share, I'm not much
                  of a wine drinker myself.)<<<

                  I was looking for a reason to go to PIT, aside from Helene's party.
                  Your Tokay might just do it!

                  We spent a couple of hours in a Slovak Tokay cave with the winemaker
                  just one year ago.

                  BTW, we have about 175 wines in the cellar.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • PAULA BYRD
                  Caye, I m with you, I d take a beer any day befroe the wine. Paula To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.comFrom: ccaswick@yahoo.comDate: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 07:30:45
                  Message 8 of 19 , Oct 6, 2008
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                    Caye,

                    I'm with you, I'd take a beer any day befroe the wine.

                    Paula



                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.comFrom: ccaswick@...: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 07:30:45 -0700Subject: Re: [S-R] Tokay/Tokaji wines




                    too bad those aren't 175 beers, I'd make a trip to see YOU. Caye --- On Mon, 10/6/08, johnqadam <johnqadam@...> wrote:From: johnqadam <johnqadam@...>Subject: Re: [S-R] Tokay/Tokaji winesTo: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.comDate: Monday, October 6, 2008, 9:23 AM>>> (Might have to bring a little to Pittsburgh and share, I'm not much of a wine drinker myself.)<<<I was looking for a reason to go to PIT, aside from Helene's party. Your Tokay might just do it!We spent a couple of hours in a Slovak Tokay cave with the winemaker just one year ago.BTW, we have about 175 wines in the cellar.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Dr. Joe Q
                    I believe that the putna has to do with the amount of older Tokay that is put in with the newly fermenting grapes. So the more barrels, the sweeter the wine
                    Message 9 of 19 , Oct 6, 2008
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                      I believe that the putna has to do with the amount of older Tokay that is put in with the newly fermenting grapes. So the more barrels, the sweeter the wine and the more it costs because it uses already produced wine.

                      The bottle I have, it is to be opened in a few weeks on the 95 birthday of my father!

                      Dr. "Q

                      --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Janet Kozlay <kozlay@...> wrote:

                      > From: Janet Kozlay <kozlay@...>
                      > Subject: RE: [S-R] Hungarian/Slovak Party - Tokaji Aszu
                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Sunday, October 5, 2008, 7:15 PM
                      > The Tokaji aszú wine actually only goes from 3 to 6
                      > “putt” (puttonyos =
                      > barrels), the higher the number being the sweeter. However,
                      > when you can
                      > find it in the U.S. it is nearly all 5. The last time I
                      > checked, even the 5
                      > putt was $80.00 here. The 6 putt and the Eszencia, which is
                      > even sweeter,
                      > are extremely difficult to find here . . . maybe in New
                      > York.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > This wine has been famous for centuries. King Louis XIV
                      > called it “the king
                      > of wines and the wine of kings.” Its distinctive flavor
                      > is caused by a
                      > fungus that attacks the ripened grapes. It is so expensive
                      > because of the
                      > way it is produced—the vines are permitted to grow only a
                      > small number of
                      > grape clusters and the grapes are harvested one grape at a
                      > time.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Dr. Joe, I hope you open that bottle at a very important
                      > and festive
                      > occasion. Eszencia has been described as “liquid gold.”
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Janet
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > _____
                      >
                      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                      > Behalf Of Dr. Joe Q
                      > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 5:28 PM
                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Hungarian/Slovak Party
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Tokaj is also made in a very small area of Slovakia, most
                      > of it comes from
                      > Hungary. It is expensive relative to other wines. It comes
                      > in small bottles
                      > of about 500 mL. I have a 1993 Tokaji Aszueszecia that I
                      > bought in Budapest
                      > in 2001 for about 25,000 forint, at that time the exchange
                      > was about 300 HUF
                      > / USD so that was around $80!
                      >
                      > The Tokaji from Hungary also carry a classification of
                      > "punt" which relates
                      > to the quality and implies the number baskets of grapes
                      > used to make it. I
                      > have the seen the numbers run from 1 to 5, but there may b
                      > higher
                      > classifications. The higher the number, the better the
                      > wine.
                      >
                      > Tokaj is sweet like sauternes and is intended to be drunk
                      > in small glasses
                      > like those used for sherry or port.
                      >
                      > Dr. "Q"
                    • Michael Mojher
                      Dr. Joe Q, Here are some paragraphs from the making of Tokaj wine from the Slovak Spectator article. When the right amount of noble rot pierces a grape s
                      Message 10 of 19 , Oct 6, 2008
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                        Dr. Joe Q,
                        Here are some paragraphs from the making of Tokaj wine from the Slovak Spectator article.
                        "When the right amount of noble rot pierces a grape's skin, the rot saps the grape's moisture without rotting its juices.

                        The shriveled grape that results (cibebas in Slovak, Aszú in Hungarian) has an immense concentration of flavor. It's the key ingredient in Tokaj. But conditions are not always right for cibebas, which is why Tokaj wine is not produced every year. Even when conditions are right, noble rot strikes only certain grape bunches - in some cases only certain grapes. That means cibebas must be handpicked, which drives up prices.

                        When noble rot has done its job, the cibebas are crushed and added to freshly fermented wine made from undamaged (or unimproved) grapes. The mixture macerates for 24 to 48 hours, and is pressed, filtered, and placed into wood barrels stored in cellars for aging.

                        The cellars are Tokaj's final oddity. Dug into the side of hills starting in the 17th century (supposedly to hide aging wine from marauding Turks), they are ripe grounds for another kind of fungus. A thick black mold that grows on the walls seeps into the barrels and contributes to the wild and wonderful taste of Tokaj.
                        Note: Tokaj wine bottles are numbered from three to six. The ratings indicate the number of barrels of cibebas added to wine made from regular grapes. The higher the rating, the sweeter, smoother and more expensive the wine."



                        From: Dr. Joe Q
                        Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 7:50 PM
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [S-R] Hungarian/Slovak Party - Tokaji Aszu


                        I believe that the putna has to do with the amount of older Tokay that is put in with the newly fermenting grapes. So the more barrels, the sweeter the wine and the more it costs because it uses already produced wine.

                        The bottle I have, it is to be opened in a few weeks on the 95 birthday of my father!

                        Dr. "Q

                        --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Janet Kozlay <kozlay@...> wrote:

                        > From: Janet Kozlay <kozlay@...>
                        > Subject: RE: [S-R] Hungarian/Slovak Party - Tokaji Aszu
                        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > Date: Sunday, October 5, 2008, 7:15 PM
                        > The Tokaji aszú wine actually only goes from 3 to 6
                        > “putt” (puttonyos =
                        > barrels), the higher the number being the sweeter. However,
                        > when you can
                        > find it in the U.S. it is nearly all 5. The last time I
                        > checked, even the 5
                        > putt was $80.00 here. The 6 putt and the Eszencia, which is
                        > even sweeter,
                        > are extremely difficult to find here . . . maybe in New
                        > York.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > This wine has been famous for centuries. King Louis XIV
                        > called it “the king
                        > of wines and the wine of kings.” Its distinctive flavor
                        > is caused by a
                        > fungus that attacks the ripened grapes. It is so expensive
                        > because of the
                        > way it is produced—the vines are permitted to grow only a
                        > small number of
                        > grape clusters and the grapes are harvested one grape at a
                        > time.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Dr. Joe, I hope you open that bottle at a very important
                        > and festive
                        > occasion. Eszencia has been described as “liquid gold.”
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Janet
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > _____
                        >
                        > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                        > Behalf Of Dr. Joe Q
                        > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 5:28 PM
                        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Hungarian/Slovak Party
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Tokaj is also made in a very small area of Slovakia, most
                        > of it comes from
                        > Hungary. It is expensive relative to other wines. It comes
                        > in small bottles
                        > of about 500 mL. I have a 1993 Tokaji Aszueszecia that I
                        > bought in Budapest
                        > in 2001 for about 25,000 forint, at that time the exchange
                        > was about 300 HUF
                        > / USD so that was around $80!
                        >
                        > The Tokaji from Hungary also carry a classification of
                        > "punt" which relates
                        > to the quality and implies the number baskets of grapes
                        > used to make it. I
                        > have the seen the numbers run from 1 to 5, but there may b
                        > higher
                        > classifications. The higher the number, the better the
                        > wine.
                        >
                        > Tokaj is sweet like sauternes and is intended to be drunk
                        > in small glasses
                        > like those used for sherry or port.
                        >
                        > Dr. "Q"





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