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[S-R] Re: New to the Group/ Erdelyi

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  • Bill Tarkulich
    Sue, I would offer that Close only counts in horse shoes, hand grenades and genealogy dates !!!! What I mean, it that getting within a couple years of a
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 13, 2008
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      Sue,
      I would offer that "Close only counts in horse shoes, hand grenades
      and genealogy dates" !!!!

      What I mean, it that getting within a couple years of a birth is a
      reason to count IN a records, not to count it OUT.
      There are five different, ostensibly credible documents for my
      grandfather, all which list his birth date/year/month differently.
      Nobody has ever been able to corroborate his birthdate.

      Fact is that in many villages in this regions, the birthdate was
      unimportant. It was the person's saint's name day that was very
      important.

      It would be also useful research to look for both surnames in the
      Ellis records. See if you can find other individuals or families with
      the same surname who came from that village. Absence of others from
      that village doesn't mean anything, but if you do find others with the
      same name, traveling on different dates, that would be an important clue.

      I hope you get the idea. There are sometimes reasons to discount
      evidence, and sometimes reasons to include evidence. It isn't the
      smoking gun, but it does give you reason to continue to pursue a trail.

      Lastly, where are the scans you uploaded? I'm a little lost.

      Bill

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
      >
      > By the way, according to his WWI registration, he was born on
      September 17,
      > 1888, in Badalo. You stated his date of birth as August 15, 1887.
      >
      >
    • Sue
      Hi Bill, My scans are in the Photo Section under Erdelyi Album. Sue Don t be afraid, cemetery ghosts are only genealogists with lanterns. Ancestor Hunters
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 13, 2008
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        Hi Bill,
        My scans are in the Photo Section under Erdelyi Album.
        Sue
        Don't be afraid, cemetery ghosts are only genealogists with lanterns.
        Ancestor Hunters Genealogy Group
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ancestorhunters/


        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich"
        <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
        >
        > Sue,
        > I would offer that "Close only counts in horse shoes, hand grenades
        > and genealogy dates" !!!!
        >
        > What I mean, it that getting within a couple years of a birth is a
        > reason to count IN a records, not to count it OUT.
        > There are five different, ostensibly credible documents for my
        > grandfather, all which list his birth date/year/month differently.
        > Nobody has ever been able to corroborate his birthdate.
        >
        > Fact is that in many villages in this regions, the birthdate was
        > unimportant. It was the person's saint's name day that was very
        > important.
        >
        > It would be also useful research to look for both surnames in the
        > Ellis records. See if you can find other individuals or families
        with
        > the same surname who came from that village. Absence of others from
        > that village doesn't mean anything, but if you do find others with
        the
        > same name, traveling on different dates, that would be an important
        clue.
        >
        > I hope you get the idea. There are sometimes reasons to discount
        > evidence, and sometimes reasons to include evidence. It isn't the
        > smoking gun, but it does give you reason to continue to pursue a
        trail.
        >
        > Lastly, where are the scans you uploaded? I'm a little lost.
        >
        > Bill
        >
        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@> wrote:
        > >
        > > By the way, according to his WWI registration, he was born on
        > September 17,
        > > 1888, in Badalo. You stated his date of birth as August 15, 1887.
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Bill Tarkulich
        Hi, I found them - can you please get us bigger images; they are too small to read. Danger! Danger! Danger! Treat all typewritten documents with great
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 13, 2008
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          Hi,
          I found them - can you please get us bigger images; they are too
          small to read.

          Danger! Danger! Danger! Treat all typewritten documents with great
          suspicion. They are undoubtedly transcribed from something else.
          What port did they depart from? Germany? Hungary/Trieste? Other?

          Bill = Don't worry, I won't be afraid....

          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sue" <sueseyes@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Bill,
          > My scans are in the Photo Section under Erdelyi Album.
          > Sue
          > Don't be afraid, cemetery ghosts are only genealogists with lanterns.
          > Ancestor Hunters Genealogy Group
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ancestorhunters/
          >
          >
          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich"
          > <bill.tarkulich@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Sue,
          > > I would offer that "Close only counts in horse shoes, hand grenades
          > > and genealogy dates" !!!!
          > >
          > > What I mean, it that getting within a couple years of a birth is a
          > > reason to count IN a records, not to count it OUT.
          > > There are five different, ostensibly credible documents for my
          > > grandfather, all which list his birth date/year/month differently.
          > > Nobody has ever been able to corroborate his birthdate.
          > >
          > > Fact is that in many villages in this regions, the birthdate was
          > > unimportant. It was the person's saint's name day that was very
          > > important.
          > >
          > > It would be also useful research to look for both surnames in the
          > > Ellis records. See if you can find other individuals or families
          > with
          > > the same surname who came from that village. Absence of others from
          > > that village doesn't mean anything, but if you do find others with
          > the
          > > same name, traveling on different dates, that would be an important
          > clue.
          > >
          > > I hope you get the idea. There are sometimes reasons to discount
          > > evidence, and sometimes reasons to include evidence. It isn't the
          > > smoking gun, but it does give you reason to continue to pursue a
          > trail.
          > >
          > > Lastly, where are the scans you uploaded? I'm a little lost.
          > >
          > > Bill
          > >
          > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > By the way, according to his WWI registration, he was born on
          > > September 17,
          > > > 1888, in Badalo. You stated his date of birth as August 15, 1887.
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Bill Tarkulich
          OK, I know why I m confused now. I think you may be confusing two family groups. I went to the EI site and looked at the Amalia 1907 manifest. Did you look
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 13, 2008
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            OK, I know why I'm confused now. I think you may be confusing two
            family groups.
            I went to the EI site and looked at the Amalia 1907 manifest. Did you
            look at the whole page? There are both TOTH and TAR all from HALABOR
            on the same manifest. They are several lines apart, but the same
            page. Hmmmm. I smell a rat. Whenever I find a manifest of interest,
            I quickly scan the entire manifest for other clues such as people from
            the same village or same surname, just broken apart. The
            transcription process to create the database is sadly lacking, and
            introduced many errors in it. I recommend your next step is to quicly
            review every manifest page.

            My GM's cousins had their records transposed - they were right next to
            each other, one was married, the other not.

            I have a feeling some confusion occurred at manifest creation time.
            I would also give you some tips on searching for variants in EIDB:
            http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/EIDB_Errors.htm

            I will leave the next steps to you.


            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sue" <sueseyes@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Bill,
            > My scans are in the Photo Section under Erdelyi Album.
            > Sue
            > Don't be afraid, cemetery ghosts are only genealogists with lanterns.
            > Ancestor Hunters Genealogy Group
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ancestorhunters/
            >
            >
            > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich"
            > <bill.tarkulich@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Sue,
            > > I would offer that "Close only counts in horse shoes, hand grenades
            > > and genealogy dates" !!!!
            > >
            > > What I mean, it that getting within a couple years of a birth is a
            > > reason to count IN a records, not to count it OUT.
            > > There are five different, ostensibly credible documents for my
            > > grandfather, all which list his birth date/year/month differently.
            > > Nobody has ever been able to corroborate his birthdate.
            > >
            > > Fact is that in many villages in this regions, the birthdate was
            > > unimportant. It was the person's saint's name day that was very
            > > important.
            > >
            > > It would be also useful research to look for both surnames in the
            > > Ellis records. See if you can find other individuals or families
            > with
            > > the same surname who came from that village. Absence of others from
            > > that village doesn't mean anything, but if you do find others with
            > the
            > > same name, traveling on different dates, that would be an important
            > clue.
            > >
            > > I hope you get the idea. There are sometimes reasons to discount
            > > evidence, and sometimes reasons to include evidence. It isn't the
            > > smoking gun, but it does give you reason to continue to pursue a
            > trail.
            > >
            > > Lastly, where are the scans you uploaded? I'm a little lost.
            > >
            > > Bill
            > >
            > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > By the way, according to his WWI registration, he was born on
            > > September 17,
            > > > 1888, in Badalo. You stated his date of birth as August 15, 1887.
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Bill Tarkulich
            All these TARs are from Halabor, different years: All these TOTH are from Halabor, different years. Residence Age Born* Arrived Passenger Record Tar, Amalia
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 13, 2008
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              All these TARs are from Halabor, different years:
              All these TOTH are from Halabor, different years.

              Residence Age Born* Arrived Passenger
              Record
              Tar, Amalia Halabor 18 1889 1907
              Tar, Paula Halabor, Hungary 3 1907 1910
              Tar, Roza Halabor, Hungary 30 1880 1910
              Tar, Zsigmond Halabor 28 1878 1906
              Toth, Ilonka Halabor, Cz. Slov. 17 1904 1921
              Toth, Josef Halabor 38 1865 1903
              Toth, Jozsef Halabor 43 1864 1907
              Toth, Jozsef Halabor, Hungary 48 1865 1913
              Toth, Samuel Halabor, Hungary 49 1863 1912
              Toth, Schmul Halabor 45 1862 1907


              And I haven't even tried name variations/misspellings yet!





              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich"
              <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
              >
              > OK, I know why I'm confused now. I think you may be confusing two
              > family groups.
              > I went to the EI site and looked at the Amalia 1907 manifest. Did you
              > look at the whole page? There are both TOTH and TAR all from HALABOR
              > on the same manifest. They are several lines apart, but the same
              > page. Hmmmm. I smell a rat. Whenever I find a manifest of interest,
              > I quickly scan the entire manifest for other clues such as people from
              > the same village or same surname, just broken apart. The
              > transcription process to create the database is sadly lacking, and
              > introduced many errors in it. I recommend your next step is to quicly
              > review every manifest page.
              >
              > My GM's cousins had their records transposed - they were right next to
              > each other, one was married, the other not.
              >
              > I have a feeling some confusion occurred at manifest creation time.
              > I would also give you some tips on searching for variants in EIDB:
              > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/EIDB_Errors.htm
              >
              > I will leave the next steps to you.
              >
              >
              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sue" <sueseyes@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Bill,
              > > My scans are in the Photo Section under Erdelyi Album.
              > > Sue
              > > Don't be afraid, cemetery ghosts are only genealogists with lanterns.
              > > Ancestor Hunters Genealogy Group
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ancestorhunters/
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich"
              > > <bill.tarkulich@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Sue,
              > > > I would offer that "Close only counts in horse shoes, hand grenades
              > > > and genealogy dates" !!!!
              > > >
              > > > What I mean, it that getting within a couple years of a birth is a
              > > > reason to count IN a records, not to count it OUT.
              > > > There are five different, ostensibly credible documents for my
              > > > grandfather, all which list his birth date/year/month differently.
              > > > Nobody has ever been able to corroborate his birthdate.
              > > >
              > > > Fact is that in many villages in this regions, the birthdate was
              > > > unimportant. It was the person's saint's name day that was very
              > > > important.
              > > >
              > > > It would be also useful research to look for both surnames in the
              > > > Ellis records. See if you can find other individuals or families
              > > with
              > > > the same surname who came from that village. Absence of others from
              > > > that village doesn't mean anything, but if you do find others with
              > > the
              > > > same name, traveling on different dates, that would be an important
              > > clue.
              > > >
              > > > I hope you get the idea. There are sometimes reasons to discount
              > > > evidence, and sometimes reasons to include evidence. It isn't the
              > > > smoking gun, but it does give you reason to continue to pursue a
              > > trail.
              > > >
              > > > Lastly, where are the scans you uploaded? I'm a little lost.
              > > >
              > > > Bill
              > > >
              > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > By the way, according to his WWI registration, he was born on
              > > > September 17,
              > > > > 1888, in Badalo. You stated his date of birth as August 15, 1887.
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Adrienne Sowards
              I ve been watching the Erdelyi posts with interest. I have ancestors by the name of Cverdel/Czverdely/Sverdel (and variations thereof) from Bardejov, Slovakia.
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 17, 2008
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                I've been watching the Erdelyi posts with interest.

                I have ancestors by the name of Cverdel/Czverdely/Sverdel (and variations thereof) from Bardejov, Slovakia. What are the chances that Cverdel is related to the name Erdelyi, or "from Transylvania?"

                I know one Cverdel relative moved to Budapest (circa 1900) and changed his last name to a variation of Erdelyi. Unfortunately I have to go find the documentation on that - I don't have it with me right now!

                But I would love to know where Cverdel/Sverdel comes from. It's very unusual. So far I've found just one family still going by the name Cverdely!

                Thanks,
                Adrienne









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              • Adrienne Sowards
                Still wondering about the Erdelyi/Czverdely connection. This document (http://www.nhmus.hu/~pappmin/tmh7_390-420_adattar5.pdf) contains a photo of a distant
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 18, 2008
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                  Still wondering about the Erdelyi/Czverdely connection.

                  This document (http://www.nhmus.hu/~pappmin/tmh7_390-420_adattar5.pdf) contains a photo of a distant cousin of mine who changed his name from Czverdely to Erdelyi when he moved from Slovakia to Hungary.

                  I'm wondering if he chose the last name "Erdelyi" just because he thought it was a good name, or if it has a connection with Czverdely.







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                • william gura
                  anyone have any good information about tours in slovakia??? i want to take the back roads and visit the small villages and try to find old family ties in the
                  Message 8 of 20 , Apr 18, 2008
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                    anyone have any good information about tours in slovakia??? i want to take the back roads and visit the small villages and try to find old family ties in the spis region... in the villages of either vlachy or the magura range area//// thanks



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                  • Margo Smith
                    Contact Helene Cincebeaux at helenezx@aol.com william gura wrote: anyone have any good information about tours in slovakia??? i want
                    Message 9 of 20 , Apr 20, 2008
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                      Contact Helene Cincebeaux at helenezx@...

                      william gura <wgura@...> wrote: anyone have any good information about tours in slovakia??? i want to take the back roads and visit the small villages and try to find old family ties in the spis region... in the villages of either vlachy or the magura range area//// thanks


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