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Re: finally got the immigration papers

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  • Paula
    I m still waiting to hear back from someone regarding my papers. The copies are so bad, I don t even know what they sent to me. I can make out the name
    Message 1 of 30 , Nov 29, 2007
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      I'm still waiting to hear back from someone regarding my papers. The
      copies are so bad, I don't even know what they sent to me. I can make
      out the name Weisskirchen (grandpa called it Fehertemplom) and the king
      of Hungary's name, that's it. I'll call them again tomorrow.



      Paula




      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "junemckee" <junemckee@...> wrote:
      >
      > Well after reading Paula's posting lastweek regarding her papers
      > coming back and not being able to read them it has just happened to
      > me aswell. after 18mos of waiting I recieved my grandmother Meri
      > Boldizar "Kolina" immigration papers. I got the declaration of
      > intention, petition for naturalaization and the certificate .Welll I
      > cant hardly read anything!!!!! I have been on pins and needles for
      > all these months and then what a disapointment. I gave them a call
      > and the person which I spoke with is going to see if they can get a
      > better copy for me. Of course of all the things that I really need is
      > to be able to read the village in which she came from and it is very
      > difficult. The lady helping me on the phone tried to read it to me
      > the best that she could and thinks that the village looks like it
      > could be spelled "Elocona" the E could be an "F". it says
      > Czechslovakia hungary. I have always been told that she was from
      > Munkacs. The EI manifest which I believe to be her says she came from
      > Klaczano. I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
      > old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby. Does anyone know who
      > would be familiar with this area? I checked the fuzzy Gazzetter and
      > several other sites but couldnt get anything. I also have played
      > around with scanning them and nothing works. so much of the print is
      > gone.
      >
      > thank you,
      > June
      >
    • fernbrough
      June: In the upper right hand corner of this map is Munkacs. http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-48.jpg You can see the town of Klacsano just NW
      Message 2 of 30 , Dec 2, 2007
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        June:

        In the upper right hand corner of this map is Munkacs.

        http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-48.jpg

        You can see the town of Klacsano just NW of Munkacs.

        Thanks!
      • gklodzen@aol.com
        Just curious, but does anyone know where the town of VinnaBanka is in relationship to Munkacs on this map? Also, is this a map of the old Ung county or of
        Message 3 of 30 , Dec 2, 2007
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          Just curious, but does anyone know where the town of VinnaBanka is in
          relationship to Munkacs on this map? Also, is this a map of the old Ung county or
          of another region?

          Many thanks,
          Eugene Klodzen

          In a message dated 12/2/2007 8:29:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
          rmom@... writes:

          June:

          In the upper right hand corner of this map is Munkacs.

          _http://lazarus.http://lazarhttp://lahttp://lazhttp://la_
          (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-48.jpg)

          You can see the town of Klacsano just NW of Munkacs.

          Thanks!







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        • johnqadam
          ... Vinné, Slovakia, formerly Vinna-Banka, Ung, Hungary, is located east of Michalovce on the north side of Zemplinska Sirava. Not near Munkacs on any map.
          Message 4 of 30 , Dec 2, 2007
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            >>> does anyone know where the town of VinnaBanka is <<<

            Vinné, Slovakia, formerly Vinna-Banka, Ung, Hungary, is located east of
            Michalovce on the north side of Zemplinska Sirava. Not near Munkacs on
            any map.
          • June McKee
            thank you for the map. I can diffently see Klacsano there. Being this villiage is so close to Munkacs that is probably why my grandmother always refered to
            Message 5 of 30 , Dec 2, 2007
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              thank you for the map. I can diffently see Klacsano there. Being this villiage is so close to Munkacs that is probably why my grandmother always refered to Munkacs.

              thanks
              June
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: fernbrough
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 5:28 AM
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano


              June:

              In the upper right hand corner of this map is Munkacs.

              http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-48.jpg

              You can see the town of Klacsano just NW of Munkacs.

              Thanks!





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • fernbrough
              Eugene: This map is part of the 3rd Military Mapping Survey for Austria-Hungary . They are dated in the lower right corner; the one for Munkacs was dated
              Message 6 of 30 , Dec 2, 2007
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                Eugene:

                This map is part of the "3rd Military Mapping Survey for
                Austria-Hungary". They are dated in the lower right corner; the one
                for Munkacs was dated 1889.

                http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm

                It's an interactive map just click on the city/area you are interested
                in researching.

                Munkacs was in Bereg County, just southeast of Ung county.

                http://www.talmamedia.com/map/hhcounty/images/megyek1/beugun.gif

                Your Vinna-Banka is shown as Vinna on this map. On the left side
                margin look for 49 degrees. Vinna is a little bit to the right, half
                way down the map.

                All of these maps are found on Bill T's web site.

                Good researching!

                Bob S.


                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, gklodzen@... wrote:
                >
                >
                > Just curious, but does anyone know where the town of VinnaBanka is in
                > relationship to Munkacs on this map? Also, is this a map of the old
                Ung county or
                > of another region?
                >
                > Many thanks,
                > Eugene Klodzen
                >
                > I
              • fernbrough
                The third reference map is the following, where Vinna is shown: http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-49.jpg Sorry! ... is in
                Message 7 of 30 , Dec 2, 2007
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                  The third reference map is the following, where Vinna is shown:

                  http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-49.jpg

                  Sorry!


                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "fernbrough" <rmom@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Eugene:
                  >
                  > This map is part of the "3rd Military Mapping Survey for
                  > Austria-Hungary". They are dated in the lower right corner; the one
                  > for Munkacs was dated 1889.
                  >
                  > http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm
                  >
                  > It's an interactive map just click on the city/area you are interested
                  > in researching.
                  >
                  > Munkacs was in Bereg County, just southeast of Ung county.
                  >
                  > http://www.talmamedia.com/map/hhcounty/images/megyek1/beugun.gif
                  >
                  > Your Vinna-Banka is shown as Vinna on this map. On the left side
                  > margin look for 49 degrees. Vinna is a little bit to the right, half
                  > way down the map.
                  >
                  > All of these maps are found on Bill T's web site.
                  >
                  > Good researching!
                  >
                  > Bob S.
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, gklodzen@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Just curious, but does anyone know where the town of VinnaBanka
                  is in
                  > > relationship to Munkacs on this map? Also, is this a map of the old
                  > Ung county or
                  > > of another region?
                  > >
                  > > Many thanks,
                  > > Eugene Klodzen
                  > >
                  > > I
                  >
                • gklodzen@aol.com
                  An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne (my
                  Message 8 of 30 , Dec 2, 2007
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                    An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand
                    correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne (my
                    grandfather's village, thus the question), including Klacsano, has become
                    part of Ukraine? If so I know how fortunate I was to find the family records
                    that I did.

                    Many thanks for your time,
                    Eugene Klodzen


                    In a message dated 12/2/2007 8:25:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                    rmom@... writes:

                    The third reference map is the following, where Vinna is shown:

                    _http://lazarus.http://lazarhttp://lahttp://lazhttp://la_
                    (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-49.jpg)

                    Sorry!

                    --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                    , "fernbrough" <rmom@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Eugene:
                    >
                    > This map is part of the "3rd Military Mapping Survey for
                    > Austria-Hungary" Austria-Hungary"<WBR>. They are dated in the lower
                    > for Munkacs was dated 1889.
                    >
                    > _http://lazarus.http://lazarhttp://lahttp://lazarus.htt_
                    (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm)
                    >
                    > It's an interactive map just click on the city/area you are interested
                    > in researching.
                    >
                    > Munkacs was in Bereg County, just southeast of Ung county.
                    >
                    > _http://www.talmamedhttp://www.http://wwhttp://www.talmhttp://www_
                    (http://www.talmamedia.com/map/hhcounty/images/megyek1/beugun.gif)
                    >
                    > Your Vinna-Banka is shown as Vinna on this map. On the left side
                    > margin look for 49 degrees. Vinna is a little bit to the right, half
                    > way down the map.
                    >
                    > All of these maps are found on Bill T's web site.
                    >
                    > Good researching!
                    >
                    > Bob S.
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                    , gklodzen@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Just curious, but does anyone know where the town of VinnaBanka
                    is in
                    > > relationship to Munkacs on this map? Also, is this a map of the old
                    > Ung county or
                    > > of another region?
                    > >
                    > > Many thanks,
                    > > Eugene Klodzen







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                  • Ron Matviyak
                    ... bit to the right, half way down the map. A word of caution with the old maps from Austria-Hungary. The latitude shown on the old maps is Ferro, not
                    Message 9 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
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                      > On the left side> > margin look for 49 degrees. Vinna is a little
                      bit to the right, half> > way down the map.

                      A word of caution with the old maps from Austria-Hungary. The
                      latitude shown on the old maps is Ferro, not Greenwich. Thus the
                      numbers are about 17° 40' So if you have some need for the modern
                      longitude, subtract 17° 40' from what the map says and you will be
                      very close to the modern Greenwich value.

                      Here is a bit of edited history taken from Wikipedia:

                      FERRO, Canary Islands, was known in Europe as the prime meridian in
                      common use outside of the future British Empire. In the 2nd century
                      A.D., Ptolemy considered a zero meridian based on the western-most
                      position of the known world, giving maps with only positive (eastern)
                      longitudes.

                      In 1634 France decided that Ferro's meridian should be used as the
                      reference on maps, since this island is the most western position of
                      the Old World and also thought to be exactly 20 degrees west of the
                      Paris meridian…

                      Old maps (outside of Anglo-America) often have a common grid with
                      Paris degrees at the top and Ferro degrees offset by 20 at the bottom.
                      Theodor Albrecht (ca. 1890) calculated the Ferro meridian as 17° 39'
                      46.02" west of the Greenwich meridian. The geodetic systems of
                      Hungary and Yugoslavia, used this value prior to the switch to the
                      Greenwich prime meridian.
                      But for the geodetic networks of Austria, Germany and Czechoslovakia,
                      the value 17° 40' 00" was adopted in the 1920s,
                    • June McKee
                      Eugene, just curious, where did you find your family records if they are indeed in the Ukraine? June ... From: gklodzen@aol.com To:
                      Message 10 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
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                        Eugene,

                        just curious, where did you find your family records if they are indeed in the Ukraine?

                        June
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: gklodzen@...
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:06 PM
                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano



                        An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand
                        correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne (my
                        grandfather's village, thus the question), including Klacsano, has become
                        part of Ukraine? If so I know how fortunate I was to find the family records
                        that I did.

                        Many thanks for your time,
                        Eugene Klodzen


                        In a message dated 12/2/2007 8:25:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                        rmom@... writes:

                        The third reference map is the following, where Vinna is shown:

                        _http://lazarus.http://lazarhttp://lahttp://lazhttp://la_
                        (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-49.jpg)

                        Sorry!

                        --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                        , "fernbrough" <rmom@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Eugene:
                        >
                        > This map is part of the "3rd Military Mapping Survey for
                        > Austria-Hungary" Austria-Hungary"<WBR>. They are dated in the lower
                        > for Munkacs was dated 1889.
                        >
                        > _http://lazarus.http://lazarhttp://lahttp://lazarus.htt_
                        (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm)
                        >
                        > It's an interactive map just click on the city/area you are interested
                        > in researching.
                        >
                        > Munkacs was in Bereg County, just southeast of Ung county.
                        >
                        > _http://www.talmamedhttp://www.http://wwhttp://www.talmhttp://www_
                        (http://www.talmamedia.com/map/hhcounty/images/megyek1/beugun.gif)
                        >
                        > Your Vinna-Banka is shown as Vinna on this map. On the left side
                        > margin look for 49 degrees. Vinna is a little bit to the right, half
                        > way down the map.
                        >
                        > All of these maps are found on Bill T's web site.
                        >
                        > Good researching!
                        >
                        > Bob S.
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                        , gklodzen@ wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Just curious, but does anyone know where the town of VinnaBanka
                        is in
                        > > relationship to Munkacs on this map? Also, is this a map of the old
                        > Ung county or
                        > > of another region?
                        > >
                        > > Many thanks,
                        > > Eugene Klodzen

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                      • gklodzen@aol.com
                        Sorry, June. I did not make that very clear. Vinne is, fortunately, not in Ukraine. I found my family records among those church records photographed by LDS
                        Message 11 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
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                          Sorry, June. I did not make that very clear. Vinne is, fortunately, not in
                          Ukraine. I found my family records among those church records photographed by
                          LDS volunteers in the 1990s and available now to researchers from the Family
                          History Library.

                          On the other hand, the 1869 Hungarian Census for Vinne is not available, and
                          I'm not certain why, but I believe it might have something to do with
                          Ukraine. I was able to piece a part of my 19th century family's history together
                          from those church documents, but because of the missing 1869 Census not all of
                          it.

                          I gather that Klacsano is in that part of Ung county that was absorbed into
                          Ukraine.

                          Good luck with your research,
                          Eugene





                          In a message dated 12/3/2007 1:16:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                          junemckee@... writes:

                          Eugene,

                          just curious, where did you find your family records if they are indeed in
                          the Ukraine?

                          June
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: _gklodzen@..._ (mailto:gklodzen@...)
                          To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                          Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:06 PM
                          Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano

                          An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand
                          correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne
                          (my
                          grandfather'grandfather'<WBR>s village, thus the question), including Klac
                          part of Ukraine? If so I know how fortunate I was to find the family records
                          that I did.

                          Many thanks for your time,
                          Eugene Klodzen








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                          products.
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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • June McKee
                          Thanks Eugene I think I am going to need all of the luck I can get with being in the Ukraine. Maybe someday that area will be able to be filmed or possibly I
                          Message 12 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
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                            Thanks Eugene I think I am going to need all of the luck I can get with being in the Ukraine. Maybe someday that area will be able to be filmed or possibly I will be able to find someone that can do a search in there.

                            Good luck to you aswell,
                            June
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: gklodzen@...
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 1:45 PM
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano



                            Sorry, June. I did not make that very clear. Vinne is, fortunately, not in
                            Ukraine. I found my family records among those church records photographed by
                            LDS volunteers in the 1990s and available now to researchers from the Family
                            History Library.

                            On the other hand, the 1869 Hungarian Census for Vinne is not available, and
                            I'm not certain why, but I believe it might have something to do with
                            Ukraine. I was able to piece a part of my 19th century family's history together
                            from those church documents, but because of the missing 1869 Census not all of
                            it.

                            I gather that Klacsano is in that part of Ung county that was absorbed into
                            Ukraine.

                            Good luck with your research,
                            Eugene





                            In a message dated 12/3/2007 1:16:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                            junemckee@... writes:

                            Eugene,

                            just curious, where did you find your family records if they are indeed in
                            the Ukraine?

                            June
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: _gklodzen@..._ (mailto:gklodzen@...)
                            To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                            Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:06 PM
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano

                            An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand
                            correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne
                            (my
                            grandfather'grandfather'<WBR>s village, thus the question), including Klac
                            part of Ukraine? If so I know how fortunate I was to find the family records
                            that I did.

                            Many thanks for your time,
                            Eugene Klodzen

                            **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                            products.
                            (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • johnqadam
                            ... I m not certain why, but I believe it might have something to do with Ukraine.
                            Message 13 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
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                              >>> the 1869 Hungarian Census for Vinne is not available, and
                              I'm not certain why, but I believe it might have something to do with
                              Ukraine. <<<

                              BINGO!!!!

                              The 1869 Ung Megye Hungarian Census is believed to be in Uzhorod
                              Archive, so far lost to genealogy research. However, there is always
                              hope!
                            • Janet Kozlay
                              For Eugene Klodzen, Vladimir s information looks very significant. The old ELTE map of Trencsen megye shows that Rajec(z) is right next to Klacsan, now Klace
                              Message 14 of 30 , Feb 5, 2008
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                                For Eugene Klodzen, Vladimir's information looks very significant. The old
                                ELTE map of Trencsen megye shows that Rajec(z) is right next to Klacsan, now
                                Klace SK. Old Hungarian spellings also include Kleczen and Kalacsany. Roman
                                Catholic church records for Klacsan are with Rajec, which go back all the
                                way to 1674.



                                Despite the similarity in names, there would appear to be no relation
                                between the village of Klacsano near Munkacs and Klacsan in Trencsen.



                                Janet





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • gklodzen@aol.com
                                Janet, Margo, Vladimir, John and All, Many thanks for this recent information which may open yet another door into the family past, and which I would likely
                                Message 15 of 30 , Feb 6, 2008
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                                  Janet, Margo, Vladimir, John and All,

                                  Many thanks for this recent information which may open yet another door into
                                  the family past, and which I would likely never have known had I not been a
                                  member of this group of "generous with their knowledge" family history
                                  researchers like yourselves. You can be sure that I will be ordering the relevant
                                  microfilm from the Family History Center.

                                  As someone said, 'Genealogy becomes rather addictive. No sooner do you find
                                  one ancestor but you start looking for another even further back in time.' So
                                  true. But even better then finding just that ancestor is the historical
                                  perspective that unfolds during the search, the added knowledge of the time and
                                  place in which the ancestor lived, thus some of which he or she may have
                                  personally experienced. As one who never knew his grandparents, this research
                                  odyssey has taught me much about them, ...and myself.

                                  Many thanks for your help along the way,
                                  Eugene Klodzen





                                  In a message dated 2/5/2008 10:04:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                                  kozlay@... writes:

                                  For Eugene Klodzen, Vladimir's information looks very significant. The old
                                  ELTE map of Trencsen megye shows that Rajec(z) is right next to Klacsan, now
                                  Klace SK. Old Hungarian spellings also include Kleczen and Kalacsany. Roman
                                  Catholic church records for Klacsan are with Rajec, which go back all the
                                  way to 1674.

                                  Despite the similarity in names, there would appear to be no relation
                                  between the village of Klacsano near Munkacs and Klacsan in Trencsen.

                                  Janet



                                  <<Eugene, Vladimir will probably expand on this reply because he is the
                                  expert. In the meantime, the Urbars are the old feudal tax records which list the
                                  serf taxpayers. The records from 1770ish are available on microfilm from the
                                  Family History Centers. In the list of microfilms, they are Urberi tabellak
                                  1767-1773. The documents are in archaic Slovak and Latin.

                                  Also, Richard Marsina and Michal Kusik wrote Urbare feudalnych pastiev na
                                  Slovensku (1959). Vol. 1 deals with the 16th century and Vol. 2 with the 17th
                                  century. I ordered this on interlibrary loan at my local public library. The
                                  information presented varies from year to year.

                                  Rajec near Zilina has a nice little restaurant. But it is also very near
                                  Rajec Teplice, my favorite spa in all Slovakia. The old building is very ornate.
                                  There is live music and dancing on summer evenings. And a small bar next to
                                  the pool serves slivovce.>>

                                  Margo




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                                • gklodzen@aol.com
                                  Janet, Vladimir and All, To add a little more information with regard to our recent discussion of villages Rajecz, Klacsan and Kladzan: In searching through
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Feb 7, 2008
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                                    Janet, Vladimir and All,

                                    To add a little more information with regard to our recent discussion of
                                    villages Rajecz, Klacsan and Kladzan:

                                    In searching through the old Hungarian map, circa 1910:

                                    _http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg_
                                    (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg)

                                    I've found the old village of Kladzan to be in Zemplin County at these
                                    coordinates:

                                    21 degrees, 45 minutes, & 48 degrees, 45 minutes (hope that's the right
                                    terminology)

                                    As village Kladzan was considerably closer to present day Vinne then was
                                    village Klaczan (located in Trencen County) I'm speculating now that perhaps my
                                    KLADZAN ancestors found in Vinne may have had their origins in village
                                    Kladzan rather then the more distant village Klacsan. And, as the spelling of
                                    both the ancestral surname and the village are identical, it seems a likely
                                    possibility.

                                    So, next up will be a search of records (church and others) covering years
                                    prior to 1812, the year of the earliest KLADZAN found in Vinne. Any thoughts
                                    or suggestions would, as always, be much appreciated.

                                    Many thanks,
                                    Eugene Klodzen (researching KLADZAN, PIKULA, HLADKY, LABADA)





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