Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [S-R] Klacsano

Expand Messages
  • fernbrough
    The third reference map is the following, where Vinna is shown: http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-49.jpg Sorry! ... is in
    Message 1 of 30 , Dec 2, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      The third reference map is the following, where Vinna is shown:

      http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-49.jpg

      Sorry!


      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "fernbrough" <rmom@...> wrote:
      >
      > Eugene:
      >
      > This map is part of the "3rd Military Mapping Survey for
      > Austria-Hungary". They are dated in the lower right corner; the one
      > for Munkacs was dated 1889.
      >
      > http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm
      >
      > It's an interactive map just click on the city/area you are interested
      > in researching.
      >
      > Munkacs was in Bereg County, just southeast of Ung county.
      >
      > http://www.talmamedia.com/map/hhcounty/images/megyek1/beugun.gif
      >
      > Your Vinna-Banka is shown as Vinna on this map. On the left side
      > margin look for 49 degrees. Vinna is a little bit to the right, half
      > way down the map.
      >
      > All of these maps are found on Bill T's web site.
      >
      > Good researching!
      >
      > Bob S.
      >
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, gklodzen@ wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > Just curious, but does anyone know where the town of VinnaBanka
      is in
      > > relationship to Munkacs on this map? Also, is this a map of the old
      > Ung county or
      > > of another region?
      > >
      > > Many thanks,
      > > Eugene Klodzen
      > >
      > > I
      >
    • gklodzen@aol.com
      An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne (my
      Message 2 of 30 , Dec 2, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand
        correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne (my
        grandfather's village, thus the question), including Klacsano, has become
        part of Ukraine? If so I know how fortunate I was to find the family records
        that I did.

        Many thanks for your time,
        Eugene Klodzen


        In a message dated 12/2/2007 8:25:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
        rmom@... writes:

        The third reference map is the following, where Vinna is shown:

        _http://lazarus.http://lazarhttp://lahttp://lazhttp://la_
        (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-49.jpg)

        Sorry!

        --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
        , "fernbrough" <rmom@...> wrote:
        >
        > Eugene:
        >
        > This map is part of the "3rd Military Mapping Survey for
        > Austria-Hungary" Austria-Hungary"<WBR>. They are dated in the lower
        > for Munkacs was dated 1889.
        >
        > _http://lazarus.http://lazarhttp://lahttp://lazarus.htt_
        (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm)
        >
        > It's an interactive map just click on the city/area you are interested
        > in researching.
        >
        > Munkacs was in Bereg County, just southeast of Ung county.
        >
        > _http://www.talmamedhttp://www.http://wwhttp://www.talmhttp://www_
        (http://www.talmamedia.com/map/hhcounty/images/megyek1/beugun.gif)
        >
        > Your Vinna-Banka is shown as Vinna on this map. On the left side
        > margin look for 49 degrees. Vinna is a little bit to the right, half
        > way down the map.
        >
        > All of these maps are found on Bill T's web site.
        >
        > Good researching!
        >
        > Bob S.
        >
        >
        > --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
        , gklodzen@ wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > Just curious, but does anyone know where the town of VinnaBanka
        is in
        > > relationship to Munkacs on this map? Also, is this a map of the old
        > Ung county or
        > > of another region?
        > >
        > > Many thanks,
        > > Eugene Klodzen







        **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
        products.
        (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ron Matviyak
        ... bit to the right, half way down the map. A word of caution with the old maps from Austria-Hungary. The latitude shown on the old maps is Ferro, not
        Message 3 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          > On the left side> > margin look for 49 degrees. Vinna is a little
          bit to the right, half> > way down the map.

          A word of caution with the old maps from Austria-Hungary. The
          latitude shown on the old maps is Ferro, not Greenwich. Thus the
          numbers are about 17° 40' So if you have some need for the modern
          longitude, subtract 17° 40' from what the map says and you will be
          very close to the modern Greenwich value.

          Here is a bit of edited history taken from Wikipedia:

          FERRO, Canary Islands, was known in Europe as the prime meridian in
          common use outside of the future British Empire. In the 2nd century
          A.D., Ptolemy considered a zero meridian based on the western-most
          position of the known world, giving maps with only positive (eastern)
          longitudes.

          In 1634 France decided that Ferro's meridian should be used as the
          reference on maps, since this island is the most western position of
          the Old World and also thought to be exactly 20 degrees west of the
          Paris meridian…

          Old maps (outside of Anglo-America) often have a common grid with
          Paris degrees at the top and Ferro degrees offset by 20 at the bottom.
          Theodor Albrecht (ca. 1890) calculated the Ferro meridian as 17° 39'
          46.02" west of the Greenwich meridian. The geodetic systems of
          Hungary and Yugoslavia, used this value prior to the switch to the
          Greenwich prime meridian.
          But for the geodetic networks of Austria, Germany and Czechoslovakia,
          the value 17° 40' 00" was adopted in the 1920s,
        • June McKee
          Eugene, just curious, where did you find your family records if they are indeed in the Ukraine? June ... From: gklodzen@aol.com To:
          Message 4 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Eugene,

            just curious, where did you find your family records if they are indeed in the Ukraine?

            June
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: gklodzen@...
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:06 PM
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano



            An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand
            correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne (my
            grandfather's village, thus the question), including Klacsano, has become
            part of Ukraine? If so I know how fortunate I was to find the family records
            that I did.

            Many thanks for your time,
            Eugene Klodzen


            In a message dated 12/2/2007 8:25:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
            rmom@... writes:

            The third reference map is the following, where Vinna is shown:

            _http://lazarus.http://lazarhttp://lahttp://lazhttp://la_
            (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-49.jpg)

            Sorry!

            --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
            , "fernbrough" <rmom@...> wrote:
            >
            > Eugene:
            >
            > This map is part of the "3rd Military Mapping Survey for
            > Austria-Hungary" Austria-Hungary"<WBR>. They are dated in the lower
            > for Munkacs was dated 1889.
            >
            > _http://lazarus.http://lazarhttp://lahttp://lazarus.htt_
            (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm)
            >
            > It's an interactive map just click on the city/area you are interested
            > in researching.
            >
            > Munkacs was in Bereg County, just southeast of Ung county.
            >
            > _http://www.talmamedhttp://www.http://wwhttp://www.talmhttp://www_
            (http://www.talmamedia.com/map/hhcounty/images/megyek1/beugun.gif)
            >
            > Your Vinna-Banka is shown as Vinna on this map. On the left side
            > margin look for 49 degrees. Vinna is a little bit to the right, half
            > way down the map.
            >
            > All of these maps are found on Bill T's web site.
            >
            > Good researching!
            >
            > Bob S.
            >
            >
            > --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
            , gklodzen@ wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Just curious, but does anyone know where the town of VinnaBanka
            is in
            > > relationship to Munkacs on this map? Also, is this a map of the old
            > Ung county or
            > > of another region?
            > >
            > > Many thanks,
            > > Eugene Klodzen

            **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
            products.
            (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • gklodzen@aol.com
            Sorry, June. I did not make that very clear. Vinne is, fortunately, not in Ukraine. I found my family records among those church records photographed by LDS
            Message 5 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Sorry, June. I did not make that very clear. Vinne is, fortunately, not in
              Ukraine. I found my family records among those church records photographed by
              LDS volunteers in the 1990s and available now to researchers from the Family
              History Library.

              On the other hand, the 1869 Hungarian Census for Vinne is not available, and
              I'm not certain why, but I believe it might have something to do with
              Ukraine. I was able to piece a part of my 19th century family's history together
              from those church documents, but because of the missing 1869 Census not all of
              it.

              I gather that Klacsano is in that part of Ung county that was absorbed into
              Ukraine.

              Good luck with your research,
              Eugene





              In a message dated 12/3/2007 1:16:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
              junemckee@... writes:

              Eugene,

              just curious, where did you find your family records if they are indeed in
              the Ukraine?

              June
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: _gklodzen@..._ (mailto:gklodzen@...)
              To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
              Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:06 PM
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano

              An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand
              correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne
              (my
              grandfather'grandfather'<WBR>s village, thus the question), including Klac
              part of Ukraine? If so I know how fortunate I was to find the family records
              that I did.

              Many thanks for your time,
              Eugene Klodzen








              **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
              products.
              (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • June McKee
              Thanks Eugene I think I am going to need all of the luck I can get with being in the Ukraine. Maybe someday that area will be able to be filmed or possibly I
              Message 6 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Thanks Eugene I think I am going to need all of the luck I can get with being in the Ukraine. Maybe someday that area will be able to be filmed or possibly I will be able to find someone that can do a search in there.

                Good luck to you aswell,
                June
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: gklodzen@...
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 1:45 PM
                Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano



                Sorry, June. I did not make that very clear. Vinne is, fortunately, not in
                Ukraine. I found my family records among those church records photographed by
                LDS volunteers in the 1990s and available now to researchers from the Family
                History Library.

                On the other hand, the 1869 Hungarian Census for Vinne is not available, and
                I'm not certain why, but I believe it might have something to do with
                Ukraine. I was able to piece a part of my 19th century family's history together
                from those church documents, but because of the missing 1869 Census not all of
                it.

                I gather that Klacsano is in that part of Ung county that was absorbed into
                Ukraine.

                Good luck with your research,
                Eugene





                In a message dated 12/3/2007 1:16:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                junemckee@... writes:

                Eugene,

                just curious, where did you find your family records if they are indeed in
                the Ukraine?

                June
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: _gklodzen@..._ (mailto:gklodzen@...)
                To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:06 PM
                Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano

                An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand
                correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne
                (my
                grandfather'grandfather'<WBR>s village, thus the question), including Klac
                part of Ukraine? If so I know how fortunate I was to find the family records
                that I did.

                Many thanks for your time,
                Eugene Klodzen

                **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                products.
                (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • johnqadam
                ... I m not certain why, but I believe it might have something to do with Ukraine.
                Message 7 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  >>> the 1869 Hungarian Census for Vinne is not available, and
                  I'm not certain why, but I believe it might have something to do with
                  Ukraine. <<<

                  BINGO!!!!

                  The 1869 Ung Megye Hungarian Census is believed to be in Uzhorod
                  Archive, so far lost to genealogy research. However, there is always
                  hope!
                • Janet Kozlay
                  For Eugene Klodzen, Vladimir s information looks very significant. The old ELTE map of Trencsen megye shows that Rajec(z) is right next to Klacsan, now Klace
                  Message 8 of 30 , Feb 5, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    For Eugene Klodzen, Vladimir's information looks very significant. The old
                    ELTE map of Trencsen megye shows that Rajec(z) is right next to Klacsan, now
                    Klace SK. Old Hungarian spellings also include Kleczen and Kalacsany. Roman
                    Catholic church records for Klacsan are with Rajec, which go back all the
                    way to 1674.



                    Despite the similarity in names, there would appear to be no relation
                    between the village of Klacsano near Munkacs and Klacsan in Trencsen.



                    Janet





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • gklodzen@aol.com
                    Janet, Margo, Vladimir, John and All, Many thanks for this recent information which may open yet another door into the family past, and which I would likely
                    Message 9 of 30 , Feb 6, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Janet, Margo, Vladimir, John and All,

                      Many thanks for this recent information which may open yet another door into
                      the family past, and which I would likely never have known had I not been a
                      member of this group of "generous with their knowledge" family history
                      researchers like yourselves. You can be sure that I will be ordering the relevant
                      microfilm from the Family History Center.

                      As someone said, 'Genealogy becomes rather addictive. No sooner do you find
                      one ancestor but you start looking for another even further back in time.' So
                      true. But even better then finding just that ancestor is the historical
                      perspective that unfolds during the search, the added knowledge of the time and
                      place in which the ancestor lived, thus some of which he or she may have
                      personally experienced. As one who never knew his grandparents, this research
                      odyssey has taught me much about them, ...and myself.

                      Many thanks for your help along the way,
                      Eugene Klodzen





                      In a message dated 2/5/2008 10:04:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                      kozlay@... writes:

                      For Eugene Klodzen, Vladimir's information looks very significant. The old
                      ELTE map of Trencsen megye shows that Rajec(z) is right next to Klacsan, now
                      Klace SK. Old Hungarian spellings also include Kleczen and Kalacsany. Roman
                      Catholic church records for Klacsan are with Rajec, which go back all the
                      way to 1674.

                      Despite the similarity in names, there would appear to be no relation
                      between the village of Klacsano near Munkacs and Klacsan in Trencsen.

                      Janet



                      <<Eugene, Vladimir will probably expand on this reply because he is the
                      expert. In the meantime, the Urbars are the old feudal tax records which list the
                      serf taxpayers. The records from 1770ish are available on microfilm from the
                      Family History Centers. In the list of microfilms, they are Urberi tabellak
                      1767-1773. The documents are in archaic Slovak and Latin.

                      Also, Richard Marsina and Michal Kusik wrote Urbare feudalnych pastiev na
                      Slovensku (1959). Vol. 1 deals with the 16th century and Vol. 2 with the 17th
                      century. I ordered this on interlibrary loan at my local public library. The
                      information presented varies from year to year.

                      Rajec near Zilina has a nice little restaurant. But it is also very near
                      Rajec Teplice, my favorite spa in all Slovakia. The old building is very ornate.
                      There is live music and dancing on summer evenings. And a small bar next to
                      the pool serves slivovce.>>

                      Margo




                      **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
                      (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
                      48)


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • gklodzen@aol.com
                      Janet, Vladimir and All, To add a little more information with regard to our recent discussion of villages Rajecz, Klacsan and Kladzan: In searching through
                      Message 10 of 30 , Feb 7, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Janet, Vladimir and All,

                        To add a little more information with regard to our recent discussion of
                        villages Rajecz, Klacsan and Kladzan:

                        In searching through the old Hungarian map, circa 1910:

                        _http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg_
                        (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg)

                        I've found the old village of Kladzan to be in Zemplin County at these
                        coordinates:

                        21 degrees, 45 minutes, & 48 degrees, 45 minutes (hope that's the right
                        terminology)

                        As village Kladzan was considerably closer to present day Vinne then was
                        village Klaczan (located in Trencen County) I'm speculating now that perhaps my
                        KLADZAN ancestors found in Vinne may have had their origins in village
                        Kladzan rather then the more distant village Klacsan. And, as the spelling of
                        both the ancestral surname and the village are identical, it seems a likely
                        possibility.

                        So, next up will be a search of records (church and others) covering years
                        prior to 1812, the year of the earliest KLADZAN found in Vinne. Any thoughts
                        or suggestions would, as always, be much appreciated.

                        Many thanks,
                        Eugene Klodzen (researching KLADZAN, PIKULA, HLADKY, LABADA)





                        **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
                        (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
                        48)


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.