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Re: [SPAM]RE: [S-R] Sonntagsgrund, Slovakia (Markusovce)

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  • maxine
    Vladi, you sound like you came from the Larry K. List! Are you having a bad day? That is not a very nice answer. Maxine ... From: Vladimir Linder To:
    Message 1 of 52 , May 29 12:05 PM
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      Vladi, you sound like you came from the Larry K. List! Are you having a bad day? That is not a very nice answer. Maxine


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Vladimir Linder
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 12:20 AM
      Subject: Re: [SPAM]RE: [S-R] Sonntagsgrund, Slovakia (Markusovce)


      Why don't you check the link before posting same
      as the one before, just GARBAGE!!
      GOT IT??

      Vladi

      At 09:21 PM 5/25/2008, you wrote:

      >Here is the other link- seems to be pretty good, for my ok German:
      ><http://www.biologie.de/biowiki/Liste_der_St%C3%A4dte_und_Gemeinden_in_der_Slowakei>http://www.biologie.de/biowiki/Liste_der_St%C3%A4dte_und_Gemeinden_in_der_Slowakei
      >
      >Once again, the same village. Now, let's get
      >some primary resources and work backwards, and
      >see if the online sources are right. Even better
      >would be to have German sources, of which we
      >have discussed very few, and work from
      >Sonntagsgrund to the Slovak name. However, even
      >in Germany the villages are listed by Slovak
      >names first. Makes for hard going... but heck, doable.
      >Ben
      >
      >Bill Tarkulich
      ><<mailto:bill.tarkulich%40iabsi.com>bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
      >I don't find the place name it in any of these references, considered to be
      >primary sources:
      >
      >1. "Magyar Helysegegnev-Azonosito Szotar", Lelkes Gyorgy, Talma Konyvkiado,
      >Baja 1998
      >2. "Nazvy obci Slovenskej Republiky" (NAMES OF VILLAGES, SLOVAK REPUBLIC),
      >Milan Majtan, 1997
      >3. "Magyarország közigazgatási atlasza 1914", Talma Publishers.
      >4. 1877 Dvorzsák Gazetteer
      >5. Vlastivdeny Slovnik Obci na Slovensku, VEDA, 1977
      >
      >The above may be the "old village directories" to which you refer. Since
      >anyone can edit a Wikipedia entry, and no references are cited, I am not
      >persuaded that the entry is authoritative.
      >
      >Bill
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From:
      ><mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      >[mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      >Behalf Of Ben Sorensen
      >Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 10:27 PM
      >To: <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: RE: [S-R] Sonntagsgrund, Slovakia (Markusovce)
      >
      >I found it when I googled it, they have it on the German Wikipedia and then
      >in an online German site- trying to crossreference it again.
      >Maybe I am dead-wrong, but I know that the German sites had it listed as
      >such.
      >Here is that reference:
      >
      ><http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_St%C3%A4dte_und_Gemeinden_in_der_Slow>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_St%C3%A4dte_und_Gemeinden_in_der_Slow
      >akei/H-%C4%BD
      >
      >Here it is clearly stated that Horne Prsany is Sonntagsgrund, in the
      >Banska Bystrica area, and so on. I checked it on Google Earth, which is well
      >referenced, but didn't show anything. I did, however, find that it is
      >well-photographed on Google Earth.
      >
      >Sorry, but I don't have any archives here at the house, but I am planning
      >on bringing some back from home. However, if it can be referenced, say,
      >with the old "village dictionaries" that would probably give me more credit
      >than Wikipedia. I just didn't buy that when I had the chance... sakra.
      >
      >However, I am apt to trust this site- even (or especially) in German.
      >Ben
      >
      >Bill Tarkulich
      ><<mailto:bill.tarkulich%40iabsi.com>bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
      >Hello Ben,
      >
      >What is your source of information? All of the standard Gazetteers,
      >cross-references and the like fail to locate it.
      >
      >Bill
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From:
      ><mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      >[mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      >Behalf Of Ben Sorensen
      >Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 5:11 PM
      >To: <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: RE: [S-R] Sonntagsgrund, Slovakia (Markusovce)
      >
      >Hello,
      >That village "Sonntagsgrund" is in the Banska Bystrica area-in Slovak:
      >Horne Prsany! I just found it. Now... as time permits, I will get you a
      >full history straight from thier site. :-) Sorry, though, I am not familiar
      >with anyone there. I hope this helps.
      >Ben
      >
      >Marilyn Hertenstein
      ><<mailto:mjhertenstein%40charter.net>mjhertenstein@...> wrote:
      >Thanks for your interest in my dilemma Bill. You give some good
      >hints and direction.
      >
      >In the church records I have seen, it is interesting to see on some pages
      >when a Mariassy was baptized (or a few others probably noble) the
      >handwriting changed, is large and beautifully scripted. I guess money talked
      >even back then! Haha
      >
      >Marilyn
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From:
      ><mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      >[mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      >Behalf Of Bill Tarkulich
      >Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 8:16 AM
      >To: <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: RE: [S-R] Sonntagsgrund, Slovakia (Markusovce)
      >
      >"Sonntagsgrund" could perhaps be a locality or a short-lived settlement? I
      >would suggest that some historical research and some high quality maps might
      >be helpful.
      >In this document,
      ><http://www.teplicka.sk/download/markusovce>http://www.teplicka.sk/download/markusovce
      >there is a comment about hunting in the "Sonntagovej doline" (valley).
      >
      >Mind you also that there was a very significant castle here.
      ><http://www.zamky.sk/?mon=810670&q=node/3>http://www.zamky.sk/?mon=810670&q=node/3
      >It is possible that the people in
      >question were in a family of servants. Owners often traveled to other
      >lands and perhaps brought servants with them.
      >
      >I believe that the powerful owners (Mariassy) over time for the most part
      >were Magyar. However, it is quite intriguing that the name mentioned is of a
      >Germanic nature, so question of why the German name would also be a worthy
      >investigation. I would also pursue an investigation of the Mariassy
      >heraldry, it could yield clues.
      >
      >I would suggest trying to bound down the years in which this name is
      >referenced, and search for historical information and historical maps for
      >that specific era.
      >
      >For maps, I would suggest either the VKU tourist series (high topo details)
      >or a Cadastral map.
      >
      >No answers, but food for thought and worth further investigation.
      >
      >Regards,
      >Bill
      >
      >The village that is a mystery is Sonntagsgrund. My gr-grandmother Maria
      >Kristof listed that as her village. She is not the only one in the church
      >records that list it, there are numerous listings for that village. Most
      >everyone in my ancestry came from Teplicska, Markusovce, Kotterbach
      >(Rudnany) and Matejovce. Have you ever heard of this village in the Spis
      >region?
      >
      >I have found a listing for Sonntagsgrund far west where it is now known as
      >Horné Pršany, in Hungarian it was Felsõperesény, and located in Banská
      >Bystrica, Slovakia. This village seems extremely out of range for a church
      >in Markusovce to be recording numerous baptisms and marriages. If there were
      >only one or two listings, one could write it off as travelers, or
      >people traveling home to have their child baptized in Markusovce. But, I
      >feel there must have been another village with same name. Someone told me
      >the German translation might be "Sunday Place".
      >
      >Can you shed any light on my mystery village of Sonntagsgrund?
      >
      >Thanks,
      >Marilyn
      >
      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >------------------------------------
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Marilyn Hertenstein
      I just received a letter from the lady in Slovakia who had heard of Sonntagsgrund. In a hand written letter, she just touched on the Sonntagsgrund matter. She
      Message 52 of 52 , Jun 17, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        I just received a letter from the lady in Slovakia who had heard of Sonntagsgrund. In a hand written letter, she just touched on the Sonntagsgrund matter. She said that an American she met was looking for his grandfather's family. His death certificate listed it as Zzontagrund , which she said was a very old name for a place near Spis Nova Ves. She had asked around (this was back in 1963) about this village name and was told by some old timers that the name was changed to Zavatsken dolina (Zavatska Valley), and "later on when Slovakia after World War II ended a Iron ore mine was built there and controled."

        So now I have a new village name to research!

        Marilyn

        _____

        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Marilyn Hertenstein
        Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 10:26 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [S-R] Sonntagsgrund, Slovakia (Markusovce)



        Will do!

        _____

        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Geiss
        Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 2:35 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Sonntagsgrund, Slovakia (Markusovce)

        Marilyn, I can do even better than that. Contact me at tomfgurka@gvtc. <mailto:tomfgurka%40gvtc.com> com, and I can give you her E-mail address, and you can correspond directly with her. I believe you two would hit it off well.
        Her computer is dying, and her health isn't much better. But she needs something to take her mind off her arthritic pains, etc. and anything she tells you that has to do with old mines, you must be sure and share with Ron and the group. Tom
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Marilyn Hertenstein
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 8:28 AM
        Subject: RE: [S-R] Sonntagsgrund, Slovakia (Markusovce)

        Amazing!! Thank you for your efforts. I've been trying to hunt down information on old Slovak mines, but unsuccessful regarding Sonntagsgrund. I look forward to your next post on the subject once you hear from your friend.

        Thanks,
        Marilyn

        -----Original Message-----
        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Geiss
        Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 12:06 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Sonntagsgrund, Slovakia (Markusovce)

        I just had a communication from a friend who lives in Spisska Nova Ves, (
        since 1939 ). She spelled it ZZONTAGRUND?? Said that for forty years
        it's been known as THE VALLEY OF MARKUSOVCE.
        She has promised to write me a story about someone from there.
        Tom
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Bill Tarkulich" <bill.tarkulich@ <mailto:bill.tarkulich%40iabsi.com> iabsi.com>
        To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 8:15 AM
        Subject: RE: [S-R] Sonntagsgrund, Slovakia (Markusovce)

        "Sonntagsgrund" could perhaps be a locality or a short-lived settlement? I
        would suggest that some historical research and some high quality maps might
        be helpful.
        In this document,
        http://www.teplicka <http://www.teplicka <http://www.teplicka.sk/download/markusovce> .sk/download/markusovce> .sk/download/markusovce
        there is a comment about hunting in the "Sonntagovej doline" (valley).

        Mind you also that there was a very significant castle here.
        http://www.zamky. <http://www.zamky. <http://www.zamky.sk/?mon=810670&q=node/3> sk/?mon=810670&q=node/3> sk/?mon=810670&q=node/3 It is possible that the people in
        question were in a family of servants. Owners often traveled to other
        lands and perhaps brought servants with them.

        I believe that the powerful owners (Mariassy) over time for the most part
        were Magyar. However, it is quite intriguing that the name mentioned is of
        a Germanic nature, so question of why the German name would also be a worthy
        investigation. I would also pursue an investigation of the Mariassy
        heraldry, it could yield clues.

        I would suggest trying to bound down the years in which this name is
        referenced, and search for historical information and historical maps for
        that specific era.

        For maps, I would suggest either the VKU tourist series (high topo details)
        or a Cadastral map.

        No answers, but food for thought and worth further investigation.

        Regards,
        Bill

        The village that is a mystery is Sonntagsgrund. My gr-grandmother Maria
        Kristof listed that as her village. She is not the only one in the church
        records that list it, there are numerous listings for that village. Most
        everyone in my ancestry came from Teplicska, Markusovce, Kotterbach
        (Rudnany) and Matejovce. Have you ever heard of this village in the Spis
        region?

        I have found a listing for Sonntagsgrund far west where it is now known as
        Horné Pršany, in Hungarian it was Felsõperesény, and located in Banská
        Bystrica, Slovakia. This village seems extremely out of range for a church
        in Markusovce to be recording numerous baptisms and marriages. If there
        were only one or two listings, one could write it off as travelers, or
        people traveling home to have their child baptized in Markusovce. But, I
        feel there must have been another village with same name. Someone told me
        the German translation might be "Sunday Place".

        Can you shed any light on my mystery village of Sonntagsgrund?

        Thanks,
        Marilyn

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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