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Re: [S-R] Portage vs Windber - Windber Churches

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  • J.
    Regarding Saints Peter & Paul Church in Winder, Pa... If you ask them, they will tell you they are Russian. The Carpathian Mountains cover a LOT of
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 29, 2007
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      Regarding Saints Peter & Paul Church in Winder, Pa...

      " If you ask them, they will tell you they are Russian."

      "The Carpathian Mountains cover a LOT of territory in the old Austro-Hungarian Empire.
      Do these people have a name?"

      "Lots of Rusyns "went back to the religion of their ancestors" due to pressure from Russian
      Orthodox, which was a tool of the Russian Empire to spread it's influence."


      RESPONSES TO ABOVE....
      Sts. P & P Church is part of the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese of America.
      So, I am just guessing that they identify most with the immigrants from the Eastern
      Slovakian Carpathian Mtn region, since that is the area from which many members of
      ACROD originated. (Many, perhaps not all.)

      As far as coming under pressure/influence of the Russian Orthodox Church & Russian
      Empire, ACROD joined itself directly to the Ecumencial Patriarchate of Constantinople -
      returning to their original spiritual teachings, as given to all the Slavs by Sts. Cyril &
      Methodius.

      Now, just hazarding another guess: If the aforementioned political/religious Russians
      were pulling strings on this particular group of immigrants inside America...why didn't
      these same immigrants band together & join with the Patriarchate of Moscow, for
      example? Instead, they were motivated to join with Constantinople. Also, I think that the
      time frame in which ACROD was formed was well after the end of the Czarist Russian
      Empire. So, was there really such a "Russian" influence on this group? I'm guessing that, in
      this case, there was not.

      ------------------------------------------------


      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
      > On Behalf Of vchromoho
      >
      The Carpathian Mountains cover a LOT of territory in the old Austro-Hungarian Empire.
      Do these people have a name?


      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Paulochik" <paulpaulochik@...> wrote:
      >
      > If you ask them, they will tell you they are Russian.

      ========================================


      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Paulochik" <paulpaulochik@...> wrote:
      >
      > If you ask them, they will tell you they are Russian.

      They broke away
      > from St Mary's Rusyn Greek Catholic Church over arguments of ethnic
      > identity and religious practice. Lots of Rusyns "went back to the
      > religion of their ancestors" due to pressure from Russian Orthodox,
      > which was a tool of the Russian Empire to spread it's influence.
      >
      -----------------------------------------------
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
      > On Behalf Of vchromoho
      > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:41 PM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Portage vs Windber -
      >
      > The Carpathian Mountains cover a LOT of territory in the old
      > Austro-Hungarian Empire.
      >
      > Do these people have a name?
      >
      ------------------------------------------------

      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > yahoogroups.com, "J." <cousinjanie1004@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Another Church in Windber, Pa is a possible research resource.
      > >
      > > The original parishioners of this church come from the Carpathians
      >Mountains of the old Austro-Hungarian Empire. They came to work in the coal mines &
      steel mills in the area.
      > >
      > > Saints Peter & Paul
      > > 141 Hoffman Farm Road
      > > Windber, PA 15963
      > >
    • Paul Paulochik
      All I know is that the ones I went to school with (and their families) said they were Russian. Residents of Windber and the rest of the area refer to it as
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 30, 2007
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        All I know is that the ones I went to school with (and their families)
        said they were Russian. Residents of Windber and the rest of the area
        refer to it as "the Russian church".

        The Russian agitation to turn Greek Catholics to Orthodoxy began early-
        to mid-19th century. While there certainly were religious implications,
        it was encouraged by the Czar as a means to weaken the influence of the
        Austro-Hungarian empire in the Slavic lands. Think of it, not in
        religious terms, but as one more front in the Pan-Slavic campaign to
        gather all Slavs under Russian domination going on at the time, and it
        makes more sense. The fact that in America, well away from the Slavic
        lands, they joined with Constantinople instead of Moscow is irrelevant
        to the original Russian (government) aims, and would have been a
        'temporary miscalculation' to the Russian (religious) aims.

        That's the problem with this whole issue - you need to know lots of
        history from lots of sources to get an idea of what's going on. For all
        I know, I'm misunderstanding my sources, but it sure makes sense when
        you think of it this way!




        -----Original Message-----
        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
        On Behalf Of J.
        Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 11:05 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Portage vs Windber - Windber Churches



        Regarding Saints Peter & Paul Church in Winder, Pa...

        " If you ask them, they will tell you they are Russian."

        "The Carpathian Mountains cover a LOT of territory in the old
        Austro-Hungarian Empire.
        Do these people have a name?"

        "Lots of Rusyns "went back to the religion of their ancestors" due to
        pressure from Russian
        Orthodox, which was a tool of the Russian Empire to spread it's
        influence."

        RESPONSES TO ABOVE....
        Sts. P & P Church is part of the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox
        Diocese of America.
        So, I am just guessing that they identify most with the immigrants from
        the Eastern
        Slovakian Carpathian Mtn region, since that is the area from which many
        members of
        ACROD originated. (Many, perhaps not all.)

        As far as coming under pressure/influence of the Russian Orthodox Church
        & Russian
        Empire, ACROD joined itself directly to the Ecumencial Patriarchate of
        Constantinople -
        returning to their original spiritual teachings, as given to all the
        Slavs by Sts. Cyril &
        Methodius.

        Now, just hazarding another guess: If the aforementioned
        political/religious Russians
        were pulling strings on this particular group of immigrants inside
        America...why didn't
        these same immigrants band together & join with the Patriarchate of
        Moscow, for
        example? Instead, they were motivated to join with Constantinople. Also,
        I think that the
        time frame in which ACROD was formed was well after the end of the
        Czarist Russian
        Empire. So, was there really such a "Russian" influence on this group?
        I'm guessing that, in
        this case, there was not.

        ------------------------------------------------

        > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
        yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@
        <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]
        > On Behalf Of vchromoho
        >
        The Carpathian Mountains cover a LOT of territory in the old
        Austro-Hungarian Empire.
        Do these people have a name?

        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
        yahoogroups.com, "Paul Paulochik" <paulpaulochik@...> wrote:
        >
        > If you ask them, they will tell you they are Russian.

        ========================================

        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
        yahoogroups.com, "Paul Paulochik" <paulpaulochik@...> wrote:
        >
        > If you ask them, they will tell you they are Russian.

        They broke away
        > from St Mary's Rusyn Greek Catholic Church over arguments of ethnic
        > identity and religious practice. Lots of Rusyns "went back to the
        > religion of their ancestors" due to pressure from Russian Orthodox,
        > which was a tool of the Russian Empire to spread it's influence.
        >
        -----------------------------------------------
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
        yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@
        <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]
        > On Behalf Of vchromoho
        > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:41 PM
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
        yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Portage vs Windber -
        >
        > The Carpathian Mountains cover a LOT of territory in the old
        > Austro-Hungarian Empire.
        >
        > Do these people have a name?
        >
        ------------------------------------------------

        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
        > yahoogroups.com, "J." <cousinjanie1004@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Another Church in Windber, Pa is a possible research resource.
        > >
        > > The original parishioners of this church come from the Carpathians
        >Mountains of the old Austro-Hungarian Empire. They came to work in the
        coal mines &
        steel mills in the area.
        > >
        > > Saints Peter & Paul
        > > 141 Hoffman Farm Road
        > > Windber, PA 15963
        > >







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • pstagen
        Could you post the given and surnames of some of the Windber people who said they were Russian or the surnames of those Windberites whose parents came from
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 30, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Could you post the given and surnames of some of the Windber people
          who said they were "Russian" or the surnames of those Windberites
          whose parents came from Europe? It may help to establish the area of
          the Carpathians they came from. An in-law of mine swore she was
          Russian but, upon digging, we found her roots lay in Ruske, A-H, and
          her ethnic roots were Rusyn. It was her father who pronounced "Ruske"
          and "Russian" similarly.


          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Paulochik"
          <paulpaulochik@...> wrote:
          >
          > All I know is that the ones I went to school with (and their
          families)
          > said they were Russian. Residents of Windber and the rest of the
          area
          > refer to it as "the Russian church".
          >
          > The Russian agitation to turn Greek Catholics to Orthodoxy began
          early-
          > to mid-19th century. While there certainly were religious
          implications,
          > it was encouraged by the Czar as a means to weaken the influence of
          the
          > Austro-Hungarian empire in the Slavic lands. Think of it, not in
          > religious terms, but as one more front in the Pan-Slavic campaign to
          > gather all Slavs under Russian domination going on at the time, and
          it
          > makes more sense. The fact that in America, well away from the
          Slavic
          > lands, they joined with Constantinople instead of Moscow is
          irrelevant
          > to the original Russian (government) aims, and would have been a
          > 'temporary miscalculation' to the Russian (religious) aims.
          >
          > That's the problem with this whole issue - you need to know lots of
          > history from lots of sources to get an idea of what's going on. For
          all
          > I know, I'm misunderstanding my sources, but it sure makes sense
          when
          > you think of it this way!
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
          ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
          > On Behalf Of J.
          > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 11:05 AM
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [S-R] Portage vs Windber - Windber Churches
          >
          >
          >
          > Regarding Saints Peter & Paul Church in Winder, Pa...
          >
          > " If you ask them, they will tell you they are Russian."
          >
          > "The Carpathian Mountains cover a LOT of territory in the old
          > Austro-Hungarian Empire.
          > Do these people have a name?"
          >
          > "Lots of Rusyns "went back to the religion of their ancestors" due
          to
          > pressure from Russian
          > Orthodox, which was a tool of the Russian Empire to spread it's
          > influence."
          >
          > RESPONSES TO ABOVE....
          > Sts. P & P Church is part of the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox
          > Diocese of America.
          > So, I am just guessing that they identify most with the immigrants
          from
          > the Eastern
          > Slovakian Carpathian Mtn region, since that is the area from which
          many
          > members of
          > ACROD originated. (Many, perhaps not all.)
          >
          > As far as coming under pressure/influence of the Russian Orthodox
          Church
          > & Russian
          > Empire, ACROD joined itself directly to the Ecumencial Patriarchate
          of
          > Constantinople -
          > returning to their original spiritual teachings, as given to all the
          > Slavs by Sts. Cyril &
          > Methodius.
          >
          > Now, just hazarding another guess: If the aforementioned
          > political/religious Russians
          > were pulling strings on this particular group of immigrants inside
          > America...why didn't
          > these same immigrants band together & join with the Patriarchate of
          > Moscow, for
          > example? Instead, they were motivated to join with Constantinople.
          Also,
          > I think that the
          > time frame in which ACROD was formed was well after the end of the
          > Czarist Russian
          > Empire. So, was there really such a "Russian" influence on this
          group?
          > I'm guessing that, in
          > this case, there was not.
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------
          >
          > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          > yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@
          > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]
          > > On Behalf Of vchromoho
          > >
          > The Carpathian Mountains cover a LOT of territory in the old
          > Austro-Hungarian Empire.
          > Do these people have a name?
          >
          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          > yahoogroups.com, "Paul Paulochik" <paulpaulochik@> wrote:
          > >
          > > If you ask them, they will tell you they are Russian.
          >
          > ========================================
          >
          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          > yahoogroups.com, "Paul Paulochik" <paulpaulochik@> wrote:
          > >
          > > If you ask them, they will tell you they are Russian.
          >
          > They broke away
          > > from St Mary's Rusyn Greek Catholic Church over arguments of
          ethnic
          > > identity and religious practice. Lots of Rusyns "went back to the
          > > religion of their ancestors" due to pressure from Russian
          Orthodox,
          > > which was a tool of the Russian Empire to spread it's influence.
          > >
          > -----------------------------------------------
          > >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          > yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@
          > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]
          > > On Behalf Of vchromoho
          > > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:41 PM
          > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          > yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Portage vs Windber -
          > >
          > > The Carpathian Mountains cover a LOT of territory in the old
          > > Austro-Hungarian Empire.
          > >
          > > Do these people have a name?
          > >
          > ------------------------------------------------
          >
          > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          > > yahoogroups.com, "J." <cousinjanie1004@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Another Church in Windber, Pa is a possible research resource.
          > > >
          > > > The original parishioners of this church come from the
          Carpathians
          > >Mountains of the old Austro-Hungarian Empire. They came to work in
          the
          > coal mines &
          > steel mills in the area.
          > > >
          > > > Saints Peter & Paul
          > > > 141 Hoffman Farm Road
          > > > Windber, PA 15963
          > > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
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