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Death/Reproduction

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  • Diana Boggs
    Why would cities have a higher death rate than reproduction rate? Doesn t that defeat the purpose of having a society ? dlb [Non-text portions of this message
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 2 12:56 PM
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      Why would cities have a higher death rate than reproduction rate? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a "society"? dlb

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ben Sorensen
      That is because of the hieghtened accident rate for city industries, along with the fact that many families in cities did not have the room to have as many
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 2 1:12 PM
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        That is because of the hieghtened "accident rate" for city industries, along with the fact that many families in cities did not have the room to have as many children as their rural counterparts, nor the need. A farm/agricultural life needs more "hands," and children best filled those jobs. But in cities, the people have different dangers to face- machines were dangerous and conditions were also nowhere near as good as they are today, as even the air in mills or factories very often caused respiratory diseases as well as many being maimed or killed by the machines at work. Also, the "slums" that often sprung up in cities and frequented the bars were notoriously beligerent. Another thing was that in cities the companies worked people for all they could get, whereas in rural areas a person's health was his moneymaker- a healthy person lasts all season; at a factory or mill, as long as the sick person doesn't die on the job, the products still roll out.
        Also, the work hours in cities did not really allow for too much social time, so people did not have the chances for procreation like thier rural counterparts. This is NOT to say that trysts did not happen in cities, but it does account for the difference (in small part.)
        Disease also can wipe out a city while not having as large of an effect on rural communities, just because of physical proximity.

        I never heard that cities had a constantly higher death rate than birth rate, but certainly lower birth rates than rural communities.

        What sparked this question? I would love to be reading what you are... :-D
        Ben


        Diana Boggs <ssmudsville@...> wrote:
        Why would cities have a higher death rate than reproduction rate? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a "society"? dlb

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Michael Mojher
        Diane, The link below is to the article description. It is somewhat academic, but from it you see what has influenced birth and death rates over the past two
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 2 1:56 PM
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          Diane,
          The link below is to the article description. It is somewhat academic, but from it you see what has influenced birth and death rates over the past two hundred years.
          www.marathon.uwc.edu/geography/Demotrans/demtran.htm
          THE DEMOGRAPHIC TRANSITION
          Keith Montgomery
          Department of Geography and Geology

          The "Demographic Transition" is a model that describes population change over time. It is based on an interpretation begun in 1929 by the American demographer Warren Thompson, of the observed changes, or transitions, in birth and death rates in industrialized societies over the past two hundred years or so.



          From: Diana Boggs
          Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 12:56 PM
          To: slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [S-R] Death/Reproduction


          Why would cities have a higher death rate than reproduction rate? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a "society"? dlb

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ben Sorensen
          Hey Micheal, can you send that again? I can t seem to get that link to work, and I wanna read it too... :-D Ben Michael Mojher wrote:
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 2 2:25 PM
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            Hey Micheal,
            can you send that again? I can't seem to get that link to work, and I wanna read it too... :-D
            Ben

            Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:
            Diane,
            The link below is to the article description. It is somewhat academic, but from it you see what has influenced birth and death rates over the past two hundred years.
            www.marathon.uwc.edu/geography/Demotrans/demtran.htm
            THE DEMOGRAPHIC TRANSITION
            Keith Montgomery
            Department of Geography and Geology

            The "Demographic Transition" is a model that describes population change over time. It is based on an interpretation begun in 1929 by the American demographer Warren Thompson, of the observed changes, or transitions, in birth and death rates in industrialized societies over the past two hundred years or so.

            From: Diana Boggs
            Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 12:56 PM
            To: slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [S-R] Death/Reproduction

            Why would cities have a higher death rate than reproduction rate? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a "society"? dlb

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ron Matviyak
            Diane, I always looked upon city sanitation - really lack of sanitation by today s standards - as the primary cause of city deaths historically exceeding birth
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 2 3:11 PM
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              Diane,

              I always looked upon city sanitation - really lack of sanitation by
              today's standards - as the primary cause of city deaths historically
              exceeding birth and survival rates. This would predate the
              industrialization Ben refers to, and carry over through his era as
              well. I must disagree with Ben on the reason for the lack of children
              in cities. Reproductive control was (virtually) always forbidden by
              governments and churches, and the knowledge of reproductive methods
              and controls were hard to come by. Consider how many parents really
              have an honest discussion with their children in today's 'enlightened'
              age, and multiply that by ignorance, morality and illegality.

              So I put close quarters and poor sanitation at the root of cities
              having higher mortality rates through the ages.

              Ron
              my original comment was in message
              20217 Re: Adam Theorum & The Railroads, Et Cetera

              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Diana Boggs <ssmudsville@...> wrote:
              >
              > Why would cities have a higher death rate than reproduction rate?
              Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a "society"? dlb
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Ben Sorensen
              Actually, Ron you are also correct, however, the lack of children was that there was no NEED for them at the rate as they were on farms, and not that anyone
              Message 6 of 6 , Jun 2 5:27 PM
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                Actually,
                Ron you are also correct, however, the lack of children was that there was no NEED for them at the rate as they were on farms, and not that anyone ever moderated the birth rate in cities. This did influence the size of the family in the mid to late 1800's, but it was NEVER sanctioned by any nation (until modern China).
                It was a social need, not a mandate, and that is a general overview of the situation. there were exceptions in rural and urban societies.
                We must also look at the ready availibility of "health care" in cities, which, paradoxically, was a DISADVANTAGE in the cities- very often, one was NOT better off seeing a doctor, though this wasn't common knowledge. The fact that the rural dwellers did not go to the doctor also helped this survival/death rate. :-P
                However, Ron, I fully agree with you on the sanitation. streets doubled as sewers in most cities. Yuck....
                Ben :-)


                Ron Matviyak <rmat@...> wrote:
                Diane,

                I always looked upon city sanitation - really lack of sanitation by
                today's standards - as the primary cause of city deaths historically
                exceeding birth and survival rates. This would predate the
                industrialization Ben refers to, and carry over through his era as
                well. I must disagree with Ben on the reason for the lack of children
                in cities. Reproductive control was (virtually) always forbidden by
                governments and churches, and the knowledge of reproductive methods
                and controls were hard to come by. Consider how many parents really
                have an honest discussion with their children in today's 'enlightened'
                age, and multiply that by ignorance, morality and illegality.

                So I put close quarters and poor sanitation at the root of cities
                having higher mortality rates through the ages.

                Ron
                my original comment was in message
                20217 Re: Adam Theorum & The Railroads, Et Cetera

                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Diana Boggs <ssmudsville@...> wrote:
                >
                > Why would cities have a higher death rate than reproduction rate?
                Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a "society"? dlb
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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