Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

finally got the immigration papers

Expand Messages
  • junemckee
    Well after reading Paula s posting lastweek regarding her papers coming back and not being able to read them it has just happened to me aswell. after 18mos of
    Message 1 of 30 , Nov 25, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Well after reading Paula's posting lastweek regarding her papers
      coming back and not being able to read them it has just happened to
      me aswell. after 18mos of waiting I recieved my grandmother Meri
      Boldizar "Kolina" immigration papers. I got the declaration of
      intention, petition for naturalaization and the certificate .Welll I
      cant hardly read anything!!!!! I have been on pins and needles for
      all these months and then what a disapointment. I gave them a call
      and the person which I spoke with is going to see if they can get a
      better copy for me. Of course of all the things that I really need is
      to be able to read the village in which she came from and it is very
      difficult. The lady helping me on the phone tried to read it to me
      the best that she could and thinks that the village looks like it
      could be spelled "Elocona" the E could be an "F". it says
      Czechslovakia hungary. I have always been told that she was from
      Munkacs. The EI manifest which I believe to be her says she came from
      Klaczano. I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
      old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby. Does anyone know who
      would be familiar with this area? I checked the fuzzy Gazzetter and
      several other sites but couldnt get anything. I also have played
      around with scanning them and nothing works. so much of the print is
      gone.

      thank you,
      June
    • johnqadam
      ... an F .
      Message 2 of 30 , Nov 25, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        >>> the village looks like it could be spelled "Elocona" the E could be
        an "F". <<<

        Go to the 1828 list of villages on Bill T's web site and do a word
        search (Control F) using the letters "loc" and you will come up with a
        num,ber of possibilities.
        http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/kingdom_of_hungary.htm

        Good luck.
      • Janet Kozlay
        Klacsano was a village just northwest of Munkacs. See map at http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/bereg.jpg. I haven t been able to identify it on a modern map
        Message 3 of 30 , Nov 25, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Klacsano was a village just northwest of Munkacs. See map at
          http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/bereg.jpg.



          I haven't been able to identify it on a modern map of Ukraine. It might be
          Suche, or it might have simply disappeared.



          Janet



          _____

          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of junemckee
          Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 10:33 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [S-R] finally got the immigration papers



          Well after reading Paula's posting lastweek regarding her papers
          coming back and not being able to read them it has just happened to
          me aswell. after 18mos of waiting I recieved my grandmother Meri
          Boldizar "Kolina" immigration papers. I got the declaration of
          intention, petition for naturalaization and the certificate .Welll I
          cant hardly read anything!!!!! I have been on pins and needles for
          all these months and then what a disapointment. I gave them a call
          and the person which I spoke with is going to see if they can get a
          better copy for me. Of course of all the things that I really need is
          to be able to read the village in which she came from and it is very
          difficult. The lady helping me on the phone tried to read it to me
          the best that she could and thinks that the village looks like it
          could be spelled "Elocona" the E could be an "F". it says
          Czechslovakia hungary. I have always been told that she was from
          Munkacs. The EI manifest which I believe to be her says she came from
          Klaczano. I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
          old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby. Does anyone know who
          would be familiar with this area? I checked the fuzzy Gazzetter and
          several other sites but couldnt get anything. I also have played
          around with scanning them and nothing works. so much of the print is
          gone.

          thank you,
          June





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bill Tarkulich
          I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an ... - Yes, it is nearby to Munkacs as Janet indicates. Depending on the translation, it could be
          Message 4 of 30 , Nov 26, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
            > old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby.
            - Yes, it is nearby to Munkacs as Janet indicates.

            Depending on the translation, it could be rendered as KLJACSANOVO,
            KLACSNOWA(SLOVAK), KLJACSANOVE (UKRAINE), OR KLJACSANOVO.
            I found it on Mapquest, rendered as KLIACHANOVE:
            http://tinyurl.com/2ho6wk

            Another contemporary map, more detailed, is here: http://tinyurl.com/34cgw2
            It's clearly visible on highway M17 just Northwest of Munkacs.

            Based on June's rendering, Elocona very likely could be Klacsano based on
            cursive errors alone. I would like to see a copy, I know you've tried.
            Latin vowels are often misinterpreted. KLACZANO would have been the
            Magyar spelling at some point.

            What June has said all makes sense - It would have been in Czechoslovakia,
            1st republic from 1918 until 1939, in Hungary prior to that period.

            Bill
            On Sun, November 25, 2007 11:26 pm, Janet Kozlay wrote:
            > Klacsano was a village just northwest of Munkacs. See map at
            > http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/bereg.jpg.
            >
            >
            >
            > I haven't been able to identify it on a modern map of Ukraine. It might be
            > Suche, or it might have simply disappeared.
            >
            >
            >
            > Janet
            >
            >
            >
            > _____
            >
            > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
            > On
            > Behalf Of junemckee
            > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 10:33 PM
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [S-R] finally got the immigration papers
            >
            >
            >
            > Well after reading Paula's posting lastweek regarding her papers
            > coming back and not being able to read them it has just happened to
            > me aswell. after 18mos of waiting I recieved my grandmother Meri
            > Boldizar "Kolina" immigration papers. I got the declaration of
            > intention, petition for naturalaization and the certificate .Welll I
            > cant hardly read anything!!!!! I have been on pins and needles for
            > all these months and then what a disapointment. I gave them a call
            > and the person which I spoke with is going to see if they can get a
            > better copy for me. Of course of all the things that I really need is
            > to be able to read the village in which she came from and it is very
            > difficult. The lady helping me on the phone tried to read it to me
            > the best that she could and thinks that the village looks like it
            > could be spelled "Elocona" the E could be an "F". it says
            > Czechslovakia hungary. I have always been told that she was from
            > Munkacs. The EI manifest which I believe to be her says she came from
            > Klaczano. I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
            > old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby. Does anyone know who
            > would be familiar with this area? I checked the fuzzy Gazzetter and
            > several other sites but couldnt get anything. I also have played
            > around with scanning them and nothing works. so much of the print is
            > gone.
            >
            > thank you,
            > June
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
            > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >


            --
            Bill Tarkulich
            http://www.iabsi.com
          • Bill Tarkulich
            By the way, in 1910: population 1099, 62 Magyar, 211 German, 825 Ruthenian. 189 roman catholic, 681 greek catholic and 214 Jews. Was your family Greek
            Message 5 of 30 , Nov 26, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              By the way, in 1910: population 1099, 62 Magyar, 211 German, 825
              Ruthenian. 189 roman catholic, 681 greek catholic and 214 Jews.
              Was your family Greek catholic?
              Regards,
              Bill

              On Mon, November 26, 2007 3:07 am, Bill Tarkulich wrote:
              > I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
              >> old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby.
              > - Yes, it is nearby to Munkacs as Janet indicates.
              >
              > Depending on the translation, it could be rendered as KLJACSANOVO,
              > KLACSNOWA(SLOVAK), KLJACSANOVE (UKRAINE), OR KLJACSANOVO.
              > I found it on Mapquest, rendered as KLIACHANOVE:
              > http://tinyurl.com/2ho6wk
              >
              > Another contemporary map, more detailed, is here:
              > http://tinyurl.com/34cgw2
              > It's clearly visible on highway M17 just Northwest of Munkacs.
              >
              > Based on June's rendering, Elocona very likely could be Klacsano based on
              > cursive errors alone. I would like to see a copy, I know you've tried.
              > Latin vowels are often misinterpreted. KLACZANO would have been the
              > Magyar spelling at some point.
              >
              > What June has said all makes sense - It would have been in Czechoslovakia,
              > 1st republic from 1918 until 1939, in Hungary prior to that period.
              >
              > Bill
              > On Sun, November 25, 2007 11:26 pm, Janet Kozlay wrote:
              >> Klacsano was a village just northwest of Munkacs. See map at
              >> http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/bereg.jpg.
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> I haven't been able to identify it on a modern map of Ukraine. It might
              >> be
              >> Suche, or it might have simply disappeared.
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> Janet
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> _____
              >>
              >> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
              >> On
              >> Behalf Of junemckee
              >> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 10:33 PM
              >> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              >> Subject: [S-R] finally got the immigration papers
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> Well after reading Paula's posting lastweek regarding her papers
              >> coming back and not being able to read them it has just happened to
              >> me aswell. after 18mos of waiting I recieved my grandmother Meri
              >> Boldizar "Kolina" immigration papers. I got the declaration of
              >> intention, petition for naturalaization and the certificate .Welll I
              >> cant hardly read anything!!!!! I have been on pins and needles for
              >> all these months and then what a disapointment. I gave them a call
              >> and the person which I spoke with is going to see if they can get a
              >> better copy for me. Of course of all the things that I really need is
              >> to be able to read the village in which she came from and it is very
              >> difficult. The lady helping me on the phone tried to read it to me
              >> the best that she could and thinks that the village looks like it
              >> could be spelled "Elocona" the E could be an "F". it says
              >> Czechslovakia hungary. I have always been told that she was from
              >> Munkacs. The EI manifest which I believe to be her says she came from
              >> Klaczano. I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
              >> old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby. Does anyone know who
              >> would be familiar with this area? I checked the fuzzy Gazzetter and
              >> several other sites but couldnt get anything. I also have played
              >> around with scanning them and nothing works. so much of the print is
              >> gone.
              >>
              >> thank you,
              >> June
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
              >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
              >>
              >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
              >> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              > --
              > Bill Tarkulich
              > http://www.iabsi.com
              >
              >
              >
              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
              > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >


              --
              Bill Tarkulich
              http://www.iabsi.com
            • Bill Tarkulich
              June, I have a book with a 1997 photo and brief history of the church in this village. The current building was constructed in 1820, the parish formed in
              Message 6 of 30 , Nov 26, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                June,

                I have a book with a 1997 photo and brief history of the church in this
                village. The current building was constructed in 1820, the parish formed
                in 1733. If you are interested, drop me a (private) note and I would be
                happy to scan and email it to you. It's written in Ukrainian, I will
                leave it to you to be translated.
                Bill

                On Mon, November 26, 2007 3:07 am, Bill Tarkulich wrote:
                > I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
                >> old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby.
                > - Yes, it is nearby to Munkacs as Janet indicates.
                >
                > Depending on the translation, it could be rendered as KLJACSANOVO,
                > KLACSNOWA(SLOVAK), KLJACSANOVE (UKRAINE), OR KLJACSANOVO.
                > I found it on Mapquest, rendered as KLIACHANOVE:
                > http://tinyurl.com/2ho6wk
                >
                > Another contemporary map, more detailed, is here:
                > http://tinyurl.com/34cgw2
                > It's clearly visible on highway M17 just Northwest of Munkacs.
                >
                > Based on June's rendering, Elocona very likely could be Klacsano based on
                > cursive errors alone. I would like to see a copy, I know you've tried.
                > Latin vowels are often misinterpreted. KLACZANO would have been the
                > Magyar spelling at some point.
                >
                > What June has said all makes sense - It would have been in Czechoslovakia,
                > 1st republic from 1918 until 1939, in Hungary prior to that period.
                >
                > Bill
                > On Sun, November 25, 2007 11:26 pm, Janet Kozlay wrote:
                >> Klacsano was a village just northwest of Munkacs. See map at
                >> http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/bereg.jpg.
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> I haven't been able to identify it on a modern map of Ukraine. It might
                >> be
                >> Suche, or it might have simply disappeared.
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> Janet
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> _____
                >>
                >> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                >> On
                >> Behalf Of junemckee
                >> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 10:33 PM
                >> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                >> Subject: [S-R] finally got the immigration papers
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> Well after reading Paula's posting lastweek regarding her papers
                >> coming back and not being able to read them it has just happened to
                >> me aswell. after 18mos of waiting I recieved my grandmother Meri
                >> Boldizar "Kolina" immigration papers. I got the declaration of
                >> intention, petition for naturalaization and the certificate .Welll I
                >> cant hardly read anything!!!!! I have been on pins and needles for
                >> all these months and then what a disapointment. I gave them a call
                >> and the person which I spoke with is going to see if they can get a
                >> better copy for me. Of course of all the things that I really need is
                >> to be able to read the village in which she came from and it is very
                >> difficult. The lady helping me on the phone tried to read it to me
                >> the best that she could and thinks that the village looks like it
                >> could be spelled "Elocona" the E could be an "F". it says
                >> Czechslovakia hungary. I have always been told that she was from
                >> Munkacs. The EI manifest which I believe to be her says she came from
                >> Klaczano. I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
                >> old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby. Does anyone know who
                >> would be familiar with this area? I checked the fuzzy Gazzetter and
                >> several other sites but couldnt get anything. I also have played
                >> around with scanning them and nothing works. so much of the print is
                >> gone.
                >>
                >> thank you,
                >> June
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                >>
                >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                >> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                > --
                > Bill Tarkulich
                > http://www.iabsi.com
                >
                >
                >
                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >


                --
                Bill Tarkulich
                http://www.iabsi.com
              • Janet Kozlay
                Bill, No wonder I couldn t locate it on a modern map. I was mistakenly focusing on Michalovce instead of Mukaceve. I don t believe the Hungarian spelling of
                Message 7 of 30 , Nov 26, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Bill,



                  No wonder I couldn't locate it on a modern map. I was mistakenly focusing on
                  Michalovce instead of Mukaceve.



                  I don't believe the Hungarian spelling of Klacsano was ever Klaczano. That
                  would have been pronounced Kla-tsan-o instead of Kla-chan-o.



                  Janet







                  _____

                  From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Bill Tarkulich
                  Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 3:28 AM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano - photo of church



                  June,

                  I have a book with a 1997 photo and brief history of the church in this
                  village. The current building was constructed in 1820, the parish formed
                  in 1733. If you are interested, drop me a (private) note and I would be
                  happy to scan and email it to you. It's written in Ukrainian, I will
                  leave it to you to be translated.
                  Bill

                  On Mon, November 26, 2007 3:07 am, Bill Tarkulich wrote:
                  > I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
                  >> old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby.
                  > - Yes, it is nearby to Munkacs as Janet indicates.
                  >
                  > Depending on the translation, it could be rendered as KLJACSANOVO,
                  > KLACSNOWA(SLOVAK), KLJACSANOVE (UKRAINE), OR KLJACSANOVO.
                  > I found it on Mapquest, rendered as KLIACHANOVE:
                  > http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/2ho6wk> com/2ho6wk
                  >
                  > Another contemporary map, more detailed, is here:
                  > http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/34cgw2> com/34cgw2
                  > It's clearly visible on highway M17 just Northwest of Munkacs.
                  >
                  > Based on June's rendering, Elocona very likely could be Klacsano based on
                  > cursive errors alone. I would like to see a copy, I know you've tried.
                  > Latin vowels are often misinterpreted. KLACZANO would have been the
                  > Magyar spelling at some point.
                  >
                  > What June has said all makes sense - It would have been in Czechoslovakia,
                  > 1st republic from 1918 until 1939, in Hungary prior to that period.
                  >
                  > Bill
                  > On Sun, November 25, 2007 11:26 pm, Janet Kozlay wrote:
                  >> Klacsano was a village just northwest of Munkacs. See map at
                  >> http://lazarus. <http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/bereg.jpg.>
                  elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/bereg.jpg.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> I haven't been able to identify it on a modern map of Ukraine. It might
                  >> be
                  >> Suche, or it might have simply disappeared.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Janet
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> _____
                  >>
                  >> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                  yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@
                  <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]
                  >> On
                  >> Behalf Of junemckee
                  >> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 10:33 PM
                  >> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                  >> Subject: [S-R] finally got the immigration papers
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Well after reading Paula's posting lastweek regarding her papers
                  >> coming back and not being able to read them it has just happened to
                  >> me aswell. after 18mos of waiting I recieved my grandmother Meri
                  >> Boldizar "Kolina" immigration papers. I got the declaration of
                  >> intention, petition for naturalaization and the certificate .Welll I
                  >> cant hardly read anything!!!!! I have been on pins and needles for
                  >> all these months and then what a disapointment. I gave them a call
                  >> and the person which I spoke with is going to see if they can get a
                  >> better copy for me. Of course of all the things that I really need is
                  >> to be able to read the village in which she came from and it is very
                  >> difficult. The lady helping me on the phone tried to read it to me
                  >> the best that she could and thinks that the village looks like it
                  >> could be spelled "Elocona" the E could be an "F". it says
                  >> Czechslovakia hungary. I have always been told that she was from
                  >> Munkacs. The EI manifest which I believe to be her says she came from
                  >> Klaczano. I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
                  >> old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby. Does anyone know who
                  >> would be familiar with this area? I checked the fuzzy Gazzetter and
                  >> several other sites but couldnt get anything. I also have played
                  >> around with scanning them and nothing works. so much of the print is
                  >> gone.
                  >>
                  >> thank you,
                  >> June
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  >> http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/>
                  yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                  >>
                  >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  >> http://www.yahoogro <http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS>
                  ups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                  >> SLOVAK-ROOTS- <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
                  unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Bill Tarkulich
                  > http://www.iabsi. <http://www.iabsi.com> com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/>
                  yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  > http://www.yahoogro <http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS>
                  ups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                  > SLOVAK-ROOTS- <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
                  unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  --
                  Bill Tarkulich
                  http://www.iabsi. <http://www.iabsi.com> com





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Janet Kozlay
                  Bill, I have been running into a number of people lately who are looking for villages where some of the records are in Ukrainian/Cyrillic. This has always
                  Message 8 of 30 , Nov 26, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Bill,



                    I have been running into a number of people lately who are looking for
                    villages where some of the records are in Ukrainian/Cyrillic. This has
                    always given me pause, as I think that reading the Cyrillic would be a
                    daunting task, especially handwritten. Is there a general time period when
                    there would have been a switch from Hungarian to Ukrainian?



                    Do you have any suggestions for those who have to deal with reading
                    Cyrillic?



                    Janet



                    _____

                    From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of Bill Tarkulich
                    Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 3:11 AM
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano



                    By the way, in 1910: population 1099, 62 Magyar, 211 German, 825
                    Ruthenian. 189 roman catholic, 681 greek catholic and 214 Jews.
                    Was your family Greek catholic?
                    Regards,
                    Bill

                    On Mon, November 26, 2007 3:07 am, Bill Tarkulich wrote:
                    > I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
                    >> old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby.
                    > - Yes, it is nearby to Munkacs as Janet indicates.
                    >
                    > Depending on the translation, it could be rendered as KLJACSANOVO,
                    > KLACSNOWA(SLOVAK), KLJACSANOVE (UKRAINE), OR KLJACSANOVO.
                    > I found it on Mapquest, rendered as KLIACHANOVE:
                    > http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/2ho6wk> com/2ho6wk
                    >
                    > Another contemporary map, more detailed, is here:
                    > http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/34cgw2> com/34cgw2
                    > It's clearly visible on highway M17 just Northwest of Munkacs.
                    >
                    > Based on June's rendering, Elocona very likely could be Klacsano based on
                    > cursive errors alone. I would like to see a copy, I know you've tried.
                    > Latin vowels are often misinterpreted. KLACZANO would have been the
                    > Magyar spelling at some point.
                    >
                    > What June has said all makes sense - It would have been in Czechoslovakia,
                    > 1st republic from 1918 until 1939, in Hungary prior to that period.
                    >
                    > Bill
                    > On Sun, November 25, 2007 11:26 pm, Janet Kozlay wrote:
                    >> Klacsano was a village just northwest of Munkacs. See map at
                    >> http://lazarus. <http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/bereg.jpg.>
                    elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/bereg.jpg.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> I haven't been able to identify it on a modern map of Ukraine. It might
                    >> be
                    >> Suche, or it might have simply disappeared.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Janet
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> _____
                    >>
                    >> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                    yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@
                    <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]
                    >> On
                    >> Behalf Of junemckee
                    >> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 10:33 PM
                    >> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                    >> Subject: [S-R] finally got the immigration papers
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Well after reading Paula's posting lastweek regarding her papers
                    >> coming back and not being able to read them it has just happened to
                    >> me aswell. after 18mos of waiting I recieved my grandmother Meri
                    >> Boldizar "Kolina" immigration papers. I got the declaration of
                    >> intention, petition for naturalaization and the certificate .Welll I
                    >> cant hardly read anything!!!!! I have been on pins and needles for
                    >> all these months and then what a disapointment. I gave them a call
                    >> and the person which I spoke with is going to see if they can get a
                    >> better copy for me. Of course of all the things that I really need is
                    >> to be able to read the village in which she came from and it is very
                    >> difficult. The lady helping me on the phone tried to read it to me
                    >> the best that she could and thinks that the village looks like it
                    >> could be spelled "Elocona" the E could be an "F". it says
                    >> Czechslovakia hungary. I have always been told that she was from
                    >> Munkacs. The EI manifest which I believe to be her says she came from
                    >> Klaczano. I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
                    >> old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby. Does anyone know who
                    >> would be familiar with this area? I checked the fuzzy Gazzetter and
                    >> several other sites but couldnt get anything. I also have played
                    >> around with scanning them and nothing works. so much of the print is
                    >> gone.
                    >>
                    >> thank you,
                    >> June
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    >> http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/>
                    yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                    >>
                    >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    >> http://www.yahoogro <http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS>
                    ups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                    >> SLOVAK-ROOTS- <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
                    unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Bill Tarkulich
                    > http://www.iabsi. <http://www.iabsi.com> com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/>
                    yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    > http://www.yahoogro <http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS>
                    ups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                    > SLOVAK-ROOTS- <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
                    unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    --
                    Bill Tarkulich
                    http://www.iabsi. <http://www.iabsi.com> com





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • June McKee
                    Bill and Janet, thanks so much for the replys. If this villiage or town is indeed close to Munkacs it is a good possibility that my dad was right on where I
                    Message 9 of 30 , Nov 26, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Bill and Janet,

                      thanks so much for the replys. If this villiage or town is indeed close to Munkacs it is a good possibility that my dad was right on where I need to look. I was also thinking that the spelling on the documents could be misread and the "E" could also be a "K". My daughter thought it looked like a "K" to her! I have to run off to the old grind of work in just a few but tonight I will scan the copies and see if there is anyway they can be made out. I think that if I upload them to the group site that you will be able to enlarge them enough to be able to see anything. The print is very faint. If you dont mind I would email it your personal address. Let me know if that would work and I will do it tonight. I also want to take a good look at those maps but just dont have time this morning. Darn!!!!

                      I will be running into the problem of cyrillic many times in the future being with my Russian grandmother. I am holding off on that one for awhile.

                      thanks again,
                      June

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Bill Tarkulich
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:11 AM
                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano


                      By the way, in 1910: population 1099, 62 Magyar, 211 German, 825
                      Ruthenian. 189 roman catholic, 681 greek catholic and 214 Jews.
                      Was your family Greek catholic?
                      Regards,
                      Bill

                      On Mon, November 26, 2007 3:07 am, Bill Tarkulich wrote:
                      > I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
                      >> old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby.
                      > - Yes, it is nearby to Munkacs as Janet indicates.
                      >
                      > Depending on the translation, it could be rendered as KLJACSANOVO,
                      > KLACSNOWA(SLOVAK), KLJACSANOVE (UKRAINE), OR KLJACSANOVO.
                      > I found it on Mapquest, rendered as KLIACHANOVE:
                      > http://tinyurl.com/2ho6wk
                      >
                      > Another contemporary map, more detailed, is here:
                      > http://tinyurl.com/34cgw2
                      > It's clearly visible on highway M17 just Northwest of Munkacs.
                      >
                      > Based on June's rendering, Elocona very likely could be Klacsano based on
                      > cursive errors alone. I would like to see a copy, I know you've tried.
                      > Latin vowels are often misinterpreted. KLACZANO would have been the
                      > Magyar spelling at some point.
                      >
                      > What June has said all makes sense - It would have been in Czechoslovakia,
                      > 1st republic from 1918 until 1939, in Hungary prior to that period.
                      >
                      > Bill
                      > On Sun, November 25, 2007 11:26 pm, Janet Kozlay wrote:
                      >> Klacsano was a village just northwest of Munkacs. See map at
                      >> http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/bereg.jpg.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> I haven't been able to identify it on a modern map of Ukraine. It might
                      >> be
                      >> Suche, or it might have simply disappeared.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Janet
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> _____
                      >>
                      >> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                      >> On
                      >> Behalf Of junemckee
                      >> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 10:33 PM
                      >> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      >> Subject: [S-R] finally got the immigration papers
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Well after reading Paula's posting lastweek regarding her papers
                      >> coming back and not being able to read them it has just happened to
                      >> me aswell. after 18mos of waiting I recieved my grandmother Meri
                      >> Boldizar "Kolina" immigration papers. I got the declaration of
                      >> intention, petition for naturalaization and the certificate .Welll I
                      >> cant hardly read anything!!!!! I have been on pins and needles for
                      >> all these months and then what a disapointment. I gave them a call
                      >> and the person which I spoke with is going to see if they can get a
                      >> better copy for me. Of course of all the things that I really need is
                      >> to be able to read the village in which she came from and it is very
                      >> difficult. The lady helping me on the phone tried to read it to me
                      >> the best that she could and thinks that the village looks like it
                      >> could be spelled "Elocona" the E could be an "F". it says
                      >> Czechslovakia hungary. I have always been told that she was from
                      >> Munkacs. The EI manifest which I believe to be her says she came from
                      >> Klaczano. I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
                      >> old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby. Does anyone know who
                      >> would be familiar with this area? I checked the fuzzy Gazzetter and
                      >> several other sites but couldnt get anything. I also have played
                      >> around with scanning them and nothing works. so much of the print is
                      >> gone.
                      >>
                      >> thank you,
                      >> June
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                      >>
                      >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                      >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                      >> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > Bill Tarkulich
                      > http://www.iabsi.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                      > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      --
                      Bill Tarkulich
                      http://www.iabsi.com





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • June McKee
                      Bill, yes I would be very interested in seeing a scan of the book!! thanks, June ... From: Bill Tarkulich To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday,
                      Message 10 of 30 , Nov 26, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Bill,
                        yes I would be very interested in seeing a scan of the book!!
                        thanks,
                        June
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Bill Tarkulich
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:28 AM
                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano - photo of church


                        June,

                        I have a book with a 1997 photo and brief history of the church in this
                        village. The current building was constructed in 1820, the parish formed
                        in 1733. If you are interested, drop me a (private) note and I would be
                        happy to scan and email it to you. It's written in Ukrainian, I will
                        leave it to you to be translated.
                        Bill

                        On Mon, November 26, 2007 3:07 am, Bill Tarkulich wrote:
                        > I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
                        >> old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby.
                        > - Yes, it is nearby to Munkacs as Janet indicates.
                        >
                        > Depending on the translation, it could be rendered as KLJACSANOVO,
                        > KLACSNOWA(SLOVAK), KLJACSANOVE (UKRAINE), OR KLJACSANOVO.
                        > I found it on Mapquest, rendered as KLIACHANOVE:
                        > http://tinyurl.com/2ho6wk
                        >
                        > Another contemporary map, more detailed, is here:
                        > http://tinyurl.com/34cgw2
                        > It's clearly visible on highway M17 just Northwest of Munkacs.
                        >
                        > Based on June's rendering, Elocona very likely could be Klacsano based on
                        > cursive errors alone. I would like to see a copy, I know you've tried.
                        > Latin vowels are often misinterpreted. KLACZANO would have been the
                        > Magyar spelling at some point.
                        >
                        > What June has said all makes sense - It would have been in Czechoslovakia,
                        > 1st republic from 1918 until 1939, in Hungary prior to that period.
                        >
                        > Bill
                        > On Sun, November 25, 2007 11:26 pm, Janet Kozlay wrote:
                        >> Klacsano was a village just northwest of Munkacs. See map at
                        >> http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/bereg.jpg.
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> I haven't been able to identify it on a modern map of Ukraine. It might
                        >> be
                        >> Suche, or it might have simply disappeared.
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Janet
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> _____
                        >>
                        >> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                        >> On
                        >> Behalf Of junemckee
                        >> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 10:33 PM
                        >> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        >> Subject: [S-R] finally got the immigration papers
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Well after reading Paula's posting lastweek regarding her papers
                        >> coming back and not being able to read them it has just happened to
                        >> me aswell. after 18mos of waiting I recieved my grandmother Meri
                        >> Boldizar "Kolina" immigration papers. I got the declaration of
                        >> intention, petition for naturalaization and the certificate .Welll I
                        >> cant hardly read anything!!!!! I have been on pins and needles for
                        >> all these months and then what a disapointment. I gave them a call
                        >> and the person which I spoke with is going to see if they can get a
                        >> better copy for me. Of course of all the things that I really need is
                        >> to be able to read the village in which she came from and it is very
                        >> difficult. The lady helping me on the phone tried to read it to me
                        >> the best that she could and thinks that the village looks like it
                        >> could be spelled "Elocona" the E could be an "F". it says
                        >> Czechslovakia hungary. I have always been told that she was from
                        >> Munkacs. The EI manifest which I believe to be her says she came from
                        >> Klaczano. I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
                        >> old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby. Does anyone know who
                        >> would be familiar with this area? I checked the fuzzy Gazzetter and
                        >> several other sites but couldnt get anything. I also have played
                        >> around with scanning them and nothing works. so much of the print is
                        >> gone.
                        >>
                        >> thank you,
                        >> June
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                        >>
                        >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                        >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                        >> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        > --
                        > Bill Tarkulich
                        > http://www.iabsi.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                        > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                        > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        --
                        Bill Tarkulich
                        http://www.iabsi.com





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Bill Tarkulich
                        Hi Janet, Thank you for the Magyar correction, I m sure you are right. You ask a very difficult question. I am no expert in Ukraine, but given that the area of
                        Message 11 of 30 , Nov 26, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Janet,

                          Thank you for the Magyar correction, I'm sure you are right.

                          You ask a very difficult question.
                          I am no expert in Ukraine, but given that the area of Sub-Carpathian Rus
                          which we are speaking (Ukraine is a huge place) we know that records were
                          kept based on the administration in power. I would suggest:
                          Pre-1918, 1939-1945 = Magyar
                          1919-1939 = Slovak
                          1945+ = Ukrainian
                          The above applies to civil records. Churches had their own standards.
                          Sometimes the official language, sometimes Latin, sometimes Church Slavonic,
                          and, I'm sure, others. So you must also be careful to know which language
                          is being rendered in Cyrillic.

                          Reading Cyrillic is moderately difficult but possible if you concentrate on
                          place names, surnames and numbers. These are recognizable without having to
                          understand the language. Of course, finding a document in tabular form
                          makes it easy.

                          To go letter-by-letter, I have a number of reference tables.

                          As you say, cursive Cyrillic, written in linear (non-tabular) form is nearly
                          impossible. In this case, I write out/render the words I am looking for
                          in Cursive Cyrillic onto a small note card, then place it adjacent to the
                          document and skim through the pages. I found many TARKULIC that way from
                          1600/1700 church records.
                          http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/language.htm#church


                          The other possibility is to find someone in Russia or Ukraine who can
                          translate for you. I've done that when I had the chapter of a history book
                          to translate.

                          Regards,

                          Bill


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                          Behalf Of Janet Kozlay
                          Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 4:42 AM
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [S-R] Klacsano - Question for Bill

                          Bill,



                          I have been running into a number of people lately who are looking for
                          villages where some of the records are in Ukrainian/Cyrillic. This has
                          always given me pause, as I think that reading the Cyrillic would be a
                          daunting task, especially handwritten. Is there a general time period when
                          there would have been a switch from Hungarian to Ukrainian?



                          Do you have any suggestions for those who have to deal with reading
                          Cyrillic?



                          Janet



                          _____

                          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                          Behalf Of Bill Tarkulich
                          Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 3:11 AM
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano



                          By the way, in 1910: population 1099, 62 Magyar, 211 German, 825
                          Ruthenian. 189 roman catholic, 681 greek catholic and 214 Jews.
                          Was your family Greek catholic?
                          Regards,
                          Bill

                          On Mon, November 26, 2007 3:07 am, Bill Tarkulich wrote:
                          > I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
                          >> old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby.
                          > - Yes, it is nearby to Munkacs as Janet indicates.
                          >
                          > Depending on the translation, it could be rendered as KLJACSANOVO,
                          > KLACSNOWA(SLOVAK), KLJACSANOVE (UKRAINE), OR KLJACSANOVO.
                          > I found it on Mapquest, rendered as KLIACHANOVE:
                          > http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/2ho6wk> com/2ho6wk
                          >
                          > Another contemporary map, more detailed, is here:
                          > http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/34cgw2> com/34cgw2
                          > It's clearly visible on highway M17 just Northwest of Munkacs.
                          >
                          > Based on June's rendering, Elocona very likely could be Klacsano based on
                          > cursive errors alone. I would like to see a copy, I know you've tried.
                          > Latin vowels are often misinterpreted. KLACZANO would have been the
                          > Magyar spelling at some point.
                          >
                          > What June has said all makes sense - It would have been in Czechoslovakia,
                          > 1st republic from 1918 until 1939, in Hungary prior to that period.
                          >
                          > Bill
                          > On Sun, November 25, 2007 11:26 pm, Janet Kozlay wrote:
                          >> Klacsano was a village just northwest of Munkacs. See map at
                          >> http://lazarus. <http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/bereg.jpg.>
                          elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/bereg.jpg.
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> I haven't been able to identify it on a modern map of Ukraine. It might
                          >> be
                          >> Suche, or it might have simply disappeared.
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> Janet
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> _____
                          >>
                          >> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                          yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@
                          <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]
                          >> On
                          >> Behalf Of junemckee
                          >> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 10:33 PM
                          >> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                          >> Subject: [S-R] finally got the immigration papers
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> Well after reading Paula's posting lastweek regarding her papers
                          >> coming back and not being able to read them it has just happened to
                          >> me aswell. after 18mos of waiting I recieved my grandmother Meri
                          >> Boldizar "Kolina" immigration papers. I got the declaration of
                          >> intention, petition for naturalaization and the certificate .Welll I
                          >> cant hardly read anything!!!!! I have been on pins and needles for
                          >> all these months and then what a disapointment. I gave them a call
                          >> and the person which I spoke with is going to see if they can get a
                          >> better copy for me. Of course of all the things that I really need is
                          >> to be able to read the village in which she came from and it is very
                          >> difficult. The lady helping me on the phone tried to read it to me
                          >> the best that she could and thinks that the village looks like it
                          >> could be spelled "Elocona" the E could be an "F". it says
                          >> Czechslovakia hungary. I have always been told that she was from
                          >> Munkacs. The EI manifest which I believe to be her says she came from
                          >> Klaczano. I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
                          >> old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby. Does anyone know who
                          >> would be familiar with this area? I checked the fuzzy Gazzetter and
                          >> several other sites but couldnt get anything. I also have played
                          >> around with scanning them and nothing works. so much of the print is
                          >> gone.
                          >>
                          >> thank you,
                          >> June
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          >> http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/>
                          yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                          >>
                          >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                          >> http://www.yahoogro <http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS>
                          ups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                          >> SLOVAK-ROOTS- <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
                          unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          > --
                          > Bill Tarkulich
                          > http://www.iabsi. <http://www.iabsi.com> com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          > http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/>
                          yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                          > http://www.yahoogro <http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS>
                          ups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                          > SLOVAK-ROOTS- <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
                          unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          --
                          Bill Tarkulich
                          http://www.iabsi. <http://www.iabsi.com> com





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                          To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                          To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                          http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                          SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                        • Janet Kozlay
                          Dear Bill, Thanks for the advice. It sounds like a workable approach that I can pass on to others. It is still disheartening, though, to see the film notes
                          Message 12 of 30 , Nov 26, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Dear Bill,



                            Thanks for the advice. It sounds like a workable approach that I can pass on
                            to others. It is still disheartening, though, to see the film notes that the
                            church records are in Latin, Hungarian, and Ukrainian. I cross my fingers
                            hoping that the time period they are most interested in is in Hungarian.



                            Janet



                            _____

                            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of Bill Tarkulich
                            Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 1:25 PM
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [S-R] Question for Bill / Reading Cyrillic-rendered writings



                            Hi Janet,

                            Thank you for the Magyar correction, I'm sure you are right.

                            You ask a very difficult question.
                            I am no expert in Ukraine, but given that the area of Sub-Carpathian Rus
                            which we are speaking (Ukraine is a huge place) we know that records were
                            kept based on the administration in power. I would suggest:
                            Pre-1918, 1939-1945 = Magyar
                            1919-1939 = Slovak
                            1945+ = Ukrainian
                            The above applies to civil records. Churches had their own standards.
                            Sometimes the official language, sometimes Latin, sometimes Church Slavonic,
                            and, I'm sure, others. So you must also be careful to know which language
                            is being rendered in Cyrillic.

                            Reading Cyrillic is moderately difficult but possible if you concentrate on
                            place names, surnames and numbers. These are recognizable without having to
                            understand the language. Of course, finding a document in tabular form
                            makes it easy.

                            To go letter-by-letter, I have a number of reference tables.

                            As you say, cursive Cyrillic, written in linear (non-tabular) form is nearly
                            impossible. In this case, I write out/render the words I am looking for
                            in Cursive Cyrillic onto a small note card, then place it adjacent to the
                            document and skim through the pages. I found many TARKULIC that way from
                            1600/1700 church records.
                            http://www.iabsi. <http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/language.htm#church>
                            com/gen/public/language.htm#church

                            The other possibility is to find someone in Russia or Ukraine who can
                            translate for you. I've done that when I had the chapter of a history book
                            to translate.

                            Regards,

                            Bill


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                            [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                            yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of Janet Kozlay
                            Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 4:42 AM
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [S-R] Klacsano - Question for Bill

                            Bill,

                            I have been running into a number of people lately who are looking for
                            villages where some of the records are in Ukrainian/Cyrillic. This has
                            always given me pause, as I think that reading the Cyrillic would be a
                            daunting task, especially handwritten. Is there a general time period when
                            there would have been a switch from Hungarian to Ukrainian?

                            Do you have any suggestions for those who have to deal with reading
                            Cyrillic?

                            Janet

                            _____

                            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                            [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                            yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of Bill Tarkulich
                            Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 3:11 AM
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano

                            By the way, in 1910: population 1099, 62 Magyar, 211 German, 825
                            Ruthenian. 189 roman catholic, 681 greek catholic and 214 Jews.
                            Was your family Greek catholic?
                            Regards,
                            Bill

                            On Mon, November 26, 2007 3:07 am, Bill Tarkulich wrote:
                            > I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
                            >> old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby.
                            > - Yes, it is nearby to Munkacs as Janet indicates.
                            >
                            > Depending on the translation, it could be rendered as KLJACSANOVO,
                            > KLACSNOWA(SLOVAK), KLJACSANOVE (UKRAINE), OR KLJACSANOVO.
                            > I found it on Mapquest, rendered as KLIACHANOVE:
                            > http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/2ho6wk> com/2ho6wk>
                            com/2ho6wk
                            >
                            > Another contemporary map, more detailed, is here:
                            > http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/34cgw2> com/34cgw2>
                            com/34cgw2
                            > It's clearly visible on highway M17 just Northwest of Munkacs.
                            >
                            > Based on June's rendering, Elocona very likely could be Klacsano based on
                            > cursive errors alone. I would like to see a copy, I know you've tried.
                            > Latin vowels are often misinterpreted. KLACZANO would have been the
                            > Magyar spelling at some point.
                            >
                            > What June has said all makes sense - It would have been in Czechoslovakia,
                            > 1st republic from 1918 until 1939, in Hungary prior to that period.
                            >
                            > Bill
                            > On Sun, November 25, 2007 11:26 pm, Janet Kozlay wrote:
                            >> Klacsano was a village just northwest of Munkacs. See map at
                            >> http://lazarus. <http://lazarus.
                            <http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/bereg.jpg.>
                            elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/bereg.jpg.>
                            elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/bereg.jpg.
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> I haven't been able to identify it on a modern map of Ukraine. It might
                            >> be
                            >> Suche, or it might have simply disappeared.
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Janet
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> _____
                            >>
                            >> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                            yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@
                            <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]
                            >> On
                            >> Behalf Of junemckee
                            >> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 10:33 PM
                            >> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                            >> Subject: [S-R] finally got the immigration papers
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Well after reading Paula's posting lastweek regarding her papers
                            >> coming back and not being able to read them it has just happened to
                            >> me aswell. after 18mos of waiting I recieved my grandmother Meri
                            >> Boldizar "Kolina" immigration papers. I got the declaration of
                            >> intention, petition for naturalaization and the certificate .Welll I
                            >> cant hardly read anything!!!!! I have been on pins and needles for
                            >> all these months and then what a disapointment. I gave them a call
                            >> and the person which I spoke with is going to see if they can get a
                            >> better copy for me. Of course of all the things that I really need is
                            >> to be able to read the village in which she came from and it is very
                            >> difficult. The lady helping me on the phone tried to read it to me
                            >> the best that she could and thinks that the village looks like it
                            >> could be spelled "Elocona" the E could be an "F". it says
                            >> Czechslovakia hungary. I have always been told that she was from
                            >> Munkacs. The EI manifest which I believe to be her says she came from
                            >> Klaczano. I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
                            >> old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby. Does anyone know who
                            >> would be familiar with this area? I checked the fuzzy Gazzetter and
                            >> several other sites but couldnt get anything. I also have played
                            >> around with scanning them and nothing works. so much of the print is
                            >> gone.
                            >>
                            >> thank you,
                            >> June
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                            >> http://groups. <http://groups.
                            <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/> yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/>
                            yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                            >>
                            >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                            >> http://www.yahoogro <http://www.yahoogro
                            <http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS> ups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS>
                            ups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                            >> SLOVAK-ROOTS- <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
                            unsubscribe@ <mailto:unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            > --
                            > Bill Tarkulich
                            > http://www.iabsi. <http://www.iabsi. <http://www.iabsi.com> com> com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                            > http://groups. <http://groups.
                            <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/> yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/>
                            yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                            >
                            > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                            > http://www.yahoogro <http://www.yahoogro
                            <http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS> ups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS>
                            ups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                            > SLOVAK-ROOTS- <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
                            unsubscribe@ <mailto:unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            --
                            Bill Tarkulich
                            http://www.iabsi. <http://www.iabsi. <http://www.iabsi.com> com> com

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            To visit your group on the web, go to:
                            http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/>
                            yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                            To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                            http://www.yahoogro <http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS>
                            ups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                            SLOVAK-ROOTS- <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
                            unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            Yahoo! Groups Links





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • June McKee
                            Bill, As far as I have always known my family has always been Catholic. I do not think any were Greek Catholic. Thanks for the map links. I especially like the
                            Message 13 of 30 , Nov 26, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Bill,

                              As far as I have always known my family has always been Catholic. I do not think any were Greek Catholic.

                              Thanks for the map links. I especially like the contemporary one. I take it that it is in Russian? I would have never been able to find that one.
                              Thanks,
                              June
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Bill Tarkulich
                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:11 AM
                              Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano


                              By the way, in 1910: population 1099, 62 Magyar, 211 German, 825
                              Ruthenian. 189 roman catholic, 681 greek catholic and 214 Jews.
                              Was your family Greek catholic?
                              Regards,
                              Bill

                              On Mon, November 26, 2007 3:07 am, Bill Tarkulich wrote:
                              > I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
                              >> old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby.
                              > - Yes, it is nearby to Munkacs as Janet indicates.
                              >
                              > Depending on the translation, it could be rendered as KLJACSANOVO,
                              > KLACSNOWA(SLOVAK), KLJACSANOVE (UKRAINE), OR KLJACSANOVO.
                              > I found it on Mapquest, rendered as KLIACHANOVE:
                              > http://tinyurl.com/2ho6wk
                              >
                              > Another contemporary map, more detailed, is here:
                              > http://tinyurl.com/34cgw2
                              > It's clearly visible on highway M17 just Northwest of Munkacs.
                              >
                              > Based on June's rendering, Elocona very likely could be Klacsano based on
                              > cursive errors alone. I would like to see a copy, I know you've tried.
                              > Latin vowels are often misinterpreted. KLACZANO would have been the
                              > Magyar spelling at some point.
                              >
                              > What June has said all makes sense - It would have been in Czechoslovakia,
                              > 1st republic from 1918 until 1939, in Hungary prior to that period.
                              >
                              > Bill
                              > On Sun, November 25, 2007 11:26 pm, Janet Kozlay wrote:
                              >> Klacsano was a village just northwest of Munkacs. See map at
                              >> http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/bereg.jpg.
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> I haven't been able to identify it on a modern map of Ukraine. It might
                              >> be
                              >> Suche, or it might have simply disappeared.
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> Janet
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> _____
                              >>
                              >> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                              >> On
                              >> Behalf Of junemckee
                              >> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 10:33 PM
                              >> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              >> Subject: [S-R] finally got the immigration papers
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> Well after reading Paula's posting lastweek regarding her papers
                              >> coming back and not being able to read them it has just happened to
                              >> me aswell. after 18mos of waiting I recieved my grandmother Meri
                              >> Boldizar "Kolina" immigration papers. I got the declaration of
                              >> intention, petition for naturalaization and the certificate .Welll I
                              >> cant hardly read anything!!!!! I have been on pins and needles for
                              >> all these months and then what a disapointment. I gave them a call
                              >> and the person which I spoke with is going to see if they can get a
                              >> better copy for me. Of course of all the things that I really need is
                              >> to be able to read the village in which she came from and it is very
                              >> difficult. The lady helping me on the phone tried to read it to me
                              >> the best that she could and thinks that the village looks like it
                              >> could be spelled "Elocona" the E could be an "F". it says
                              >> Czechslovakia hungary. I have always been told that she was from
                              >> Munkacs. The EI manifest which I believe to be her says she came from
                              >> Klaczano. I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
                              >> old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby. Does anyone know who
                              >> would be familiar with this area? I checked the fuzzy Gazzetter and
                              >> several other sites but couldnt get anything. I also have played
                              >> around with scanning them and nothing works. so much of the print is
                              >> gone.
                              >>
                              >> thank you,
                              >> June
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                              >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                              >>
                              >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                              >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                              >> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > Bill Tarkulich
                              > http://www.iabsi.com
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                              >
                              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                              > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                              > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >

                              --
                              Bill Tarkulich
                              http://www.iabsi.com





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Paula
                              I m still waiting to hear back from someone regarding my papers. The copies are so bad, I don t even know what they sent to me. I can make out the name
                              Message 14 of 30 , Nov 29, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I'm still waiting to hear back from someone regarding my papers. The
                                copies are so bad, I don't even know what they sent to me. I can make
                                out the name Weisskirchen (grandpa called it Fehertemplom) and the king
                                of Hungary's name, that's it. I'll call them again tomorrow.



                                Paula




                                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "junemckee" <junemckee@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Well after reading Paula's posting lastweek regarding her papers
                                > coming back and not being able to read them it has just happened to
                                > me aswell. after 18mos of waiting I recieved my grandmother Meri
                                > Boldizar "Kolina" immigration papers. I got the declaration of
                                > intention, petition for naturalaization and the certificate .Welll I
                                > cant hardly read anything!!!!! I have been on pins and needles for
                                > all these months and then what a disapointment. I gave them a call
                                > and the person which I spoke with is going to see if they can get a
                                > better copy for me. Of course of all the things that I really need is
                                > to be able to read the village in which she came from and it is very
                                > difficult. The lady helping me on the phone tried to read it to me
                                > the best that she could and thinks that the village looks like it
                                > could be spelled "Elocona" the E could be an "F". it says
                                > Czechslovakia hungary. I have always been told that she was from
                                > Munkacs. The EI manifest which I believe to be her says she came from
                                > Klaczano. I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
                                > old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby. Does anyone know who
                                > would be familiar with this area? I checked the fuzzy Gazzetter and
                                > several other sites but couldnt get anything. I also have played
                                > around with scanning them and nothing works. so much of the print is
                                > gone.
                                >
                                > thank you,
                                > June
                                >
                              • Paula
                                I m still waiting to hear back from someone regarding my papers. The copies are so bad, I don t even know what they sent to me. I can make out the name
                                Message 15 of 30 , Nov 29, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I'm still waiting to hear back from someone regarding my papers. The
                                  copies are so bad, I don't even know what they sent to me. I can make
                                  out the name Weisskirchen (grandpa called it Fehertemplom) and the king
                                  of Hungary's name, that's it. I'll call them again tomorrow.



                                  Paula




                                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "junemckee" <junemckee@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Well after reading Paula's posting lastweek regarding her papers
                                  > coming back and not being able to read them it has just happened to
                                  > me aswell. after 18mos of waiting I recieved my grandmother Meri
                                  > Boldizar "Kolina" immigration papers. I got the declaration of
                                  > intention, petition for naturalaization and the certificate .Welll I
                                  > cant hardly read anything!!!!! I have been on pins and needles for
                                  > all these months and then what a disapointment. I gave them a call
                                  > and the person which I spoke with is going to see if they can get a
                                  > better copy for me. Of course of all the things that I really need is
                                  > to be able to read the village in which she came from and it is very
                                  > difficult. The lady helping me on the phone tried to read it to me
                                  > the best that she could and thinks that the village looks like it
                                  > could be spelled "Elocona" the E could be an "F". it says
                                  > Czechslovakia hungary. I have always been told that she was from
                                  > Munkacs. The EI manifest which I believe to be her says she came from
                                  > Klaczano. I was told several years ago that Klaczano was possibly an
                                  > old name for Munkacs? or possibly very nearby. Does anyone know who
                                  > would be familiar with this area? I checked the fuzzy Gazzetter and
                                  > several other sites but couldnt get anything. I also have played
                                  > around with scanning them and nothing works. so much of the print is
                                  > gone.
                                  >
                                  > thank you,
                                  > June
                                  >
                                • fernbrough
                                  June: In the upper right hand corner of this map is Munkacs. http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-48.jpg You can see the town of Klacsano just NW
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Dec 2, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    June:

                                    In the upper right hand corner of this map is Munkacs.

                                    http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-48.jpg

                                    You can see the town of Klacsano just NW of Munkacs.

                                    Thanks!
                                  • gklodzen@aol.com
                                    Just curious, but does anyone know where the town of VinnaBanka is in relationship to Munkacs on this map? Also, is this a map of the old Ung county or of
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Dec 2, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Just curious, but does anyone know where the town of VinnaBanka is in
                                      relationship to Munkacs on this map? Also, is this a map of the old Ung county or
                                      of another region?

                                      Many thanks,
                                      Eugene Klodzen

                                      In a message dated 12/2/2007 8:29:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                                      rmom@... writes:

                                      June:

                                      In the upper right hand corner of this map is Munkacs.

                                      _http://lazarus.http://lazarhttp://lahttp://lazhttp://la_
                                      (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-48.jpg)

                                      You can see the town of Klacsano just NW of Munkacs.

                                      Thanks!







                                      **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                                      products.
                                      (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • johnqadam
                                      ... Vinné, Slovakia, formerly Vinna-Banka, Ung, Hungary, is located east of Michalovce on the north side of Zemplinska Sirava. Not near Munkacs on any map.
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Dec 2, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        >>> does anyone know where the town of VinnaBanka is <<<

                                        Vinné, Slovakia, formerly Vinna-Banka, Ung, Hungary, is located east of
                                        Michalovce on the north side of Zemplinska Sirava. Not near Munkacs on
                                        any map.
                                      • June McKee
                                        thank you for the map. I can diffently see Klacsano there. Being this villiage is so close to Munkacs that is probably why my grandmother always refered to
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Dec 2, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          thank you for the map. I can diffently see Klacsano there. Being this villiage is so close to Munkacs that is probably why my grandmother always refered to Munkacs.

                                          thanks
                                          June
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: fernbrough
                                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 5:28 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano


                                          June:

                                          In the upper right hand corner of this map is Munkacs.

                                          http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-48.jpg

                                          You can see the town of Klacsano just NW of Munkacs.

                                          Thanks!





                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • fernbrough
                                          Eugene: This map is part of the 3rd Military Mapping Survey for Austria-Hungary . They are dated in the lower right corner; the one for Munkacs was dated
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Dec 2, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Eugene:

                                            This map is part of the "3rd Military Mapping Survey for
                                            Austria-Hungary". They are dated in the lower right corner; the one
                                            for Munkacs was dated 1889.

                                            http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm

                                            It's an interactive map just click on the city/area you are interested
                                            in researching.

                                            Munkacs was in Bereg County, just southeast of Ung county.

                                            http://www.talmamedia.com/map/hhcounty/images/megyek1/beugun.gif

                                            Your Vinna-Banka is shown as Vinna on this map. On the left side
                                            margin look for 49 degrees. Vinna is a little bit to the right, half
                                            way down the map.

                                            All of these maps are found on Bill T's web site.

                                            Good researching!

                                            Bob S.


                                            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, gklodzen@... wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Just curious, but does anyone know where the town of VinnaBanka is in
                                            > relationship to Munkacs on this map? Also, is this a map of the old
                                            Ung county or
                                            > of another region?
                                            >
                                            > Many thanks,
                                            > Eugene Klodzen
                                            >
                                            > I
                                          • fernbrough
                                            The third reference map is the following, where Vinna is shown: http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-49.jpg Sorry! ... is in
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Dec 2, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              The third reference map is the following, where Vinna is shown:

                                              http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-49.jpg

                                              Sorry!


                                              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "fernbrough" <rmom@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Eugene:
                                              >
                                              > This map is part of the "3rd Military Mapping Survey for
                                              > Austria-Hungary". They are dated in the lower right corner; the one
                                              > for Munkacs was dated 1889.
                                              >
                                              > http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm
                                              >
                                              > It's an interactive map just click on the city/area you are interested
                                              > in researching.
                                              >
                                              > Munkacs was in Bereg County, just southeast of Ung county.
                                              >
                                              > http://www.talmamedia.com/map/hhcounty/images/megyek1/beugun.gif
                                              >
                                              > Your Vinna-Banka is shown as Vinna on this map. On the left side
                                              > margin look for 49 degrees. Vinna is a little bit to the right, half
                                              > way down the map.
                                              >
                                              > All of these maps are found on Bill T's web site.
                                              >
                                              > Good researching!
                                              >
                                              > Bob S.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, gklodzen@ wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Just curious, but does anyone know where the town of VinnaBanka
                                              is in
                                              > > relationship to Munkacs on this map? Also, is this a map of the old
                                              > Ung county or
                                              > > of another region?
                                              > >
                                              > > Many thanks,
                                              > > Eugene Klodzen
                                              > >
                                              > > I
                                              >
                                            • gklodzen@aol.com
                                              An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne (my
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Dec 2, 2007
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand
                                                correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne (my
                                                grandfather's village, thus the question), including Klacsano, has become
                                                part of Ukraine? If so I know how fortunate I was to find the family records
                                                that I did.

                                                Many thanks for your time,
                                                Eugene Klodzen


                                                In a message dated 12/2/2007 8:25:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                                                rmom@... writes:

                                                The third reference map is the following, where Vinna is shown:

                                                _http://lazarus.http://lazarhttp://lahttp://lazhttp://la_
                                                (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-49.jpg)

                                                Sorry!

                                                --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                                                , "fernbrough" <rmom@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Eugene:
                                                >
                                                > This map is part of the "3rd Military Mapping Survey for
                                                > Austria-Hungary" Austria-Hungary"<WBR>. They are dated in the lower
                                                > for Munkacs was dated 1889.
                                                >
                                                > _http://lazarus.http://lazarhttp://lahttp://lazarus.htt_
                                                (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm)
                                                >
                                                > It's an interactive map just click on the city/area you are interested
                                                > in researching.
                                                >
                                                > Munkacs was in Bereg County, just southeast of Ung county.
                                                >
                                                > _http://www.talmamedhttp://www.http://wwhttp://www.talmhttp://www_
                                                (http://www.talmamedia.com/map/hhcounty/images/megyek1/beugun.gif)
                                                >
                                                > Your Vinna-Banka is shown as Vinna on this map. On the left side
                                                > margin look for 49 degrees. Vinna is a little bit to the right, half
                                                > way down the map.
                                                >
                                                > All of these maps are found on Bill T's web site.
                                                >
                                                > Good researching!
                                                >
                                                > Bob S.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                                                , gklodzen@ wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Just curious, but does anyone know where the town of VinnaBanka
                                                is in
                                                > > relationship to Munkacs on this map? Also, is this a map of the old
                                                > Ung county or
                                                > > of another region?
                                                > >
                                                > > Many thanks,
                                                > > Eugene Klodzen







                                                **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                                                products.
                                                (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Ron Matviyak
                                                ... bit to the right, half way down the map. A word of caution with the old maps from Austria-Hungary. The latitude shown on the old maps is Ferro, not
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  > On the left side> > margin look for 49 degrees. Vinna is a little
                                                  bit to the right, half> > way down the map.

                                                  A word of caution with the old maps from Austria-Hungary. The
                                                  latitude shown on the old maps is Ferro, not Greenwich. Thus the
                                                  numbers are about 17° 40' So if you have some need for the modern
                                                  longitude, subtract 17° 40' from what the map says and you will be
                                                  very close to the modern Greenwich value.

                                                  Here is a bit of edited history taken from Wikipedia:

                                                  FERRO, Canary Islands, was known in Europe as the prime meridian in
                                                  common use outside of the future British Empire. In the 2nd century
                                                  A.D., Ptolemy considered a zero meridian based on the western-most
                                                  position of the known world, giving maps with only positive (eastern)
                                                  longitudes.

                                                  In 1634 France decided that Ferro's meridian should be used as the
                                                  reference on maps, since this island is the most western position of
                                                  the Old World and also thought to be exactly 20 degrees west of the
                                                  Paris meridian…

                                                  Old maps (outside of Anglo-America) often have a common grid with
                                                  Paris degrees at the top and Ferro degrees offset by 20 at the bottom.
                                                  Theodor Albrecht (ca. 1890) calculated the Ferro meridian as 17° 39'
                                                  46.02" west of the Greenwich meridian. The geodetic systems of
                                                  Hungary and Yugoslavia, used this value prior to the switch to the
                                                  Greenwich prime meridian.
                                                  But for the geodetic networks of Austria, Germany and Czechoslovakia,
                                                  the value 17° 40' 00" was adopted in the 1920s,
                                                • June McKee
                                                  Eugene, just curious, where did you find your family records if they are indeed in the Ukraine? June ... From: gklodzen@aol.com To:
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Eugene,

                                                    just curious, where did you find your family records if they are indeed in the Ukraine?

                                                    June
                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    From: gklodzen@...
                                                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:06 PM
                                                    Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano



                                                    An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand
                                                    correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne (my
                                                    grandfather's village, thus the question), including Klacsano, has become
                                                    part of Ukraine? If so I know how fortunate I was to find the family records
                                                    that I did.

                                                    Many thanks for your time,
                                                    Eugene Klodzen


                                                    In a message dated 12/2/2007 8:25:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                                                    rmom@... writes:

                                                    The third reference map is the following, where Vinna is shown:

                                                    _http://lazarus.http://lazarhttp://lahttp://lazhttp://la_
                                                    (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/40-49.jpg)

                                                    Sorry!

                                                    --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                                                    , "fernbrough" <rmom@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Eugene:
                                                    >
                                                    > This map is part of the "3rd Military Mapping Survey for
                                                    > Austria-Hungary" Austria-Hungary"<WBR>. They are dated in the lower
                                                    > for Munkacs was dated 1889.
                                                    >
                                                    > _http://lazarus.http://lazarhttp://lahttp://lazarus.htt_
                                                    (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm)
                                                    >
                                                    > It's an interactive map just click on the city/area you are interested
                                                    > in researching.
                                                    >
                                                    > Munkacs was in Bereg County, just southeast of Ung county.
                                                    >
                                                    > _http://www.talmamedhttp://www.http://wwhttp://www.talmhttp://www_
                                                    (http://www.talmamedia.com/map/hhcounty/images/megyek1/beugun.gif)
                                                    >
                                                    > Your Vinna-Banka is shown as Vinna on this map. On the left side
                                                    > margin look for 49 degrees. Vinna is a little bit to the right, half
                                                    > way down the map.
                                                    >
                                                    > All of these maps are found on Bill T's web site.
                                                    >
                                                    > Good researching!
                                                    >
                                                    > Bob S.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                                                    , gklodzen@ wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Just curious, but does anyone know where the town of VinnaBanka
                                                    is in
                                                    > > relationship to Munkacs on this map? Also, is this a map of the old
                                                    > Ung county or
                                                    > > of another region?
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Many thanks,
                                                    > > Eugene Klodzen

                                                    **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                                                    products.
                                                    (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • gklodzen@aol.com
                                                    Sorry, June. I did not make that very clear. Vinne is, fortunately, not in Ukraine. I found my family records among those church records photographed by LDS
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Sorry, June. I did not make that very clear. Vinne is, fortunately, not in
                                                      Ukraine. I found my family records among those church records photographed by
                                                      LDS volunteers in the 1990s and available now to researchers from the Family
                                                      History Library.

                                                      On the other hand, the 1869 Hungarian Census for Vinne is not available, and
                                                      I'm not certain why, but I believe it might have something to do with
                                                      Ukraine. I was able to piece a part of my 19th century family's history together
                                                      from those church documents, but because of the missing 1869 Census not all of
                                                      it.

                                                      I gather that Klacsano is in that part of Ung county that was absorbed into
                                                      Ukraine.

                                                      Good luck with your research,
                                                      Eugene





                                                      In a message dated 12/3/2007 1:16:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                                                      junemckee@... writes:

                                                      Eugene,

                                                      just curious, where did you find your family records if they are indeed in
                                                      the Ukraine?

                                                      June
                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      From: _gklodzen@..._ (mailto:gklodzen@...)
                                                      To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                                                      Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:06 PM
                                                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano

                                                      An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand
                                                      correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne
                                                      (my
                                                      grandfather'grandfather'<WBR>s village, thus the question), including Klac
                                                      part of Ukraine? If so I know how fortunate I was to find the family records
                                                      that I did.

                                                      Many thanks for your time,
                                                      Eugene Klodzen








                                                      **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                                                      products.
                                                      (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • June McKee
                                                      Thanks Eugene I think I am going to need all of the luck I can get with being in the Ukraine. Maybe someday that area will be able to be filmed or possibly I
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        Thanks Eugene I think I am going to need all of the luck I can get with being in the Ukraine. Maybe someday that area will be able to be filmed or possibly I will be able to find someone that can do a search in there.

                                                        Good luck to you aswell,
                                                        June
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: gklodzen@...
                                                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 1:45 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano



                                                        Sorry, June. I did not make that very clear. Vinne is, fortunately, not in
                                                        Ukraine. I found my family records among those church records photographed by
                                                        LDS volunteers in the 1990s and available now to researchers from the Family
                                                        History Library.

                                                        On the other hand, the 1869 Hungarian Census for Vinne is not available, and
                                                        I'm not certain why, but I believe it might have something to do with
                                                        Ukraine. I was able to piece a part of my 19th century family's history together
                                                        from those church documents, but because of the missing 1869 Census not all of
                                                        it.

                                                        I gather that Klacsano is in that part of Ung county that was absorbed into
                                                        Ukraine.

                                                        Good luck with your research,
                                                        Eugene





                                                        In a message dated 12/3/2007 1:16:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                                                        junemckee@... writes:

                                                        Eugene,

                                                        just curious, where did you find your family records if they are indeed in
                                                        the Ukraine?

                                                        June
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: _gklodzen@..._ (mailto:gklodzen@...)
                                                        To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                                                        Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:06 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Klacsano

                                                        An beautiful and detailed map, Bob. Thank you very much. Do I understand
                                                        correctly that today much of the old Ung County to the East of village Vinne
                                                        (my
                                                        grandfather'grandfather'<WBR>s village, thus the question), including Klac
                                                        part of Ukraine? If so I know how fortunate I was to find the family records
                                                        that I did.

                                                        Many thanks for your time,
                                                        Eugene Klodzen

                                                        **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                                                        products.
                                                        (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      • johnqadam
                                                        ... I m not certain why, but I believe it might have something to do with Ukraine.
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Dec 3, 2007
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          >>> the 1869 Hungarian Census for Vinne is not available, and
                                                          I'm not certain why, but I believe it might have something to do with
                                                          Ukraine. <<<

                                                          BINGO!!!!

                                                          The 1869 Ung Megye Hungarian Census is believed to be in Uzhorod
                                                          Archive, so far lost to genealogy research. However, there is always
                                                          hope!
                                                        • Janet Kozlay
                                                          For Eugene Klodzen, Vladimir s information looks very significant. The old ELTE map of Trencsen megye shows that Rajec(z) is right next to Klacsan, now Klace
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Feb 5, 2008
                                                          • 0 Attachment
                                                            For Eugene Klodzen, Vladimir's information looks very significant. The old
                                                            ELTE map of Trencsen megye shows that Rajec(z) is right next to Klacsan, now
                                                            Klace SK. Old Hungarian spellings also include Kleczen and Kalacsany. Roman
                                                            Catholic church records for Klacsan are with Rajec, which go back all the
                                                            way to 1674.



                                                            Despite the similarity in names, there would appear to be no relation
                                                            between the village of Klacsano near Munkacs and Klacsan in Trencsen.



                                                            Janet





                                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          • gklodzen@aol.com
                                                            Janet, Margo, Vladimir, John and All, Many thanks for this recent information which may open yet another door into the family past, and which I would likely
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Feb 6, 2008
                                                            • 0 Attachment
                                                              Janet, Margo, Vladimir, John and All,

                                                              Many thanks for this recent information which may open yet another door into
                                                              the family past, and which I would likely never have known had I not been a
                                                              member of this group of "generous with their knowledge" family history
                                                              researchers like yourselves. You can be sure that I will be ordering the relevant
                                                              microfilm from the Family History Center.

                                                              As someone said, 'Genealogy becomes rather addictive. No sooner do you find
                                                              one ancestor but you start looking for another even further back in time.' So
                                                              true. But even better then finding just that ancestor is the historical
                                                              perspective that unfolds during the search, the added knowledge of the time and
                                                              place in which the ancestor lived, thus some of which he or she may have
                                                              personally experienced. As one who never knew his grandparents, this research
                                                              odyssey has taught me much about them, ...and myself.

                                                              Many thanks for your help along the way,
                                                              Eugene Klodzen





                                                              In a message dated 2/5/2008 10:04:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                                                              kozlay@... writes:

                                                              For Eugene Klodzen, Vladimir's information looks very significant. The old
                                                              ELTE map of Trencsen megye shows that Rajec(z) is right next to Klacsan, now
                                                              Klace SK. Old Hungarian spellings also include Kleczen and Kalacsany. Roman
                                                              Catholic church records for Klacsan are with Rajec, which go back all the
                                                              way to 1674.

                                                              Despite the similarity in names, there would appear to be no relation
                                                              between the village of Klacsano near Munkacs and Klacsan in Trencsen.

                                                              Janet



                                                              <<Eugene, Vladimir will probably expand on this reply because he is the
                                                              expert. In the meantime, the Urbars are the old feudal tax records which list the
                                                              serf taxpayers. The records from 1770ish are available on microfilm from the
                                                              Family History Centers. In the list of microfilms, they are Urberi tabellak
                                                              1767-1773. The documents are in archaic Slovak and Latin.

                                                              Also, Richard Marsina and Michal Kusik wrote Urbare feudalnych pastiev na
                                                              Slovensku (1959). Vol. 1 deals with the 16th century and Vol. 2 with the 17th
                                                              century. I ordered this on interlibrary loan at my local public library. The
                                                              information presented varies from year to year.

                                                              Rajec near Zilina has a nice little restaurant. But it is also very near
                                                              Rajec Teplice, my favorite spa in all Slovakia. The old building is very ornate.
                                                              There is live music and dancing on summer evenings. And a small bar next to
                                                              the pool serves slivovce.>>

                                                              Margo




                                                              **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
                                                              (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
                                                              48)


                                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                            • gklodzen@aol.com
                                                              Janet, Vladimir and All, To add a little more information with regard to our recent discussion of villages Rajecz, Klacsan and Kladzan: In searching through
                                                              Message 30 of 30 , Feb 7, 2008
                                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                                Janet, Vladimir and All,

                                                                To add a little more information with regard to our recent discussion of
                                                                villages Rajecz, Klacsan and Kladzan:

                                                                In searching through the old Hungarian map, circa 1910:

                                                                _http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg_
                                                                (http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg)

                                                                I've found the old village of Kladzan to be in Zemplin County at these
                                                                coordinates:

                                                                21 degrees, 45 minutes, & 48 degrees, 45 minutes (hope that's the right
                                                                terminology)

                                                                As village Kladzan was considerably closer to present day Vinne then was
                                                                village Klaczan (located in Trencen County) I'm speculating now that perhaps my
                                                                KLADZAN ancestors found in Vinne may have had their origins in village
                                                                Kladzan rather then the more distant village Klacsan. And, as the spelling of
                                                                both the ancestral surname and the village are identical, it seems a likely
                                                                possibility.

                                                                So, next up will be a search of records (church and others) covering years
                                                                prior to 1812, the year of the earliest KLADZAN found in Vinne. Any thoughts
                                                                or suggestions would, as always, be much appreciated.

                                                                Many thanks,
                                                                Eugene Klodzen (researching KLADZAN, PIKULA, HLADKY, LABADA)





                                                                **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
                                                                (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
                                                                48)


                                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.