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Re: [S-R] Klacsano

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  • June McKee
    Eugene, just curious, where did you find your family records if they are indeed in the Ukraine? June ... From: gklodzen@aol.com To:
    Message 1 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
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      Eugene,

      just curious, where did you find your family records if they are indeed in the Ukraine?

      June
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: gklodzen@...
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:06 PM
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano



      An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand
      correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne (my
      grandfather's village, thus the question), including Klacsano, has become
      part of Ukraine? If so I know how fortunate I was to find the family records
      that I did.

      Many thanks for your time,
      Eugene Klodzen


      In a message dated 12/2/2007 8:25:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      rmom@... writes:

      The third reference map is the following, where Vinna is shown:

      _http://lazarus.http://lazarhttp://lahttp://lazhttp://la_
      (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-49.jpg)

      Sorry!

      --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
      , "fernbrough" <rmom@...> wrote:
      >
      > Eugene:
      >
      > This map is part of the "3rd Military Mapping Survey for
      > Austria-Hungary" Austria-Hungary"<WBR>. They are dated in the lower
      > for Munkacs was dated 1889.
      >
      > _http://lazarus.http://lazarhttp://lahttp://lazarus.htt_
      (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm)
      >
      > It's an interactive map just click on the city/area you are interested
      > in researching.
      >
      > Munkacs was in Bereg County, just southeast of Ung county.
      >
      > _http://www.talmamedhttp://www.http://wwhttp://www.talmhttp://www_
      (http://www.talmamedia.com/map/hhcounty/images/megyek1/beugun.gif)
      >
      > Your Vinna-Banka is shown as Vinna on this map. On the left side
      > margin look for 49 degrees. Vinna is a little bit to the right, half
      > way down the map.
      >
      > All of these maps are found on Bill T's web site.
      >
      > Good researching!
      >
      > Bob S.
      >
      >
      > --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
      , gklodzen@ wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > Just curious, but does anyone know where the town of VinnaBanka
      is in
      > > relationship to Munkacs on this map? Also, is this a map of the old
      > Ung county or
      > > of another region?
      > >
      > > Many thanks,
      > > Eugene Klodzen

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    • gklodzen@aol.com
      Sorry, June. I did not make that very clear. Vinne is, fortunately, not in Ukraine. I found my family records among those church records photographed by LDS
      Message 2 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
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        Sorry, June. I did not make that very clear. Vinne is, fortunately, not in
        Ukraine. I found my family records among those church records photographed by
        LDS volunteers in the 1990s and available now to researchers from the Family
        History Library.

        On the other hand, the 1869 Hungarian Census for Vinne is not available, and
        I'm not certain why, but I believe it might have something to do with
        Ukraine. I was able to piece a part of my 19th century family's history together
        from those church documents, but because of the missing 1869 Census not all of
        it.

        I gather that Klacsano is in that part of Ung county that was absorbed into
        Ukraine.

        Good luck with your research,
        Eugene





        In a message dated 12/3/2007 1:16:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
        junemckee@... writes:

        Eugene,

        just curious, where did you find your family records if they are indeed in
        the Ukraine?

        June
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: _gklodzen@..._ (mailto:gklodzen@...)
        To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
        Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:06 PM
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano

        An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand
        correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne
        (my
        grandfather'grandfather'<WBR>s village, thus the question), including Klac
        part of Ukraine? If so I know how fortunate I was to find the family records
        that I did.

        Many thanks for your time,
        Eugene Klodzen








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        products.
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • June McKee
        Thanks Eugene I think I am going to need all of the luck I can get with being in the Ukraine. Maybe someday that area will be able to be filmed or possibly I
        Message 3 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
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          Thanks Eugene I think I am going to need all of the luck I can get with being in the Ukraine. Maybe someday that area will be able to be filmed or possibly I will be able to find someone that can do a search in there.

          Good luck to you aswell,
          June
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: gklodzen@...
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 1:45 PM
          Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano



          Sorry, June. I did not make that very clear. Vinne is, fortunately, not in
          Ukraine. I found my family records among those church records photographed by
          LDS volunteers in the 1990s and available now to researchers from the Family
          History Library.

          On the other hand, the 1869 Hungarian Census for Vinne is not available, and
          I'm not certain why, but I believe it might have something to do with
          Ukraine. I was able to piece a part of my 19th century family's history together
          from those church documents, but because of the missing 1869 Census not all of
          it.

          I gather that Klacsano is in that part of Ung county that was absorbed into
          Ukraine.

          Good luck with your research,
          Eugene





          In a message dated 12/3/2007 1:16:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
          junemckee@... writes:

          Eugene,

          just curious, where did you find your family records if they are indeed in
          the Ukraine?

          June
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: _gklodzen@..._ (mailto:gklodzen@...)
          To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
          Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:06 PM
          Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano

          An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand
          correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne
          (my
          grandfather'grandfather'<WBR>s village, thus the question), including Klac
          part of Ukraine? If so I know how fortunate I was to find the family records
          that I did.

          Many thanks for your time,
          Eugene Klodzen

          **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
          products.
          (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • johnqadam
          ... I m not certain why, but I believe it might have something to do with Ukraine.
          Message 4 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
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            >>> the 1869 Hungarian Census for Vinne is not available, and
            I'm not certain why, but I believe it might have something to do with
            Ukraine. <<<

            BINGO!!!!

            The 1869 Ung Megye Hungarian Census is believed to be in Uzhorod
            Archive, so far lost to genealogy research. However, there is always
            hope!
          • Janet Kozlay
            For Eugene Klodzen, Vladimir s information looks very significant. The old ELTE map of Trencsen megye shows that Rajec(z) is right next to Klacsan, now Klace
            Message 5 of 30 , Feb 5, 2008
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              For Eugene Klodzen, Vladimir's information looks very significant. The old
              ELTE map of Trencsen megye shows that Rajec(z) is right next to Klacsan, now
              Klace SK. Old Hungarian spellings also include Kleczen and Kalacsany. Roman
              Catholic church records for Klacsan are with Rajec, which go back all the
              way to 1674.



              Despite the similarity in names, there would appear to be no relation
              between the village of Klacsano near Munkacs and Klacsan in Trencsen.



              Janet





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            • gklodzen@aol.com
              Janet, Margo, Vladimir, John and All, Many thanks for this recent information which may open yet another door into the family past, and which I would likely
              Message 6 of 30 , Feb 6, 2008
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                Janet, Margo, Vladimir, John and All,

                Many thanks for this recent information which may open yet another door into
                the family past, and which I would likely never have known had I not been a
                member of this group of "generous with their knowledge" family history
                researchers like yourselves. You can be sure that I will be ordering the relevant
                microfilm from the Family History Center.

                As someone said, 'Genealogy becomes rather addictive. No sooner do you find
                one ancestor but you start looking for another even further back in time.' So
                true. But even better then finding just that ancestor is the historical
                perspective that unfolds during the search, the added knowledge of the time and
                place in which the ancestor lived, thus some of which he or she may have
                personally experienced. As one who never knew his grandparents, this research
                odyssey has taught me much about them, ...and myself.

                Many thanks for your help along the way,
                Eugene Klodzen





                In a message dated 2/5/2008 10:04:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                kozlay@... writes:

                For Eugene Klodzen, Vladimir's information looks very significant. The old
                ELTE map of Trencsen megye shows that Rajec(z) is right next to Klacsan, now
                Klace SK. Old Hungarian spellings also include Kleczen and Kalacsany. Roman
                Catholic church records for Klacsan are with Rajec, which go back all the
                way to 1674.

                Despite the similarity in names, there would appear to be no relation
                between the village of Klacsano near Munkacs and Klacsan in Trencsen.

                Janet



                <<Eugene, Vladimir will probably expand on this reply because he is the
                expert. In the meantime, the Urbars are the old feudal tax records which list the
                serf taxpayers. The records from 1770ish are available on microfilm from the
                Family History Centers. In the list of microfilms, they are Urberi tabellak
                1767-1773. The documents are in archaic Slovak and Latin.

                Also, Richard Marsina and Michal Kusik wrote Urbare feudalnych pastiev na
                Slovensku (1959). Vol. 1 deals with the 16th century and Vol. 2 with the 17th
                century. I ordered this on interlibrary loan at my local public library. The
                information presented varies from year to year.

                Rajec near Zilina has a nice little restaurant. But it is also very near
                Rajec Teplice, my favorite spa in all Slovakia. The old building is very ornate.
                There is live music and dancing on summer evenings. And a small bar next to
                the pool serves slivovce.>>

                Margo




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              • gklodzen@aol.com
                Janet, Vladimir and All, To add a little more information with regard to our recent discussion of villages Rajecz, Klacsan and Kladzan: In searching through
                Message 7 of 30 , Feb 7, 2008
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                  Janet, Vladimir and All,

                  To add a little more information with regard to our recent discussion of
                  villages Rajecz, Klacsan and Kladzan:

                  In searching through the old Hungarian map, circa 1910:

                  _http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg_
                  (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg)

                  I've found the old village of Kladzan to be in Zemplin County at these
                  coordinates:

                  21 degrees, 45 minutes, & 48 degrees, 45 minutes (hope that's the right
                  terminology)

                  As village Kladzan was considerably closer to present day Vinne then was
                  village Klaczan (located in Trencen County) I'm speculating now that perhaps my
                  KLADZAN ancestors found in Vinne may have had their origins in village
                  Kladzan rather then the more distant village Klacsan. And, as the spelling of
                  both the ancestral surname and the village are identical, it seems a likely
                  possibility.

                  So, next up will be a search of records (church and others) covering years
                  prior to 1812, the year of the earliest KLADZAN found in Vinne. Any thoughts
                  or suggestions would, as always, be much appreciated.

                  Many thanks,
                  Eugene Klodzen (researching KLADZAN, PIKULA, HLADKY, LABADA)





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