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Re: [S-R] Mail Order Brides

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  • Jody Gonda
    Thank you Bill! I did know about the naturalization records, but someone told me that this was also true for the ship records - so glad to hear that they were
    Message 1 of 65 , Oct 31, 2007
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      Thank you Bill! I did know about the naturalization records, but someone told me that this was also true for the ship records - so glad to hear that they were wrong!!!
      I'm not a member of ancestry.com, but will continue to search for her ship record then. Hopefully I will find it!

      Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
      This is not true. Every passenger, including children, stow-aways and
      deceased-in-transit were enumerated. Women were never omitted.

      You may be confusing that with naturalization, where in that time only the
      men were naturalized and the wife was automatically naturalized.

      With all due respect, you might not be looking "hard enough". Birth
      dates, ages and spellings were quite often wrong on the manifests.

      Bill

      On Wed, October 31, 2007 10:41 am, Jody Gonda wrote:
      > I am finding the same problem when looking for ancestors, I can never seem
      > to find the name of the females. Someone told me that females when
      > traveling with a husband did not have their name recorded, and also any
      > female traveling under the age of (18?) were not recorded. Anyone know if
      > this is true?
      > I've been trying to find my husband's grandmother, Mary Molnar. Mary
      > was born 1 Mar 1884, in Abaujvar, Hungary - per other records I have on
      > file. She married a Steve Fazekas and Steve came over on the ship
      > H.H.Meir on 29 Apr 1896, when just 17 yrs old. I can't seem to find any
      > record for Mary. :o(
      >
      >
      > Karen Strouhal <adventureseekergal@...> wrote:
      > Maybe they were engaged or already dating when your grandfather
      > left for America to make $ for the passage for your grandmother
      > and to get a house and stuff squared away?
      >
      > That's what happened with my great grandparents, although mine were
      > married with 3 little kids already. Perhaps this was a common thing to
      > do?! My great grandfather was here a couple years before my great
      > grandmother and 3 children made the voyage here in 1921.
      >
      > Did you check the ellisisland.org passenger manifest as Andrea suggests?
      > It's pretty awesome to see your relatives listed, ages, destination, place
      > of origin. It's a major piece of the puzzle.
      >
      > When you look her up on the manifest perhaps on a line above or below her
      > will be a person listed with the same place of origin/destination (or last
      > name?) which will tell you that she wasn't alone in the voyage.
      >
      > Good luck in your query.
      >
      > Karen
      > ----- Original Message ----
      > From: Andrea Vangor <drav@...>
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:12:17 AM
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Mail Order Brides
      >
      > Who was identified in the passenger manifest as her sponsor in America? By
      > 1900 there would have had to be a friend or relative identified, and their
      > address. As to the voyage, she may have travelled with someone from her
      > village or the vicinity. You can check the manifest. If your grandfather
      > was from the same region the couple may have been engaged in Europe. I do
      > think that marriages were sometimes arranged, loosely, by relatives in
      > America if they knew someone who would make a good husband for their niece
      > or cousin in Slovakia. I know of such a story in western WA. A girl came
      > out and was met by a friend of her family who carried her suitcase five
      > miles from the station -- and married her shortly later!
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: tk500
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
      > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 5:56 AM
      > Subject: [S-R] Mail Order Brides
      >
      > My grandmother came over in March, 1900, and three months later she was
      > married to my grandfather who came over a year earlier. She was 19,
      > from Vradtka. I wonder how she made the trip to Bremen by herself, not
      > knowing any language except her own, and where a 19 year old girl would
      > get the money to make the trip.
      >
      > I have her rumors of mail order brides. Any comments!!
      >
      > tim
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Jody
      > __________________________________________________
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      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
      > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >

      --
      Bill Tarkulich
      http://www.iabsi.com






      Jody
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    • Jody Gonda
      Yes, I do have the records - I had scanned them in this computer. Can I send them to you for you to take a look? Having someone to take a look and let me
      Message 65 of 65 , Nov 1, 2007
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        Yes, I do have the records - I had scanned them in this computer. Can I send them to you for you to take a look? Having someone to take a look and let me know what is really said would be sooo helpful!
        And, yes, I did mis-spell Abauj-Torna - sorry!

        Janet Kozlay <kozlay@...> wrote:
        Dear Jody,

        First off, Abaujvar was in Abauj-Torna megye (county), not Abney Torra. See
        http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/vmlista.htm for where the megye was
        located in relation to the country at the time. You can also see a beautiful
        map of the megye itself there. Abaujvar is in the yellow section, north of
        Goncz. Note that Panyok is very close to Abaujvar.

        Second, do you have a copy of Istvan's (no "e") birth record that shows
        Klara Fazekas to be his mother? If so, look at it very carefully. If his
        father's name was Fazekas, his mother would have a different name. So, for
        example, Mary Molnar's parents should be listed as Jozsef Molnar and Maria
        Varga. Likewise, Klara Fazekas's parents were Istvan Fazekas and Elizabeth
        (Erzsebet?) Szabo. The information you give suggests that Klara was not
        married when she gave birth to Istvan, but the church record should indicate
        this. If you did not make a copy of the page for this entry, I suggest you
        go back and do so. And it is important to get the whole page.

        It is greatly to our advantage that married women kept their maiden names.
        Otherwise it would be next to impossible to trace female lines in the
        family.

        It would also be interesting to see the page for the entry of Klara's
        marriage to Bardos. It might give further information as to her status.

        Church records often contain important information that is easily overlooked
        when (1) we look only for names and dates and (2) when we cannot read the
        language. Making a good copy is important, and there are always people more
        than willing to help read and/or translate the other information.

        So far I have come up empty with your manifests. But we have to keep trying.

        Janet

        _____

        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Jody Gonda
        Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 12:20 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] searching manifests, was Mail Order Brides

        First - sorry this is soo long, but wanted to explain what I do have on
        file.
        With my family information that I got from relatives, it made it easier to
        search the films in LDS. Reel 0623962, of the Reformed Church/Abaujvar,
        Abney Torra Hungry, was the best.
        Steve (Istevan) Fazekas's birth record was found - his dob is: 31 Aug 1878.
        The record did list his mother as Klara Fazekas. Even though his dob was off
        by a couple days per family members who told me he always celebrated his
        birthday on Sept. 8th, I knew Klara was his mother from other records I had
        on file from family members.
        I then found Klara Fazekas's birth record of 20 Oct 1857, also of Abaujvar.
        Her parents are listed on the record as Istevan and Elizabeth Szabo Fazekas.
        I found Steve (Istevan) Fazekas's ship record from the Ellis Island site -
        he came to the US
        29 Apr 1896 on the H.H. Meier. This also confirmed family information, as
        Steve's son had 'interviewed' him for a school paper once, so I have his
        history. Steve had said that he was from Abaujvar, an agricultural village
        of about a thousand population, located on the Ernad river in Eastern
        Hungary. He said his family once owned a large amount of land (wealth was
        measured by how much land a man owned). He said his grandfather, was the
        leading man in the village, backed loans made by the bank, but when people
        could not repay the loans he lost most of his holdings. All that was left
        was 6 acres that went to his daughter, Klara, who was Steve's mother. His
        Aunts and Uncles married while his grandfather still had his wealth, so they
        received large parcels of land as wedding gifts. Steve was an infant when
        his father died (I cannot find Steve's father's name!) and his mother, Klara
        remarried soon after to Andrew Bardos on 5 May 1883 (I found this record).
        Steve
        received an education of 6 years of school and then left Abaujvar to work on
        an Uncle's farm in the village of Panjok (sp?). He worked on the farm until
        he left for the US.
        I had heard that his step-father, Andrew Bardos, came to the US a few years
        earlier and so Steve went to Dillonvale, Ohio to meet him. His mother and
        step siblings came a few years after Steve, although I have not been able to
        find their ship records. I have found the step-siblings birth records and
        also Andrew Bardos's death record.
        Molnar's - I have Mary Molnar's birth record - 1 March 1884, and that has
        Joseph and Maria (Varga) Molnar as her parents. I also have her parents
        marriage record, 3 Nov 1880. I have Joseph Molnar's birth record too - 1855.

        So - what I am currently looking for are the ship records for Mary Molnar,
        Andrew Bardos, and his wife, Klara Bardos. I also would like to find Klara
        Bardo's death record - I know she died while in Ohio. Of course, I would
        absolutely love to know the name of Steve Fazekas's father!

        johnqadam <johnqadam@rogers. <mailto:johnqadam%40rogers.com> com> wrote:
        >>> Yes, I have gone to the LDS Ctr., but just haven't been back for a
        couple years now. That's where I was able to find her birth record,
        her parents marriage record, etc. <<<

        Aha! Was your Obaujvar = Abaujvar? Or Obudavar?

        What was the RELIGION? RC, GC or Lutheran/Evangelical? What date of
        birth? What marriage date?

        In church records, the given names were likely shown as Istvan and
        Maria, not Steve and Mary. You found those records.

        Given what you already KNOW, what is the question you need an answer
        to? Are you simply trying to find the Ellis Island entry for Istvan and
        Maria Molnar after they were married in Hungary?

        Jody
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        Jody
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