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Re: [S-R] baptismal - sodalis

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  • maxine
    Thanks Valadimir for the info and you are right. However, I do not do it by myself, I do not have the knowledge you and the others have. I am still learning
    Message 1 of 30 , Dec 4, 2007
      Thanks Valadimir for the info and you are right. However, I do not do it by myself, I do not have the knowledge you and the others have. I am still learning and I have a lot to learn. That is why these sites, like SR, are so helpful, usually everyone on the site tries to help each other. I am grateful for that. maxine


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: konekta@...
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 2:34 AM
      Subject: RE: [S-R] baptismal - sodalis


      Dear Maxine,
      Studying church records is not that simple as one might think. If you can
      not read what is there then the whole effort is in vain. You will miss
      information.
      Some people do their "own research" by coordinating the work of other people
      who know.
      If you really want to do it by yourself, then you have to learn and learn.
      Vladimir


      _____

      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of maxine
      Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 2:42 PM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [S-R] baptismal - sodalis

      Hi Vladimir, thanks for the info. I think that is why so many of us are
      confused. Me at least. I do not know the difference between the latin,
      Rusyn, Slovak, etc. Thanks for your help. maxine

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: konekta@.... <mailto:konekta%40nm.psg.sk> sk
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 1:47 AM
      Subject: RE: [S-R] baptismal - sodalis

      No, Maxine
      It would be latin-english
      Vladimir

      _____

      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of maxine
      Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 7:40 PM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [S-R] baptismal - sodalis

      Hi, having a list of "words" would be great! It must be stated if they are
      Rusyn or Slovak or ? I would be more than happy to do this, however,
      I have no knowledge of any language. Only know a few words. It is my hope
      someday to contribute to this group, and others, however, I am just learning
      myself. Attempting to learn the computer for 3 years now and the history,
      customs, etc of my people. Presently the only thing I can contribute are
      photo's. But there again I do not know how to send them. One day I hope to
      be able to contribute a lot more as I have learned much from the people on
      this site. Ron, I believe you know this! thanks guys maxine sasala

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Ron Matviyak
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 5:39 AM
      Subject: Re: [S-R] baptismal - sodalis

      Maxine,

      If you are willing to collect and consolidate the individual lists
      that members have, you could make a major contribution to the forum.
      I have collected some words and I am sure others have as well. If we
      all share, and you (or some other generous person) volunteers to
      consolidate the list and post it under the 'files' part of the S-R web
      page, we can add to it as time passes.

      Ron

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      yahoogroups.com, "maxine" <maxine96@...> wrote:
      >
      > Vladimir, since you are so knowledgeable, and without patience with
      us, could you start a "file" with the words we are asking about. Then
      we can refer back to them. New words are confusing to us. That would
      be helpful. maxine
      >
      > ps Boy this group really shoots from the hip!
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: konekta@...
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 4:25 PM
      > Subject: RE: [S-R] baptismal - sodalis
      >
      >
      > Dear Janet,
      > It is Journeyman.
      > Vladimir
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      yahoogroups.com] On
      > Behalf Of Janet Kozlay
      > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 10:14 PM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: RE: [S-R] baptismal - sodalis
      >
      > Ah, Vladimir, you must be patient with us. Sometimes we need to
      see it more
      > than once, if we even noted it the first time. I didn't even
      recognize it as
      > an abbreviation. So could you give us a little hint?
      >
      > Janet
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > yahoogroups.com] On
      > Behalf Of konekta@... <mailto:konekta%40nm.psg.sk> sk
      > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 4:01 PM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: RE: [S-R] baptismal
      >
      > We already explained in the past what the word Sodalis means.
      > Vladimir
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > yahoogroups.com] On
      > Behalf Of Janet Kozlay
      > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:59 PM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: RE: [S-R] baptismal
      >
      > Dear Christine,
      >
      > The word recte means correctly. I am guessing that "recte
      Olsavszky" was
      > added to correct the wrong name, Kuczko. But of course this leaves the
      > question of why Kuczko was used in the first place.
      >
      > It is possible that Olsavszky was an alias of Kuczko, but in those
      cases it
      > usually just says "alias."
      >
      > Or it might have simply been an error of the priest in writing
      down the
      > wrong name and then later correcting it, but you wouldn't think it
      would
      > have happened twice.
      >
      > Do you see the use of the name Kuczko elsewhere in the records?
      >
      > I don't think John's "relicta" can be right since you indicate she was
      > "virgo" in her marriage record.
      >
      > The word "asciarius," as John has already said, means carpenter,
      and must
      > refer to Makara.
      >
      > The word "sod" is a puzzle to me.
      >
      > Janet
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > yahoogroups.com] On
      > Behalf Of christine mackara
      > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 3:15 PM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [S-R] baptismal
      >
      > Hello,
      > I need some help.
      > I found in the RC records of Presov, two baptismal entries for the
      Makara
      > Fam., were the name of our greatgrandmother was entered with an
      addition,
      > that I don't see in other entries.
      > Under the heading for the parents of the baptized it looks like :
      > Johann Makara
      > Maria Kuczko recte
      > Olsavszky
      > asciarius sod. RC
      > In the other 5 baptism, Maria is refered to as "Maria Olsavszky"
      (or varius
      > spellings of that name!) only.
      > In the marriage record she is refered to as "virgo" under heading of
      > "conditio"
      > What could the word "recte" mean in your opinion? The copy from
      the film is
      > not too good, but that is what I make of it. Just wondering.
      >
      > Christine
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Bill Tarkulich
      Hello Maxine, Vladimir is most certainly correct. Simply knowing the words will not be sufficient. Understanding the context in which they are written is
      Message 2 of 30 , Dec 4, 2007
        Hello Maxine,

        Vladimir is most certainly correct. Simply knowing the words will not be
        sufficient. Understanding the context in which they are written is
        essential. That's why when someone asks for a translation of a word or
        sentence, I ask to see the whole page or more. It puts it into context of
        the writer, the handwriting, the general form of the document. From there
        we can deduce the style and method of that particular writer - everyone
        writes differently.

        Taken to the next level, understanding the history of the time in which
        you are examining is extremely helpful and productive. National, regional
        and village histories are all essential reading. Again, this is putting
        the event in context. It helps to explain the "why" which we are always
        left with.

        Care must often be taken when we make generalizations. Often we find
        ourselves grasping for generalizations, perhaps about lifestyle of our
        ancestors. We may take a wide-ranging book on Slovak customs and assume
        they were the same in our village. Maybe not. Even from nearby villages,
        customs could vary significantly. There are more than 2,500 villages in
        Slovakia alone.

        We must also take care not to assume or "read into" material too deeply or
        take a single data point as fact. I always insist on at least one
        additional, independent source by which to corroborate my facts. It is
        only then that I have enough confidence to declare it a fact.

        Back to words. First, you must at least identify which language the
        document is written in before you even have a chance to begin. Read more,
        look at all the samples you can, not just of your research work, but the
        work of others.

        With regard to word lists, there are hundreds of word lists available
        today. Perhaps the best lists are those compiled and available for free
        from the Family History Center.
        http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/RG/frameset_rhelps.asp

        For Example:
        Latin: http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/RG/guide/WLLatin.asp
        "Hungarian"/Magyar: http://tinyurl.com/b9qqx
        There are several others.

        I have also compiled a list of my favorites,
        http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/language.htm which is a good starting
        point.

        Best of Luck,

        Bill Tarkulich


        On Tue, December 4, 2007 2:34 am, konekta@... wrote:
        > Dear Maxine,
        > Studying church records is not that simple as one might think. If you can
        > not read what is there then the whole effort is in vain. You will miss
        > information.
        > Some people do their "own research" by coordinating the work of other
        > people
        > who know.
        > If you really want to do it by yourself, then you have to learn and learn.
        > Vladimir
        >
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
        > On
        > Behalf Of maxine
        > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 2:42 PM
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [S-R] baptismal - sodalis
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi Vladimir, thanks for the info. I think that is why so many of us are
        > confused. Me at least. I do not know the difference between the latin,
        > Rusyn, Slovak, etc. Thanks for your help. maxine
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: konekta@.... <mailto:konekta%40nm.psg.sk> sk
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 1:47 AM
        > Subject: RE: [S-R] baptismal - sodalis
        >
        > No, Maxine
        > It would be latin-english
        > Vladimir
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
        > yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
        > yahoogroups.com] On
        > Behalf Of maxine
        > Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 7:40 PM
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [S-R] baptismal - sodalis
        >
        > Hi, having a list of "words" would be great! It must be stated if they are
        > Rusyn or Slovak or ? I would be more than happy to do this, however,
        > I have no knowledge of any language. Only know a few words. It is my hope
        > someday to contribute to this group, and others, however, I am just
        > learning
        > myself. Attempting to learn the computer for 3 years now and the history,
        > customs, etc of my people. Presently the only thing I can contribute are
        > photo's. But there again I do not know how to send them. One day I hope to
        > be able to contribute a lot more as I have learned much from the people on
        > this site. Ron, I believe you know this! thanks guys maxine sasala
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Ron Matviyak
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 5:39 AM
        > Subject: Re: [S-R] baptismal - sodalis
        >
        > Maxine,
        >
        > If you are willing to collect and consolidate the individual lists
        > that members have, you could make a major contribution to the forum.
        > I have collected some words and I am sure others have as well. If we
        > all share, and you (or some other generous person) volunteers to
        > consolidate the list and post it under the 'files' part of the S-R web
        > page, we can add to it as time passes.
        >
        > Ron
        >

        --
        Bill Tarkulich
        http://www.iabsi.com
      • konekta@nm.psg.sk
        Dear Maxine, What I mean is, when you are sitting with the viewer, you are alone. You can not consult the this site. In case you get stuck, you must stop , go
        Message 3 of 30 , Dec 4, 2007
          Dear Maxine,
          What I mean is, when you are sitting with the viewer, you are alone. You can
          not consult the this site. In case you get stuck, you must stop , go home
          and talk to us. But, you must also be able to realize that there is
          something you should be able to read before going on.This is not very
          practical, if you stop every now and then. If you can not read, you don't
          even know what and when you missed something.
          Best,
          Vladimir


          _____

          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of maxine
          Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 1:16 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] baptismal - sodalis



          Thanks Valadimir for the info and you are right. However, I do not do it by
          myself, I do not have the knowledge you and the others have. I am still
          learning and I have a lot to learn. That is why these sites, like SR, are so
          helpful, usually everyone on the site tries to help each other. I am
          grateful for that. maxine

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: konekta@.... <mailto:konekta%40nm.psg.sk> sk
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 2:34 AM
          Subject: RE: [S-R] baptismal - sodalis

          Dear Maxine,
          Studying church records is not that simple as one might think. If you can
          not read what is there then the whole effort is in vain. You will miss
          information.
          Some people do their "own research" by coordinating the work of other people
          who know.
          If you really want to do it by yourself, then you have to learn and learn.
          Vladimir

          _____

          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of maxine
          Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 2:42 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] baptismal - sodalis

          Hi Vladimir, thanks for the info. I think that is why so many of us are
          confused. Me at least. I do not know the difference between the latin,
          Rusyn, Slovak, etc. Thanks for your help. maxine

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: konekta@... <mailto:konekta%40nm.psg> .
          <mailto:konekta%40nm.psg.sk> sk
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 1:47 AM
          Subject: RE: [S-R] baptismal - sodalis

          No, Maxine
          It would be latin-english
          Vladimir

          _____

          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of maxine
          Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 7:40 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] baptismal - sodalis

          Hi, having a list of "words" would be great! It must be stated if they are
          Rusyn or Slovak or ? I would be more than happy to do this, however,
          I have no knowledge of any language. Only know a few words. It is my hope
          someday to contribute to this group, and others, however, I am just learning
          myself. Attempting to learn the computer for 3 years now and the history,
          customs, etc of my people. Presently the only thing I can contribute are
          photo's. But there again I do not know how to send them. One day I hope to
          be able to contribute a lot more as I have learned much from the people on
          this site. Ron, I believe you know this! thanks guys maxine sasala

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Ron Matviyak
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 5:39 AM
          Subject: Re: [S-R] baptismal - sodalis

          Maxine,

          If you are willing to collect and consolidate the individual lists
          that members have, you could make a major contribution to the forum.
          I have collected some words and I am sure others have as well. If we
          all share, and you (or some other generous person) volunteers to
          consolidate the list and post it under the 'files' part of the S-R web
          page, we can add to it as time passes.

          Ron

          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          yahoogroups.com, "maxine" <maxine96@...> wrote:
          >
          > Vladimir, since you are so knowledgeable, and without patience with
          us, could you start a "file" with the words we are asking about. Then
          we can refer back to them. New words are confusing to us. That would
          be helpful. maxine
          >
          > ps Boy this group really shoots from the hip!
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: konekta@...
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 4:25 PM
          > Subject: RE: [S-R] baptismal - sodalis
          >
          >
          > Dear Janet,
          > It is Journeyman.
          > Vladimir
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          yahoogroups.com] On
          > Behalf Of Janet Kozlay
          > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 10:14 PM
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: RE: [S-R] baptismal - sodalis
          >
          > Ah, Vladimir, you must be patient with us. Sometimes we need to
          see it more
          > than once, if we even noted it the first time. I didn't even
          recognize it as
          > an abbreviation. So could you give us a little hint?
          >
          > Janet
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          > yahoogroups.com] On
          > Behalf Of konekta@... <mailto:konekta%40nm.psg.sk> sk
          > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 4:01 PM
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: RE: [S-R] baptismal
          >
          > We already explained in the past what the word Sodalis means.
          > Vladimir
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          > yahoogroups.com] On
          > Behalf Of Janet Kozlay
          > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:59 PM
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: RE: [S-R] baptismal
          >
          > Dear Christine,
          >
          > The word recte means correctly. I am guessing that "recte
          Olsavszky" was
          > added to correct the wrong name, Kuczko. But of course this leaves the
          > question of why Kuczko was used in the first place.
          >
          > It is possible that Olsavszky was an alias of Kuczko, but in those
          cases it
          > usually just says "alias."
          >
          > Or it might have simply been an error of the priest in writing
          down the
          > wrong name and then later correcting it, but you wouldn't think it
          would
          > have happened twice.
          >
          > Do you see the use of the name Kuczko elsewhere in the records?
          >
          > I don't think John's "relicta" can be right since you indicate she was
          > "virgo" in her marriage record.
          >
          > The word "asciarius," as John has already said, means carpenter,
          and must
          > refer to Makara.
          >
          > The word "sod" is a puzzle to me.
          >
          > Janet
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          > yahoogroups.com] On
          > Behalf Of christine mackara
          > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 3:15 PM
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [S-R] baptismal
          >
          > Hello,
          > I need some help.
          > I found in the RC records of Presov, two baptismal entries for the
          Makara
          > Fam., were the name of our greatgrandmother was entered with an
          addition,
          > that I don't see in other entries.
          > Under the heading for the parents of the baptized it looks like :
          > Johann Makara
          > Maria Kuczko recte
          > Olsavszky
          > asciarius sod. RC
          > In the other 5 baptism, Maria is refered to as "Maria Olsavszky"
          (or varius
          > spellings of that name!) only.
          > In the marriage record she is refered to as "virgo" under heading of
          > "conditio"
          > What could the word "recte" mean in your opinion? The copy from
          the film is
          > not too good, but that is what I make of it. Just wondering.
          >
          > Christine
          >
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