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Re: [S-R] David (the name): odd question

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  • gklodzen@aol.com
    In a message dated 4/6/2008 3:18:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, nhasior@a ol.com writes: You are most welcome and it is interesting to see customs of our
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 7 5:47 AM
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      In a message dated 4/6/2008 3:18:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, nhasior@a
      ol.com writes:

      You are most welcome and it is interesting to see customs of our
      grandparents and great grandparents. I lost all four of my grandparents long
      before I
      became old enough to know them. It is a great loss historically and
      genealogy
      has given me insight into myself and my parents and our collective past. It
      is sharing this with other folks who share this passion that makes it so
      wonderful.
      Noreen



      It is the same situation with me, Noreen, and I agree with you completely.
      I've learned more of my grandparents through research (starting with Bill
      Tarkulich's excellent website) and groups like this in the last four years
      then in all past years combined.

      Eugene Klodzen



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    • Margo Smith
      Julie, your comment that the illegitimate grooms tend to come from a particular village is very intriguing. What do you know about this village? Does it
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 11 11:07 AM
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        Julie, your comment that the illegitimate grooms tend to come from a particular village is very intriguing. What do you know about this village? Does it specialize in anything particular which would attract young men who were illegitimate?

        I have studied in some detail 95 families from the Turiec Valley from "the beginning of time" (i.e., the beginning of the extant records) to 1900. The given names come from a small pool. 84% of the males are named Jan, Juraj, Andrej or Matej (none illegitimate). The others are Jozef, Mikulas, Michal, Tomas, Pavol and Peter. 89% of the females are named Anna, Maria/Marina, Katarina or Zuzana (none illegitimate). The other females were named Dorota, Barbora, Rosalia, Zofie, and Johanna. By far the most popular names were Jan and Anna. Almost all of these people were serfs (1 family of lower gentry and 1 of freed men). I noticed that the nobility were named from a much larger pool of given names. 20th century names are also from a larger pool.

        I wonder if naming patterns vary by region, or by religion. The definitely vary by time period: Dorota and Barbora are older names.

        Margo

        J Michutka <jmm@...> wrote:
        I spent a little time playing with the names in my marriage database;
        so far it only covers 1869-1899, 942 marriages. I found 8 instances
        of a groom named David, and to my surprise, all 8 were illegitimate.
        I then checked the first names of all grooms noted as illegitimate
        (57 names), and they're all over the place, common names like
        Josephus and less common ones like Thobias, but it does feel like
        there's a higher incidence of less-common names than in the
        population of legitimately-born grooms in this village. For example,
        Fabianus appeared 4 times, 3 of which were illegitimate; Marcus 3
        times, all illegitimate.

        I also checked brides' names (brides labeled illegitimate; 44 total);
        again, all over the place, a few less-common ones such as Ludmilla
        and Juditha. Off-hand, I found no obvious correlations here as I did
        with David, where a particular name really seemed to signal
        illegitimacy.

        I've noticed that a number of the illegitimate grooms come from a
        particular village not too far away...not sure how much to read into
        that...

        Julie Michutka
        jmm@...

        On Apr 5, 2008, at 7:31 PM, nhasior@... wrote:

        >
        > Hi Eugene,
        > It is interesting to wonder if given names follow any particular
        > rules. We
        > had the thread that discussed the naming of girls. I think it was
        > first girl
        > was Mary, second one was Anna, third was Sophie, next was Helen etc.
        > My grandfather was Istvan. He was legitimate, so I do not know if
        > that
        > helps.
        > Noreen




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      • J Michutka
        ... Yes: pretty girls ;) I can only guess; and I can t access the records of The Village of Illegitimate Young Men to get any ideas from there, because it is
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 11 4:55 PM
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          On Apr 11, 2008, at 2:07 PM, Margo Smith wrote:

          > Julie, your comment that the illegitimate grooms tend to come from
          > a particular village is very intriguing. What do you know about
          > this village? Does it specialize in anything particular which
          > would attract young men who were illegitimate?

          Yes: pretty girls ;)

          I can only guess; and I can't access the records of The Village of
          Illegitimate Young Men to get any ideas from there, because it is
          across the border in Moravia, and therefore not (yet) microfilmed.
          My guess is that some of the IYM had to look outside their own
          village, and my ancestral village was the next village east; so the
          serious answer to your question is probably "proximity". And perhaps
          the IYM of my ancestral village went to that village to the west to
          look for *their* brides....but w/o being able to look at those
          records, I don't know! One can imagine an exchange between the two
          villages of the socially disenfranchised....heavens, who knows. It
          would be so interesting to be able to compare the two villages'
          records, and try to tease out the relationship between the populations.

          As for names....I've also noticed that the popular names shift a bit,
          but who knows what piece of paper I wrote those notes on. I wish I
          had time to skim the village baptismal records, and see if the David
          pattern is consistent through the entire register (roughly 1800-1910).

          Julie Michutka
          jmm@...
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