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Validity of LDS Data

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  • Gordon Grening
    I too thought the genealogy data posted on the LDS site was gospel until I found an entry for one of my aunts. Her birthplace was completely incorrectly. I
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 22, 2008
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      I too thought the genealogy data posted on the LDS site was gospel until I found an entry for one of my aunts. Her birthplace was completely incorrectly. I contacted the person who submitted the data and ask him where he got the information on where she was born. The person replied that he ASSUMED that she was born in the same town as her husband! Not only was she not born in the same town; she was born two counties away. This all happened 10 years ago and the data is still out there, incorrect.

      The moral of the story is that the data on the LDS site is just as good (or bad) as what you find on any other database.

      According to my local FHC the new database structure the LDS is beta testing will now allow people to challenge data that has been entered and submit proof/source documents of what the correct data should be. Also you will be able to merge multiple records for the same person into a single record. The LDS is trying to avoid the mess that Ancestry.com now has in their family tree databases.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Bill Tarkulich
      Let me vent for a minute. I notice that certain people new to this line of research like to hang their hat on any data they find, without taking the time to
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 22, 2008
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        Let me vent for a minute.

        I notice that certain people new to this line of research like to hang
        their hat on any data they find, without taking the time to validate
        it. I think that is, to a large extent, why genealogy has a very bad
        reputation in historical and academic circles. This is regard to all
        genealogy researchers, regardless of the country or ethnicity. I am
        NOT picking on anybody in this or any specific research group. My
        comments apply to anyone, anywhere who is contributing this material.

        Human nature being what it is, many folks don't have a lot of time to
        do the dirty research necessary to prove these data. Often, I see
        people "cherry pick" data then conclude their work.

        As others have noted, assumptions are a bad thing. Learning to
        corroborate your work is essential. When you cannot, being able to
        document your sources is crucial, but should be done nonetheless.
        Otherwise you have throw-away work.

        Regarding the LDS (or more specifically, their Family History
        Library/FHL), they go to great lengths to validate and note sources
        for their own original work. I don't want people to be misled into
        thinking all FHL data are flawed. It's the work contributed by
        patrons that is suspect.

        Some day one of our family descendants will pick up our tasks and want
        to continue it. We owe it to them not to pass along "throw away
        work", which requires them to re-do what we already did. That's why
        it's so important to record data as you find it, not as you want it to be.

        Which brings me to the second point. Be true to your sources. When I
        first began documenting my family tree, I started to convert all the
        various renderings of my surname into the spelling used in
        contemporary USA. Big mistake. If a future researcher want to review
        some of my work, they need to be able to find the exact entry,
        otherwise, they won't be certain that they found is what I found.

        OK, I'm off of my soapbox. Back to your regularly scheduled program.

        Bill Tarkulich



        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon Grening" wrote:
        >
        > The moral of the story is that the data on the LDS site is just as
        good (or bad) as what you find on any other database.
        >
      • johnqadam
        ... to your regularly scheduled program.
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 22, 2008
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          >>> Let me vent for a minute . . . OK, I'm off of my soapbox. Back
          to your regularly scheduled program. <<<

          Bill, you may say anything you like. You da boss!
        • Bruce L. Bauer
          Bill I tried to do what you suggest and not standardize the names when I started but found I could not identify people in the same family once my data base
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 22, 2008
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            Bill

            I tried to do what you suggest and not standardize the names when I
            started but found I could not identify people in the same family once
            my data base started growing (a list of people would be all over the
            place instead of grouped). I generally use the most common spelling
            in the records (or the first I come across then change it later if it
            is not the most common - Never use the Americanized version.) (Not so
            much in the Slovak records but common in the early German). The
            Latin to Magyar shift in the records makes keeping family names
            together difficult as well. I now include in the source citation a
            statement like "The surname was spelled XXXXX." to get what I
            consider the best of both worlds.

            Bruce

            At 12:23 PM 4/22/2008, you wrote:
            >Which brings me to the second point. Be true to your sources. When I
            >first began documenting my family tree, I started to convert all the
            >various renderings of my surname into the spelling used in
            >contemporary USA. Big mistake. If a future researcher want to review
            >some of my work, they need to be able to find the exact entry,
            >otherwise, they won't be certain that they found is what I found.
          • bill.tarkulich@iabsi.com
            Bruce, The mainstream would frown upon that practice, sorry to say :( I have English, Slovak, Latin and Church Slavonic. I stayed true to the rule, even
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 22, 2008
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              Bruce,
              The mainstream would frown upon that practice, sorry to say :(
              I have English, Slovak, Latin and Church Slavonic. I stayed true to the
              rule, even though my names changed. I changed the offspring's surnames if
              they embraced a name change from documents.

              I guess I don't see why you had problem identifying people. My family tree
              software is like my driver's manual. I keep it open all the time when I'm
              trying to connect people. It has a pretty good presentation and I follow
              up and down the tree pretty easily. Well, whatever works for you.

              Bill

              On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:39:41 -0500, "Bruce L. Bauer" <bbauer@...>
              wrote:
              > Bill
              >
              > I tried to do what you suggest and not standardize the names when I
              > started but found I could not identify people in the same family once
              > my data base started growing (a list of people would be all over the
              > place instead of grouped). I generally use the most common spelling
              > in the records (or the first I come across then change it later if it
              > is not the most common - Never use the Americanized version.) (Not so
              > much in the Slovak records but common in the early German). The
              > Latin to Magyar shift in the records makes keeping family names
              > together difficult as well. I now include in the source citation a
              > statement like "The surname was spelled XXXXX." to get what I
              > consider the best of both worlds.
              >
              > Bruce
              >
              > At 12:23 PM 4/22/2008, you wrote:
              >>Which brings me to the second point. Be true to your sources. When I
              >>first began documenting my family tree, I started to convert all the
              >>various renderings of my surname into the spelling used in
              >>contemporary USA. Big mistake. If a future researcher want to review
              >>some of my work, they need to be able to find the exact entry,
              >>otherwise, they won't be certain that they found is what I found.
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
              > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
            • Nick Holcz
              Bill,some data LDS has is flawed as you say it was contributed data. My father s birth data was incorrect and I need to scan his birth certificate and email it
              Message 6 of 13 , Apr 22, 2008
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                Bill,some data LDS has is flawed as you say it was contributed data.
                My father's birth data was incorrect and I need to scan his birth
                certificate and email it to LDS in order for them to correct it.
                It would be impossible for them to verify every submission received
                and I guess it is up to us researching our families to let them know
                when we can supply verified correct data.

                Nick
              • Janet Kozlay
                Several years ago I tried complaining about errors in data that was submitted to LDS. I was told that it could not be corrected. My only recourse was to make
                Message 7 of 13 , Apr 23, 2008
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                  Several years ago I tried complaining about errors in data that was
                  submitted to LDS. I was told that it could not be "corrected." My only
                  recourse was to make my own submission with the correct information. I also
                  brought the errors to the attention of the individual who had submitted
                  them. I asked where he had gotten his information and he replied, "somewhere
                  in Connecticut." How's that for valid sources? His attitude was basically
                  that he really didn't care that his submitted data was full of errors.



                  Janet



                  _____

                  From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Nick Holcz
                  Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:52 PM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Validity of LDS Data (a bit of a misnomer)



                  Bill,some data LDS has is flawed as you say it was contributed data.
                  My father's birth data was incorrect and I need to scan his birth
                  certificate and email it to LDS in order for them to correct it.
                  It would be impossible for them to verify every submission received
                  and I guess it is up to us researching our families to let them know
                  when we can supply verified correct data.

                  Nick





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Nick Holcz
                  ... Yes I had the same problem until I could send them the birth certificate, the fact that is was my father and I told them their data was wrong meant nought
                  Message 8 of 13 , Apr 23, 2008
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                    At 04:57 PM 23/04/2008, you wrote:

                    >Several years ago I tried complaining about errors in data that was
                    >submitted to LDS. I was told that it could not be "corrected."

                    Yes I had the same problem until I could send them the birth
                    certificate, the fact that is was my father and I told them their
                    data was wrong meant nought to them.

                    Nick
                  • bill.tarkulich@iabsi.com
                    The problem with that system is that they are not staffed or funded to manage, validate or check it. They don t have the time to make corrections, it is
                    Message 9 of 13 , Apr 23, 2008
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                      The problem with that system is that they are not staffed or funded to
                      manage, validate or check it. They don't have the time to make
                      corrections, it is expected that submitters keep it accurate. By
                      defintion, that's impossible since there is no contact info. It was set up
                      for users to submit whatever you want. That, by definition, makes it a
                      free-for-all, with no quality control, just like Ancestry.

                      There should be a disclaimer on that facility, acknowledging the risks and
                      errors. That would hopefully minimize the number of people who waste a lot
                      of time thinking the data are accurate. Then again, I am very hesitant to
                      bite the hand that feeds me.....

                      Bill


                      On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:07:31 +0800, Nick Holcz <nickh@...> wrote:
                      > At 04:57 PM 23/04/2008, you wrote:
                      >
                      >>Several years ago I tried complaining about errors in data that was
                      >>submitted to LDS. I was told that it could not be "corrected."
                      >
                      > Yes I had the same problem until I could send them the birth
                      > certificate, the fact that is was my father and I told them their
                      > data was wrong meant nought to them.
                      >
                      > Nick
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                      > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • bill.tarkulich@iabsi.com
                      Nick, No insult intended, but I think you would be wasting your time. They don t have staff assigned for that function. I think your certificate would go
                      Message 10 of 13 , Apr 23, 2008
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                        Nick,

                        No insult intended, but I think you would be wasting your time. They don't
                        have staff assigned for that function. I think your certificate would go
                        into a black hole and never come out.

                        Bill


                        On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:52:17 +0800, Nick Holcz <nickh@...> wrote:
                        > Bill,some data LDS has is flawed as you say it was contributed data.
                        > My father's birth data was incorrect and I need to scan his birth
                        > certificate and email it to LDS in order for them to correct it.
                        > It would be impossible for them to verify every submission received
                        > and I guess it is up to us researching our families to let them know
                        > when we can supply verified correct data.
                        >
                        > Nick
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                        > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                        > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Nick Holcz
                        ... No insult received by me, but they did change it. Nick
                        Message 11 of 13 , Apr 23, 2008
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                          At 07:55 PM 23/04/2008, you wrote:


                          >Nick,
                          >
                          >No insult intended, but I think you would be wasting your time. They don't
                          >have staff assigned for that function. I think your certificate would go
                          >into a black hole and never come out.
                          >
                          >Bill
                          No insult received by me, but they did change it.

                          Nick
                        • Bill Tarkulich
                          That is great news Nick. I m really surprised, but glad you had success, albeit a lot of work. Bill ... From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Message 12 of 13 , Apr 24, 2008
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                            That is great news Nick. I'm really surprised, but glad you had success,
                            albeit a lot of work.
                            Bill


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of Nick Holcz
                            Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:38 AM
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Validity of LDS Data (a bit of a misnomer)

                            At 07:55 PM 23/04/2008, you wrote:


                            >Nick,
                            >
                            >No insult intended, but I think you would be wasting your time. They don't
                            >have staff assigned for that function. I think your certificate would go
                            >into a black hole and never come out.
                            >
                            >Bill
                            No insult received by me, but they did change it.

                            Nick

                            ------------------------------------

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                          • Ron Matviyak
                            It is not just LDS that encounters problems with old records, as any of you who tried to interpret old writing can confirm. It seems that the famous German
                            Message 13 of 13 , Apr 24, 2008
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                              It is not just LDS that encounters problems with old records, as any
                              of you who tried to interpret old writing can confirm.

                              It seems that the famous German physicist Max Planck was in reality
                              Marx Planck ...

                              You can see the original photo of the name at

                              http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/mensch/0,1518,549404,00.html

                              Max Planck, einer der berühmtesten Physiker Deutschlands, hieß
                              offiziell gar nicht Max, sondern Marx Planck. Was nach einem späten
                              Aprilscherz klingt, haben Historiker jetzt bestätigt. Gibt es bald
                              Marx-Planck-Institute?

                              So the Germans are light-heartedly asking if there will soon be a
                              Marx-Planck Institute, renaming the Max-Planck Institute.

                              Ron
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