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Re: [S-R] How common was it for people to lie about their age when immigrating to the US?

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  • helene cincebeaux
    HI BILL - Ny son was born in Braddock PA in 1963 and was one of the first RH babies to be totally transfused - 3 times! He was near death and we were told he
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 12, 2007
      HI BILL -

      Ny son was born in Braddock PA in 1963 and was one of
      the first RH babies to be totally transfused - 3
      times! He was near death and we were told he had an
      emergency baptism in the hospital (a Roman Catholic
      baptism)

      When we went to St. Anselm's, the Slovak Church there,
      the priest refused to baptize him saying he was
      already baptized - he wouldn't even let him be a part
      of the ceremony til we vigorously protested - a lot of
      relatives had come from far away.

      I recall learning at Catholic school that anyone can
      baptize in an emergency and with good intentions.

      helene

      --- Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:

      > Ecclesiastically, it would not be deemed an official
      > sacrament to
      > "baptize" someone unless you were an ordained
      > minister or priest. Even in
      > emergency situations this is disallowed. Catholic
      > doctrine allows for you
      > to transcend to purgatory, kind of a limbo period
      > until judgement day. I
      > find it highly unlikely a midwife could baptize; the
      > church did not even
      > allow for female priests. How that holds in
      > Orthodoxy or Protestantism, I
      > do not know.
      >
      > Bear also in mind that the priest often ministered
      > to multiple villages,
      > with one record book. Imagine a cold snowy night,
      > getting back home,
      > recording the next day the details. I've also seen
      > details degrade as the
      > priest aged.
      >
      > On Wed, September 12, 2007 7:47 pm, J Michutka
      > wrote:
      > > Hi Michael,
      > >
      > >
      > > On Sep 12, 2007, at 5:45 PM, Michael Mojher wrote:
      > >
      > >> Another consideration about birth and
      > baptismal dates being the
      > >> same. ...
      > >
      > > In this particular village, the amount of
      > information in the records
      > > varies from one time period to another. In some
      > time periods, both
      > > dates are recorded, and baptisms appear to be
      > anywhere from day of
      > > birth to three days later, usually one or two days
      > after birth. I
      > > suppose it could be that the priest who recorded
      > only one date also
      > > had a thing for baptizing babies on the day of
      > birth, but it's kinda
      > > hard to believe that every single baby over the
      > course of years made
      > > it to the baptismal font on the day of birth. (I
      > ran across one set
      > > of baptismal records in another village where the
      > fathers' names were
      > > recorded, but no mothers' names; doesn't mean
      > there weren't any
      > > mothers, or that the mothers had the same first
      > names as the
      > > fathers. Just indicates what information the
      > priest felt was
      > > important to record.)
      > >
      > > I do see occasional records where the midwife
      > baptized the baby, so
      > > apparently it wasn't expected to live even long
      > enough to call the
      > > priest.
      > >>
      > >> The films of the records I viewed often
      > contained both the
      > >> civil and church set. I was amazed that I never
      > found a discrepancy
      > >> between the two. I can't confirm or deny your
      > statement about the
      > >> information being transcribed later into the
      > official records from
      > >> another piece of paper. I would think the priest
      > would make an
      > >> entry into the church record first; since they
      > had that at the
      > >> rectory.
      > >
      > > What, you've never procrastinated in writing
      > something down? ;)
      > >
      > > My reasons for suspecting occasional errors due to
      > transcribing
      > > several entries at once are that sometimes the
      > handwriting is just so
      > > uniform on the whole page, that *maybe* it was all
      > written at once;
      > > esp. suspicious if other pages by the same hand
      > show the little
      > > variations that occur when we write at different
      > times. And I have
      > > come across entries that I know (sometimes I can't
      > prove, but I very
      > > strongly suspect) to have errors, although I think
      > in some cases the
      > > scribe (the priest?) is transcribing from memory,
      > eg he writes the
      > > wrong name for the mother of the bride, sometimes
      > because there are
      > > two young women with the same name in the village,
      > or there is
      > > another man in the village with the same name as
      > the father of the
      > > bride; and so the wrong mother of the bride is
      > written into the
      > > marriage record. I just had an instance while
      > working on someone
      > > else's genealogy, two girls born a week apart were
      > given the same
      > > first and last name (whose bright idea was
      > that?!), and when one of
      > > them married Matus, she was noted as the daughter
      > of Joannes, but in
      > > the register of households (ordinarily a wonderful
      > source of info)
      > > the marriage (groom's name and date) was recorded
      > for the other girl
      > > in the other household, daughter of Georgius. It
      > was impossible for
      > > both records to be correct. For various reasons I
      > think the marriage
      > > record in that case is more likely to be accurate
      > than the register
      > > of households, so that was what I went with, and
      > wrote up the details
      > > of the discrepancy in my notes.
      > >
      > > Mostly the records do seem to be accurate; I just
      > want people to
      > > realize they need to be cautious and never assume
      > that even good
      > > records are 100% accurate. The more familiar you
      > become with your
      > > family tree and with your village(s) records, the
      > better you know how
      > > to interpret the information you find.
      > >
      > > I'm probably devoting more words to this than it
      > merits; but perhaps
      > > someone will find it informative.
      > >
      > > Julie Michutka
      > > jmm@...
      > >
      > >
      > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
      > >
      > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
      > -or- send blank email to
      > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > --
      > Bill Tarkulich
      > http://www.iabsi.com
      >
      >




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