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Re: [S-R] new member

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  • bill.tarkulich@iabsi.com
    Hello ? Latin is often the official language of record in church books, not necessarily the indigenous name, spoken or daily spelling of the subject in
    Message 1 of 29 , Aug 4, 2008
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      Hello ?

      Latin is often the official language of record in church books, not
      necessarily the indigenous name, spoken or daily spelling of the subject in
      question.

      I am also rather confused as to your self-identified ethnicity. You label
      yourself as both Czech and Slovak. Was there inter-marriage?

      Using Ben's reference is useful, as is the online Slovakia phonebook.

      I would however use these sources only as a starting point. Surnames may
      be entirely unrelated, even within a small radius. I trust you will not
      make an assumption that they are related based on the surname alone.

      If, as you indicate your family has some heraldic components, you may want
      to pursue this path. As you know, heraldic records are fairly complete for
      good reason: succession, taxation and property ownership. There is a major
      Heraldic association in Slovakia. Having said this, many "lesser nobles"
      squandered their fortunes and titles and resumed peasant status in later
      years.

      As you will come to learn, I am generally not very enthusiastic about
      trying to "read" into a surname. Surnames were adopted as late as the 16th
      century. Most surnames morphed over time and any original meaning is often
      times lost. Others will disagree, and certainly there are exceptions.
      However, exceptions are the minority case.

      All of this is not meant to discourage, but rather to ground you in the
      realities and probabilities. This can save you considerable time in
      minimizing wild goose chases. As they say in the military, "trust but
      verify". Or, as I say, note the data, but insist on corroborative evidence
      from a second, independent source before you count it as fact.

      Good Luck to you.

      Regards,

      Bill

      p.s., It would be a consideration to us if you would reveal your given
      name, so we know to whom we are conversing with.


      On Sun, 3 Aug 2008 20:48:21 -0700 (PDT), "L. LEPORIS" <leporis1@...>
      wrote:
      > Ben,
      >
      > Thanks for your welcome. I see you have found some of the same occurances
      > of Leporis that I have. The documents I have include my family's birth
      and
      > death records from the Evangilical Church in Pivnice complete since thier
      > arrival in the 1780's. Additionally I have a copy of the family's coat of
      > arms and letter of issue from Maria Theresa. Also, in my possession is a
      > combined document of the Siebacher's Wappenbuch and Hungarian 'Turul'
      which
      > describe the possible evolution of the family's name to the latin which
      we
      > use today. I say possible because the implications are significant to me
      > and therefore warrant further scrutiny. FYI, Leporis is genitive case "
      of
      > lepus ". Much of what I am uncovering today was lost to the family today
      > even in Slovakia.
      >
      >
      >
      > --- On Mon, 8/4/08, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:
      >
      > From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] new member
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 4:03 AM
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > What do you have as far as documentation? and what latin surname? In
      > church records the names will be moved to Latin if possible, for both
      > churches depending on the time-period. It is not uncommon, for example,
      > to find documents from the German land of Sachsen (Saxony) that label the
      > wife as "uxor." Leporis.... Let's see what we find :-)
      >
      > the last name LEPORIS was found in Slovakia 60 times, overal count of
      > localities, 16, in these localities:
      > PRIEVIDZA III-NECPALY (obec PRIEVIDZA), okr. PRIEVIDZA – 16×;
      > PRIEVIDZA I-STARÉ MESTO (obec PRIEVIDZA), okr. PRIEVIDZA – 12×;
      > VECHEC, okr. VRANOV NAD TOP¼OU – 6×;
      > PRIEVIDZA IV-KOPANICE (obec PRIEVIDZA), okr. PRIEVIDZA – 5×;
      > NITRIANSKE PRAVNO, okr. PRIEVIDZA – 4×;
      > K¼AÈNO, okr. PRIEVIDZA – 3×;
      > TURÈIANSKE TEPLICE, okr. MARTIN (od r. 1996 TURÈIANSKE TEPLICE) – 3×;
      > HANDLOVÁ, okr. PRIEVIDZA – 2×;
      > PRIEVIDZA II-PÍLY (obec PRIEVIDZA), okr. PRIEVIDZA – 2×;
      > DUNAJSKÁ STREDA, okr. DUNAJSKÁ STREDA – 1×;
      > KOMÁRNO, okr. KOMÁRNO – 1×;
      > MODRA, okr. BRATISLAVA-VIDIEK (od r. 1996 PEZINOK) – 1×;
      > PEZINOK, okr. BRATISLAVA-VIDIEK (od r. 1996 PEZINOK) – 1×;
      > KARLOVA VES (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA – 1×;
      > DÚBRAVKA (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA – 1×;
      > VEÈA (obec ŠA¼A), okr. GALANTA (od r. 1996 ŠA¼A) – 1×;
      >
      > The last name LEPÓRIS was found in Slovakia 8×, overall count of
      > localities: 1, In the localities:
      > UHORSKÉ, okr. LUÈENEC (od r. 1996 POLTÁR) – 8×;
      >
      > Latin surnames are not so uncommon, as you see. I myself am related to
      > Slovaks named Rafaelis....
      > Ben
      >
      > --- On Mon, 8/4/08, Ludovit <leporis1@yahoo. com> wrote:
      >
      > From: Ludovit <leporis1@yahoo. com>
      > Subject: [S-R] new member
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
      > Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 4:46 AM
      >
      > It is my pleasure to find this group and you all. I have embarked on a
      > great journey to complete my genealogical tree. I must admit that I am
      > much better at treasure hunting than actual research. I have found many
      > documents pertaining to my Slovak heritage and some implications of
      > further Czech lineage further back in history that I've not been able
      > to validate 100%. My great grandfather born Ludivit Leporis was
      > compelled to assimilate Hungarian culture and thusly use the name Lajos
      > Leporisz. He immigrated to the US in 1913 and later that year sent for
      > my Croatian great grandmother. They came from Pivnice. The family had
      > existed there as protestants for 120 years coming most likely from
      > Presov. Although it is likely uncommon for a Slovak to have a latin
      > surname it seems to have some basis of issue. The family still has
      > presense in Bratislava, Prievdza and the country side. I am currently
      > looking for sound reference to the family in Presov were they have
      > recently been located in records of the Evangilical Church in order to
      > obtain my next link to the late 1700's.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
      > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • Ben Sorensen
      Bill wrote: If, as you indicate your family has some heraldic components, you may want to pursue this path. As you know, heraldic records are fairly complete
      Message 2 of 29 , Aug 4, 2008
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        Bill wrote:

        "If, as you indicate your family has some heraldic components, you may want
        to pursue this path. As you know, heraldic records are fairly complete for
        good reason: succession, taxation and property ownership. There is a major
        Heraldic association in Slovakia. Having said this, many "lesser nobles"
        squandered their fortunes and titles and resumed peasant status in later
        years.

        As you will come to learn, I am generally not very enthusiastic about
        trying to "read" into a surname. Surnames were adopted as late as the 16th
        century. Most surnames morphed over time and any original meaning is often
        times lost. Others will disagree, and certainly there are exceptions.
        However, exceptions are the minority case."

        GREAT points, Bill!
        But, I have to also add that I have, in the course of my studies come across one more point to just fill what I think is one empty space: KNOW what you are reading!!!! At work, one girl came up to me saying that she was sure that she is German Nobility, and showed me what she had.  There was a coat of arms of the ruling family that she got from somewhere- and the occupation listed in the death-record she was showing me was: arbeiter! (labourer!) NOT exactly royalty. I think she had the coat-of-arms of the family her ancestors worked for. :-) Also, another friend found some letters, and said he found his grandmother's origin- Weiss Nicht! :-D I hated to break it to him that he just told me that he has made no progress- but complemented his German, and told him to start with Ich. :-D (Ich weiss nicht means "I don't know.") These sources are invaluable- but worthless if you don't know what you are reading.
         
        If you find a "Kovac," for example, in your family, good luck on using it to find a location. Kovac means smith or metalworker, and every town had them. Seeing names in Latin, as Bill pointed out is common, and my marriage records are a mix of Slovak and Latin- and these are MY personal records!  Also, surnames had many systems, there were patrionic systems, locality names, etc.... and as he said, nothing solidified untill about the 1500's. Even then, some are NOT going to jive.
         
        The heraldry is interesting- but I wish you more luck than my family had: On mom's side, she is from the clan McClellan. It was a good name, but one of our more "favorite" people drank and gambled the fortune away in the mid 1800's. His need for opiates has destroyed my dream of living in the Scottish countryside in a quaint 18,000 sq. foot castle... :-P
         
        Take care!
        Ben
         
         




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Julie Michutka
        I m on the fly today, so please excuse some short comments; I don t mean to come across as abrupt. Lepus is Latin for hare ; leporis is indeed the genitive
        Message 3 of 29 , Aug 4, 2008
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          I'm on the fly today, so please excuse some short comments; I don't
          mean to come across as abrupt.

          "Lepus" is Latin for "hare"; leporis is indeed the genitive singular.
          The name might in fact be Latin, or might be a coincidence of spelling.

          Re: the IGI: never take it as gospel. Some people submit shoddy
          work, eg you find your 3 x great-grandmother's birthdate! Hooray!
          Being a good researcher, you manage to track down the submitter and
          ask for the source of the birthdate, and alas, they reply "oh, I took
          the marriage date and subtracted 16 years". Really.

          Gotta run; welcome to the new member!

          Julie Michutka
          jmm@...
        • L. LEPORIS
          Great points to remember, as I do when I find yet another piece of the puzzle. I m always sceptical when finding something new. I am lucky that the family
          Message 4 of 29 , Aug 4, 2008
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            Great points to remember, as I do when I find yet another piece of the puzzle. I'm always sceptical when finding something new. I am lucky that the family didn't move anywhere for such a long time while in Pivnice. I am taking it one step at a time to go back perhaps to Presov. We'll see.
             
            Ludovit

            --- On Mon, 8/4/08, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:

            From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
            Subject: Re: [S-R] new member
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 3:00 PM






            Bill wrote:

            "If, as you indicate your family has some heraldic components, you may want
            to pursue this path. As you know, heraldic records are fairly complete for
            good reason: succession, taxation and property ownership. There is a major
            Heraldic association in Slovakia. Having said this, many "lesser nobles"
            squandered their fortunes and titles and resumed peasant status in later
            years.

            As you will come to learn, I am generally not very enthusiastic about
            trying to "read" into a surname. Surnames were adopted as late as the 16th
            century. Most surnames morphed over time and any original meaning is often
            times lost. Others will disagree, and certainly there are exceptions.
            However, exceptions are the minority case."

            GREAT points, Bill!
            But, I have to also add that I have, in the course of my studies come across one more point to just fill what I think is one empty space: KNOW what you are reading!!!! At work, one girl came up to me saying that she was sure that she is German Nobility, and showed me what she had.  There was a coat of arms of the ruling family that she got from somewhere- and the occupation listed in the death-record she was showing me was: arbeiter! (labourer!) NOT exactly royalty. I think she had the coat-of-arms of the family her ancestors worked for. :-) Also, another friend found some letters, and said he found his grandmother' s origin- Weiss Nicht! :-D I hated to break it to him that he just told me that he has made no progress- but complemented his German, and told him to start with Ich. :-D (Ich weiss nicht means "I don't know.") These sources are invaluable- but worthless if you don't know what you are reading.
             
            If you find a "Kovac," for example, in your family, good luck on using it to find a location. Kovac means smith or metalworker, and every town had them. Seeing names in Latin, as Bill pointed out is common, and my marriage records are a mix of Slovak and Latin- and these are MY personal records!  Also, surnames had many systems, there were patrionic systems, locality names, etc.... and as he said, nothing solidified untill about the 1500's. Even then, some are NOT going to jive.
             
            The heraldry is interesting- but I wish you more luck than my family had: On mom's side, she is from the clan McClellan. It was a good name, but one of our more "favorite" people drank and gambled the fortune away in the mid 1800's. His need for opiates has destroyed my dream of living in the Scottish countryside in a quaint 18,000 sq. foot castle... :-P
             
            Take care!
            Ben
             
             

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Bernardine Weigand
            Hello, After a long absence I am returning to your group. I look forward to learning and sharing. The family names in my Slovak heritage are: KOPERVAS(Z),
            Message 5 of 29 , Jan 27, 2011
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              Hello,
              After a long absence I am returning to your group. I look forward to
              learning and sharing.
              The family names in my Slovak heritage are: KOPERVAS(Z), MAKUCH,
              CALFA , SZABOCIK, from the villages of CIERNE POLE and PAVLOVCE nad
              UHOM.

              I was very fortunate to have met some close relatives (first cousin
              once removed) on the KOPERVAS side on 2 trips to Slovakia.
              Sadly,this cousin passed away 3 yrs. ago. The information and history
              she shared could only get back to my great-grandmothers CALFA AND
              SZABOCIK. I hope to learn the names of g.g.grandparents.

              Bernardine
            • Michael Mojher
              Bernardine, Good new for you. Pavlovce nad Uhom records are online.
              Message 6 of 29 , Jan 27, 2011
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                Bernardine,
                Good new for you.
                Pavlovce nad Uhom records are online. http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#w=0&p=waypoint&s=waypointsOnly&c=fs%3A1554443 This link will hopefully open on the page for the online records that lists the different denominations. Click on Roman Catholic, then scroll down to Pavlovce nad Uhom, click on it to open the record files.
                The 1995 Slovak Census data base says that in Pavlovce nad Uhom there lived 13 Calfa and 12 Calfova and 14 Sabovcik and 13 Sabovcikova. You difficulty will be sorting your family out from those records. The data base had no listing for Kopervasz. The surname Makuch had 52 listings in 24 locations. Of the top ten locations 7 were in districts of far eastern Slovakia. Neither of your places were listed in the top ten.

                From: Bernardine Weigand
                Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 7:26 PM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [S-R] new member


                Hello,
                After a long absence I am returning to your group. I look forward to
                learning and sharing.
                The family names in my Slovak heritage are: KOPERVAS(Z), MAKUCH,
                CALFA , SZABOCIK, from the villages of CIERNE POLE and PAVLOVCE nad
                UHOM.

                I was very fortunate to have met some close relatives (first cousin
                once removed) on the KOPERVAS side on 2 trips to Slovakia.
                Sadly,this cousin passed away 3 yrs. ago. The information and history
                she shared could only get back to my great-grandmothers CALFA AND
                SZABOCIK. I hope to learn the names of g.g.grandparents.

                Bernardine




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • JOHN
                ... CALFA , SZABOCIK, from the villages of CIERNE POLE and PAVLOVCE nad UHOM.
                Message 7 of 29 , Jan 28, 2011
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                  >>> The family names in my Slovak heritage are: KOPERVAS(Z), MAKUCH,
                  CALFA , SZABOCIK, from the villages of CIERNE POLE and PAVLOVCE nad UHOM. <<<

                  It would be best to start a new thread rather than hijacking an existing one. That way, your replies will be segregated and grouped with the question/issue.

                  What RELIGION was the family. RC records for Pavlovce nad uhom are online.
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