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Re: Johannes Kostak

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  • johnqadam
    DON T dwell on spelling. It all depends on whether the particular spelling convention is Hungarian, Slovak or Latin on a document. All may have been used to
    Message 1 of 25 , Aug 5, 2008
      DON'T dwell on spelling. It all depends on whether the particular
      spelling convention is Hungarian, Slovak or Latin on a document. All
      may have been used to decribe the same person. Slovak convention may
      have spelled it as Kost'ak. Note the apostrophe after the t.

      I could give you a few more versions of John but it wouldn't be helful.

      When searching for genealogical information, knowing the birth village
      is paramount because records are organized by village not nationally,
      so it is not possible to search on a national basis. It is also
      necessary to know the religion. To locate church records for Slovakia,
      knowing the village/town name, go to the LDS web site:
      www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp The church
      records cover baptisms (krsteni), marriages (sobeseni) and deaths
      (zomreli).
    • kozlay
      Dear Paul, Your grandfather immigrated under the name Janos Kostyak on May 23, 1900, aboard the Bremen. The ship manifest is very difficult to read but his
      Message 2 of 25 , Aug 5, 2008
        Dear Paul,



        Your grandfather immigrated under the name Janos Kostyak on May 23, 1900,
        aboard the Bremen. The ship manifest is very difficult to read but his place
        of origin appears similar to Sandok (see later). The transcription says he
        was born in 1868, but that is because his age was read incorrectly. It
        should have been 1878 (age 22, not 32). His destination was his
        brother-in-law in New York, but no name was given. He was a tailor.



        According to his World War I registration, his date of birth was May 15,
        1878.



        John Kostyak appears in the 1920 census for Pittsburgh with his wife Mary
        and children Rudolf, Annie, and John Jr. He was naturalized in 1913. His
        native language is listed as Hungarian (probably incorrect). He was a tailor
        for a department store.



        In 1930 he and Mary are still in Pittsburgh, and he is still a tailor with a
        retail store. This record identifies him as having been born in
        Czechoslovakia and speaking "Czech" (probably Slovak). His children were
        Rudolph, 19, helper in a drugstore; Louis, 17, errand boy for a florist
        shop; Annie, 15; Margaret, 9; and Frank 7, all three attending school.
        (Perhaps John Jr. had died.) He continues to be a tailor for a retail store.
        He was 31 years old when he married.



        "Sandok" is actually most likely Landok in Szepes county. (Capital S and L
        are very similar in the older writings.) Landok was also spelled Landek,
        Lendak, and Lyendak. It had a population of about 1000, almost all of them
        Roman Catholic. Microfilms of the church records are available at your
        nearest Family History Center 1742-1896 under the spelling Landek. From
        those records you should be able to fill out all of the information about
        his family and perhaps trace the family back several generations.



        Have fun,

        Janet













        _____

        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of johnqadam
        Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 4:05 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [S-R] Re: Johannes Kostak



        DON'T dwell on spelling. It all depends on whether the particular
        spelling convention is Hungarian, Slovak or Latin on a document. All
        may have been used to decribe the same person. Slovak convention may
        have spelled it as Kost'ak. Note the apostrophe after the t.

        I could give you a few more versions of John but it wouldn't be helful.

        When searching for genealogical information, knowing the birth village
        is paramount because records are organized by village not nationally,
        so it is not possible to search on a national basis. It is also
        necessary to know the religion. To locate church records for Slovakia,
        knowing the village/town name, go to the LDS web site:
        www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp The church
        records cover baptisms (krsteni), marriages (sobeseni) and deaths
        (zomreli).





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • kozlay
        Paul, Maria Miscovics immigrated on February 14, 1904, from Szomolnok, also in Szepes county, to Connellsville PA. Her date of birth was 1885. Szomolnok is now
        Message 3 of 25 , Aug 5, 2008
          Paul,



          Maria Miscovics immigrated on February 14, 1904, from Szomolnok, also in
          Szepes county, to Connellsville PA. Her date of birth was 1885.



          Szomolnok is now Smolnik SK and is not far from old Lassupatak. Lassupatak
          went under a bewildering variety of names, including Stillbach and
          Henclofalva. It is now Henclova or Ticha Voda SK, which are essentially the
          same village. You can find Smolnik and Henclova on a modern map such as
          MapQuest and see how close they are.



          Roman Catholic church records are available for both places.
          Lassupatak/Henclofalva/Ticha Voda (etc.) records are found with the village
          of Nalepkovo. You might find Maria's family in either place, so you would
          likely need to order the films from both.



          Janet



          _____

          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Paul Kostyak
          Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 3:01 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [S-R] Johannes Kostak



          Hello everyone: My name is Paul Kostyak from Pittsburgh, PA. I am
          doing a family tree and I have spend countless hours trying to piece
          the puzzle together. Can you please help me? After I piece the
          Kostak puzzle together, I have two other important Hungarian puzzles,
          but let's start with Kostak.

          My father was Frank. Born 1923 and died 2003. He had several
          siblings which I have good information on.

          Their father was John Kostyak, with no further information. His
          tombstone reads 1878-1944. This is correct.

          I found a small receipt of unknown origin (1909 from his marriage
          license?) which lists his name as Johannes Kostak. No "Y". I
          believe this to be his true, original name. There are other
          Kostyak's from the same Szepes region, but I don't think they are
          related. I think I need to focus on Kostak. I am confident that
          his name was originally Johannes Kostak, because the spouse listed is
          absolutely correct. (his spouse, my grandmother, will be the next
          puzzle I tackle another day. Just fyi, her name was Maria Miscovics
          from Lassupatak, and her mother was Maria Krajniak and her father was
          Michael Miscovics)

          This same obscure receipt lists his father as Casparus Kostak from
          Sandok Szepes. His mother was listed as Juliana Kostak. I
          estimate their births to be around 1850, give or take a decade. I
          don't know her maiden name.

          For the purpose of clarity, I will refer to Johannes Kostak as John
          Kostyak from this point forward. In everything John did in his life
          starting around 1910, he was referred to as John Kostyak, not
          Johannes Kostak. John's residence was listed as Mt. Lebanon, PA on
          this obscure receipt. Other minor clues: on his application for
          marriage, his name appears as John Kostak from Dorman, PA. (There
          is a small borough called Dormont, PA next to Mt. Lebanon)

          So, I am looking for any information about Johannes Kostak from
          Sandok, born in 1878. Also, any information about John's father,
          Casparus, and John's mother, Juliana.

          Also, fyi, John was a tailor for Boggs and Buhl in Pittsburgh.

          My cell phone is 412-445-8780 if anyone needs further clarification.

          Thank you in advance for any insights you can give me.

          Paul





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • johnqadam
          ... Janet has given you the particulars on the old church records. Being new to the game, you should revieww all the info on Bill Tarkulich s web site. BASIC
          Message 4 of 25 , Aug 5, 2008
            >>> Thank you in advance for any insights you can give me. <<<

            Janet has given you the particulars on the old church records. Being
            new to the game, you should revieww all the info on Bill Tarkulich's
            web site.

            BASIC RESEARCH HELP
            For basic research help, be sure to visit Bill Tarkulich's excellent
            site at http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/

            CURRENT MAP
            To locate places in Europe, especially if you are not sure of the
            proper spelling of the place name, the best reference is found at
            http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm

            ShtetlSeeker will take you there via Mapquest, Multimap or Google.

            1910 HUNGARIAN MAP
            The old Hungarian map can be found at:
            http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/szepes.jpg

            Look at the bottom of the map for your villages.

            SAVE the map on YOUR computer. OPEN the map in any graphics program.
            CUT and PRINT the relevant section of the map. Otherwise, you just
            get a corner. This map uses the Hungarian village names that you will
            likely find in church records.
          • kozlay
            Dear Paul, The Maria Miskovics who arrived on the Carpathia in 1910 was the husband of Mihaly (Michael) Miskovics. She was traveling with her five children to
            Message 5 of 25 , Aug 6, 2008
              Dear Paul,



              The Maria Miskovics who arrived on the Carpathia in 1910 was the husband of
              Mihaly (Michael) Miskovics. She was traveling with her five children to her
              husband in Uniontown PA. Her mother was Agnes Csaplak in Lassupatak.



              Maria Miscovics was single when she immigrated in 1904.



              Both the 1920 and 1930 censuses from Pittsburgh indicate that John Kostyak's
              wife, Mary, was six years younger than he, making her date of birth about
              1885. This corresponds to the age of Maria Miscovics on the manifest in
              1904.



              As for the date on Maria's tombstone, this sort of error is not uncommon.
              The date would have been provided by a family member who may not have been
              certain of her date of birth. The only definitive answer is to find her
              birth record in Slovakia.



              Clearly these two Marias were sisters-in-law.



              The occupational information on the members of the Kostyak family comes from
              the 1920 and 1930 censuses for Pittsburgh. This is a good illustration of
              how important it is to pay attention to all of the information provided.
              This is just as true when you begin looking at the church records from
              Slovakia. There is often far more information than simply dates of birth,
              marriage, death, and parentage, though it may not be obvious from first
              glance. When you locate entries for your family, be sure to make a copy of
              the entire page as well as close-ups of the individual entry. This will help
              you (and others) to glean as much information as possible from the record.
              It will be of interest, for instance, to see if John/Janos/Johannes came
              from a family of tailors or other craftsmen and whether they tended to marry
              other craftsmen, as opposed to farming peasants. This would be significant
              information relative to their social standing in the village and help you
              learn more about the actual lives they led. In the end, this will be of
              greater interest than just names and dates.



              Meanwhile, while you are waiting for films to come in, I concur that you
              would be well advised to learn all you can from Bill Tarkulich's site
              (www.iabsi.com). There is so much valuable information there, you can spend
              several days going through it all and you may find yourself going back to it
              time and time again.



              Janet



              _____

              From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Paul Kostyak
              Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:27 AM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Cc: kaytsok@...
              Subject: RE: [S-R] Johannes Kostak



              Hello Janet:

              Clearly, you have a thorough understanding of all of this. While I
              thought I had a good idea of Maria Miskovics record, you seem to be able to
              grasp things better.

              I am 100% sure that Janos was my grandfather. I plan to take a trip to
              the local family history center for more pieces to the puzzle in the next
              day or 2.

              I find it interesting that John/Janos/Johannes lists his father as Casparus
              and mother as Juliana. I guess it's possible that these two people never
              came over. I found other Kostyak's on manifests, including another Janos
              born in the 1860's. I suspect they are all related to me in some fashion.


              I have a different year of birth for Maria Miskovics. Her tombstone reads
              1883-1971. I remember her. Her brother was Michael. Does any of this
              additional information make you feel that you are still correct on your
              comments? I have a manifest from the Carpathia from September 17th,
              (1900 or 1910) that I thought was the correct family. Yours appears
              different.

              Also, how did you find out the great details that Louis was a errend boy for
              a flower shop, etc.?

              Any thoughts on any of this? Janet, I cannot tell you how indebted I am
              to you. We'll deal with that later.

              Thanks,
              Paul

              --- On Tue, 8/5/08, kozlay <kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay%40verizon.net>
              net> wrote:

              From: kozlay <kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay%40verizon.net> net>
              Subject: RE: [S-R] Johannes Kostak
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 8:34 PM

              Paul,

              Maria Miscovics immigrated on February 14, 1904, from Szomolnok, also in
              Szepes county, to Connellsville PA. Her date of birth was 1885.

              Szomolnok is now Smolnik SK and is not far from old Lassupatak. Lassupatak
              went under a bewildering variety of names, including Stillbach and
              Henclofalva. It is now Henclova or Ticha Voda SK, which are essentially the
              same village. You can find Smolnik and Henclova on a modern map such as
              MapQuest and see how close they are.

              Roman Catholic church records are available for both places.
              Lassupatak/Henclofa lva/Ticha Voda (etc.) records are found with the village
              of Nalepkovo. You might find Maria's family in either place, so you would
              likely need to order the films from both.

              Janet

              _____

              From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com]
              On
              Behalf Of Paul Kostyak
              Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 3:01 PM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
              Subject: [S-R] Johannes Kostak

              Hello everyone: My name is Paul Kostyak from Pittsburgh, PA. I am
              doing a family tree and I have spend countless hours trying to piece
              the puzzle together. Can you please help me? After I piece the
              Kostak puzzle together, I have two other important Hungarian puzzles,
              but let's start with Kostak.

              My father was Frank. Born 1923 and died 2003. He had several
              siblings which I have good information on.

              Their father was John Kostyak, with no further information. His
              tombstone reads 1878-1944. This is correct.

              I found a small receipt of unknown origin (1909 from his marriage
              license?) which lists his name as Johannes Kostak. No "Y". I
              believe this to be his true, original name. There are other
              Kostyak's from the same Szepes region, but I don't think they are
              related. I think I need to focus on Kostak. I am confident that
              his name was originally Johannes Kostak, because the spouse listed is
              absolutely correct. (his spouse, my grandmother, will be the next
              puzzle I tackle another day. Just fyi, her name was Maria Miscovics
              from Lassupatak, and her mother was Maria Krajniak and her father was
              Michael Miscovics)

              This same obscure receipt lists his father as Casparus Kostak from
              Sandok Szepes. His mother was listed as Juliana Kostak. I
              estimate their births to be around 1850, give or take a decade. I
              don't know her maiden name.

              For the purpose of clarity, I will refer to Johannes Kostak as John
              Kostyak from this point forward. In everything John did in his life
              starting around 1910, he was referred to as John Kostyak, not
              Johannes Kostak. John's residence was listed as Mt. Lebanon, PA on
              this obscure receipt. Other minor clues: on his application for
              marriage, his name appears as John Kostak from Dorman, PA. (There
              is a small borough called Dormont, PA next to Mt. Lebanon)

              So, I am looking for any information about Johannes Kostak from
              Sandok, born in 1878. Also, any information about John's father,
              Casparus, and John's mother, Juliana.

              Also, fyi, John was a tailor for Boggs and Buhl in Pittsburgh.

              My cell phone is 412-445-8780 if anyone needs further clarification.

              Thank you in advance for any insights you can give me.

              Paul

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • betseyannk
              Paul, It looks like your grandparents naturalization records may be on www.footnote.com. Just search on Kostyak. Good Luck. Betsey Ann ... reflected on all
              Message 6 of 25 , Aug 6, 2008
                Paul,

                It looks like your grandparents naturalization records may be on
                www.footnote.com. Just search on "Kostyak."

                Good Luck.
                Betsey Ann


                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Paul Kostyak <kaytsok@...> wrote:
                >
                > You are the best. After I have looked at Bill's website and
                reflected on all of this, I will be back to you. I am overwhelmed
                (in a good way!)
                >
                > Paul
                >
                > --- On Wed, 8/6/08, kozlay <kozlay@...> wrote:
                >
                > From: kozlay <kozlay@...>
                > Subject: RE: [S-R] Johannes Kostak
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 7:47 AM
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Dear Paul,
                >
                > The Maria Miskovics who arrived on the Carpathia in 1910 was the
                husband of
                > Mihaly (Michael) Miskovics. She was traveling with her five children
                to her
                > husband in Uniontown PA. Her mother was Agnes Csaplak in Lassupatak.
                >
                > Maria Miscovics was single when she immigrated in 1904.
                >
                > Both the 1920 and 1930 censuses from Pittsburgh indicate that John
                Kostyak's
                > wife, Mary, was six years younger than he, making her date of birth
                about
                > 1885. This corresponds to the age of Maria Miscovics on the manifest in
                > 1904.
                >
                > As for the date on Maria's tombstone, this sort of error is not
                uncommon.
                > The date would have been provided by a family member who may not
                have been
                > certain of her date of birth. The only definitive answer is to find her
                > birth record in Slovakia.
                >
                > Clearly these two Marias were sisters-in-law.
                >
                > The occupational information on the members of the Kostyak family
                comes from
                > the 1920 and 1930 censuses for Pittsburgh. This is a good
                illustration of
                > how important it is to pay attention to all of the information provided.
                > This is just as true when you begin looking at the church records from
                > Slovakia. There is often far more information than simply dates of
                birth,
                > marriage, death, and parentage, though it may not be obvious from first
                > glance. When you locate entries for your family, be sure to make a
                copy of
                > the entire page as well as close-ups of the individual entry. This
                will help
                > you (and others) to glean as much information as possible from the
                record.
                > It will be of interest, for instance, to see if John/Janos/Johannes came
                > from a family of tailors or other craftsmen and whether they tended
                to marry
                > other craftsmen, as opposed to farming peasants. This would be
                significant
                > information relative to their social standing in the village and
                help you
                > learn more about the actual lives they led. In the end, this will be of
                > greater interest than just names and dates.
                >
                > Meanwhile, while you are waiting for films to come in, I concur that you
                > would be well advised to learn all you can from Bill Tarkulich's site
                > (www.iabsi.com) . There is so much valuable information there, you
                can spend
                > several days going through it all and you may find yourself going
                back to it
                > time and time again.
                >
                > Janet
                >
                > _____
                >
                > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@
                yahoogroups. com] On
                > Behalf Of Paul Kostyak
                > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:27 AM
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
                > Cc: kaytsok@yahoo. com
                > Subject: RE: [S-R] Johannes Kostak
                >
                > Hello Janet:
                >
                > Clearly, you have a thorough understanding of all of this. While I
                > thought I had a good idea of Maria Miskovics record, you seem to be
                able to
                > grasp things better.
                >
                > I am 100% sure that Janos was my grandfather. I plan to take a trip to
                > the local family history center for more pieces to the puzzle in the
                next
                > day or 2.
                >
                > I find it interesting that John/Janos/Johannes lists his father as
                Casparus
                > and mother as Juliana. I guess it's possible that these two people never
                > came over. I found other Kostyak's on manifests, including another Janos
                > born in the 1860's. I suspect they are all related to me in some
                fashion.
                >
                > I have a different year of birth for Maria Miskovics. Her tombstone
                reads
                > 1883-1971. I remember her. Her brother was Michael. Does any of this
                > additional information make you feel that you are still correct on your
                > comments? I have a manifest from the Carpathia from September 17th,
                > (1900 or 1910) that I thought was the correct family. Yours appears
                > different.
                >
                > Also, how did you find out the great details that Louis was a errend
                boy for
                > a flower shop, etc.?
                >
                > Any thoughts on any of this? Janet, I cannot tell you how indebted I am
                > to you. We'll deal with that later.
                >
                > Thanks,
                > Paul
                >
                > --- On Tue, 8/5/08, kozlay <kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay%
                40verizon. net>
                > net> wrote:
                >
                > From: kozlay <kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay% 40verizon. net> net>
                > Subject: RE: [S-R] Johannes Kostak
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK- ROOTS%40yahoogro ups.com>
                yahoogroups. com
                > Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 8:34 PM
                >
                > Paul,
                >
                > Maria Miscovics immigrated on February 14, 1904, from Szomolnok, also in
                > Szepes county, to Connellsville PA. Her date of birth was 1885.
                >
                > Szomolnok is now Smolnik SK and is not far from old Lassupatak.
                Lassupatak
                > went under a bewildering variety of names, including Stillbach and
                > Henclofalva. It is now Henclova or Ticha Voda SK, which are
                essentially the
                > same village. You can find Smolnik and Henclova on a modern map such as
                > MapQuest and see how close they are.
                >
                > Roman Catholic church records are available for both places.
                > Lassupatak/Henclofa lva/Ticha Voda (etc.) records are found with the
                village
                > of Nalepkovo. You might find Maria's family in either place, so you
                would
                > likely need to order the films from both.
                >
                > Janet
                >
                > _____
                >
                > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:SLOVAK- ROOTS@
                yahoogroups. com]
                > On
                > Behalf Of Paul Kostyak
                > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 3:01 PM
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
                > Subject: [S-R] Johannes Kostak
                >
                > Hello everyone: My name is Paul Kostyak from Pittsburgh, PA. I am
                > doing a family tree and I have spend countless hours trying to piece
                > the puzzle together. Can you please help me? After I piece the
                > Kostak puzzle together, I have two other important Hungarian puzzles,
                > but let's start with Kostak.
                >
                > My father was Frank. Born 1923 and died 2003. He had several
                > siblings which I have good information on.
                >
                > Their father was John Kostyak, with no further information. His
                > tombstone reads 1878-1944. This is correct.
                >
                > I found a small receipt of unknown origin (1909 from his marriage
                > license?) which lists his name as Johannes Kostak. No "Y". I
                > believe this to be his true, original name. There are other
                > Kostyak's from the same Szepes region, but I don't think they are
                > related. I think I need to focus on Kostak. I am confident that
                > his name was originally Johannes Kostak, because the spouse listed is
                > absolutely correct. (his spouse, my grandmother, will be the next
                > puzzle I tackle another day. Just fyi, her name was Maria Miscovics
                > from Lassupatak, and her mother was Maria Krajniak and her father was
                > Michael Miscovics)
                >
                > This same obscure receipt lists his father as Casparus Kostak from
                > Sandok Szepes. His mother was listed as Juliana Kostak. I
                > estimate their births to be around 1850, give or take a decade. I
                > don't know her maiden name.
                >
                > For the purpose of clarity, I will refer to Johannes Kostak as John
                > Kostyak from this point forward. In everything John did in his life
                > starting around 1910, he was referred to as John Kostyak, not
                > Johannes Kostak. John's residence was listed as Mt. Lebanon, PA on
                > this obscure receipt. Other minor clues: on his application for
                > marriage, his name appears as John Kostak from Dorman, PA. (There
                > is a small borough called Dormont, PA next to Mt. Lebanon)
                >
                > So, I am looking for any information about Johannes Kostak from
                > Sandok, born in 1878. Also, any information about John's father,
                > Casparus, and John's mother, Juliana.
                >
                > Also, fyi, John was a tailor for Boggs and Buhl in Pittsburgh.
                >
                > My cell phone is 412-445-8780 if anyone needs further clarification.
                >
                > Thank you in advance for any insights you can give me.
                >
                > Paul
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Ben Sorensen
                I am about 90 percent sure, just from knowing Slovakia, (nuttin scientific...) that Kostak was pronounced Koshtak with a paletized t. The apostrophe referred
                Message 7 of 25 , Aug 6, 2008
                  I am about 90 percent sure, just from knowing Slovakia, (nuttin scientific...) that Kostak was pronounced Koshtak with a paletized t. The apostrophe referred to here is really a handwritten/now printed makcen softening the consonant, used on tall letters, T gets an apostrophe in the lower case and the "v" in the upper case.  Therefore, the apostrophe may be found also like this in records :Ť.  Consequently, L never gets the "v" and only an apostrophe in printed literature, regardless of case.
                   
                  I would expect to find Kostak spelled : Košťak.

                  This is just an FYI as the research moves from the US to SK....
                  Ben

                  --- On Tue, 8/5/08, johnqadam <johnqadam@...> wrote:

                  From: johnqadam <johnqadam@...>
                  Subject: [S-R] Re: Johannes Kostak
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 11:04 PM






                  DON'T dwell on spelling. It all depends on whether the particular
                  spelling convention is Hungarian, Slovak or Latin on a document. All
                  may have been used to decribe the same person. Slovak convention may
                  have spelled it as Kost'ak. Note the apostrophe after the t.

                  I could give you a few more versions of John but it wouldn't be helful.

                  When searching for genealogical information, knowing the birth village
                  is paramount because records are organized by village not nationally,
                  so it is not possible to search on a national basis. It is also
                  necessary to know the religion. To locate church records for Slovakia,
                  knowing the village/town name, go to the LDS web site:
                  www.familysearch. org/Eng/Library/ FHLC/frameset_ fhlc.asp The church
                  records cover baptisms (krsteni), marriages (sobeseni) and deaths
                  (zomreli).
                • Ben Sorensen
                  Correction: Košťák. my bad, sorry. ... From: Ben Sorensen Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Johannes Kostak To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Message 8 of 25 , Aug 6, 2008
                    Correction: Košťák.

                    my bad, sorry.

                    --- On Wed, 8/6/08, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:

                    From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
                    Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Johannes Kostak
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 3:20 PM






                    I am about 90 percent sure, just from knowing Slovakia, (nuttin scientific.. .) that Kostak was pronounced Koshtak with a paletized t. The apostrophe referred to here is really a handwritten/ now printed makcen softening the consonant, used on tall letters, T gets an apostrophe in the lower case and the "v" in the upper case.  Therefore, the apostrophe may be found also like this in records :Ť.  Consequently, L never gets the "v" and only an apostrophe in printed literature, regardless of case.
                     
                    I would expect to find Kostak spelled : Košťak.

                    This is just an FYI as the research moves from the US to SK....
                    Ben

                    --- On Tue, 8/5/08, johnqadam <johnqadam@rogers. com> wrote:

                    From: johnqadam <johnqadam@rogers. com>
                    Subject: [S-R] Re: Johannes Kostak
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
                    Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 11:04 PM

                    DON'T dwell on spelling. It all depends on whether the particular
                    spelling convention is Hungarian, Slovak or Latin on a document. All
                    may have been used to decribe the same person. Slovak convention may
                    have spelled it as Kost'ak. Note the apostrophe after the t.

                    I could give you a few more versions of John but it wouldn't be helful.

                    When searching for genealogical information, knowing the birth village
                    is paramount because records are organized by village not nationally,
                    so it is not possible to search on a national basis. It is also
                    necessary to know the religion. To locate church records for Slovakia,
                    knowing the village/town name, go to the LDS web site:
                    www.familysearch. org/Eng/Library/ FHLC/frameset_ fhlc.asp The church
                    records cover baptisms (krsteni), marriages (sobeseni) and deaths
                    (zomreli).
                  • bill.tarkulich@iabsi.com
                    Hello Paul, Janet has provided a tremendous amount of help and sorting of facts for you. I am going to ask you to take a DEEP BREATH, push the chair back and
                    Message 9 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                      Hello Paul,

                      Janet has provided a tremendous amount of help and sorting of facts for
                      you. I am going to ask you to take a DEEP BREATH, push the chair back and
                      do a little retrospective analysis now. I don't have time to help you with
                      your specific search, but I do want to caution you as you proceed.

                      First, it seems that your primary research sources are the manifests and
                      the tombstones. I would be very hesitant to be building family trees based
                      on this information. You need secondary sources. Clearly the church
                      records on film will help you do that more confidently.

                      Secondly, of critical importance is to get your hands on any documents your
                      ancestors themselves may have produced. Otherwise you will be dealing with
                      conjecture, implication and dreadful assumptions, all of which must be
                      avoided. The most available and important records will be found in your
                      immigrant's immigration file. The USCIS has been undergoing significant
                      changes in administration of these records since 9/11. It appears we can
                      see light at the end of the tunnel, with a new system for requesting these
                      records set to go live on August 13th. While it will take months to get
                      your paper, it is of critical importance in assuring you are looking at the
                      right records. In these files contains your immigrant's testament to their
                      birth date, place, immigration date, ship, next of kin and so on. all of
                      these facts are super-important clues.
                      A shortcut to get to the USCIS announcement is here:
                      http://tinyurl.com/6gp6gt
                      Examples of what can be found in a immigration file include the Alien
                      Registration form
                      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm#alien.
                      The USCIS took most of this information offline, I spent some time
                      reconstructing it on my site but have not completed the effort.
                      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/imm_names.htm#american_names, so the Alien
                      Registration form image is missing at the moment.

                      So get your request in to the USCIS and then go back to your other
                      research. It will be well worth the wait.

                      Janet is spot-on about details. Note every single one of them.

                      An oft-overlooked strategy is to follow the records of friends, other
                      family from the same village when you hit dead ends. Often you will find
                      the record, but badly mangled in spelling, unfindable through computer
                      serarch engines.

                      Lastly, there is no such thing as "correct right" or "right name". Names
                      morphed over the centuries, kingdoms, rulers, recordkeepers and manglers,
                      both intentional and unintentional. Most of our ancestors were illiterate
                      as late as 100 years ago. My grandmother signed a property deed in 1924
                      with an "X". How would she know the correct spelling?!!!! Note all names
                      and keep careful records. NEVER change names in the family tree to what
                      you believe the "correct" name is. Use the name of record. If you don't,
                      future researchers will be lost and befuddled with your work, and forced to
                      discard it and start over.

                      Best of Luck,

                      Bill Tarkulich

                      On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 04:32:26 -0700 (PDT), Paul Kostyak <kaytsok@...>
                      wrote:
                      > Hi Janet:
                      >
                      > First, let me clear that words cannot express my gratitude thus far.
                      > Also, I realize you cannot continue to focus on my family to the extent
                      > that I would like. So anytime you need to stop, I understand
                      > completely.
                      >
                      > You are able to read these manifests remarkably. At this
                      > point, one question for you is that on the 1904 manifiest for Maria
                      > Miscovics, my grandmother, do you concur that the entry below Maria on
                      the
                      > same manifest is her mother, my great-grandmother, Maria Krajniak?
                      >
                      > As an aside, it is my belief that many, many of the Kostyak's here in the
                      > Pennsylvania are are related. (I have just now come to that
                      > suspicion.) I need to connect the dots from John/Johannes/Janos born
                      > 1878, my grandfather, to the band/sibs of Kostyak's from the 1860's and
                      > 1870's. Based on reasonable analysis of the ages, my best guess is
                      > that Andres (born 1858) is his father, but there are a couple of other
                      > possibilities. Also, there is a second Frank Kostyak from
                      > Braddock, PA (he had 8 children. All these years, we didn't think we
                      > were related to him, but now I suspect they are all kin to this same
                      > band/sibs, so they are likely cousins) who died a few years ago (the
                      > first Frank/Francis was my dad who also died 5 years ago). It is my
                      > belief that Frank from Braddock (born 1888) was also a son of one of this
                      > same band of Kostyaks (Andres/Janos/Pal/Michely/et al)
                      >
                      > Finally, I see a Janos born1843 immigrated in 1889 on the Breman that I
                      > will take a wild guess and say he is the dad of this same band/sibs of
                      > Kostyaks.
                      >
                      > Finally, finally, I see an number of Janos Kostyak's. (born: 1843 (the
                      > one I just identified), 1862, (who I think is his son and one of this
                      same
                      > band/sibs), 1871 (not sure who he is), 1875 (not sure who he is), 1878
                      (my
                      > grandfather as discussed) and 1886 (probably a child of one of the
                      > band/sibs discussed.
                      >
                      > Do you think I may be on the right track with all of this, or am I way
                      > off? Apparently, my family history center is closed the month of
                      > August. I'll be meeting with my newly hired genealogist, Elissa
                      > Powell here in Pittsburgh, next week.
                      >
                      > Thanks, Janet. I am determined to get this all right no matter how long
                      > it takes and how much it costs.
                      >
                      > Paul
                      >
                      > --- On Wed, 8/6/08, kozlay <kozlay@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > From: kozlay <kozlay@...>
                      > Subject: RE: [S-R] Johannes Kostak
                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 7:47 AM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Dear Paul,
                      >
                      > The Maria Miskovics who arrived on the Carpathia in 1910 was the husband
                      > of
                      > Mihaly (Michael) Miskovics. She was traveling with her five children to
                      > her
                      > husband in Uniontown PA. Her mother was Agnes Csaplak in Lassupatak.
                      >
                      > Maria Miscovics was single when she immigrated in 1904.
                      >
                      > Both the 1920 and 1930 censuses from Pittsburgh indicate that John
                      > Kostyak's
                      > wife, Mary, was six years younger than he, making her date of birth about
                      > 1885. This corresponds to the age of Maria Miscovics on the manifest in
                      > 1904.
                      >
                      > As for the date on Maria's tombstone, this sort of error is not uncommon.
                      > The date would have been provided by a family member who may not have
                      been
                      > certain of her date of birth. The only definitive answer is to find her
                      > birth record in Slovakia.
                      >
                      > Clearly these two Marias were sisters-in-law.
                      >
                      > The occupational information on the members of the Kostyak family comes
                      > from
                      > the 1920 and 1930 censuses for Pittsburgh. This is a good illustration of
                      > how important it is to pay attention to all of the information provided.
                      > This is just as true when you begin looking at the church records from
                      > Slovakia. There is often far more information than simply dates of birth,
                      > marriage, death, and parentage, though it may not be obvious from first
                      > glance. When you locate entries for your family, be sure to make a copy
                      of
                      > the entire page as well as close-ups of the individual entry. This will
                      > help
                      > you (and others) to glean as much information as possible from the
                      record.
                      > It will be of interest, for instance, to see if John/Janos/Johannes came
                      > from a family of tailors or other craftsmen and whether they tended to
                      > marry
                      > other craftsmen, as opposed to farming peasants. This would be
                      significant
                      > information relative to their social standing in the village and help you
                      > learn more about the actual lives they led. In the end, this will be of
                      > greater interest than just names and dates.
                      >
                      > Meanwhile, while you are waiting for films to come in, I concur that you
                      > would be well advised to learn all you can from Bill Tarkulich's site
                      > (www.iabsi.com) . There is so much valuable information there, you can
                      > spend
                      > several days going through it all and you may find yourself going back to
                      > it
                      > time and time again.
                      >
                      > Janet
                      >
                      > _____
                      >
                      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups.
                      > com] On
                      > Behalf Of Paul Kostyak
                      > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:27 AM
                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
                      > Cc: kaytsok@yahoo. com
                      > Subject: RE: [S-R] Johannes Kostak
                      >
                      > Hello Janet:
                      >
                      > Clearly, you have a thorough understanding of all of this. While I
                      > thought I had a good idea of Maria Miskovics record, you seem to be able
                      > to
                      > grasp things better.
                      >
                      > I am 100% sure that Janos was my grandfather. I plan to take a trip to
                      > the local family history center for more pieces to the puzzle in the next
                      > day or 2.
                      >
                      > I find it interesting that John/Janos/Johannes lists his father as
                      > Casparus
                      > and mother as Juliana. I guess it's possible that these two people never
                      > came over. I found other Kostyak's on manifests, including another Janos
                      > born in the 1860's. I suspect they are all related to me in some fashion.
                      >
                      > I have a different year of birth for Maria Miskovics. Her tombstone reads
                      > 1883-1971. I remember her. Her brother was Michael. Does any of this
                      > additional information make you feel that you are still correct on your
                      > comments? I have a manifest from the Carpathia from September 17th,
                      > (1900 or 1910) that I thought was the correct family. Yours appears
                      > different.
                      >
                      > Also, how did you find out the great details that Louis was a errend boy
                      > for
                      > a flower shop, etc.?
                      >
                      > Any thoughts on any of this? Janet, I cannot tell you how indebted I am
                      > to you. We'll deal with that later.
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      > Paul
                      >
                      > --- On Tue, 8/5/08, kozlay <kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay% 40verizon.
                      > net>
                      > net> wrote:
                      >
                      > From: kozlay <kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay% 40verizon. net> net>
                      > Subject: RE: [S-R] Johannes Kostak
                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK- ROOTS%40yahoogro ups.com> yahoogroups.
                      > com
                      > Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 8:34 PM
                      >
                      > Paul,
                      >
                      > Maria Miscovics immigrated on February 14, 1904, from Szomolnok, also in
                      > Szepes county, to Connellsville PA. Her date of birth was 1885.
                      >
                      > Szomolnok is now Smolnik SK and is not far from old Lassupatak.
                      Lassupatak
                      > went under a bewildering variety of names, including Stillbach and
                      > Henclofalva. It is now Henclova or Ticha Voda SK, which are essentially
                      > the
                      > same village. You can find Smolnik and Henclova on a modern map such as
                      > MapQuest and see how close they are.
                      >
                      > Roman Catholic church records are available for both places.
                      > Lassupatak/Henclofa lva/Ticha Voda (etc.) records are found with the
                      > village
                      > of Nalepkovo. You might find Maria's family in either place, so you would
                      > likely need to order the films from both.
                      >
                      > Janet
                      >
                      > _____
                      >
                      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:SLOVAK- ROOTS@ yahoogroups.
                      > com]
                      > On
                      > Behalf Of Paul Kostyak
                      > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 3:01 PM
                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
                      > Subject: [S-R] Johannes Kostak
                      >
                      > Hello everyone: My name is Paul Kostyak from Pittsburgh, PA. I am
                      > doing a family tree and I have spend countless hours trying to piece
                      > the puzzle together. Can you please help me? After I piece the
                      > Kostak puzzle together, I have two other important Hungarian puzzles,
                      > but let's start with Kostak.
                      >
                      > My father was Frank. Born 1923 and died 2003. He had several
                      > siblings which I have good information on.
                      >
                      > Their father was John Kostyak, with no further information. His
                      > tombstone reads 1878-1944. This is correct.
                      >
                      > I found a small receipt of unknown origin (1909 from his marriage
                      > license?) which lists his name as Johannes Kostak. No "Y". I
                      > believe this to be his true, original name. There are other
                      > Kostyak's from the same Szepes region, but I don't think they are
                      > related. I think I need to focus on Kostak. I am confident that
                      > his name was originally Johannes Kostak, because the spouse listed is
                      > absolutely correct. (his spouse, my grandmother, will be the next
                      > puzzle I tackle another day. Just fyi, her name was Maria Miscovics
                      > from Lassupatak, and her mother was Maria Krajniak and her father was
                      > Michael Miscovics)
                      >
                      > This same obscure receipt lists his father as Casparus Kostak from
                      > Sandok Szepes. His mother was listed as Juliana Kostak. I
                      > estimate their births to be around 1850, give or take a decade. I
                      > don't know her maiden name.
                      >
                      > For the purpose of clarity, I will refer to Johannes Kostak as John
                      > Kostyak from this point forward. In everything John did in his life
                      > starting around 1910, he was referred to as John Kostyak, not
                      > Johannes Kostak. John's residence was listed as Mt. Lebanon, PA on
                      > this obscure receipt. Other minor clues: on his application for
                      > marriage, his name appears as John Kostak from Dorman, PA. (There
                      > is a small borough called Dormont, PA next to Mt. Lebanon)
                      >
                      > So, I am looking for any information about Johannes Kostak from
                      > Sandok, born in 1878. Also, any information about John's father,
                      > Casparus, and John's mother, Juliana.
                      >
                      > Also, fyi, John was a tailor for Boggs and Buhl in Pittsburgh.
                      >
                      > My cell phone is 412-445-8780 if anyone needs further clarification.
                      >
                      > Thank you in advance for any insights you can give me.
                      >
                      > Paul
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                      > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • kozlay
                      Dear Paul, I do not think the entry below Maria s on the 1904 manifest could be her mother. The two were both 19 years old, and the second one appears to be
                      Message 10 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                        Dear Paul,



                        I do not think the entry below Maria's on the 1904 manifest could be her
                        mother. The two were both 19 years old, and the second one appears to be
                        coming from a different place and having a different destination. Nor do I
                        think the name looks like Krajniak. To me it looks more like Jarajnak. The
                        transcriber read it as Tarajnak.



                        Are you even certain that Maria's mother ever immigrated? There are lots of
                        Maria Krajniaks in the Ellis Island records, though I don't see any that
                        might qualify age-wise.



                        You are probably right that all these Kostyaks are related in some way,
                        though you won't know for certain until you look at the Slovak records.
                        Since it is likely you will find numerous people in there with the same
                        name, it will be important to distinguish carefully between them, working
                        out various family groupings based on parentage, siblings, spouses, dates of
                        birth, etc. Keep in mind that only birth and marriage records can be used
                        to establish the dates of those occurrences. You cannot, for instance,
                        depend on stated age at marriage to establish a firm date of birth.



                        I warn you that this is not an easy task. You can only hope that the records
                        contain all the information you need. For instance, if a marriage record
                        does not include the names of the bride and groom's parents, it may be
                        difficult to place that marriage correctly in your family tree. The earlier
                        you go, the more likely it is that there will be missing information. Also,
                        you need to be prepared to find some people with more than one spouse. Death
                        rates were pretty high, even among those who were relatively young, and
                        remarriages often took place shortly after the death of a spouse. (Someone
                        had to care for the children or support the family.) I found one instance in
                        my own research in which a wife died and later that same year the deceased
                        wife's brother was witness to the remarriage.



                        I applaud you for your determination to sort all of this out. It can be very
                        exciting work.



                        Let me know if there is anything else I can do.



                        Janet









                        _____

                        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of Paul Kostyak
                        Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 6:32 AM
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Cc: kaytsok@...
                        Subject: RE: [S-R] Johannes Kostak



                        Hi Janet:

                        First, let me clear that words cannot express my gratitude thus far. Also,
                        I realize you cannot continue to focus on my family to the extent that I
                        would like. So anytime you need to stop, I understand completely.

                        You are able to read these manifests remarkably. At this point, one
                        question for you is that on the 1904 manifiest for Maria Miscovics, my
                        grandmother, do you concur that the entry below Maria on the same manifest
                        is her mother, my great-grandmother, Maria Krajniak?

                        As an aside, it is my belief that many, many of the Kostyak's here in the
                        Pennsylvania are are related. (I have just now come to that suspicion.)
                        I need to connect the dots from John/Johannes/Janos born 1878, my
                        grandfather, to the band/sibs of Kostyak's from the 1860's and 1870's.
                        Based on reasonable analysis of the ages, my best guess is that Andres (born
                        1858) is his father, but there are a couple of other possibilities.
                        Also, there is a second Frank Kostyak from Braddock, PA (he had 8 children.
                        All these years, we didn't think we were related to him, but now I suspect
                        they are all kin to this same band/sibs, so they are likely cousins) who
                        died a few years ago (the first Frank/Francis was my dad who also died 5
                        years ago). It is my belief that Frank from Braddock (born 1888) was also
                        a son of one of this same band of Kostyaks (Andres/Janos/Pal/Michely/et al)

                        Finally, I see a Janos born1843 immigrated in 1889 on the Breman that I will
                        take a wild guess and say he is the dad of this same band/sibs of Kostyaks.

                        Finally, finally, I see an number of Janos Kostyak's. (born: 1843 (the one
                        I just identified), 1862, (who I think is his son and one of this same
                        band/sibs), 1871 (not sure who he is), 1875 (not sure who he is), 1878 (my
                        grandfather as discussed) and 1886 (probably a child of one of the band/sibs
                        discussed.

                        Do you think I may be on the right track with all of this, or am I way off?
                        Apparently, my family history center is closed the month of August.
                        I'll be meeting with my newly hired genealogist, Elissa Powell here in
                        Pittsburgh, next week.

                        Thanks, Janet. I am determined to get this all right no matter how long it
                        takes and how much it costs.

                        Paul

                        --- On Wed, 8/6/08, kozlay <kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay%40verizon.net>
                        net> wrote:

                        From: kozlay <kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay%40verizon.net> net>
                        Subject: RE: [S-R] Johannes Kostak
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 7:47 AM

                        Dear Paul,

                        The Maria Miskovics who arrived on the Carpathia in 1910 was the husband of
                        Mihaly (Michael) Miskovics. She was traveling with her five children to her
                        husband in Uniontown PA. Her mother was Agnes Csaplak in Lassupatak.

                        Maria Miscovics was single when she immigrated in 1904.

                        Both the 1920 and 1930 censuses from Pittsburgh indicate that John Kostyak's
                        wife, Mary, was six years younger than he, making her date of birth about
                        1885. This corresponds to the age of Maria Miscovics on the manifest in
                        1904.

                        As for the date on Maria's tombstone, this sort of error is not uncommon.
                        The date would have been provided by a family member who may not have been
                        certain of her date of birth. The only definitive answer is to find her
                        birth record in Slovakia.

                        Clearly these two Marias were sisters-in-law.

                        The occupational information on the members of the Kostyak family comes from
                        the 1920 and 1930 censuses for Pittsburgh. This is a good illustration of
                        how important it is to pay attention to all of the information provided.
                        This is just as true when you begin looking at the church records from
                        Slovakia. There is often far more information than simply dates of birth,
                        marriage, death, and parentage, though it may not be obvious from first
                        glance. When you locate entries for your family, be sure to make a copy of
                        the entire page as well as close-ups of the individual entry. This will help
                        you (and others) to glean as much information as possible from the record.
                        It will be of interest, for instance, to see if John/Janos/Johannes came
                        from a family of tailors or other craftsmen and whether they tended to marry
                        other craftsmen, as opposed to farming peasants. This would be significant
                        information relative to their social standing in the village and help you
                        learn more about the actual lives they led. In the end, this will be of
                        greater interest than just names and dates.

                        Meanwhile, while you are waiting for films to come in, I concur that you
                        would be well advised to learn all you can from Bill Tarkulich's site
                        (www.iabsi.com) . There is so much valuable information there, you can spend
                        several days going through it all and you may find yourself going back to it
                        time and time again.

                        Janet

                        _____

                        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com]
                        On
                        Behalf Of Paul Kostyak
                        Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:27 AM
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
                        Cc: kaytsok@yahoo. com
                        Subject: RE: [S-R] Johannes Kostak

                        Hello Janet:

                        Clearly, you have a thorough understanding of all of this. While I
                        thought I had a good idea of Maria Miskovics record, you seem to be able to
                        grasp things better.

                        I am 100% sure that Janos was my grandfather. I plan to take a trip to
                        the local family history center for more pieces to the puzzle in the next
                        day or 2.

                        I find it interesting that John/Janos/Johannes lists his father as Casparus
                        and mother as Juliana. I guess it's possible that these two people never
                        came over. I found other Kostyak's on manifests, including another Janos
                        born in the 1860's. I suspect they are all related to me in some fashion.

                        I have a different year of birth for Maria Miskovics. Her tombstone reads
                        1883-1971. I remember her. Her brother was Michael. Does any of this
                        additional information make you feel that you are still correct on your
                        comments? I have a manifest from the Carpathia from September 17th,
                        (1900 or 1910) that I thought was the correct family. Yours appears
                        different.

                        Also, how did you find out the great details that Louis was a errend boy for
                        a flower shop, etc.?

                        Any thoughts on any of this? Janet, I cannot tell you how indebted I am
                        to you. We'll deal with that later.

                        Thanks,
                        Paul

                        --- On Tue, 8/5/08, kozlay <kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay% 40verizon. net>
                        net> wrote:

                        From: kozlay <kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay% 40verizon. net> net>
                        Subject: RE: [S-R] Johannes Kostak
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK- ROOTS%40yahoogro ups.com> yahoogroups. com
                        Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 8:34 PM

                        Paul,

                        Maria Miscovics immigrated on February 14, 1904, from Szomolnok, also in
                        Szepes county, to Connellsville PA. Her date of birth was 1885.

                        Szomolnok is now Smolnik SK and is not far from old Lassupatak. Lassupatak
                        went under a bewildering variety of names, including Stillbach and
                        Henclofalva. It is now Henclova or Ticha Voda SK, which are essentially the
                        same village. You can find Smolnik and Henclova on a modern map such as
                        MapQuest and see how close they are.

                        Roman Catholic church records are available for both places.
                        Lassupatak/Henclofa lva/Ticha Voda (etc.) records are found with the village
                        of Nalepkovo. You might find Maria's family in either place, so you would
                        likely need to order the films from both.

                        Janet

                        _____

                        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:SLOVAK- ROOTS@ yahoogroups.
                        com]
                        On
                        Behalf Of Paul Kostyak
                        Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 3:01 PM
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
                        Subject: [S-R] Johannes Kostak

                        Hello everyone: My name is Paul Kostyak from Pittsburgh, PA. I am
                        doing a family tree and I have spend countless hours trying to piece
                        the puzzle together. Can you please help me? After I piece the
                        Kostak puzzle together, I have two other important Hungarian puzzles,
                        but let's start with Kostak.

                        My father was Frank. Born 1923 and died 2003. He had several
                        siblings which I have good information on.

                        Their father was John Kostyak, with no further information. His
                        tombstone reads 1878-1944. This is correct.

                        I found a small receipt of unknown origin (1909 from his marriage
                        license?) which lists his name as Johannes Kostak. No "Y". I
                        believe this to be his true, original name. There are other
                        Kostyak's from the same Szepes region, but I don't think they are
                        related. I think I need to focus on Kostak. I am confident that
                        his name was originally Johannes Kostak, because the spouse listed is
                        absolutely correct. (his spouse, my grandmother, will be the next
                        puzzle I tackle another day. Just fyi, her name was Maria Miscovics
                        from Lassupatak, and her mother was Maria Krajniak and her father was
                        Michael Miscovics)

                        This same obscure receipt lists his father as Casparus Kostak from
                        Sandok Szepes. His mother was listed as Juliana Kostak. I
                        estimate their births to be around 1850, give or take a decade. I
                        don't know her maiden name.

                        For the purpose of clarity, I will refer to Johannes Kostak as John
                        Kostyak from this point forward. In everything John did in his life
                        starting around 1910, he was referred to as John Kostyak, not
                        Johannes Kostak. John's residence was listed as Mt. Lebanon, PA on
                        this obscure receipt. Other minor clues: on his application for
                        marriage, his name appears as John Kostak from Dorman, PA. (There
                        is a small borough called Dormont, PA next to Mt. Lebanon)

                        So, I am looking for any information about Johannes Kostak from
                        Sandok, born in 1878. Also, any information about John's father,
                        Casparus, and John's mother, Juliana.

                        Also, fyi, John was a tailor for Boggs and Buhl in Pittsburgh.

                        My cell phone is 412-445-8780 if anyone needs further clarification.

                        Thank you in advance for any insights you can give me.

                        Paul

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Ben Sorensen
                        Hello all,   In my studies, I am finding that American sources are very wanting in finding original locations, and very often I find the place of birth or
                        Message 11 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                          Hello all,
                           
                          In my studies, I am finding that American sources are very wanting in finding original locations, and very often I find the "place of birth" or "from" box reading "Germany" or another country- obviously, in this country there wasn't much importance given to exact locations. My prof (who is LDS) says that "one can use the IGI to find localities of origination, and it can save you alot of tedius research in American sources." I personally am hesitant about the IGI- what sources have given you the best luck? Personally, I am finding Death Records to be good- though one has to know geography for it to be of assistance. I can see this not working though... when those present don't know which city or village the person was from.  Petitions for citizenship are about worthless when trying to determine an exact location, I find, as they have the "renunciation FOREVER all allegiances adn fidelity to any Foreign Power (or something of the like)" and then are good
                          at determining who was King and which province, but no cities, towns, or villages- so finding vitals in the old country is somewhat demanding.
                           
                          Which sources, then, have been the best for you?
                          Ben




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • bill.tarkulich@iabsi.com
                          Your prof is trying to limit you to the sources at his hand. that is, the FHL. He is also taking the easy way out. I ve already made my opinion known about
                          Message 12 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                            Your prof is trying to limit you to the sources at his hand. that is, the
                            FHL.
                            He is also taking the easy way out.
                            I've already made my opinion known about IGI. I would treat it as a clue,
                            but never as authority.

                            I have written extensively about birth sources.
                            http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                            With regard to immigration records, the US did not legislate collection of
                            detailed data until 1904.
                            Look at any manifest before or after 1904 to see the difference. Before
                            1904, America accepted most people with open arms (discrimination after
                            arrival notwithstanding.)

                            with regard to death records - dreadfully inaccurate. It may be working
                            for your specific lineage, but I would not bet one crown upon it. Death
                            information in the USA is never verified or validated on death
                            certificates, except in extenuating circumstances (murder, imprisonment,
                            war, etcetera.)

                            Bill Tarkulich


                            On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 06:06:58 -0700 (PDT), Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Hello all,
                            >
                            > In my studies, I am finding that American sources are very wanting in
                            > finding original locations, and very often I find the "place of birth" or
                            > "from" box reading "Germany" or another country- obviously, in this
                            country
                            > there wasn't much importance given to exact locations. My prof (who is
                            LDS)
                            > says that "one can use the IGI to find localities of origination, and it
                            > can save you alot of tedius research in American sources." I personally
                            am
                            > hesitant about the IGI- what sources have given you the best luck?
                            > Personally, I am finding Death Records to be good- though one has to know
                            > geography for it to be of assistance. I can see this not working
                            though...
                            > when those present don't know which city or village the person was from.
                            > Petitions for citizenship are about worthless when trying to determine an
                            > exact location, I find, as they have the "renunciation FOREVER all
                            > allegiances adn fidelity to any Foreign Power (or something of the like)"
                            > and then are good
                            > at determining who was King and which province, but no cities, towns, or
                            > villages- so finding vitals in the old country is somewhat demanding.
                            >
                            > Which sources, then, have been the best for you?
                            > Ben
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                            >
                            > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                            > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                            > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Ben Sorensen
                            ... From: bill.tarkulich@iabsi.com Subject: RE: [S-R] primary American sources To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday,
                            Message 13 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                              --- On Thu, 8/7/08, bill.tarkulich@... <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:

                              From: bill.tarkulich@... <bill.tarkulich@...>
                              Subject: RE: [S-R] primary American sources
                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 3:53 PM







                              Your prof is trying to limit you to the sources at his hand. that is, the
                              FHL.
                              He is also taking the easy way out.
                              I've already made my opinion known about IGI. I would treat it as a clue,
                              but never as authority.

                              I have written extensively about birth sources.
                              http://www.iabsi. com/gen/public/ ancestral_ village.htm

                              With regard to immigration records, the US did not legislate collection of
                              detailed data until 1904.
                              Look at any manifest before or after 1904 to see the difference. Before
                              1904, America accepted most people with open arms (discrimination after
                              arrival notwithstanding. )

                              with regard to death records - dreadfully inaccurate. It may be working
                              for your specific lineage, but I would not bet one crown upon it. Death
                              information in the USA is never verified or validated on death
                              certificates, except in extenuating circumstances (murder, imprisonment,
                              war, etcetera.)

                              Bill Tarkulich

                              On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 06:06:58 -0700 (PDT), Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@yahoo. com>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Hello all,
                              >
                              > In my studies, I am finding that American sources are very wanting in
                              > finding original locations, and very often I find the "place of birth" or
                              > "from" box reading "Germany" or another country- obviously, in this
                              country
                              > there wasn't much importance given to exact locations. My prof (who is
                              LDS)
                              > says that "one can use the IGI to find localities of origination, and it
                              > can save you alot of tedius research in American sources." I personally
                              am
                              > hesitant about the IGI- what sources have given you the best luck?
                              > Personally, I am finding Death Records to be good- though one has to know
                              > geography for it to be of assistance. I can see this not working
                              though...
                              > when those present don't know which city or village the person was from.
                              > Petitions for citizenship are about worthless when trying to determine an
                              > exact location, I find, as they have the "renunciation FOREVER all
                              > allegiances adn fidelity to any Foreign Power (or something of the like)"
                              > and then are good
                              > at determining who was King and which province, but no cities, towns, or
                              > villages- so finding vitals in the old country is somewhat demanding.
                              >
                              > Which sources, then, have been the best for you?
                              > Ben
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                              >
                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                              > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SLOVAK- ROOTS/
                              >
                              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                              > http://www.yahoogro ups.com/group/ SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                              > SLOVAK-ROOTS- unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. comYahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >

















                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Ben Sorensen
                              I am so sorry that there is a blank post on its way.  My hand malfunctioned and clicked the send button on its own. I am very sorry. Ben ... From:
                              Message 14 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                                I am so sorry that there is a blank post on its way.  My hand malfunctioned and clicked the send button on its own. I am very sorry.
                                Ben

                                --- On Thu, 8/7/08, bill.tarkulich@... <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:

                                From: bill.tarkulich@... <bill.tarkulich@...>
                                Subject: RE: [S-R] primary American sources
                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 3:53 PM







                                Your prof is trying to limit you to the sources at his hand. that is, the
                                FHL.
                                He is also taking the easy way out.
                                I've already made my opinion known about IGI. I would treat it as a clue,
                                but never as authority.

                                I have written extensively about birth sources.
                                http://www.iabsi. com/gen/public/ ancestral_ village.htm

                                With regard to immigration records, the US did not legislate collection of
                                detailed data until 1904.
                                Look at any manifest before or after 1904 to see the difference. Before
                                1904, America accepted most people with open arms (discrimination after
                                arrival notwithstanding. )

                                with regard to death records - dreadfully inaccurate. It may be working
                                for your specific lineage, but I would not bet one crown upon it. Death
                                information in the USA is never verified or validated on death
                                certificates, except in extenuating circumstances (murder, imprisonment,
                                war, etcetera.)

                                Bill Tarkulich

                                On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 06:06:58 -0700 (PDT), Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@yahoo. com>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Hello all,
                                >
                                > In my studies, I am finding that American sources are very wanting in
                                > finding original locations, and very often I find the "place of birth" or
                                > "from" box reading "Germany" or another country- obviously, in this
                                country
                                > there wasn't much importance given to exact locations. My prof (who is
                                LDS)
                                > says that "one can use the IGI to find localities of origination, and it
                                > can save you alot of tedius research in American sources." I personally
                                am
                                > hesitant about the IGI- what sources have given you the best luck?
                                > Personally, I am finding Death Records to be good- though one has to know
                                > geography for it to be of assistance. I can see this not working
                                though...
                                > when those present don't know which city or village the person was from.
                                > Petitions for citizenship are about worthless when trying to determine an
                                > exact location, I find, as they have the "renunciation FOREVER all
                                > allegiances adn fidelity to any Foreign Power (or something of the like)"
                                > and then are good
                                > at determining who was King and which province, but no cities, towns, or
                                > villages- so finding vitals in the old country is somewhat demanding.
                                >
                                > Which sources, then, have been the best for you?
                                > Ben
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                                >
                                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SLOVAK- ROOTS/
                                >
                                > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                > http://www.yahoogro ups.com/group/ SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                                > SLOVAK-ROOTS- unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. comYahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >

















                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • ssultonia
                                Ben, I had the opposite experience with Petitions for Citizenship. That was the first place that gave me a clue where my GF was born. He listed the village
                                Message 15 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                                  Ben,
                                  I had the opposite experience with Petitions for Citizenship. That
                                  was the first place that gave me a clue where my GF was born. He
                                  listed the village where he was born as "Almas" and through some kind
                                  folks on this forum I learned that it was now Jablonov. That was the
                                  breakthrough I needed and from there the LDS films helped fill in most
                                  of the blanks. He also listed his last place of residence before
                                  leaving as "Lucksa", which is right around the corner from Jablonov.
                                  So, I guess it shows how much the records vary and that what works for
                                  one may not for another depending on the time and location when the
                                  documents were originated.
                                  Cheers,
                                  Bill
                                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Hello all,
                                  >
                                  > In my studies, I am finding that American sources are very wanting
                                  in finding original locations, and very often I find the "place of
                                  birth" or "from" box reading "Germany" or another country- obviously,
                                  in this country there wasn't much importance given to exact locations.
                                  My prof (who is LDS) says that "one can use the IGI to find localities
                                  of origination, and it can save you alot of tedius research in
                                  American sources." I personally am hesitant about the IGI- what
                                  sources have given you the best luck? Personally, I am finding Death
                                  Records to be good- though one has to know geography for it to be of
                                  assistance. I can see this not working though... when those present
                                  don't know which city or village the person was from. Petitions for
                                  citizenship are about worthless when trying to determine an exact
                                  location, I find, as they have the "renunciation FOREVER all
                                  allegiances adn fidelity to any Foreign Power (or something of the
                                  like)" and then are good
                                  > at determining who was King and which province, but no cities,
                                  towns, or villages- so finding vitals in the old country is somewhat
                                  demanding.
                                  >
                                  > Which sources, then, have been the best for you?
                                  > Ben
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • kozlay
                                  There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It is the Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the place of
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                                    There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It is the
                                    Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                                    place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and usually does
                                    not contain this information. See
                                    http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.



                                    Janet





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • PAULA BYRD
                                    Janet, do you have an email address that works, this one says not found Paula ... From: kozlay To:
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                                      Janet,

                                      do you have an email address that works, this one says not found

                                      Paula
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: kozlay<mailto:kozlay@...>
                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 3:39 PM
                                      Subject: RE: [S-R] primary American sources


                                      There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It is the
                                      Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                                      place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and usually does
                                      not contain this information. See
                                      http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.<http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.>

                                      Janet

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • kozlay
                                      Paula, I am in the midst of changing my email address from kozlay@comcast.net to kozlay@verizon.net. I don t know why you have had problems since I believe I
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                                        Paula, I am in the midst of changing my email address from
                                        kozlay@... to kozlay@.... I don't know why you have had
                                        problems since I believe I am receiving emails at the new address. You can
                                        also try me at kozlay@....



                                        Janet





                                        _____

                                        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                                        Behalf Of PAULA BYRD
                                        Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 6:51 PM
                                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [S-R] primary American sources



                                        Janet,

                                        do you have an email address that works, this one says not found

                                        Paula
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: kozlay<mailto:kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay%40verizon.net> net>
                                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        yahoogroups.com<mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 3:39 PM
                                        Subject: RE: [S-R] primary American sources

                                        There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It is the
                                        Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                                        place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and usually does
                                        not contain this information. See
                                        http://www.genealog <http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.>
                                        ybranches.com/naturalization.html.<http://www.genealog
                                        <http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.>
                                        ybranches.com/naturalization.html.>

                                        Janet

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • ssultonia
                                        Janet, Oops. You re right. I quoted the wrong document. Sorry for the confusion Ben. The Declaration of Intent is where I got my big break. Regards. Bill ...
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                                          Janet,
                                          Oops. You're right. I quoted the wrong document. Sorry for the
                                          confusion Ben. The Declaration of Intent is where I got my big break.
                                          Regards.
                                          Bill

                                          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It
                                          is the
                                          > Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                                          > place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and
                                          usually does
                                          > not contain this information. See
                                          > http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Janet
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                        • PAULA BYRD
                                          Janet, I was meaning the adrdess for the first papers.When you click on the
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                                            Janet,

                                            I was meaning the adrdess for the first papers.When you click on the www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html<http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html> and the other one you have listed , it brings up a site that says not found.

                                            Paula
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: kozlay<mailto:kozlay@...>
                                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 6:18 PM
                                            Subject: RE: [S-R] primary American sources


                                            Paula, I am in the midst of changing my email address from
                                            kozlay@...<mailto:kozlay@...> to kozlay@...<mailto:kozlay@...>. I don't know why you have had
                                            problems since I believe I am receiving emails at the new address. You can
                                            also try me at kozlay@...<mailto:kozlay@...>.

                                            Janet

                                            _____

                                            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                                            Behalf Of PAULA BYRD
                                            Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 6:51 PM
                                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                                            Subject: Re: [S-R] primary American sources

                                            Janet,

                                            do you have an email address that works, this one says not found

                                            Paula
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: kozlay<mailto:kozlay@verizon. <mailto:kozlay%40verizon.net> net>
                                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                                            yahoogroups.com<mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                                            yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 3:39 PM
                                            Subject: RE: [S-R] primary American sources

                                            There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It is the
                                            Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                                            place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and usually does
                                            not contain this information. See
                                            http://www.genealog<http://www.genealog/> <http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.<http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.>>
                                            ybranches.com/naturalization.html.<http://www.genealog<http://www.genealog/>
                                            <http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.<http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.>>
                                            ybranches.com/naturalization.html.>

                                            Janet

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • MEMcDTT@aol.com
                                            In a message dated 8/7/2008 5:58:33 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, crazyquilter3@msn.com writes:
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                                              In a message dated 8/7/2008 5:58:33 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                                              crazyquilter3@... writes:

                                              <_http://www.genealoghttp://wwwhttp://www.geneahttp://w_
                                              (http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html.) >>


                                              See the period after "html" that is what caused the problem

                                              Janet wrote,

                                              I was meaning the adrdess for the first papers.When you click on the
                                              www.genealogybranchI was meaning thI was
                                              mean<_http://www.genealoghttp://wwwhttp://www.geneahttp://_ (http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html) > and
                                              the other one you have listed , it brings up a site that says not found.



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                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Ben Sorensen
                                              I see what you all mean, and I am thankful for the opinions. I am doing a practice tree, and one of the Declarations of Intention from Wisconsin states that
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Aug 7, 2008
                                                I see what you all mean, and I am thankful for the opinions. I am doing a practice tree, and one of the Declarations of Intention from Wisconsin states that one of my subjects was born in "Prussia." Not exactly a place of origin... :-)
                                                 
                                                Because most of what I am doing is theory with preset "practicals," I am very thankful for your "real-world" experience! I have been already warned, many times in class and out, of the poverty of American records before 1900.
                                                 
                                                EVEN IN SPITE of some of the ideas about FHL and IGI in this course, it has taught me how to get the most out of primary sources, and I would definitely recommend it to anyone.  I am thoroughly enjoying this, and this group...
                                                Ben

                                                --- On Fri, 8/8/08, ssultonia <wasmore@...> wrote:

                                                From: ssultonia <wasmore@...>
                                                Subject: Re: [S-R] primary American sources
                                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                Date: Friday, August 8, 2008, 2:37 AM






                                                Janet,
                                                Oops. You're right. I quoted the wrong document. Sorry for the
                                                confusion Ben. The Declaration of Intent is where I got my big break.
                                                Regards.
                                                Bill

                                                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com, "kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It
                                                is the
                                                > Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                                                > place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and
                                                usually does
                                                > not contain this information. See
                                                > http://www.genealog ybranches. com/naturalizati on.html.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Janet
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >


















                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • kozlay
                                                Here, let s try it one more time: http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html Janet [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Aug 8, 2008
                                                  Here, let's try it one more time:



                                                  http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html



                                                  Janet





                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • bill.tarkulich@iabsi.com
                                                  I never hang my hat on a single data point. Unless there is overwhelming circumstantial evidence that points to the data being correct, I insist on a second
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Aug 8, 2008
                                                    I never hang my hat on a single data point. Unless there is overwhelming
                                                    circumstantial evidence that points to the data being correct, I insist on
                                                    a second independent authoritative source to corroborate it. yea, I'm
                                                    being a broken record.

                                                    so if what you are doing is "theory", THE most important thing you can do
                                                    is to cite and record sources for all data. That way, when you go back,
                                                    people can develop their own opinions about whether the data element is
                                                    credible.

                                                    Regarding "Prussia". Don't be so quick to throw out the baby with the bath
                                                    water. One inaccurate data element is not necessarily grounds to discount
                                                    the whole document. It is never clear to me who the source of the
                                                    information was for all or part of this information. Self? Clerk?
                                                    Offspring? Friend? In some cases, it was simply confusion on the part of
                                                    the immigrant. In most cases these folk were ignorant (not stupid),
                                                    illiterate rural folks from small obscure region.

                                                    Regards,
                                                    Bill



                                                    On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 19:58:45 -0700 (PDT), Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
                                                    wrote:
                                                    > I see what you all mean, and I am thankful for the opinions. I am doing a
                                                    > practice tree, and one of the Declarations of Intention from Wisconsin
                                                    > states that one of my subjects was born in "Prussia." Not exactly a place
                                                    > of origin... :-)
                                                    >
                                                    > Because most of what I am doing is theory with preset "practicals," I am
                                                    > very thankful for your "real-world" experience! I have been already
                                                    warned,
                                                    > many times in class and out, of the poverty of American records before
                                                    > 1900.
                                                    >
                                                    > EVEN IN SPITE of some of the ideas about FHL and IGI in this course, it
                                                    > has taught me how to get the most out of primary sources, and I would
                                                    > definitely recommend it to anyone. I am thoroughly enjoying this, and
                                                    > this group...
                                                    > Ben
                                                    >
                                                    > --- On Fri, 8/8/08, ssultonia <wasmore@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > From: ssultonia <wasmore@...>
                                                    > Subject: Re: [S-R] primary American sources
                                                    > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Date: Friday, August 8, 2008, 2:37 AM
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Janet,
                                                    > Oops. You're right. I quoted the wrong document. Sorry for the
                                                    > confusion Ben. The Declaration of Intent is where I got my big break.
                                                    > Regards.
                                                    > Bill
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com, "kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
                                                    >>
                                                    >> There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It
                                                    > is the
                                                    >> Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                                                    >> place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and
                                                    > usually does
                                                    >> not contain this information. See
                                                    >> http://www.genealog ybranches. com/naturalizati on.html.
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >> Janet
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >>
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > ------------------------------------
                                                    >
                                                    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                                                    >
                                                    > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                                    > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                                                    > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                  • Margo Smith
                                                    Ben -- poverty of American records before 1900 ?  In my experience, there are many more American records available than SK records.  Once a US location
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Aug 8, 2008
                                                      Ben -- "poverty of American records before 1900"?  In my experience, there are many more American records available than SK records.  Once a US location became a county, there are often a lot of records.  Of course, there are too many "burned courthouse" cases.
                                                       
                                                      Margo

                                                      --- On Fri, 8/8/08, bill.tarkulich@... <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:

                                                      From: bill.tarkulich@... <bill.tarkulich@...>
                                                      Subject: Re: [S-R] primary American sources
                                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Date: Friday, August 8, 2008, 8:10 AM







                                                      I never hang my hat on a single data point. Unless there is overwhelming
                                                      circumstantial evidence that points to the data being correct, I insist on
                                                      a second independent authoritative source to corroborate it. yea, I'm
                                                      being a broken record.

                                                      so if what you are doing is "theory", THE most important thing you can do
                                                      is to cite and record sources for all data. That way, when you go back,
                                                      people can develop their own opinions about whether the data element is
                                                      credible.

                                                      Regarding "Prussia". Don't be so quick to throw out the baby with the bath
                                                      water. One inaccurate data element is not necessarily grounds to discount
                                                      the whole document. It is never clear to me who the source of the
                                                      information was for all or part of this information. Self? Clerk?
                                                      Offspring? Friend? In some cases, it was simply confusion on the part of
                                                      the immigrant. In most cases these folk were ignorant (not stupid),
                                                      illiterate rural folks from small obscure region.

                                                      Regards,
                                                      Bill

                                                      On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 19:58:45 -0700 (PDT), Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@yahoo. com>
                                                      wrote:
                                                      > I see what you all mean, and I am thankful for the opinions. I am doing a
                                                      > practice tree, and one of the Declarations of Intention from Wisconsin
                                                      > states that one of my subjects was born in "Prussia." Not exactly a place
                                                      > of origin... :-)
                                                      >
                                                      > Because most of what I am doing is theory with preset "practicals, " I am
                                                      > very thankful for your "real-world" experience! I have been already
                                                      warned,
                                                      > many times in class and out, of the poverty of American records before
                                                      > 1900.
                                                      >
                                                      > EVEN IN SPITE of some of the ideas about FHL and IGI in this course, it
                                                      > has taught me how to get the most out of primary sources, and I would
                                                      > definitely recommend it to anyone. I am thoroughly enjoying this, and
                                                      > this group...
                                                      > Ben
                                                      >
                                                      > --- On Fri, 8/8/08, ssultonia <wasmore@att. net> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > From: ssultonia <wasmore@att. net>
                                                      > Subject: Re: [S-R] primary American sources
                                                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
                                                      > Date: Friday, August 8, 2008, 2:37 AM
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Janet,
                                                      > Oops. You're right. I quoted the wrong document. Sorry for the
                                                      > confusion Ben. The Declaration of Intent is where I got my big break.
                                                      > Regards.
                                                      > Bill
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com, "kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
                                                      >>
                                                      >> There is often confusion over different naturalization records. It
                                                      > is the
                                                      >> Declaration of Intent (First Papers) that is most likely to contain the
                                                      >> place of birth. The Petition for Naturalization comes later and
                                                      > usually does
                                                      >> not contain this information. See
                                                      >> http://www.genealog ybranches. com/naturalizati on.html.
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >> Janet
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >>
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                                                      >
                                                      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SLOVAK- ROOTS/
                                                      >
                                                      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                                      > http://www.yahoogro ups.com/group/ SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                                                      > SLOVAK-ROOTS- unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. comYahoo! Groups Links
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >

















                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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