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Re: [S-R] Schlesinger/Hrusovsky

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  • John Hrusovszky
    Thank you, Bill, very much for the response and the suggestions. The majority of the information I have come across is from hiring Vladimir Bohinc to research
    Message 1 of 3 , Aug 18, 2008
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      Thank you, Bill, very much for the response and the suggestions.

      The majority of the information I have come across is from hiring Vladimir
      Bohinc to research my paternal lineage. He dead-ended
      with the possibility of my GGrandfather being Richard Schlesinger and did
      not find any further information nor any proof of that. He said there was
      more he could research, but for at least the time being, we stopped the
      research to see if I could connect with someone from that specific
      Schlesinger family and find out a little more. (I must also state that he
      was very good as a researcher and when I am able to pursue this farther, I
      will hire him back as I am most pleased with his assistance).

      Mr. Bohinc provided me with sources for the Hrusovsky side (maternal) side
      of the family, e.g. birth certificates, but no source paperwork on the
      Schlesinger side as I did not pursue that side as of yet. I do not want to
      financially research that line as it might not even be related.

      I would assume that if someone was researching the same Richard Schlessinger
      lineage that I posted information on, they would realize that and contact me
      pertaining to it. That lineage is important to me as I suspect Richard
      Schlesinger was the father of my grandfather with Julianna Hrusovska (my
      great grandmother). Julianna's brother's granddaughter has been in contact
      with me and she said her family heard that Julianna became pregnant by the
      owner of the farm she worked on. Again, though, this is all hand-me-down
      "lore" and not proven.

      Thank you again for your help ... I very much appreciate it. I will get the
      book "Slovakia, Struggel for Survival" to read and hopefully better
      understand the times in Slovakia I am researching.

      John Hrusovszky



      2008/8/15 Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>

      > Hello John and welcome to the group.
      > The vast majority of researchers on this group focus on those of peasant
      > stock. Our knowledge of noblemen is admittedly weak. That said, there are
      > quite a number of collections of heraldic documents available to trace the
      > lineage of nobility. You ask many disparate questions, I will tackle only
      > but a couple.
      >
      > 1. Attached is a reference to useful connections you can pursue:
      > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/nobility.htm Remember that while you
      > research nobility, until 1869 only landowners and property owners were
      > systematically documented. How illegitimate births were handled is a
      > separate matter. The most definitive sources are probably going to be in
      > church baptismal records. If it's missing, that' probably the end of the
      > road. Resident researchers such as Peter Nagy and Vladimir Bohinc are
      > experienced in such searches.
      >
      > 2. You list a family tree, but do not cite it's source or any indication
      > about why you believe this lineage might be of interest. It's impossible
      > to
      > draw any conclusions from these data without some sources.
      >
      > 3. Hungary had a king until the end of WWII (1918). The last king was
      > Karoly.
      > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hungarian_rulers
      >
      > 4. Schlesinger was not an indigenous name to the region. Most likely a
      > wealthy landowner, probably did not live in the territory, but may have
      > maintained various "residences" for hunting, vacationing and oversight.
      > Not
      > all property owners were Magyar. Some were from as far away as the
      > Netherlands.
      >
      > 5. After WWI, most property owners who lived in the region had fled and
      > most
      > large property confiscated by Czechoslovakia. The remaining properties
      > were
      > socialized after WWII.
      >
      > 6. Keep you eyes open when discussing noblemen. There were various types
      > of
      > nobility. There were many dime-a-dozen "lesser nobles" who were given
      > titles in reward for some gallant effort, but remained poor. One could be
      > a
      > rich land baron and not a nobleman, and yet a landless peasant could have
      > been a "lesser noble." It was all over the map, so tread cautiously.
      >
      > 7. Read Kirschbaum's "Slovakia, Struggle for Survival"
      >
      > 8. Tax records for property are well-preserved. There are many property
      > census, include several online which often list heads of households if
      > landowner status.
      >
      > 9. I have never seen overt attempts to hide evidence in birth records. It
      > is unlikely you will ever get an answer to the "why did they change"
      > question. We can however note that if someone went back to look at the
      > record at the time, there must have been an event at that time which
      > motivated. Perhaps birth of another child, a marriage, or need for a
      > passport, or need for proof of birth?
      >
      > 10. In 1895 the government of Hungary declared itself to be the keeper of
      > vital records, instead of the church. So while you have a record of
      > baptismal sacrament, there should be a record held by the state of his
      > birth. These records for pre-1895 are in state archives. Post-1895
      > records
      > are extant in village offices.
      >
      > From the above information I believe most of your questions are initially
      > addressed.
      >
      > Bill
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
      > On
      > Behalf Of John Hrusovszky
      > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 12:41 PM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [S-R] Schlesinger/Hrusovsky
      >
      > Good morning. I was recently told about this list so I joined right away.
      > I have hit a "brick wall" in my genealogy research and am hoping someone
      > here might be able to help me find an avenue to pursue to find out more
      > about my ancestry. I hired a Slovak genealogist who did a great job for me
      > in finding my grandfather's maternal ancestors, but the paternal lineage is
      > very questionable at this time:
      >
      >
      > I believe I may be descended from a Schlesinger in Slovakia in the late
      > 1800s. What I know is the
      > following:
      >
      > My paternal grandfather was born Jan Hrusovsky 08 Oct 1912 in Schlesinger
      > Majer (near Piestany, Slovakia). His mother (Jשlianna Hrusovska) is listed
      > on his birth certificate, but no father is listed.
      >
      > Possible father of Jan:
      >
      > Richard Schlesinger b. 20 Oct 1871 Klucove, Bolesov, Rabinate, Slovakia. m.
      > Elsa Popper
      > Richard's parents:
      > Adolf Schlesinger b. 1843 Nemsova, Slovakia m. Cacilie Popper b. Nov 1849
      > Rajec Teplice, Slovakia
      > Children: Friderika b. 26 May 1869, Olga b. 11 Aug 1870, Richard b. 20
      > Oct 1871
      > Adolf's parents:
      > Jacob Schlesinger b. 1820 Bolesov, Slovakia m. Cecilia 'Zilli' Lowi b.
      > 1825.
      > Children: Adolf b. 1843,Bertha b. 1851, Isak Elias b.1857, Arnold b. 29
      > Sep 1859, David b. 16 Jan
      > 1861, Mina b. 08 Mar 1865.
      > Cacilie's parents:
      > Abraham Popper b. 1814 Poruba. m. Esther 'Netti' Schimek
      > Abraham's parents:
      > Leopold Popper m. ? Feigel
      > Leopold's parents:
      > Herschel 'Israel' Popper b. in Hlinik, Trencin County
      >
      > Now, the questionable items:
      > Jשlianna was a resident of 'Schlesinger Majer' (this was explained to me as
      > being a farming community in Slovakia owned by a Richard Schlesinger and/or
      > his family.) Jan's family was always told that he was the illegitimate son
      > of a King and he was conceived while his mother was a chambermaid in the
      > kingdom she lived in in Slovakia. Obviously, there were no kings in 1912,
      > but a wealthy land owner would quite possibly appear to be like a king, and
      > since his mother (Jשlianna) lived there in the kingdom, she probably was
      > some sort of maid or laborer, thus the family 'lore' that was handed down
      > about her being a chambermaid.
      >
      > This is the entire connection I currently have to the Schlesinger lineage.
      > There is no other links, nor any family left so no good way to find out
      > unless I can connect with someone who has some knowledge of this Richard
      > Schlesinger and his family in Slovakia. Perhaps there was a journal or
      > diary or Bible or some sort of note left somewhere that someone has
      > possession of that could help. I don't even know if a DNA test could
      > assist
      > me in finding if I am a descendant of the Schlesinger's which would at
      > least
      >
      > tell me if I should further research the Schlesinger name or not.
      >
      > One confusing part to me: On the original birth record for Jan Hrusovsky,
      > the priest made a mistake and wrote Rusovszky instead of Hrusovsky. This
      > was corrected in 1942 to Hrusovsky. The remark says: " cognomes matris
      > recte est Hrusovsky"....meaning, the correct surname of the mother is
      > Hrusovsky. Jan married in Budapest in 1937. He might have had a son in
      > 1938 that died very yound, and he definitely had 1 son in 1939. Jan's
      > birth
      > record was corrected in 1942 -- I don't understand why it was corrected,
      > but
      > that was around the time of WWII, so could that possibly be an attempt to
      > hide lineage?
      >
      > If anyone understands the possibilities/probabilities of this information,
      > or can point me in a possible direction to try and further my research,
      > that
      > would be so welcome. I'm sure there are many, many items I do not
      > understand from the historical, political, and cultural issues of the times
      > in the late 1800s and early 1900s.
      >
      > Thank you very much, in advance.
      >
      >
      > John Hrusovszky, Jr.
      > jhrusovszky@...
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
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