Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

RE: [S-R] Johannes Kostak

Expand Messages
  • bill.tarkulich@iabsi.com
    Hello Paul, Janet has provided a tremendous amount of help and sorting of facts for you. I am going to ask you to take a DEEP BREATH, push the chair back and
    Message 1 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
      Hello Paul,

      Janet has provided a tremendous amount of help and sorting of facts for
      you. I am going to ask you to take a DEEP BREATH, push the chair back and
      do a little retrospective analysis now. I don't have time to help you with
      your specific search, but I do want to caution you as you proceed.

      First, it seems that your primary research sources are the manifests and
      the tombstones. I would be very hesitant to be building family trees based
      on this information. You need secondary sources. Clearly the church
      records on film will help you do that more confidently.

      Secondly, of critical importance is to get your hands on any documents your
      ancestors themselves may have produced. Otherwise you will be dealing with
      conjecture, implication and dreadful assumptions, all of which must be
      avoided. The most available and important records will be found in your
      immigrant's immigration file. The USCIS has been undergoing significant
      changes in administration of these records since 9/11. It appears we can
      see light at the end of the tunnel, with a new system for requesting these
      records set to go live on August 13th. While it will take months to get
      your paper, it is of critical importance in assuring you are looking at the
      right records. In these files contains your immigrant's testament to their
      birth date, place, immigration date, ship, next of kin and so on. all of
      these facts are super-important clues.
      A shortcut to get to the USCIS announcement is here:
      http://tinyurl.com/6gp6gt
      Examples of what can be found in a immigration file include the Alien
      Registration form
      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm#alien.
      The USCIS took most of this information offline, I spent some time
      reconstructing it on my site but have not completed the effort.
      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/imm_names.htm#american_names, so the Alien
      Registration form image is missing at the moment.

      So get your request in to the USCIS and then go back to your other
      research. It will be well worth the wait.

      Janet is spot-on about details. Note every single one of them.

      An oft-overlooked strategy is to follow the records of friends, other
      family from the same village when you hit dead ends. Often you will find
      the record, but badly mangled in spelling, unfindable through computer
      serarch engines.

      Lastly, there is no such thing as "correct right" or "right name". Names
      morphed over the centuries, kingdoms, rulers, recordkeepers and manglers,
      both intentional and unintentional. Most of our ancestors were illiterate
      as late as 100 years ago. My grandmother signed a property deed in 1924
      with an "X". How would she know the correct spelling?!!!! Note all names
      and keep careful records. NEVER change names in the family tree to what
      you believe the "correct" name is. Use the name of record. If you don't,
      future researchers will be lost and befuddled with your work, and forced to
      discard it and start over.

      Best of Luck,

      Bill Tarkulich

      On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 04:32:26 -0700 (PDT), Paul Kostyak <kaytsok@...>
      wrote:
      > Hi Janet:
      >
      > First, let me clear that words cannot express my gratitude thus far.
      > Also, I realize you cannot continue to focus on my family to the extent
      > that I would like. So anytime you need to stop, I understand
      > completely.
      >
      > You are able to read these manifests remarkably. At this
      > point, one question for you is that on the 1904 manifiest for Maria
      > Miscovics, my grandmother, do you concur that the entry below Maria on
      the
      > same manifest is her mother, my great-grandmother, Maria Krajniak?
      >
      > As an aside, it is my belief that many, many of the Kostyak's here in the
      > Pennsylvania are are related. (I have just now come to that
      > suspicion.) I need to connect the dots from John/Johannes/Janos born
      > 1878, my grandfather, to the band/sibs of Kostyak's from the 1860's and
      > 1870's. Based on reasonable analysis of the ages, my best guess is
      > that Andres (born 1858) is his father, but there are a couple of other
      > possibilities. Also, there is a second Frank Kostyak from
      > Braddock, PA (he had 8 children. All these years, we didn't think we
      > were related to him, but now I suspect they are all kin to this same
      > band/sibs, so they are likely cousins) who died a few years ago (the
      > first Frank/Francis was my dad who also died 5 years ago). It is my
      > belief that Frank from Braddock (born 1888) was also a son of one of this
      > same band of Kostyaks (Andres/Janos/Pal/Michely/et al)
      >
      > Finally, I see a Janos born1843 immigrated in 1889 on the Breman that I
      > will take a wild guess and say he is the dad of this same band/sibs of
      > Kostyaks.
      >
      > Finally, finally, I see an number of Janos Kostyak's. (born: 1843 (the
      > one I just identified), 1862, (who I think is his son and one of this
      same
      > band/sibs), 1871 (not sure who he is), 1875 (not sure who he is), 1878
      (my
      > grandfather as discussed) and 1886 (probably a child of one of the
      > band/sibs discussed.
      >
      > Do you think I may be on the right track with all of this, or am I way
      > off? Apparently, my family history center is closed the month of
      > August. I'll be meeting with my newly hired genealogist, Elissa
      > Powell here in Pittsburgh, next week.
      >
      > Thanks, Janet. I am determined to get this all right no matter how long
      > it takes and how much it costs.
      >
      > Paul
      >
      > --- On Wed, 8/6/08, kozlay <kozlay@...> wrote:
      >
      > From: kozlay <kozlay@...>
      > Subject: RE: [S-R] Johannes Kostak
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 7:47 AM
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Dear Paul,
      >
      > The Maria Miskovics who arrived on the Carpathia in 1910 was the husband
      > of
      > Mihaly (Michael) Miskovics. She was traveling with her five children to
      > her
      > husband in Uniontown PA. Her mother was Agnes Csaplak in Lassupatak.
      >
      > Maria Miscovics was single when she immigrated in 1904.
      >
      > Both the 1920 and 1930 censuses from Pittsburgh indicate that John
      > Kostyak's
      > wife, Mary, was six years younger than he, making her date of birth about
      > 1885. This corresponds to the age of Maria Miscovics on the manifest in
      > 1904.
      >
      > As for the date on Maria's tombstone, this sort of error is not uncommon.
      > The date would have been provided by a family member who may not have
      been
      > certain of her date of birth. The only definitive answer is to find her
      > birth record in Slovakia.
      >
      > Clearly these two Marias were sisters-in-law.
      >
      > The occupational information on the members of the Kostyak family comes
      > from
      > the 1920 and 1930 censuses for Pittsburgh. This is a good illustration of
      > how important it is to pay attention to all of the information provided.
      > This is just as true when you begin looking at the church records from
      > Slovakia. There is often far more information than simply dates of birth,
      > marriage, death, and parentage, though it may not be obvious from first
      > glance. When you locate entries for your family, be sure to make a copy
      of
      > the entire page as well as close-ups of the individual entry. This will
      > help
      > you (and others) to glean as much information as possible from the
      record.
      > It will be of interest, for instance, to see if John/Janos/Johannes came
      > from a family of tailors or other craftsmen and whether they tended to
      > marry
      > other craftsmen, as opposed to farming peasants. This would be
      significant
      > information relative to their social standing in the village and help you
      > learn more about the actual lives they led. In the end, this will be of
      > greater interest than just names and dates.
      >
      > Meanwhile, while you are waiting for films to come in, I concur that you
      > would be well advised to learn all you can from Bill Tarkulich's site
      > (www.iabsi.com) . There is so much valuable information there, you can
      > spend
      > several days going through it all and you may find yourself going back to
      > it
      > time and time again.
      >
      > Janet
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups.
      > com] On
      > Behalf Of Paul Kostyak
      > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:27 AM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
      > Cc: kaytsok@yahoo. com
      > Subject: RE: [S-R] Johannes Kostak
      >
      > Hello Janet:
      >
      > Clearly, you have a thorough understanding of all of this. While I
      > thought I had a good idea of Maria Miskovics record, you seem to be able
      > to
      > grasp things better.
      >
      > I am 100% sure that Janos was my grandfather. I plan to take a trip to
      > the local family history center for more pieces to the puzzle in the next
      > day or 2.
      >
      > I find it interesting that John/Janos/Johannes lists his father as
      > Casparus
      > and mother as Juliana. I guess it's possible that these two people never
      > came over. I found other Kostyak's on manifests, including another Janos
      > born in the 1860's. I suspect they are all related to me in some fashion.
      >
      > I have a different year of birth for Maria Miskovics. Her tombstone reads
      > 1883-1971. I remember her. Her brother was Michael. Does any of this
      > additional information make you feel that you are still correct on your
      > comments? I have a manifest from the Carpathia from September 17th,
      > (1900 or 1910) that I thought was the correct family. Yours appears
      > different.
      >
      > Also, how did you find out the great details that Louis was a errend boy
      > for
      > a flower shop, etc.?
      >
      > Any thoughts on any of this? Janet, I cannot tell you how indebted I am
      > to you. We'll deal with that later.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Paul
      >
      > --- On Tue, 8/5/08, kozlay <kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay% 40verizon.
      > net>
      > net> wrote:
      >
      > From: kozlay <kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay% 40verizon. net> net>
      > Subject: RE: [S-R] Johannes Kostak
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK- ROOTS%40yahoogro ups.com> yahoogroups.
      > com
      > Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 8:34 PM
      >
      > Paul,
      >
      > Maria Miscovics immigrated on February 14, 1904, from Szomolnok, also in
      > Szepes county, to Connellsville PA. Her date of birth was 1885.
      >
      > Szomolnok is now Smolnik SK and is not far from old Lassupatak.
      Lassupatak
      > went under a bewildering variety of names, including Stillbach and
      > Henclofalva. It is now Henclova or Ticha Voda SK, which are essentially
      > the
      > same village. You can find Smolnik and Henclova on a modern map such as
      > MapQuest and see how close they are.
      >
      > Roman Catholic church records are available for both places.
      > Lassupatak/Henclofa lva/Ticha Voda (etc.) records are found with the
      > village
      > of Nalepkovo. You might find Maria's family in either place, so you would
      > likely need to order the films from both.
      >
      > Janet
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:SLOVAK- ROOTS@ yahoogroups.
      > com]
      > On
      > Behalf Of Paul Kostyak
      > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 3:01 PM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
      > Subject: [S-R] Johannes Kostak
      >
      > Hello everyone: My name is Paul Kostyak from Pittsburgh, PA. I am
      > doing a family tree and I have spend countless hours trying to piece
      > the puzzle together. Can you please help me? After I piece the
      > Kostak puzzle together, I have two other important Hungarian puzzles,
      > but let's start with Kostak.
      >
      > My father was Frank. Born 1923 and died 2003. He had several
      > siblings which I have good information on.
      >
      > Their father was John Kostyak, with no further information. His
      > tombstone reads 1878-1944. This is correct.
      >
      > I found a small receipt of unknown origin (1909 from his marriage
      > license?) which lists his name as Johannes Kostak. No "Y". I
      > believe this to be his true, original name. There are other
      > Kostyak's from the same Szepes region, but I don't think they are
      > related. I think I need to focus on Kostak. I am confident that
      > his name was originally Johannes Kostak, because the spouse listed is
      > absolutely correct. (his spouse, my grandmother, will be the next
      > puzzle I tackle another day. Just fyi, her name was Maria Miscovics
      > from Lassupatak, and her mother was Maria Krajniak and her father was
      > Michael Miscovics)
      >
      > This same obscure receipt lists his father as Casparus Kostak from
      > Sandok Szepes. His mother was listed as Juliana Kostak. I
      > estimate their births to be around 1850, give or take a decade. I
      > don't know her maiden name.
      >
      > For the purpose of clarity, I will refer to Johannes Kostak as John
      > Kostyak from this point forward. In everything John did in his life
      > starting around 1910, he was referred to as John Kostyak, not
      > Johannes Kostak. John's residence was listed as Mt. Lebanon, PA on
      > this obscure receipt. Other minor clues: on his application for
      > marriage, his name appears as John Kostak from Dorman, PA. (There
      > is a small borough called Dormont, PA next to Mt. Lebanon)
      >
      > So, I am looking for any information about Johannes Kostak from
      > Sandok, born in 1878. Also, any information about John's father,
      > Casparus, and John's mother, Juliana.
      >
      > Also, fyi, John was a tailor for Boggs and Buhl in Pittsburgh.
      >
      > My cell phone is 412-445-8780 if anyone needs further clarification.
      >
      > Thank you in advance for any insights you can give me.
      >
      > Paul
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
      > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • kozlay
      Dear Paul, I do not think the entry below Maria s on the 1904 manifest could be her mother. The two were both 19 years old, and the second one appears to be
      Message 2 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
        Dear Paul,



        I do not think the entry below Maria's on the 1904 manifest could be her
        mother. The two were both 19 years old, and the second one appears to be
        coming from a different place and having a different destination. Nor do I
        think the name looks like Krajniak. To me it looks more like Jarajnak. The
        transcriber read it as Tarajnak.



        Are you even certain that Maria's mother ever immigrated? There are lots of
        Maria Krajniaks in the Ellis Island records, though I don't see any that
        might qualify age-wise.



        You are probably right that all these Kostyaks are related in some way,
        though you won't know for certain until you look at the Slovak records.
        Since it is likely you will find numerous people in there with the same
        name, it will be important to distinguish carefully between them, working
        out various family groupings based on parentage, siblings, spouses, dates of
        birth, etc. Keep in mind that only birth and marriage records can be used
        to establish the dates of those occurrences. You cannot, for instance,
        depend on stated age at marriage to establish a firm date of birth.



        I warn you that this is not an easy task. You can only hope that the records
        contain all the information you need. For instance, if a marriage record
        does not include the names of the bride and groom's parents, it may be
        difficult to place that marriage correctly in your family tree. The earlier
        you go, the more likely it is that there will be missing information. Also,
        you need to be prepared to find some people with more than one spouse. Death
        rates were pretty high, even among those who were relatively young, and
        remarriages often took place shortly after the death of a spouse. (Someone
        had to care for the children or support the family.) I found one instance in
        my own research in which a wife died and later that same year the deceased
        wife's brother was witness to the remarriage.



        I applaud you for your determination to sort all of this out. It can be very
        exciting work.



        Let me know if there is anything else I can do.



        Janet









        _____

        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Paul Kostyak
        Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 6:32 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: kaytsok@...
        Subject: RE: [S-R] Johannes Kostak



        Hi Janet:

        First, let me clear that words cannot express my gratitude thus far. Also,
        I realize you cannot continue to focus on my family to the extent that I
        would like. So anytime you need to stop, I understand completely.

        You are able to read these manifests remarkably. At this point, one
        question for you is that on the 1904 manifiest for Maria Miscovics, my
        grandmother, do you concur that the entry below Maria on the same manifest
        is her mother, my great-grandmother, Maria Krajniak?

        As an aside, it is my belief that many, many of the Kostyak's here in the
        Pennsylvania are are related. (I have just now come to that suspicion.)
        I need to connect the dots from John/Johannes/Janos born 1878, my
        grandfather, to the band/sibs of Kostyak's from the 1860's and 1870's.
        Based on reasonable analysis of the ages, my best guess is that Andres (born
        1858) is his father, but there are a couple of other possibilities.
        Also, there is a second Frank Kostyak from Braddock, PA (he had 8 children.
        All these years, we didn't think we were related to him, but now I suspect
        they are all kin to this same band/sibs, so they are likely cousins) who
        died a few years ago (the first Frank/Francis was my dad who also died 5
        years ago). It is my belief that Frank from Braddock (born 1888) was also
        a son of one of this same band of Kostyaks (Andres/Janos/Pal/Michely/et al)

        Finally, I see a Janos born1843 immigrated in 1889 on the Breman that I will
        take a wild guess and say he is the dad of this same band/sibs of Kostyaks.

        Finally, finally, I see an number of Janos Kostyak's. (born: 1843 (the one
        I just identified), 1862, (who I think is his son and one of this same
        band/sibs), 1871 (not sure who he is), 1875 (not sure who he is), 1878 (my
        grandfather as discussed) and 1886 (probably a child of one of the band/sibs
        discussed.

        Do you think I may be on the right track with all of this, or am I way off?
        Apparently, my family history center is closed the month of August.
        I'll be meeting with my newly hired genealogist, Elissa Powell here in
        Pittsburgh, next week.

        Thanks, Janet. I am determined to get this all right no matter how long it
        takes and how much it costs.

        Paul

        --- On Wed, 8/6/08, kozlay <kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay%40verizon.net>
        net> wrote:

        From: kozlay <kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay%40verizon.net> net>
        Subject: RE: [S-R] Johannes Kostak
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 7:47 AM

        Dear Paul,

        The Maria Miskovics who arrived on the Carpathia in 1910 was the husband of
        Mihaly (Michael) Miskovics. She was traveling with her five children to her
        husband in Uniontown PA. Her mother was Agnes Csaplak in Lassupatak.

        Maria Miscovics was single when she immigrated in 1904.

        Both the 1920 and 1930 censuses from Pittsburgh indicate that John Kostyak's
        wife, Mary, was six years younger than he, making her date of birth about
        1885. This corresponds to the age of Maria Miscovics on the manifest in
        1904.

        As for the date on Maria's tombstone, this sort of error is not uncommon.
        The date would have been provided by a family member who may not have been
        certain of her date of birth. The only definitive answer is to find her
        birth record in Slovakia.

        Clearly these two Marias were sisters-in-law.

        The occupational information on the members of the Kostyak family comes from
        the 1920 and 1930 censuses for Pittsburgh. This is a good illustration of
        how important it is to pay attention to all of the information provided.
        This is just as true when you begin looking at the church records from
        Slovakia. There is often far more information than simply dates of birth,
        marriage, death, and parentage, though it may not be obvious from first
        glance. When you locate entries for your family, be sure to make a copy of
        the entire page as well as close-ups of the individual entry. This will help
        you (and others) to glean as much information as possible from the record.
        It will be of interest, for instance, to see if John/Janos/Johannes came
        from a family of tailors or other craftsmen and whether they tended to marry
        other craftsmen, as opposed to farming peasants. This would be significant
        information relative to their social standing in the village and help you
        learn more about the actual lives they led. In the end, this will be of
        greater interest than just names and dates.

        Meanwhile, while you are waiting for films to come in, I concur that you
        would be well advised to learn all you can from Bill Tarkulich's site
        (www.iabsi.com) . There is so much valuable information there, you can spend
        several days going through it all and you may find yourself going back to it
        time and time again.

        Janet

        _____

        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com]
        On
        Behalf Of Paul Kostyak
        Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:27 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
        Cc: kaytsok@yahoo. com
        Subject: RE: [S-R] Johannes Kostak

        Hello Janet:

        Clearly, you have a thorough understanding of all of this. While I
        thought I had a good idea of Maria Miskovics record, you seem to be able to
        grasp things better.

        I am 100% sure that Janos was my grandfather. I plan to take a trip to
        the local family history center for more pieces to the puzzle in the next
        day or 2.

        I find it interesting that John/Janos/Johannes lists his father as Casparus
        and mother as Juliana. I guess it's possible that these two people never
        came over. I found other Kostyak's on manifests, including another Janos
        born in the 1860's. I suspect they are all related to me in some fashion.

        I have a different year of birth for Maria Miskovics. Her tombstone reads
        1883-1971. I remember her. Her brother was Michael. Does any of this
        additional information make you feel that you are still correct on your
        comments? I have a manifest from the Carpathia from September 17th,
        (1900 or 1910) that I thought was the correct family. Yours appears
        different.

        Also, how did you find out the great details that Louis was a errend boy for
        a flower shop, etc.?

        Any thoughts on any of this? Janet, I cannot tell you how indebted I am
        to you. We'll deal with that later.

        Thanks,
        Paul

        --- On Tue, 8/5/08, kozlay <kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay% 40verizon. net>
        net> wrote:

        From: kozlay <kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay% 40verizon. net> net>
        Subject: RE: [S-R] Johannes Kostak
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK- ROOTS%40yahoogro ups.com> yahoogroups. com
        Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 8:34 PM

        Paul,

        Maria Miscovics immigrated on February 14, 1904, from Szomolnok, also in
        Szepes county, to Connellsville PA. Her date of birth was 1885.

        Szomolnok is now Smolnik SK and is not far from old Lassupatak. Lassupatak
        went under a bewildering variety of names, including Stillbach and
        Henclofalva. It is now Henclova or Ticha Voda SK, which are essentially the
        same village. You can find Smolnik and Henclova on a modern map such as
        MapQuest and see how close they are.

        Roman Catholic church records are available for both places.
        Lassupatak/Henclofa lva/Ticha Voda (etc.) records are found with the village
        of Nalepkovo. You might find Maria's family in either place, so you would
        likely need to order the films from both.

        Janet

        _____

        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:SLOVAK- ROOTS@ yahoogroups.
        com]
        On
        Behalf Of Paul Kostyak
        Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 3:01 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
        Subject: [S-R] Johannes Kostak

        Hello everyone: My name is Paul Kostyak from Pittsburgh, PA. I am
        doing a family tree and I have spend countless hours trying to piece
        the puzzle together. Can you please help me? After I piece the
        Kostak puzzle together, I have two other important Hungarian puzzles,
        but let's start with Kostak.

        My father was Frank. Born 1923 and died 2003. He had several
        siblings which I have good information on.

        Their father was John Kostyak, with no further information. His
        tombstone reads 1878-1944. This is correct.

        I found a small receipt of unknown origin (1909 from his marriage
        license?) which lists his name as Johannes Kostak. No "Y". I
        believe this to be his true, original name. There are other
        Kostyak's from the same Szepes region, but I don't think they are
        related. I think I need to focus on Kostak. I am confident that
        his name was originally Johannes Kostak, because the spouse listed is
        absolutely correct. (his spouse, my grandmother, will be the next
        puzzle I tackle another day. Just fyi, her name was Maria Miscovics
        from Lassupatak, and her mother was Maria Krajniak and her father was
        Michael Miscovics)

        This same obscure receipt lists his father as Casparus Kostak from
        Sandok Szepes. His mother was listed as Juliana Kostak. I
        estimate their births to be around 1850, give or take a decade. I
        don't know her maiden name.

        For the purpose of clarity, I will refer to Johannes Kostak as John
        Kostyak from this point forward. In everything John did in his life
        starting around 1910, he was referred to as John Kostyak, not
        Johannes Kostak. John's residence was listed as Mt. Lebanon, PA on
        this obscure receipt. Other minor clues: on his application for
        marriage, his name appears as John Kostak from Dorman, PA. (There
        is a small borough called Dormont, PA next to Mt. Lebanon)

        So, I am looking for any information about Johannes Kostak from
        Sandok, born in 1878. Also, any information about John's father,
        Casparus, and John's mother, Juliana.

        Also, fyi, John was a tailor for Boggs and Buhl in Pittsburgh.

        My cell phone is 412-445-8780 if anyone needs further clarification.

        Thank you in advance for any insights you can give me.

        Paul

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ben Sorensen
        Hello all,   In my studies, I am finding that American sources are very wanting in finding original locations, and very often I find the place of birth or
        Message 3 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
          Hello all,
           
          In my studies, I am finding that American sources are very wanting in finding original locations, and very often I find the "place of birth" or "from" box reading "Germany" or another country- obviously, in this country there wasn't much importance given to exact locations. My prof (who is LDS) says that "one can use the IGI to find localities of origination, and it can save you alot of tedius research in American sources." I personally am hesitant about the IGI- what sources have given you the best luck? Personally, I am finding Death Records to be good- though one has to know geography for it to be of assistance. I can see this not working though... when those present don't know which city or village the person was from.  Petitions for citizenship are about worthless when trying to determine an exact location, I find, as they have the "renunciation FOREVER all allegiances adn fidelity to any Foreign Power (or something of the like)" and then are good
          at determining who was King and which province, but no cities, towns, or villages- so finding vitals in the old country is somewhat demanding.
           
          Which sources, then, have been the best for you?
          Ben




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • bill.tarkulich@iabsi.com
          Your prof is trying to limit you to the sources at his hand. that is, the FHL. He is also taking the easy way out. I ve already made my opinion known about
          Message 4 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
            Your prof is trying to limit you to the sources at his hand. that is, the
            FHL.
            He is also taking the easy way out.
            I've already made my opinion known about IGI. I would treat it as a clue,
            but never as authority.

            I have written extensively about birth sources.
            http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

            With regard to immigration records, the US did not legislate collection of
            detailed data until 1904.
            Look at any manifest before or after 1904 to see the difference. Before
            1904, America accepted most people with open arms (discrimination after
            arrival notwithstanding.)

            with regard to death records - dreadfully inaccurate. It may be working
            for your specific lineage, but I would not bet one crown upon it. Death
            information in the USA is never verified or validated on death
            certificates, except in extenuating circumstances (murder, imprisonment,
            war, etcetera.)

            Bill Tarkulich


            On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 06:06:58 -0700 (PDT), Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
            wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hello all,
            >
            > In my studies, I am finding that American sources are very wanting in
            > finding original locations, and very often I find the "place of birth" or
            > "from" box reading "Germany" or another country- obviously, in this
            country
            > there wasn't much importance given to exact locations. My prof (who is
            LDS)
            > says that "one can use the IGI to find localities of origination, and it
            > can save you alot of tedius research in American sources." I personally
            am
            > hesitant about the IGI- what sources have given you the best luck?
            > Personally, I am finding Death Records to be good- though one has to know
            > geography for it to be of assistance. I can see this not working
            though...
            > when those present don't know which city or village the person was from.
            > Petitions for citizenship are about worthless when trying to determine an
            > exact location, I find, as they have the "renunciation FOREVER all
            > allegiances adn fidelity to any Foreign Power (or something of the like)"
            > and then are good
            > at determining who was King and which province, but no cities, towns, or
            > villages- so finding vitals in the old country is somewhat demanding.
            >
            > Which sources, then, have been the best for you?
            > Ben
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
            > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • Ben Sorensen
            ... From: bill.tarkulich@iabsi.com Subject: RE: [S-R] primary American sources To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday,
            Message 5 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
              --- On Thu, 8/7/08, bill.tarkulich@... <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:

              From: bill.tarkulich@... <bill.tarkulich@...>
              Subject: RE: [S-R] primary American sources
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 3:53 PM







              Your prof is trying to limit you to the sources at his hand. that is, the
              FHL.
              He is also taking the easy way out.
              I've already made my opinion known about IGI. I would treat it as a clue,
              but never as authority.

              I have written extensively about birth sources.
              http://www.iabsi. com/gen/public/ ancestral_ village.htm

              With regard to immigration records, the US did not legislate collection of
              detailed data until 1904.
              Look at any manifest before or after 1904 to see the difference. Before
              1904, America accepted most people with open arms (discrimination after
              arrival notwithstanding. )

              with regard to death records - dreadfully inaccurate. It may be working
              for your specific lineage, but I would not bet one crown upon it. Death
              information in the USA is never verified or validated on death
              certificates, except in extenuating circumstances (murder, imprisonment,
              war, etcetera.)

              Bill Tarkulich

              On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 06:06:58 -0700 (PDT), Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@yahoo. com>
              wrote:
              >
              >
              > Hello all,
              >
              > In my studies, I am finding that American sources are very wanting in
              > finding original locations, and very often I find the "place of birth" or
              > "from" box reading "Germany" or another country- obviously, in this
              country
              > there wasn't much importance given to exact locations. My prof (who is
              LDS)
              > says that "one can use the IGI to find localities of origination, and it
              > can save you alot of tedius research in American sources." I personally
              am
              > hesitant about the IGI- what sources have given you the best luck?
              > Personally, I am finding Death Records to be good- though one has to know
              > geography for it to be of assistance. I can see this not working
              though...
              > when those present don't know which city or village the person was from.
              > Petitions for citizenship are about worthless when trying to determine an
              > exact location, I find, as they have the "renunciation FOREVER all
              > allegiances adn fidelity to any Foreign Power (or something of the like)"
              > and then are good
              > at determining who was King and which province, but no cities, towns, or
              > villages- so finding vitals in the old country is somewhat demanding.
              >
              > Which sources, then, have been the best for you?
              > Ben
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              > ------------ --------- --------- ------
              >
              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SLOVAK- ROOTS/
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              > http://www.yahoogro ups.com/group/ SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
              > SLOVAK-ROOTS- unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. comYahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >

















              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ben Sorensen
              I am so sorry that there is a blank post on its way.  My hand malfunctioned and clicked the send button on its own. I am very sorry. Ben ... From:
              Message 6 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                I am so sorry that there is a blank post on its way.  My hand malfunctioned and clicked the send button on its own. I am very sorry.
                Ben

                --- On Thu, 8/7/08, bill.tarkulich@... <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:

                From: bill.tarkulich@... <bill.tarkulich@...>
                Subject: RE: [S-R] primary American sources
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 3:53 PM







                Your prof is trying to limit you to the sources at his hand. that is, the
                FHL.
                He is also taking the easy way out.
                I've already made my opinion known about IGI. I would treat it as a clue,
                but never as authority.

                I have written extensively about birth sources.
                http://www.iabsi. com/gen/public/ ancestral_ village.htm

                With regard to immigration records, the US did not legislate collection of
                detailed data until 1904.
                Look at any manifest before or after 1904 to see the difference. Before
                1904, America accepted most people with open arms (discrimination after
                arrival notwithstanding. )

                with regard to death records - dreadfully inaccurate. It may be working
                for your specific lineage, but I would not bet one crown upon it. Death
                information in the USA is never verified or validated on death
                certificates, except in extenuating circumstances (murder, imprisonment,
                war, etcetera.)

                Bill Tarkulich

                On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 06:06:58 -0700 (PDT), Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@yahoo. com>
                wrote:
                >
                >
                > Hello all,
                >
                > In my studies, I am finding that American sources are very wanting in
                > finding original locations, and very often I find the "place of birth" or
                > "from" box reading "Germany" or another country- obviously, in this
                country
                > there wasn't much importance given to exact locations. My prof (who is
                LDS)
                > says that "one can use the IGI to find localities of origination, and it
                > can save you alot of tedius research in American sources." I personally
                am
                > hesitant about the IGI- what sources have given you the best luck?
                > Personally, I am finding Death Records to be good- though one has to know
                > geography for it to be of assistance. I can see this not working
                though...
                > when those present don't know which city or village the person was from.
                > Petitions for citizenship are about worthless when trying to determine an
                > exact location, I find, as they have the "renunciation FOREVER all
                > allegiances adn fidelity to any Foreign Power (or something of the like)"
                > and then are good
                > at determining who was King and which province, but no cities, towns, or
                > villages- so finding vitals in the old country is somewhat demanding.
                >
                > Which sources, then, have been the best for you?
                > Ben
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                >
                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SLOVAK- ROOTS/
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                > http://www.yahoogro ups.com/group/ SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                > SLOVAK-ROOTS- unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. comYahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >

















                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • ssultonia
                Ben, I had the opposite experience with Petitions for Citizenship. That was the first place that gave me a clue where my GF was born. He listed the village
                Message 7 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                  Ben,
                  I had the opposite experience with Petitions for Citizenship. That
                  was the first place that gave me a clue where my GF was born. He
                  listed the village where he was born as "Almas" and through some kind
                  folks on this forum I learned that it was now Jablonov. That was the
                  breakthrough I needed and from there the LDS films helped fill in most
                  of the blanks. He also listed his last place of residence before
                  leaving as "Lucksa", which is right around the corner from Jablonov.
                  So, I guess it shows how much the records vary and that what works for
                  one may not for another depending on the time and location when the
                  documents were originated.
                  Cheers,
                  Bill
                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hello all,
                  >
                  > In my studies, I am finding that American sources are very wanting
                  in finding original locations, and very often I find the "place of
                  birth" or "from" box reading "Germany" or another country- obviously,
                  in this country there wasn't much importance given to exact locations.
                  My prof (who is LDS) says that "one can use the IGI to find localities
                  of origination, and it can save you alot of tedius research in
                  American sources." I personally am hesitant about the IGI- what
                  sources have given you the best luck? Personally, I am finding Death
                  Records to be good- though one has to know geography for it to be of
                  assistance. I can see this not working though... when those present
                  don't know which city or village the person was from. Petitions for
                  citizenship are about worthless when trying to determine an exact
                  location, I find, as they have the "renunciation FOREVER all
                  allegiances adn fidelity to any Foreign Power (or something of the
                  like)" and then are good
                  > at determining who was King and which province, but no cities,
                  towns, or villages- so finding vitals in the old country is somewhat
                  demanding.
                  >
                  > Which sources, then, have been the best for you?
                  > Ben
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • kozlay
                  There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It is the Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the place of
                  Message 8 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                    There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It is the
                    Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                    place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and usually does
                    not contain this information. See
                    http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.



                    Janet





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • PAULA BYRD
                    Janet, do you have an email address that works, this one says not found Paula ... From: kozlay To:
                    Message 9 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                      Janet,

                      do you have an email address that works, this one says not found

                      Paula
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: kozlay<mailto:kozlay@...>
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 3:39 PM
                      Subject: RE: [S-R] primary American sources


                      There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It is the
                      Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                      place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and usually does
                      not contain this information. See
                      http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.<http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.>

                      Janet

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • kozlay
                      Paula, I am in the midst of changing my email address from kozlay@comcast.net to kozlay@verizon.net. I don t know why you have had problems since I believe I
                      Message 10 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                        Paula, I am in the midst of changing my email address from
                        kozlay@... to kozlay@.... I don't know why you have had
                        problems since I believe I am receiving emails at the new address. You can
                        also try me at kozlay@....



                        Janet





                        _____

                        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of PAULA BYRD
                        Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 6:51 PM
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [S-R] primary American sources



                        Janet,

                        do you have an email address that works, this one says not found

                        Paula
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: kozlay<mailto:kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay%40verizon.net> net>
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                        yahoogroups.com<mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                        yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 3:39 PM
                        Subject: RE: [S-R] primary American sources

                        There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It is the
                        Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                        place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and usually does
                        not contain this information. See
                        http://www.genealog <http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.>
                        ybranches.com/naturalization.html.<http://www.genealog
                        <http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.>
                        ybranches.com/naturalization.html.>

                        Janet

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • ssultonia
                        Janet, Oops. You re right. I quoted the wrong document. Sorry for the confusion Ben. The Declaration of Intent is where I got my big break. Regards. Bill ...
                        Message 11 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                          Janet,
                          Oops. You're right. I quoted the wrong document. Sorry for the
                          confusion Ben. The Declaration of Intent is where I got my big break.
                          Regards.
                          Bill

                          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It
                          is the
                          > Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                          > place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and
                          usually does
                          > not contain this information. See
                          > http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Janet
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • PAULA BYRD
                          Janet, I was meaning the adrdess for the first papers.When you click on the
                          Message 12 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                            Janet,

                            I was meaning the adrdess for the first papers.When you click on the www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html<http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html> and the other one you have listed , it brings up a site that says not found.

                            Paula
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: kozlay<mailto:kozlay@...>
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 6:18 PM
                            Subject: RE: [S-R] primary American sources


                            Paula, I am in the midst of changing my email address from
                            kozlay@...<mailto:kozlay@...> to kozlay@...<mailto:kozlay@...>. I don't know why you have had
                            problems since I believe I am receiving emails at the new address. You can
                            also try me at kozlay@...<mailto:kozlay@...>.

                            Janet

                            _____

                            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                            Behalf Of PAULA BYRD
                            Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 6:51 PM
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] primary American sources

                            Janet,

                            do you have an email address that works, this one says not found

                            Paula
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: kozlay<mailto:kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay%40verizon.net> net>
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                            yahoogroups.com<mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                            yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 3:39 PM
                            Subject: RE: [S-R] primary American sources

                            There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It is the
                            Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                            place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and usually does
                            not contain this information. See
                            http://www.genealog<http://www.genealog/> <http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.<http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.>>
                            ybranches.com/naturalization.html.<http://www.genealog<http://www.genealog/>
                            <http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.<http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.>>
                            ybranches.com/naturalization.html.>

                            Janet

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • MEMcDTT@aol.com
                            In a message dated 8/7/2008 5:58:33 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, crazyquilter3@msn.com writes:
                            Message 13 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                              In a message dated 8/7/2008 5:58:33 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                              crazyquilter3@... writes:

                              <_http://www.genealoghttp://wwwhttp://www.geneahttp://w_
                              (http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.) >>


                              See the period after "html" that is what caused the problem

                              Janet wrote,

                              I was meaning the adrdess for the first papers.When you click on the
                              www.genealogybranchI was meaning thI was
                              mean<_http://www.genealoghttp://wwwhttp://www.geneahttp://_ (http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html) > and
                              the other one you have listed , it brings up a site that says not found.



                              **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
                              Read reviews on AOL Autos.
                              (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Ben Sorensen
                              I see what you all mean, and I am thankful for the opinions. I am doing a practice tree, and one of the Declarations of Intention from Wisconsin states that
                              Message 14 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                                I see what you all mean, and I am thankful for the opinions. I am doing a practice tree, and one of the Declarations of Intention from Wisconsin states that one of my subjects was born in "Prussia." Not exactly a place of origin... :-)
                                 
                                Because most of what I am doing is theory with preset "practicals," I am very thankful for your "real-world" experience! I have been already warned, many times in class and out, of the poverty of American records before 1900.
                                 
                                EVEN IN SPITE of some of the ideas about FHL and IGI in this course, it has taught me how to get the most out of primary sources, and I would definitely recommend it to anyone.  I am thoroughly enjoying this, and this group...
                                Ben

                                --- On Fri, 8/8/08, ssultonia <wasmore@...> wrote:

                                From: ssultonia <wasmore@...>
                                Subject: Re: [S-R] primary American sources
                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Friday, August 8, 2008, 2:37 AM






                                Janet,
                                Oops. You're right. I quoted the wrong document. Sorry for the
                                confusion Ben. The Declaration of Intent is where I got my big break.
                                Regards.
                                Bill

                                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com, "kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It
                                is the
                                > Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                                > place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and
                                usually does
                                > not contain this information. See
                                > http://www.genealog ybranches. com/naturalizati on.html.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Janet
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >


















                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • kozlay
                                Here, let s try it one more time: http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html Janet [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                Message 15 of 25 , Aug 8, 2008
                                  Here, let's try it one more time:



                                  http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html



                                  Janet





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • bill.tarkulich@iabsi.com
                                  I never hang my hat on a single data point. Unless there is overwhelming circumstantial evidence that points to the data being correct, I insist on a second
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Aug 8, 2008
                                    I never hang my hat on a single data point. Unless there is overwhelming
                                    circumstantial evidence that points to the data being correct, I insist on
                                    a second independent authoritative source to corroborate it. yea, I'm
                                    being a broken record.

                                    so if what you are doing is "theory", THE most important thing you can do
                                    is to cite and record sources for all data. That way, when you go back,
                                    people can develop their own opinions about whether the data element is
                                    credible.

                                    Regarding "Prussia". Don't be so quick to throw out the baby with the bath
                                    water. One inaccurate data element is not necessarily grounds to discount
                                    the whole document. It is never clear to me who the source of the
                                    information was for all or part of this information. Self? Clerk?
                                    Offspring? Friend? In some cases, it was simply confusion on the part of
                                    the immigrant. In most cases these folk were ignorant (not stupid),
                                    illiterate rural folks from small obscure region.

                                    Regards,
                                    Bill



                                    On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 19:58:45 -0700 (PDT), Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > I see what you all mean, and I am thankful for the opinions. I am doing a
                                    > practice tree, and one of the Declarations of Intention from Wisconsin
                                    > states that one of my subjects was born in "Prussia." Not exactly a place
                                    > of origin... :-)
                                    >
                                    > Because most of what I am doing is theory with preset "practicals," I am
                                    > very thankful for your "real-world" experience! I have been already
                                    warned,
                                    > many times in class and out, of the poverty of American records before
                                    > 1900.
                                    >
                                    > EVEN IN SPITE of some of the ideas about FHL and IGI in this course, it
                                    > has taught me how to get the most out of primary sources, and I would
                                    > definitely recommend it to anyone. I am thoroughly enjoying this, and
                                    > this group...
                                    > Ben
                                    >
                                    > --- On Fri, 8/8/08, ssultonia <wasmore@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > From: ssultonia <wasmore@...>
                                    > Subject: Re: [S-R] primary American sources
                                    > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Date: Friday, August 8, 2008, 2:37 AM
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Janet,
                                    > Oops. You're right. I quoted the wrong document. Sorry for the
                                    > confusion Ben. The Declaration of Intent is where I got my big break.
                                    > Regards.
                                    > Bill
                                    >
                                    > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com, "kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >> There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It
                                    > is the
                                    >> Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                                    >> place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and
                                    > usually does
                                    >> not contain this information. See
                                    >> http://www.genealog ybranches. com/naturalizati on.html.
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> Janet
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                                    >
                                    > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                    > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                                    > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Margo Smith
                                    Ben -- poverty of American records before 1900 ?  In my experience, there are many more American records available than SK records.  Once a US location
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Aug 8, 2008
                                      Ben -- "poverty of American records before 1900"?  In my experience, there are many more American records available than SK records.  Once a US location became a county, there are often a lot of records.  Of course, there are too many "burned courthouse" cases.
                                       
                                      Margo

                                      --- On Fri, 8/8/08, bill.tarkulich@... <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:

                                      From: bill.tarkulich@... <bill.tarkulich@...>
                                      Subject: Re: [S-R] primary American sources
                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Friday, August 8, 2008, 8:10 AM







                                      I never hang my hat on a single data point. Unless there is overwhelming
                                      circumstantial evidence that points to the data being correct, I insist on
                                      a second independent authoritative source to corroborate it. yea, I'm
                                      being a broken record.

                                      so if what you are doing is "theory", THE most important thing you can do
                                      is to cite and record sources for all data. That way, when you go back,
                                      people can develop their own opinions about whether the data element is
                                      credible.

                                      Regarding "Prussia". Don't be so quick to throw out the baby with the bath
                                      water. One inaccurate data element is not necessarily grounds to discount
                                      the whole document. It is never clear to me who the source of the
                                      information was for all or part of this information. Self? Clerk?
                                      Offspring? Friend? In some cases, it was simply confusion on the part of
                                      the immigrant. In most cases these folk were ignorant (not stupid),
                                      illiterate rural folks from small obscure region.

                                      Regards,
                                      Bill

                                      On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 19:58:45 -0700 (PDT), Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@yahoo. com>
                                      wrote:
                                      > I see what you all mean, and I am thankful for the opinions. I am doing a
                                      > practice tree, and one of the Declarations of Intention from Wisconsin
                                      > states that one of my subjects was born in "Prussia." Not exactly a place
                                      > of origin... :-)
                                      >
                                      > Because most of what I am doing is theory with preset "practicals, " I am
                                      > very thankful for your "real-world" experience! I have been already
                                      warned,
                                      > many times in class and out, of the poverty of American records before
                                      > 1900.
                                      >
                                      > EVEN IN SPITE of some of the ideas about FHL and IGI in this course, it
                                      > has taught me how to get the most out of primary sources, and I would
                                      > definitely recommend it to anyone. I am thoroughly enjoying this, and
                                      > this group...
                                      > Ben
                                      >
                                      > --- On Fri, 8/8/08, ssultonia <wasmore@att. net> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > From: ssultonia <wasmore@att. net>
                                      > Subject: Re: [S-R] primary American sources
                                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
                                      > Date: Friday, August 8, 2008, 2:37 AM
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Janet,
                                      > Oops. You're right. I quoted the wrong document. Sorry for the
                                      > confusion Ben. The Declaration of Intent is where I got my big break.
                                      > Regards.
                                      > Bill
                                      >
                                      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com, "kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
                                      >>
                                      >> There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It
                                      > is the
                                      >> Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                                      >> place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and
                                      > usually does
                                      >> not contain this information. See
                                      >> http://www.genealog ybranches. com/naturalizati on.html.
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >> Janet
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                                      >
                                      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SLOVAK- ROOTS/
                                      >
                                      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                      > http://www.yahoogro ups.com/group/ SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                                      > SLOVAK-ROOTS- unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. comYahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >

















                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.