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Mysterious Village Names

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  • sandramtingle
    I have been searching for the past year for my grandparent s birthplaces and I have just recently obtained their naturalization papers. Their last residence
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 11, 2007
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      I have been searching for the past year for my grandparent's
      birthplaces and I have just recently obtained their naturalization
      papers. Their last residence before immigrating to the USA
      was "Kozarovic, Austria Hungary". I did some searching and believe
      this is a village located in Croatia, with a slightly different
      spelling. My grandfather, Ignatz Kindler, lists his birthplace
      as "Naggutar, Austria Hungary" and my grandmother Mary (Buday) Kindler
      lists her birthplace as "Paterhit, Austria, Hungary".

      If anyone has any info they can share about these locations it would be
      so appreciated!


      Sandra (Kindler, Buday/Budai)
    • Bill Tarkulich
      Here is some info: Kozarovic There is a KOZAREVAC in Belovar-Koros County, Hungary. a.k.a., Kozarevac, Kozarevecz. Naggutar Perhaps NAGYGUT in former Bereg
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 11, 2007
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        Here is some info:

        Kozarovic
        There is a KOZAREVAC in Belovar-Koros County, Hungary.
        a.k.a., Kozarevac, Kozarevecz.

        Naggutar
        Perhaps NAGYGUT in former Bereg County, Tiszahati district, known nowdays as
        Velika Harazgyivka, Ukraine.

        Paterhit
        Have you been through ellisisland.org or stevemorse? You should.
        I found:
        Budai, Mary from Petenihalyja/Hungry, immigrated to US 1922. Ethnic
        Hungarian
        This is PETOMIHALYFA, old VAS county. Today, Peo-Mihalyfa, Hungary.
        This is her birthplace and last residence. Age 26, occupation, tailor.

        There is also:
        Kindler Budai, Marya Kozarewcu, Hungary
        Born 1880, arrived, 1911
        Residence is incorrectly spelled "Kozarewcu, Hungary" by the transcribers.
        Went to brother Juraj in Milwaukee. Birthplace, Residence is Kozarevac.
        Mother Katarina Budai.

        I'll leave the rest to you. I'm out of time!
        Good Luck,

        Bill


        -----Original Message-----
        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of sandramtingle
        Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 7:42 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [S-R] Mysterious Village Names

        I have been searching for the past year for my grandparent's
        birthplaces and I have just recently obtained their naturalization
        papers. Their last residence before immigrating to the USA
        was "Kozarovic, Austria Hungary". I did some searching and believe
        this is a village located in Croatia, with a slightly different
        spelling. My grandfather, Ignatz Kindler, lists his birthplace
        as "Naggutar, Austria Hungary" and my grandmother Mary (Buday) Kindler
        lists her birthplace as "Paterhit, Austria, Hungary".

        If anyone has any info they can share about these locations it would be
        so appreciated!


        Sandra (Kindler, Buday/Budai)



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      • Michael Mojher
        Sandra, I ran your village names through the Fuzzy Gazetteer search. There were no direct hits. Kozarovic had close hits. Kozarovce, Slovakia, Kozarovice,
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 11, 2007
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          Sandra,
          I ran your village names through the Fuzzy Gazetteer search. There were no direct hits.
          Kozarovic had close hits. Kozarovce, Slovakia, Kozarovice, Czech Republic, Kozarovici and Kozarovica, Bosnia- Herzegovina.
          Naggutar had one in Eastern Europe, Hagybutas, Hungary.
          Paterhit, also one, Paterin, Czech Republic.
          All this proves is that there are no villages by the exact spellings existing today. It would have been nice if there were.
          Michael Mojher
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: sandramtingle
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 4:41 PM
          Subject: [S-R] Mysterious Village Names


          I have been searching for the past year for my grandparent's
          birthplaces and I have just recently obtained their naturalization
          papers. Their last residence before immigrating to the USA
          was "Kozarovic, Austria Hungary". I did some searching and believe
          this is a village located in Croatia, with a slightly different
          spelling. My grandfather, Ignatz Kindler, lists his birthplace
          as "Naggutar, Austria Hungary" and my grandmother Mary (Buday) Kindler
          lists her birthplace as "Paterhit, Austria, Hungary".

          If anyone has any info they can share about these locations it would be
          so appreciated!

          Sandra (Kindler, Buday/Budai)





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • johnqadam
          ... was Kozarovic, Austria Hungary . . . . My grandfather, Ignatz Kindler, lists his birthplace as Naggutar, Austria Hungary and my grandmother Mary
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 11, 2007
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            >>> Their last residence before immigrating to the USA
            was "Kozarovic, Austria Hungary". . . . My grandfather, Ignatz
            Kindler, lists his birthplace as "Naggutar, Austria Hungary" and my
            grandmother Mary (Buday) Kindler lists her birthplace as "Paterhit,
            Austria, Hungary". <<<

            ELLIS ISLAND LISTINGS
            I use the Morse front end, Gold Form, for researching Ellis Island
            entries. http://www.stevemorse.org/

            You can use just a few letters for the name or village and check off
            several language choices, eg: Hungarian, Slovak, Ruthenian. Be aware
            that transcription errors abound and so you should always look at the
            manifest, which often has two pages.

            Marya Kindler Budai ar Dec 05, 1911, age 31, b 1880, 11-269932 –
            10/2/40 Croatian, etc. Shown as speakinbg Croatian.

            Hungary, Belovár-Körös, Kozarevac = Croatia, Kozarevac

            LDS has Roman Catholic congregation at Kozarevac, Belovár-Körös,
            Hungary; now Kozarevac, Croatia.

            Given that information, we are searching for a nearby village which
            is described as Naggutar.

            I would start with the church records.

            CHURCH RECORDS AT LATTER DAY SAINTS (MORMON) LDS FAMILY HISTORY
            CENTER (FHC)
            When searching for genealogical information, knowing the birth
            village is paramount because records are organized by village not
            nationally, so it is not possible to search on a national basis. It
            is also necessary to know the religion. To locate church records for
            Slovakia, knowing the village/town name, go to the LDS web site:
            www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp The church
            records cover baptisms (krsteni), marriages (sobeseni) and deaths
            (zomreli).

            LOCATE YOUR NEAREST FAMILY HISTORY CENTER AND ORDER FILM
            You can go to the LDS web site to locate your nearest Family History
            Center (FHC) and determine their hours of operation. You will need to
            go there in person to order the film(s). In about a month, the film
            will arrive and you can book a film reader and begin your research.

            Good luck.
          • david1law@aol.com
            Hi Sandra: While researching your inquiry, I came across your earlier posting on ROOTSWEB and the answer of ZLATICABECA. I also looked at the naturalization
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 11, 2007
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              Hi Sandra:

              While researching your inquiry, I came across your earlier posting on
              ROOTSWEB and the answer of ZLATICABECA. I also looked at the naturalization
              documents that you posted on ROOTSWEB. I believe that ZLATICA's answer puts you on
              the right track, that NAGGUTER is NAGYATAD. The second naturalization
              document has it as NAGY UTTAR. ZLATICA's point about English transcribers hearing a
              different language may make an error in transcription is certainly a very
              good possibility.

              In ZLATICA's answer, she mentions another document that you had referenced
              on RADIXFORUM, and ERDOCSOKONYA in SOMOGY COUNTY, HUNGARY. This appears to be
              part of and/or associated with CSOKONYAVISONTA on a map. This is very near
              NAGYATAD (about two villages away) and there is also another village called
              KADARKUT about two villages away. This KADARKUT could possibly be your PATERHIT
              (the second naturalization document lists PATERHUT). With a hard initial
              consonant, an English=speaking transcriber may well transcribe the wrong initial
              letter. There is also a village a little bit farther west called PETERANEC
              which is another possibility for PATERHIT. Your reference to KOZAROVIC is
              very likely KOZAREVAC (Please be away that there are a number of places in
              CROATIA and BOSNIA-HERZEGOVINA with this name and other similar names). This
              KOZAREVAC is east of BJELOVAR on a map, and about two villages east of
              ERDOCSOKONYA (CSOKONYAVISONTA) and south of NAGYATAD. You will see that these
              villages form a loose cluster on a map, so I believe that ZLATICA's reference to
              NAGYATAD is right on track.

              I trust ZLATICA's judgment very much. She helped me to find the ancestral
              village (STARY SMOKOVEC in the SPIS region of SLOVAKIA) of my paternal
              grandmother after I searched on my own for a very, very long time and came up empty.
              I had searched in another area of the SPIS where my grandparents had lived,
              and my grandmother had been born quite a distance away but still in the same
              region. ZLATICA is an angel and I know she has helped many others find
              their way when they were lost.

              I hope this helps.

              Best regards,

              David



              ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Janet Kozlay
              I think you are on the right track. There is an immigration record for Kindler Budai, Marya in 1911. Her birth was about 1880. She was widowed and was
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 11, 2007
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                I think you are on the right track. There is an immigration record for
                "Kindler Budai, Marya" in 1911. Her birth was about 1880. She was widowed
                and was heading to her brother, Juro Budai, in Milwaukee. She came from
                "Kozarewcu," which is most likely Kozarevac, Croatia. Her mother, Katarina
                Budai of Kozarewcu, was her closest relative.



                Kozarevac was in old Belovar-Koros megye (county). Peterhida is not far from
                there, across the border into Hungary in Somogy megye.



                Roman Catholic records are available through LDS for Kozarevac. Peterhida
                has almost no records. They might be located in Babocsa, or Barcs, which is
                a little further away.



                "Naggutar" remains a mystery. There are lots of places that begin with Nagy,
                but I don't see anything close.



                I hope this is your family.



                Janet





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Janet Kozlay
                Not only is Nagyatad in Somogy, it is not that far north of Peterhida, which in my view is the best guess for Paterhit. That places all three locations in the
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 12, 2007
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                  Not only is Nagyatad in Somogy, it is not that far north of Peterhida, which
                  in my view is the best guess for Paterhit. That places all three locations
                  in the same general area (along with Kozarevac), as do David's alternate
                  suggestions. The only way you will be able to unravel your mystery is to
                  look at each of these villages until you find your family. When family
                  members are found somewhat spread out, as these seem to be, there are
                  usually clues in the church records that will point to other locations.



                  Janet



                  _____

                  From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of david1law@...
                  Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 8:30 PM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Mysterious Village Names



                  Hi Sandra:

                  While researching your inquiry, I came across your earlier posting on
                  ROOTSWEB and the answer of ZLATICABECA. I also looked at the naturalization
                  documents that you posted on ROOTSWEB. I believe that ZLATICA's answer puts
                  you on
                  the right track, that NAGGUTER is NAGYATAD. The second naturalization
                  document has it as NAGY UTTAR. ZLATICA's point about English transcribers
                  hearing a
                  different language may make an error in transcription is certainly a very
                  good possibility.

                  In ZLATICA's answer, she mentions another document that you had referenced
                  on RADIXFORUM, and ERDOCSOKONYA in SOMOGY COUNTY, HUNGARY. This appears to
                  be
                  part of and/or associated with CSOKONYAVISONTA on a map. This is very near
                  NAGYATAD (about two villages away) and there is also another village called
                  KADARKUT about two villages away. This KADARKUT could possibly be your
                  PATERHIT
                  (the second naturalization document lists PATERHUT). With a hard initial
                  consonant, an English=speaking transcriber may well transcribe the wrong
                  initial
                  letter. There is also a village a little bit farther west called PETERANEC
                  which is another possibility for PATERHIT. Your reference to KOZAROVIC is
                  very likely KOZAREVAC (Please be away that there are a number of places in
                  CROATIA and BOSNIA-HERZEGOVINA with this name and other similar names). This

                  KOZAREVAC is east of BJELOVAR on a map, and about two villages east of
                  ERDOCSOKONYA (CSOKONYAVISONTA) and south of NAGYATAD. You will see that
                  these
                  villages form a loose cluster on a map, so I believe that ZLATICA's
                  reference to
                  NAGYATAD is right on track.

                  I trust ZLATICA's judgment very much. She helped me to find the ancestral
                  village (STARY SMOKOVEC in the SPIS region of SLOVAKIA) of my paternal
                  grandmother after I searched on my own for a very, very long time and came
                  up empty.
                  I had searched in another area of the SPIS where my grandparents had lived,
                  and my grandmother had been born quite a distance away but still in the same

                  region. ZLATICA is an angel and I know she has helped many others find
                  their way when they were lost.

                  I hope this helps.

                  Best regards,

                  David

                  ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol
                  <http://www.aol.com> com

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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