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RE: [S-R] primary American sources

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  • Ben Sorensen
    Hello all,   In my studies, I am finding that American sources are very wanting in finding original locations, and very often I find the place of birth or
    Message 1 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
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      Hello all,
       
      In my studies, I am finding that American sources are very wanting in finding original locations, and very often I find the "place of birth" or "from" box reading "Germany" or another country- obviously, in this country there wasn't much importance given to exact locations. My prof (who is LDS) says that "one can use the IGI to find localities of origination, and it can save you alot of tedius research in American sources." I personally am hesitant about the IGI- what sources have given you the best luck? Personally, I am finding Death Records to be good- though one has to know geography for it to be of assistance. I can see this not working though... when those present don't know which city or village the person was from.  Petitions for citizenship are about worthless when trying to determine an exact location, I find, as they have the "renunciation FOREVER all allegiances adn fidelity to any Foreign Power (or something of the like)" and then are good
      at determining who was King and which province, but no cities, towns, or villages- so finding vitals in the old country is somewhat demanding.
       
      Which sources, then, have been the best for you?
      Ben




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • bill.tarkulich@iabsi.com
      Your prof is trying to limit you to the sources at his hand. that is, the FHL. He is also taking the easy way out. I ve already made my opinion known about
      Message 2 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
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        Your prof is trying to limit you to the sources at his hand. that is, the
        FHL.
        He is also taking the easy way out.
        I've already made my opinion known about IGI. I would treat it as a clue,
        but never as authority.

        I have written extensively about birth sources.
        http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

        With regard to immigration records, the US did not legislate collection of
        detailed data until 1904.
        Look at any manifest before or after 1904 to see the difference. Before
        1904, America accepted most people with open arms (discrimination after
        arrival notwithstanding.)

        with regard to death records - dreadfully inaccurate. It may be working
        for your specific lineage, but I would not bet one crown upon it. Death
        information in the USA is never verified or validated on death
        certificates, except in extenuating circumstances (murder, imprisonment,
        war, etcetera.)

        Bill Tarkulich


        On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 06:06:58 -0700 (PDT), Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
        wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hello all,
        >
        > In my studies, I am finding that American sources are very wanting in
        > finding original locations, and very often I find the "place of birth" or
        > "from" box reading "Germany" or another country- obviously, in this
        country
        > there wasn't much importance given to exact locations. My prof (who is
        LDS)
        > says that "one can use the IGI to find localities of origination, and it
        > can save you alot of tedius research in American sources." I personally
        am
        > hesitant about the IGI- what sources have given you the best luck?
        > Personally, I am finding Death Records to be good- though one has to know
        > geography for it to be of assistance. I can see this not working
        though...
        > when those present don't know which city or village the person was from.
        > Petitions for citizenship are about worthless when trying to determine an
        > exact location, I find, as they have the "renunciation FOREVER all
        > allegiances adn fidelity to any Foreign Power (or something of the like)"
        > and then are good
        > at determining who was King and which province, but no cities, towns, or
        > villages- so finding vitals in the old country is somewhat demanding.
        >
        > Which sources, then, have been the best for you?
        > Ben
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
        > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Ben Sorensen
        ... From: bill.tarkulich@iabsi.com Subject: RE: [S-R] primary American sources To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday,
        Message 3 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
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          --- On Thu, 8/7/08, bill.tarkulich@... <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:

          From: bill.tarkulich@... <bill.tarkulich@...>
          Subject: RE: [S-R] primary American sources
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 3:53 PM







          Your prof is trying to limit you to the sources at his hand. that is, the
          FHL.
          He is also taking the easy way out.
          I've already made my opinion known about IGI. I would treat it as a clue,
          but never as authority.

          I have written extensively about birth sources.
          http://www.iabsi. com/gen/public/ ancestral_ village.htm

          With regard to immigration records, the US did not legislate collection of
          detailed data until 1904.
          Look at any manifest before or after 1904 to see the difference. Before
          1904, America accepted most people with open arms (discrimination after
          arrival notwithstanding. )

          with regard to death records - dreadfully inaccurate. It may be working
          for your specific lineage, but I would not bet one crown upon it. Death
          information in the USA is never verified or validated on death
          certificates, except in extenuating circumstances (murder, imprisonment,
          war, etcetera.)

          Bill Tarkulich

          On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 06:06:58 -0700 (PDT), Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@yahoo. com>
          wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hello all,
          >
          > In my studies, I am finding that American sources are very wanting in
          > finding original locations, and very often I find the "place of birth" or
          > "from" box reading "Germany" or another country- obviously, in this
          country
          > there wasn't much importance given to exact locations. My prof (who is
          LDS)
          > says that "one can use the IGI to find localities of origination, and it
          > can save you alot of tedius research in American sources." I personally
          am
          > hesitant about the IGI- what sources have given you the best luck?
          > Personally, I am finding Death Records to be good- though one has to know
          > geography for it to be of assistance. I can see this not working
          though...
          > when those present don't know which city or village the person was from.
          > Petitions for citizenship are about worthless when trying to determine an
          > exact location, I find, as they have the "renunciation FOREVER all
          > allegiances adn fidelity to any Foreign Power (or something of the like)"
          > and then are good
          > at determining who was King and which province, but no cities, towns, or
          > villages- so finding vitals in the old country is somewhat demanding.
          >
          > Which sources, then, have been the best for you?
          > Ben
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          > ------------ --------- --------- ------
          >
          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SLOVAK- ROOTS/
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
          > http://www.yahoogro ups.com/group/ SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
          > SLOVAK-ROOTS- unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. comYahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >

















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ben Sorensen
          I am so sorry that there is a blank post on its way.  My hand malfunctioned and clicked the send button on its own. I am very sorry. Ben ... From:
          Message 4 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
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            I am so sorry that there is a blank post on its way.  My hand malfunctioned and clicked the send button on its own. I am very sorry.
            Ben

            --- On Thu, 8/7/08, bill.tarkulich@... <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:

            From: bill.tarkulich@... <bill.tarkulich@...>
            Subject: RE: [S-R] primary American sources
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 3:53 PM







            Your prof is trying to limit you to the sources at his hand. that is, the
            FHL.
            He is also taking the easy way out.
            I've already made my opinion known about IGI. I would treat it as a clue,
            but never as authority.

            I have written extensively about birth sources.
            http://www.iabsi. com/gen/public/ ancestral_ village.htm

            With regard to immigration records, the US did not legislate collection of
            detailed data until 1904.
            Look at any manifest before or after 1904 to see the difference. Before
            1904, America accepted most people with open arms (discrimination after
            arrival notwithstanding. )

            with regard to death records - dreadfully inaccurate. It may be working
            for your specific lineage, but I would not bet one crown upon it. Death
            information in the USA is never verified or validated on death
            certificates, except in extenuating circumstances (murder, imprisonment,
            war, etcetera.)

            Bill Tarkulich

            On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 06:06:58 -0700 (PDT), Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@yahoo. com>
            wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hello all,
            >
            > In my studies, I am finding that American sources are very wanting in
            > finding original locations, and very often I find the "place of birth" or
            > "from" box reading "Germany" or another country- obviously, in this
            country
            > there wasn't much importance given to exact locations. My prof (who is
            LDS)
            > says that "one can use the IGI to find localities of origination, and it
            > can save you alot of tedius research in American sources." I personally
            am
            > hesitant about the IGI- what sources have given you the best luck?
            > Personally, I am finding Death Records to be good- though one has to know
            > geography for it to be of assistance. I can see this not working
            though...
            > when those present don't know which city or village the person was from.
            > Petitions for citizenship are about worthless when trying to determine an
            > exact location, I find, as they have the "renunciation FOREVER all
            > allegiances adn fidelity to any Foreign Power (or something of the like)"
            > and then are good
            > at determining who was King and which province, but no cities, towns, or
            > villages- so finding vitals in the old country is somewhat demanding.
            >
            > Which sources, then, have been the best for you?
            > Ben
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            > ------------ --------- --------- ------
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SLOVAK- ROOTS/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            > http://www.yahoogro ups.com/group/ SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
            > SLOVAK-ROOTS- unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. comYahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >

















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • ssultonia
            Ben, I had the opposite experience with Petitions for Citizenship. That was the first place that gave me a clue where my GF was born. He listed the village
            Message 5 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
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              Ben,
              I had the opposite experience with Petitions for Citizenship. That
              was the first place that gave me a clue where my GF was born. He
              listed the village where he was born as "Almas" and through some kind
              folks on this forum I learned that it was now Jablonov. That was the
              breakthrough I needed and from there the LDS films helped fill in most
              of the blanks. He also listed his last place of residence before
              leaving as "Lucksa", which is right around the corner from Jablonov.
              So, I guess it shows how much the records vary and that what works for
              one may not for another depending on the time and location when the
              documents were originated.
              Cheers,
              Bill
              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > Hello all,
              >
              > In my studies, I am finding that American sources are very wanting
              in finding original locations, and very often I find the "place of
              birth" or "from" box reading "Germany" or another country- obviously,
              in this country there wasn't much importance given to exact locations.
              My prof (who is LDS) says that "one can use the IGI to find localities
              of origination, and it can save you alot of tedius research in
              American sources." I personally am hesitant about the IGI- what
              sources have given you the best luck? Personally, I am finding Death
              Records to be good- though one has to know geography for it to be of
              assistance. I can see this not working though... when those present
              don't know which city or village the person was from. Petitions for
              citizenship are about worthless when trying to determine an exact
              location, I find, as they have the "renunciation FOREVER all
              allegiances adn fidelity to any Foreign Power (or something of the
              like)" and then are good
              > at determining who was King and which province, but no cities,
              towns, or villages- so finding vitals in the old country is somewhat
              demanding.
              >
              > Which sources, then, have been the best for you?
              > Ben
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • kozlay
              There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It is the Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the place of
              Message 6 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
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                There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It is the
                Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and usually does
                not contain this information. See
                http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.



                Janet





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • PAULA BYRD
                Janet, do you have an email address that works, this one says not found Paula ... From: kozlay To:
                Message 7 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Janet,

                  do you have an email address that works, this one says not found

                  Paula
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: kozlay<mailto:kozlay@...>
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 3:39 PM
                  Subject: RE: [S-R] primary American sources


                  There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It is the
                  Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                  place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and usually does
                  not contain this information. See
                  http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.<http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.>

                  Janet

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • kozlay
                  Paula, I am in the midst of changing my email address from kozlay@comcast.net to kozlay@verizon.net. I don t know why you have had problems since I believe I
                  Message 8 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
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                    Paula, I am in the midst of changing my email address from
                    kozlay@... to kozlay@.... I don't know why you have had
                    problems since I believe I am receiving emails at the new address. You can
                    also try me at kozlay@....



                    Janet





                    _____

                    From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of PAULA BYRD
                    Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 6:51 PM
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [S-R] primary American sources



                    Janet,

                    do you have an email address that works, this one says not found

                    Paula
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: kozlay<mailto:kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay%40verizon.net> net>
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                    yahoogroups.com<mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                    yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 3:39 PM
                    Subject: RE: [S-R] primary American sources

                    There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It is the
                    Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                    place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and usually does
                    not contain this information. See
                    http://www.genealog <http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.>
                    ybranches.com/naturalization.html.<http://www.genealog
                    <http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.>
                    ybranches.com/naturalization.html.>

                    Janet

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • ssultonia
                    Janet, Oops. You re right. I quoted the wrong document. Sorry for the confusion Ben. The Declaration of Intent is where I got my big break. Regards. Bill ...
                    Message 9 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Janet,
                      Oops. You're right. I quoted the wrong document. Sorry for the
                      confusion Ben. The Declaration of Intent is where I got my big break.
                      Regards.
                      Bill

                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It
                      is the
                      > Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                      > place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and
                      usually does
                      > not contain this information. See
                      > http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Janet
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • PAULA BYRD
                      Janet, I was meaning the adrdess for the first papers.When you click on the
                      Message 10 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
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                        Janet,

                        I was meaning the adrdess for the first papers.When you click on the www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html<http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html> and the other one you have listed , it brings up a site that says not found.

                        Paula
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: kozlay<mailto:kozlay@...>
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 6:18 PM
                        Subject: RE: [S-R] primary American sources


                        Paula, I am in the midst of changing my email address from
                        kozlay@...<mailto:kozlay@...> to kozlay@...<mailto:kozlay@...>. I don't know why you have had
                        problems since I believe I am receiving emails at the new address. You can
                        also try me at kozlay@...<mailto:kozlay@...>.

                        Janet

                        _____

                        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                        Behalf Of PAULA BYRD
                        Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 6:51 PM
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                        Subject: Re: [S-R] primary American sources

                        Janet,

                        do you have an email address that works, this one says not found

                        Paula
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: kozlay<mailto:kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay%40verizon.net> net>
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                        yahoogroups.com<mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                        yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 3:39 PM
                        Subject: RE: [S-R] primary American sources

                        There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It is the
                        Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                        place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and usually does
                        not contain this information. See
                        http://www.genealog<http://www.genealog/> <http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.<http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.>>
                        ybranches.com/naturalization.html.<http://www.genealog<http://www.genealog/>
                        <http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.<http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.>>
                        ybranches.com/naturalization.html.>

                        Janet

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • MEMcDTT@aol.com
                        In a message dated 8/7/2008 5:58:33 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, crazyquilter3@msn.com writes:
                        Message 11 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          In a message dated 8/7/2008 5:58:33 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                          crazyquilter3@... writes:

                          <_http://www.genealoghttp://wwwhttp://www.geneahttp://w_
                          (http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.) >>


                          See the period after "html" that is what caused the problem

                          Janet wrote,

                          I was meaning the adrdess for the first papers.When you click on the
                          www.genealogybranchI was meaning thI was
                          mean<_http://www.genealoghttp://wwwhttp://www.geneahttp://_ (http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html) > and
                          the other one you have listed , it brings up a site that says not found.



                          **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
                          Read reviews on AOL Autos.
                          (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Ben Sorensen
                          I see what you all mean, and I am thankful for the opinions. I am doing a practice tree, and one of the Declarations of Intention from Wisconsin states that
                          Message 12 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I see what you all mean, and I am thankful for the opinions. I am doing a practice tree, and one of the Declarations of Intention from Wisconsin states that one of my subjects was born in "Prussia." Not exactly a place of origin... :-)
                             
                            Because most of what I am doing is theory with preset "practicals," I am very thankful for your "real-world" experience! I have been already warned, many times in class and out, of the poverty of American records before 1900.
                             
                            EVEN IN SPITE of some of the ideas about FHL and IGI in this course, it has taught me how to get the most out of primary sources, and I would definitely recommend it to anyone.  I am thoroughly enjoying this, and this group...
                            Ben

                            --- On Fri, 8/8/08, ssultonia <wasmore@...> wrote:

                            From: ssultonia <wasmore@...>
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] primary American sources
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Friday, August 8, 2008, 2:37 AM






                            Janet,
                            Oops. You're right. I quoted the wrong document. Sorry for the
                            confusion Ben. The Declaration of Intent is where I got my big break.
                            Regards.
                            Bill

                            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com, "kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It
                            is the
                            > Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                            > place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and
                            usually does
                            > not contain this information. See
                            > http://www.genealog ybranches. com/naturalizati on.html.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Janet
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >


















                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • kozlay
                            Here, let s try it one more time: http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html Janet [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            Message 13 of 25 , Aug 8, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Here, let's try it one more time:



                              http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html



                              Janet





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • bill.tarkulich@iabsi.com
                              I never hang my hat on a single data point. Unless there is overwhelming circumstantial evidence that points to the data being correct, I insist on a second
                              Message 14 of 25 , Aug 8, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I never hang my hat on a single data point. Unless there is overwhelming
                                circumstantial evidence that points to the data being correct, I insist on
                                a second independent authoritative source to corroborate it. yea, I'm
                                being a broken record.

                                so if what you are doing is "theory", THE most important thing you can do
                                is to cite and record sources for all data. That way, when you go back,
                                people can develop their own opinions about whether the data element is
                                credible.

                                Regarding "Prussia". Don't be so quick to throw out the baby with the bath
                                water. One inaccurate data element is not necessarily grounds to discount
                                the whole document. It is never clear to me who the source of the
                                information was for all or part of this information. Self? Clerk?
                                Offspring? Friend? In some cases, it was simply confusion on the part of
                                the immigrant. In most cases these folk were ignorant (not stupid),
                                illiterate rural folks from small obscure region.

                                Regards,
                                Bill



                                On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 19:58:45 -0700 (PDT), Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
                                wrote:
                                > I see what you all mean, and I am thankful for the opinions. I am doing a
                                > practice tree, and one of the Declarations of Intention from Wisconsin
                                > states that one of my subjects was born in "Prussia." Not exactly a place
                                > of origin... :-)
                                >
                                > Because most of what I am doing is theory with preset "practicals," I am
                                > very thankful for your "real-world" experience! I have been already
                                warned,
                                > many times in class and out, of the poverty of American records before
                                > 1900.
                                >
                                > EVEN IN SPITE of some of the ideas about FHL and IGI in this course, it
                                > has taught me how to get the most out of primary sources, and I would
                                > definitely recommend it to anyone. I am thoroughly enjoying this, and
                                > this group...
                                > Ben
                                >
                                > --- On Fri, 8/8/08, ssultonia <wasmore@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > From: ssultonia <wasmore@...>
                                > Subject: Re: [S-R] primary American sources
                                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                > Date: Friday, August 8, 2008, 2:37 AM
                                >
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                                >
                                > Janet,
                                > Oops. You're right. I quoted the wrong document. Sorry for the
                                > confusion Ben. The Declaration of Intent is where I got my big break.
                                > Regards.
                                > Bill
                                >
                                > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com, "kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
                                >>
                                >> There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It
                                > is the
                                >> Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                                >> place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and
                                > usually does
                                >> not contain this information. See
                                >> http://www.genealog ybranches. com/naturalizati on.html.
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> Janet
                                >>
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                                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                >
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                              • Margo Smith
                                Ben -- poverty of American records before 1900 ?  In my experience, there are many more American records available than SK records.  Once a US location
                                Message 15 of 25 , Aug 8, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Ben -- "poverty of American records before 1900"?  In my experience, there are many more American records available than SK records.  Once a US location became a county, there are often a lot of records.  Of course, there are too many "burned courthouse" cases.
                                   
                                  Margo

                                  --- On Fri, 8/8/08, bill.tarkulich@... <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:

                                  From: bill.tarkulich@... <bill.tarkulich@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [S-R] primary American sources
                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Friday, August 8, 2008, 8:10 AM







                                  I never hang my hat on a single data point. Unless there is overwhelming
                                  circumstantial evidence that points to the data being correct, I insist on
                                  a second independent authoritative source to corroborate it. yea, I'm
                                  being a broken record.

                                  so if what you are doing is "theory", THE most important thing you can do
                                  is to cite and record sources for all data. That way, when you go back,
                                  people can develop their own opinions about whether the data element is
                                  credible.

                                  Regarding "Prussia". Don't be so quick to throw out the baby with the bath
                                  water. One inaccurate data element is not necessarily grounds to discount
                                  the whole document. It is never clear to me who the source of the
                                  information was for all or part of this information. Self? Clerk?
                                  Offspring? Friend? In some cases, it was simply confusion on the part of
                                  the immigrant. In most cases these folk were ignorant (not stupid),
                                  illiterate rural folks from small obscure region.

                                  Regards,
                                  Bill

                                  On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 19:58:45 -0700 (PDT), Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@yahoo. com>
                                  wrote:
                                  > I see what you all mean, and I am thankful for the opinions. I am doing a
                                  > practice tree, and one of the Declarations of Intention from Wisconsin
                                  > states that one of my subjects was born in "Prussia." Not exactly a place
                                  > of origin... :-)
                                  >
                                  > Because most of what I am doing is theory with preset "practicals, " I am
                                  > very thankful for your "real-world" experience! I have been already
                                  warned,
                                  > many times in class and out, of the poverty of American records before
                                  > 1900.
                                  >
                                  > EVEN IN SPITE of some of the ideas about FHL and IGI in this course, it
                                  > has taught me how to get the most out of primary sources, and I would
                                  > definitely recommend it to anyone. I am thoroughly enjoying this, and
                                  > this group...
                                  > Ben
                                  >
                                  > --- On Fri, 8/8/08, ssultonia <wasmore@att. net> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > From: ssultonia <wasmore@att. net>
                                  > Subject: Re: [S-R] primary American sources
                                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
                                  > Date: Friday, August 8, 2008, 2:37 AM
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Janet,
                                  > Oops. You're right. I quoted the wrong document. Sorry for the
                                  > confusion Ben. The Declaration of Intent is where I got my big break.
                                  > Regards.
                                  > Bill
                                  >
                                  > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com, "kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >> There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It
                                  > is the
                                  >> Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                                  >> place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and
                                  > usually does
                                  >> not contain this information. See
                                  >> http://www.genealog ybranches. com/naturalizati on.html.
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> Janet
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
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                                  >>
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                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------ --------- --------- ------
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                                  >
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                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

















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