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Re: [S-R] Klacsano - photo of church for Bill Tarkulich

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  • gklodzen@aol.com
    Vladimir, I d be quite surprised if my family descended from nobility, but hey, always a possibility. I will dig a little deeper and see where it leads. For
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 5, 2008
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      Vladimir,

      I'd be quite surprised if my family descended from nobility, but hey, always
      a possibility. I will dig a little deeper and see where it leads. For the
      present, I'm just happy to have found the grandparents and great-grandparents in
      Vinne.

      Thank you for your information,
      Eugene


      In a message dated 2/4/2008 2:10:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      konekta@... writes:

      Dear Eugene,
      If somebody has a name associated with a place name, then he most probably
      is a descendant of the first mayor of that place.
      However, surnames of this sort were created before 16th century, so just no
      way to find out anything more about that, except the family was noble, where
      some additional records might be available.
      Vladimir

      _____

      From: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
      [mailto:_SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
      ] On
      Behalf Of _gklodzen@..._ (mailto:gklodzen@...)
      Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 2:24 PM
      To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano - photo of church for Bill Tarkulich

      Hi Bill,

      This discussion of the village of Klacsano is quite intriguing. While my
      19th century ancestors named KLADZAN have been traced to the village of
      Vinne as
      far back as 1813 I am now wondering if perhaps a more distant ancestor might

      have been from Klacsano (thus acquiring the surname KLADZAN), not too far
      southeast of Vinne. Of course the more likely location of that ancestor
      might
      still be the village of Kladzan, a few miles northwest of Vinne.

      All very fascinating. The research continues.

      Eugene Klodzen
      (whose Vinne ancestors eventually immigrated to Bitumen, PA in the late
      1800s)

      In a message dated 1/29/2008 12:49:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      bill.tarkulich@ <mailto:bill.mailto:bilmailto:bill> iabsi.com writes:

      --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@--- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@<WBR>SLOVAK-ROO--- In
      <mailto:SLOVAK-mailto:SLOVAK-<Wmailto:> yahoogroups.
      , "June McKee" <junemckee@.ju> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Bill,
      >
      > As you can see this conversation was from a few months ago. I sent
      an email to your other address but I am not sure If you recieved it.
      If the offer is still there regarding the photo of the Parish in
      Klacsano I would love to see a copy of it whenever you get a chance. I
      had forgot about this and just came across the posting this evening
      while going thru old messages. I am still waiting for Homeland
      Security to resend me the copy of my gm's immigration papers which I
      had recieved back in November but they were so faint I couldnt make
      too much out. I sure hope that this time they will be able to be read
      so I can make out what the name of her homeland villiage was for sure.
      I asked if they could send me a cd which they normally do not do if
      there are less than 11 pages but I must have really got a nice helpful
      person because she told me that she would. I am thinking that it may
      be easier to read a cd.
      > I also want to thank you for all of the help that you have given and
      sending me in the right direction.
      >
      > June McKee
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Bill Tarkulich
      > To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@ To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@<WBR>SLOVAK-ROOTS To: _
      <mailto:SLOVAK-mailto:SLOVAK-<Wmailto:> yahoogroups.
      > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:28 AM
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano - photo of church
      >
      >
      > June,
      >
      > I have a book with a 1997 photo and brief history of the church in
      this
      > village. The current building was constructed in 1820, the parish
      formed
      > in 1733. If you are interested, drop me a (private) note and I
      would be
      > happy to scan and email it to you. It's written in Ukrainian, I will
      > leave it to you to be translated.
      > Bill
      >
      > On Mon, November 26, 2007 3:07 am, Bill Tarkulich wrote:
      > > I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
      > >> old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby.
      > > - Yes, it is nearby to Munkacs as Janet indicates.
      > >
      > > Depending on the translation, it could be rendered as KLJACSANOVO,
      > > KLACSNOWA(SLOVAK) KLACSNOWA(SLOVAK)<WBR>, KLJACSANOVE (UKRAIN
      > > I found it on Mapquest, rendered as KLIACHANOVE:
      > > __http://tinyurl._ (http://tinyurl./) <_http://tinyurl.http://tiny_
      (http://tinyurl.http//tin_) > _http://tin__ (http://tin_/)
      (_http://tinyurl._ (http://tinyurl./) <_http://tinyurl.http://tin_
      (http://tinyurl.com/2ho6wk) > com/2ho6wk)
      > >
      > > Another contemporary map, more detailed, is here:
      > > __http://tinyurl._ (http://tinyurl./) <_http://tinyurl.http://tiny_
      (http://tinyurl.http//tin_) > _http://tin__ (http://tin_/)
      (_http://tinyurl._ (http://tinyurl./) <_http://tinyurl.http://tin_
      (http://tinyurl.com/34cgw2) > com/34cgw2)
      > > It's clearly visible on highway M17 just Northwest of Munkacs.
      > >
      > > Based on June's rendering, Elocona very likely could be Klacsano
      based on
      > > cursive errors alone. I would like to see a copy, I know you've
      tried.
      > > Latin vowels are often misinterpreted. KLACZANO would have been the
      > > Magyar spelling at some point.
      > >
      > > What June has said all makes sense - It would have been in
      Czechoslovakia,
      > > 1st republic from 1918 until 1939, in Hungary prior to that period.
      > >
      > > Bill
      > > On Sun, November 25, 2007 11:26 pm, Janet Kozlay wrote:
      > >> Klacsano was a village just northwest of Munkacs. See map at
      > >> __http://lazarus._ (http://lazarus./)
      <_http://lazarus.http://lazarus.http://lazahttp:/_ (http://lazarus.http//lazarhttp://lazhttp://laz_) >
      _http://lazarhttp:http://lazhttp:/_ (http://lazarhttp//lazhttp://laz_)
      (_http://lazarus._ (http://lazarus./)
      <_http://lazarus.http://lazarhttp://lazhttp://laz_ (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/bereg.jpg.) >
      elte.hu/hun/elte.hu/huelte.hu/huelte.h
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> I haven't been able to identify it on a modern map of Ukraine.
      It might
      > >> be
      > >> Suche, or it might have simply disappeared.
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> Janet
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> _____
      > >>
      > >> From: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@ From: _SLOVA
      (mailto:SLOVAK-(mailto:SLO<mailto:SLOVAK-mailto:SLOVAK-<Wmailto:>
      yahoogroups.yahoogrou
      [mailto:_SLOVAK-[mailto:_SLOV[mailto:_SLOVAK-<WBR>ROOTS@SL[mailt
      <mailto:SLOVAK-mailto:SLOVAK-<Wmailto:> yahoogroups. y
      > >> On
      > >> Behalf Of junemckee
      > >> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 10:33 PM
      > >> To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@ To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@<WBR>SLOVAK-ROOTS To: _
      <mailto:SLOVAK-mailto:SLOVAK-<Wmailto:> yahoogroups.
      > >> Subject: [S-R] finally got the immigration papers
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> Well after reading Paula's posting lastweek regarding her papers
      > >> coming back and not being able to read them it has just happened to
      > >> me aswell. after 18mos of waiting I recieved my grandmother Meri
      > >> Boldizar "Kolina" immigration papers. I got the declaration of
      > >> intention, petition for naturalaization and the certificate
      .Welll I
      > >> cant hardly read anything!!!! cant hardly read anything!!!!<WBR>! I ha
      > >> all these months and then what a disapointment. I gave them a call
      > >> and the person which I spoke with is going to see if they can get a
      > >> better copy for me. Of course of all the things that I really
      need is
      > >> to be able to read the village in which she came from and it is
      very
      > >> difficult. The lady helping me on the phone tried to read it to me
      > >> the best that she could and thinks that the village looks like it
      > >> could be spelled "Elocona" the E could be an "F". it says
      > >> Czechslovakia hungary. I have always been told that she was from
      > >> Munkacs. The EI manifest which I believe to be her says she
      came from
      > >> Klaczano. I was told several years ago that Klaczano was
      possibly an
      > >> old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby. Does anyone know who
      > >> would be familiar with this area? I checked the fuzzy Gazzetter and
      > >> several other sites but couldnt get anything. I also have played
      > >> around with scanning them and nothing works. so much of the
      print is
      > >> gone.
      > >>
      > >> thank you,
      > >> June








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    • johnqadam
      ... Rajec, Slovakia, formerly Rajecz, Trencsén, Hungary 49°05 18°38
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 5, 2008
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        >>> Also, where is the town of Rajec? <<<

        Rajec, Slovakia, formerly Rajecz, Trencsén, Hungary 49°05' 18°38'
      • konekta@nm.psg.sk
        Dear Eugene, Urbar is an old Tax book. Not available to you. If you can not find Rajec, then may God help you. Vladimir _____ From:
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 5, 2008
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          Dear Eugene,
          Urbar is an old Tax book. Not available to you. If you can not find Rajec,
          then may God help you.
          Vladimir

          _____

          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of gklodzen@...
          Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 2:12 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano - photo of church for Bill Tarkulich




          A much more likely possibility, Vladimir. Some questions, please. What is
          the meaning of Urbars, and is this record available? Also, where is the town

          of Rajec?

          Many thanks,
          Eugene

          In a message dated 2/4/2008 2:10:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
          konekta@.... <mailto:konekta%40nm.psg.sk> sk writes:

          Dear Eugene,
          In available Urbars I found one occurence of
          Klaczan surname of a serf in 1688, town of Rajec, Estate of Zilina Jesuites.
          Vladimir

          **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
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        • Margo Smith
          Eugene, Vladimir will probably expand on this reply because he is the expert. In the meantime, the Urbars are the old feudal tax records which list the serf
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 5, 2008
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            Eugene, Vladimir will probably expand on this reply because he is the expert. In the meantime, the Urbars are the old feudal tax records which list the serf taxpayers. The records from 1770ish are available on microfilm from the Family History Centers. In the list of microfilms, they are Urberi tabellak 1767-1773. The documents are in archaic Slovak and Latin.

            Also, Richard Marsina and Michal Kusik wrote Urbare feudalnych pastiev na Slovensku (1959). Vol. 1 deals with the 16th century and Vol. 2 with the 17th century. I ordered this on interlibrary loan at my local public library. The information presented varies from year to year.

            Rajec near Zilina has a nice little restaurant. But it is also very near Rajec Teplice, my favorite spa in all Slovakia. The old building is very ornate. There is live music and dancing on summer evenings. And a small bar next to the pool serves slivovce.

            Margo

            gklodzen@... wrote:

            A much more likely possibility, Vladimir. Some questions, please. What is
            the meaning of Urbars, and is this record available? Also, where is the town
            of Rajec?

            Many thanks,
            Eugene

            In a message dated 2/4/2008 2:10:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
            konekta@... writes:

            Dear Eugene,
            In available Urbars I found one occurence of
            Klaczan surname of a serf in 1688, town of Rajec, Estate of Zilina Jesuites.
            Vladimir

            **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
            (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
            48)

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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          • konekta@nm.psg.sk
            Dear Margo, However you turn this around, there is no more info as I already gave. The two books which you ordered were my source. I took all the names from
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 5, 2008
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              Dear Margo,
              However you turn this around, there is no more info as I already gave.
              The two books which you ordered were my source. I took all the names from
              all places from all estates from both books.
              You will look in the book and find exaclty what I found and nothing more.
              This is the oldest source of occurences of serf names here.
              Vladimir


              _____

              From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Margo Smith
              Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 7:06 PM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano - photo of church for Bill Tarkulich



              Eugene, Vladimir will probably expand on this reply because he is the
              expert. In the meantime, the Urbars are the old feudal tax records which
              list the serf taxpayers. The records from 1770ish are available on microfilm
              from the Family History Centers. In the list of microfilms, they are Urberi
              tabellak 1767-1773. The documents are in archaic Slovak and Latin.

              Also, Richard Marsina and Michal Kusik wrote Urbare feudalnych pastiev na
              Slovensku (1959). Vol. 1 deals with the 16th century and Vol. 2 with the
              17th century. I ordered this on interlibrary loan at my local public
              library. The information presented varies from year to year.

              Rajec near Zilina has a nice little restaurant. But it is also very near
              Rajec Teplice, my favorite spa in all Slovakia. The old building is very
              ornate. There is live music and dancing on summer evenings. And a small bar
              next to the pool serves slivovce.

              Margo

              gklodzen@aol. <mailto:gklodzen%40aol.com> com wrote:

              A much more likely possibility, Vladimir. Some questions, please. What is
              the meaning of Urbars, and is this record available? Also, where is the town

              of Rajec?

              Many thanks,
              Eugene

              In a message dated 2/4/2008 2:10:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
              konekta@.... <mailto:konekta%40nm.psg.sk> sk writes:

              Dear Eugene,
              In available Urbars I found one occurence of
              Klaczan surname of a serf in 1688, town of Rajec, Estate of Zilina Jesuites.
              Vladimir

              **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
              (http://music.
              <http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp0030000
              00025> aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
              48)

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            • Margo Smith
              Vladimir, I am glad we are on the same page. Nevertheless, I chuckle to think of the librarians at Regenstein (University of Chicago) who will be getting more
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 7, 2008
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                Vladimir, I am glad we are on the same page.

                Nevertheless, I chuckle to think of the librarians at Regenstein (University of Chicago) who will be getting more interlibrary loan requests for a book which probably has not circulated very often!

                Margo

                konekta@... wrote:
                Dear Margo,
                However you turn this around, there is no more info as I already gave.
                The two books which you ordered were my source. I took all the names from
                all places from all estates from both books.
                You will look in the book and find exaclty what I found and nothing more.
                This is the oldest source of occurences of serf names here.
                Vladimir


                _____

                From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Margo Smith
                Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 7:06 PM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano - photo of church for Bill Tarkulich

                Eugene, Vladimir will probably expand on this reply because he is the
                expert. In the meantime, the Urbars are the old feudal tax records which
                list the serf taxpayers. The records from 1770ish are available on microfilm
                from the Family History Centers. In the list of microfilms, they are Urberi
                tabellak 1767-1773. The documents are in archaic Slovak and Latin.

                Also, Richard Marsina and Michal Kusik wrote Urbare feudalnych pastiev na
                Slovensku (1959). Vol. 1 deals with the 16th century and Vol. 2 with the
                17th century. I ordered this on interlibrary loan at my local public
                library. The information presented varies from year to year.

                Rajec near Zilina has a nice little restaurant. But it is also very near
                Rajec Teplice, my favorite spa in all Slovakia. The old building is very
                ornate. There is live music and dancing on summer evenings. And a small bar
                next to the pool serves slivovce.

                Margo

                gklodzen@aol. <mailto:gklodzen%40aol.com> com wrote:

                A much more likely possibility, Vladimir. Some questions, please. What is
                the meaning of Urbars, and is this record available? Also, where is the town

                of Rajec?

                Many thanks,
                Eugene

                In a message dated 2/4/2008 2:10:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                konekta@.... <mailto:konekta%40nm.psg.sk> sk writes:

                Dear Eugene,
                In available Urbars I found one occurence of
                Klaczan surname of a serf in 1688, town of Rajec, Estate of Zilina Jesuites.
                Vladimir

                **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
                (http://music.
                <http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp0030000
                00025> aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
                48)

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