Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [S-R] Klacsano

Expand Messages
  • fernbrough
    Eugene: This map is part of the 3rd Military Mapping Survey for Austria-Hungary . They are dated in the lower right corner; the one for Munkacs was dated
    Message 1 of 30 , Dec 2, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Eugene:

      This map is part of the "3rd Military Mapping Survey for
      Austria-Hungary". They are dated in the lower right corner; the one
      for Munkacs was dated 1889.

      http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm

      It's an interactive map just click on the city/area you are interested
      in researching.

      Munkacs was in Bereg County, just southeast of Ung county.

      http://www.talmamedia.com/map/hhcounty/images/megyek1/beugun.gif

      Your Vinna-Banka is shown as Vinna on this map. On the left side
      margin look for 49 degrees. Vinna is a little bit to the right, half
      way down the map.

      All of these maps are found on Bill T's web site.

      Good researching!

      Bob S.


      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, gklodzen@... wrote:
      >
      >
      > Just curious, but does anyone know where the town of VinnaBanka is in
      > relationship to Munkacs on this map? Also, is this a map of the old
      Ung county or
      > of another region?
      >
      > Many thanks,
      > Eugene Klodzen
      >
      > I
    • fernbrough
      The third reference map is the following, where Vinna is shown: http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-49.jpg Sorry! ... is in
      Message 2 of 30 , Dec 2, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        The third reference map is the following, where Vinna is shown:

        http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-49.jpg

        Sorry!


        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "fernbrough" <rmom@...> wrote:
        >
        > Eugene:
        >
        > This map is part of the "3rd Military Mapping Survey for
        > Austria-Hungary". They are dated in the lower right corner; the one
        > for Munkacs was dated 1889.
        >
        > http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm
        >
        > It's an interactive map just click on the city/area you are interested
        > in researching.
        >
        > Munkacs was in Bereg County, just southeast of Ung county.
        >
        > http://www.talmamedia.com/map/hhcounty/images/megyek1/beugun.gif
        >
        > Your Vinna-Banka is shown as Vinna on this map. On the left side
        > margin look for 49 degrees. Vinna is a little bit to the right, half
        > way down the map.
        >
        > All of these maps are found on Bill T's web site.
        >
        > Good researching!
        >
        > Bob S.
        >
        >
        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, gklodzen@ wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > Just curious, but does anyone know where the town of VinnaBanka
        is in
        > > relationship to Munkacs on this map? Also, is this a map of the old
        > Ung county or
        > > of another region?
        > >
        > > Many thanks,
        > > Eugene Klodzen
        > >
        > > I
        >
      • gklodzen@aol.com
        An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne (my
        Message 3 of 30 , Dec 2, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand
          correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne (my
          grandfather's village, thus the question), including Klacsano, has become
          part of Ukraine? If so I know how fortunate I was to find the family records
          that I did.

          Many thanks for your time,
          Eugene Klodzen


          In a message dated 12/2/2007 8:25:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
          rmom@... writes:

          The third reference map is the following, where Vinna is shown:

          _http://lazarus.http://lazarhttp://lahttp://lazhttp://la_
          (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-49.jpg)

          Sorry!

          --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
          , "fernbrough" <rmom@...> wrote:
          >
          > Eugene:
          >
          > This map is part of the "3rd Military Mapping Survey for
          > Austria-Hungary" Austria-Hungary"<WBR>. They are dated in the lower
          > for Munkacs was dated 1889.
          >
          > _http://lazarus.http://lazarhttp://lahttp://lazarus.htt_
          (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm)
          >
          > It's an interactive map just click on the city/area you are interested
          > in researching.
          >
          > Munkacs was in Bereg County, just southeast of Ung county.
          >
          > _http://www.talmamedhttp://www.http://wwhttp://www.talmhttp://www_
          (http://www.talmamedia.com/map/hhcounty/images/megyek1/beugun.gif)
          >
          > Your Vinna-Banka is shown as Vinna on this map. On the left side
          > margin look for 49 degrees. Vinna is a little bit to the right, half
          > way down the map.
          >
          > All of these maps are found on Bill T's web site.
          >
          > Good researching!
          >
          > Bob S.
          >
          >
          > --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
          , gklodzen@ wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Just curious, but does anyone know where the town of VinnaBanka
          is in
          > > relationship to Munkacs on this map? Also, is this a map of the old
          > Ung county or
          > > of another region?
          > >
          > > Many thanks,
          > > Eugene Klodzen







          **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
          products.
          (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ron Matviyak
          ... bit to the right, half way down the map. A word of caution with the old maps from Austria-Hungary. The latitude shown on the old maps is Ferro, not
          Message 4 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            > On the left side> > margin look for 49 degrees. Vinna is a little
            bit to the right, half> > way down the map.

            A word of caution with the old maps from Austria-Hungary. The
            latitude shown on the old maps is Ferro, not Greenwich. Thus the
            numbers are about 17° 40' So if you have some need for the modern
            longitude, subtract 17° 40' from what the map says and you will be
            very close to the modern Greenwich value.

            Here is a bit of edited history taken from Wikipedia:

            FERRO, Canary Islands, was known in Europe as the prime meridian in
            common use outside of the future British Empire. In the 2nd century
            A.D., Ptolemy considered a zero meridian based on the western-most
            position of the known world, giving maps with only positive (eastern)
            longitudes.

            In 1634 France decided that Ferro's meridian should be used as the
            reference on maps, since this island is the most western position of
            the Old World and also thought to be exactly 20 degrees west of the
            Paris meridian…

            Old maps (outside of Anglo-America) often have a common grid with
            Paris degrees at the top and Ferro degrees offset by 20 at the bottom.
            Theodor Albrecht (ca. 1890) calculated the Ferro meridian as 17° 39'
            46.02" west of the Greenwich meridian. The geodetic systems of
            Hungary and Yugoslavia, used this value prior to the switch to the
            Greenwich prime meridian.
            But for the geodetic networks of Austria, Germany and Czechoslovakia,
            the value 17° 40' 00" was adopted in the 1920s,
          • June McKee
            Eugene, just curious, where did you find your family records if they are indeed in the Ukraine? June ... From: gklodzen@aol.com To:
            Message 5 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Eugene,

              just curious, where did you find your family records if they are indeed in the Ukraine?

              June
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: gklodzen@...
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:06 PM
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano



              An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand
              correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne (my
              grandfather's village, thus the question), including Klacsano, has become
              part of Ukraine? If so I know how fortunate I was to find the family records
              that I did.

              Many thanks for your time,
              Eugene Klodzen


              In a message dated 12/2/2007 8:25:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
              rmom@... writes:

              The third reference map is the following, where Vinna is shown:

              _http://lazarus.http://lazarhttp://lahttp://lazhttp://la_
              (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-49.jpg)

              Sorry!

              --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
              , "fernbrough" <rmom@...> wrote:
              >
              > Eugene:
              >
              > This map is part of the "3rd Military Mapping Survey for
              > Austria-Hungary" Austria-Hungary"<WBR>. They are dated in the lower
              > for Munkacs was dated 1889.
              >
              > _http://lazarus.http://lazarhttp://lahttp://lazarus.htt_
              (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm)
              >
              > It's an interactive map just click on the city/area you are interested
              > in researching.
              >
              > Munkacs was in Bereg County, just southeast of Ung county.
              >
              > _http://www.talmamedhttp://www.http://wwhttp://www.talmhttp://www_
              (http://www.talmamedia.com/map/hhcounty/images/megyek1/beugun.gif)
              >
              > Your Vinna-Banka is shown as Vinna on this map. On the left side
              > margin look for 49 degrees. Vinna is a little bit to the right, half
              > way down the map.
              >
              > All of these maps are found on Bill T's web site.
              >
              > Good researching!
              >
              > Bob S.
              >
              >
              > --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
              , gklodzen@ wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > Just curious, but does anyone know where the town of VinnaBanka
              is in
              > > relationship to Munkacs on this map? Also, is this a map of the old
              > Ung county or
              > > of another region?
              > >
              > > Many thanks,
              > > Eugene Klodzen

              **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
              products.
              (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • gklodzen@aol.com
              Sorry, June. I did not make that very clear. Vinne is, fortunately, not in Ukraine. I found my family records among those church records photographed by LDS
              Message 6 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Sorry, June. I did not make that very clear. Vinne is, fortunately, not in
                Ukraine. I found my family records among those church records photographed by
                LDS volunteers in the 1990s and available now to researchers from the Family
                History Library.

                On the other hand, the 1869 Hungarian Census for Vinne is not available, and
                I'm not certain why, but I believe it might have something to do with
                Ukraine. I was able to piece a part of my 19th century family's history together
                from those church documents, but because of the missing 1869 Census not all of
                it.

                I gather that Klacsano is in that part of Ung county that was absorbed into
                Ukraine.

                Good luck with your research,
                Eugene





                In a message dated 12/3/2007 1:16:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                junemckee@... writes:

                Eugene,

                just curious, where did you find your family records if they are indeed in
                the Ukraine?

                June
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: _gklodzen@..._ (mailto:gklodzen@...)
                To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:06 PM
                Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano

                An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand
                correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne
                (my
                grandfather'grandfather'<WBR>s village, thus the question), including Klac
                part of Ukraine? If so I know how fortunate I was to find the family records
                that I did.

                Many thanks for your time,
                Eugene Klodzen








                **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                products.
                (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • June McKee
                Thanks Eugene I think I am going to need all of the luck I can get with being in the Ukraine. Maybe someday that area will be able to be filmed or possibly I
                Message 7 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Thanks Eugene I think I am going to need all of the luck I can get with being in the Ukraine. Maybe someday that area will be able to be filmed or possibly I will be able to find someone that can do a search in there.

                  Good luck to you aswell,
                  June
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: gklodzen@...
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 1:45 PM
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano



                  Sorry, June. I did not make that very clear. Vinne is, fortunately, not in
                  Ukraine. I found my family records among those church records photographed by
                  LDS volunteers in the 1990s and available now to researchers from the Family
                  History Library.

                  On the other hand, the 1869 Hungarian Census for Vinne is not available, and
                  I'm not certain why, but I believe it might have something to do with
                  Ukraine. I was able to piece a part of my 19th century family's history together
                  from those church documents, but because of the missing 1869 Census not all of
                  it.

                  I gather that Klacsano is in that part of Ung county that was absorbed into
                  Ukraine.

                  Good luck with your research,
                  Eugene





                  In a message dated 12/3/2007 1:16:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                  junemckee@... writes:

                  Eugene,

                  just curious, where did you find your family records if they are indeed in
                  the Ukraine?

                  June
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: _gklodzen@..._ (mailto:gklodzen@...)
                  To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                  Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:06 PM
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano

                  An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand
                  correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne
                  (my
                  grandfather'grandfather'<WBR>s village, thus the question), including Klac
                  part of Ukraine? If so I know how fortunate I was to find the family records
                  that I did.

                  Many thanks for your time,
                  Eugene Klodzen

                  **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                  products.
                  (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • johnqadam
                  ... I m not certain why, but I believe it might have something to do with Ukraine.
                  Message 8 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    >>> the 1869 Hungarian Census for Vinne is not available, and
                    I'm not certain why, but I believe it might have something to do with
                    Ukraine. <<<

                    BINGO!!!!

                    The 1869 Ung Megye Hungarian Census is believed to be in Uzhorod
                    Archive, so far lost to genealogy research. However, there is always
                    hope!
                  • Janet Kozlay
                    For Eugene Klodzen, Vladimir s information looks very significant. The old ELTE map of Trencsen megye shows that Rajec(z) is right next to Klacsan, now Klace
                    Message 9 of 30 , Feb 5, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      For Eugene Klodzen, Vladimir's information looks very significant. The old
                      ELTE map of Trencsen megye shows that Rajec(z) is right next to Klacsan, now
                      Klace SK. Old Hungarian spellings also include Kleczen and Kalacsany. Roman
                      Catholic church records for Klacsan are with Rajec, which go back all the
                      way to 1674.



                      Despite the similarity in names, there would appear to be no relation
                      between the village of Klacsano near Munkacs and Klacsan in Trencsen.



                      Janet





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • gklodzen@aol.com
                      Janet, Margo, Vladimir, John and All, Many thanks for this recent information which may open yet another door into the family past, and which I would likely
                      Message 10 of 30 , Feb 6, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Janet, Margo, Vladimir, John and All,

                        Many thanks for this recent information which may open yet another door into
                        the family past, and which I would likely never have known had I not been a
                        member of this group of "generous with their knowledge" family history
                        researchers like yourselves. You can be sure that I will be ordering the relevant
                        microfilm from the Family History Center.

                        As someone said, 'Genealogy becomes rather addictive. No sooner do you find
                        one ancestor but you start looking for another even further back in time.' So
                        true. But even better then finding just that ancestor is the historical
                        perspective that unfolds during the search, the added knowledge of the time and
                        place in which the ancestor lived, thus some of which he or she may have
                        personally experienced. As one who never knew his grandparents, this research
                        odyssey has taught me much about them, ...and myself.

                        Many thanks for your help along the way,
                        Eugene Klodzen





                        In a message dated 2/5/2008 10:04:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                        kozlay@... writes:

                        For Eugene Klodzen, Vladimir's information looks very significant. The old
                        ELTE map of Trencsen megye shows that Rajec(z) is right next to Klacsan, now
                        Klace SK. Old Hungarian spellings also include Kleczen and Kalacsany. Roman
                        Catholic church records for Klacsan are with Rajec, which go back all the
                        way to 1674.

                        Despite the similarity in names, there would appear to be no relation
                        between the village of Klacsano near Munkacs and Klacsan in Trencsen.

                        Janet



                        <<Eugene, Vladimir will probably expand on this reply because he is the
                        expert. In the meantime, the Urbars are the old feudal tax records which list the
                        serf taxpayers. The records from 1770ish are available on microfilm from the
                        Family History Centers. In the list of microfilms, they are Urberi tabellak
                        1767-1773. The documents are in archaic Slovak and Latin.

                        Also, Richard Marsina and Michal Kusik wrote Urbare feudalnych pastiev na
                        Slovensku (1959). Vol. 1 deals with the 16th century and Vol. 2 with the 17th
                        century. I ordered this on interlibrary loan at my local public library. The
                        information presented varies from year to year.

                        Rajec near Zilina has a nice little restaurant. But it is also very near
                        Rajec Teplice, my favorite spa in all Slovakia. The old building is very ornate.
                        There is live music and dancing on summer evenings. And a small bar next to
                        the pool serves slivovce.>>

                        Margo




                        **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
                        (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
                        48)


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • gklodzen@aol.com
                        Janet, Vladimir and All, To add a little more information with regard to our recent discussion of villages Rajecz, Klacsan and Kladzan: In searching through
                        Message 11 of 30 , Feb 7, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Janet, Vladimir and All,

                          To add a little more information with regard to our recent discussion of
                          villages Rajecz, Klacsan and Kladzan:

                          In searching through the old Hungarian map, circa 1910:

                          _http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg_
                          (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg)

                          I've found the old village of Kladzan to be in Zemplin County at these
                          coordinates:

                          21 degrees, 45 minutes, & 48 degrees, 45 minutes (hope that's the right
                          terminology)

                          As village Kladzan was considerably closer to present day Vinne then was
                          village Klaczan (located in Trencen County) I'm speculating now that perhaps my
                          KLADZAN ancestors found in Vinne may have had their origins in village
                          Kladzan rather then the more distant village Klacsan. And, as the spelling of
                          both the ancestral surname and the village are identical, it seems a likely
                          possibility.

                          So, next up will be a search of records (church and others) covering years
                          prior to 1812, the year of the earliest KLADZAN found in Vinne. Any thoughts
                          or suggestions would, as always, be much appreciated.

                          Many thanks,
                          Eugene Klodzen (researching KLADZAN, PIKULA, HLADKY, LABADA)





                          **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
                          (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
                          48)


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.