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RE: [S-R] Re: [S-R Name Changes

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  • Bill Tarkulich
    Remember, the 1715 census was a TAX census. Only property holders (not their families) were enumerated. The first modern census, when they counted everyone
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 4, 2007
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      Remember, the 1715 census was a TAX census. Only property holders (not
      their families) were enumerated. The first "modern" census, when they
      counted everyone did not occur until 1869.


      Bill


      -----Original Message-----
      From: jump4toys@... [mailto:jump4toys@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 3:11 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: [S-R Name Changes


      Dear David and Bill,

      thanks for your great information. I have a few questions.

      That census in 1715 Hungarian Urbarial Census...where can you view the
      names
      in that Census?

      Also....I heard a story that my family who are from Svalyava (carpathian
      Mountains area) acquired their land after 1865, which I was told was after
      the
      Astria/Hungarians took over the area. I heard the land was given out to
      people who were willing to work and build on the land, like sharecroppers.
      So if my family indeed received the land in 1865, where would I see the
      records of this acquiring of the land?
      Or where would I see any tax records after 1865 on the land.

      As for names...while my family name is Wachtenheim, I did find that there
      is
      a Vachtenheim also with a "v" which I know was from the alternate spelling
      of
      the name. All the Wachtenheims I found so far come from a small clustering

      of villages. I don't understand why I keep finding them in the Carpathian
      mountain area, and it seems they might have come from north in Poland, but I

      can't find any records in Poland? Any reason why not?

      I think that if names were indeed given out to even the peasants...there
      would have been a reason for that. So there must have been a record in
      land,
      marriage, birth?

      Thanks!
      DAniel




      Hi Daniel:

      You raise a very fascinating and very intriguing inquiry regarding the
      etymology of surnames. There are some suffixes -- such as the -SKI suffix
      in
      Polish and the -SKY suffix in Slovak that indicate a place of origin and
      literally mean "OF _________" or "from the land of ___________" such as
      KRAKOWKSI
      which literally means "OF KRAKOW" or DOBSINSKY which literally means "OF
      DOBSINA." In Hungarian, the -I suffix (sometimes -Y) also means "of" or
      "from."
      These are clear examples of surnames indicating a place of origin. Some
      other
      suffixes (particularly some diminutives and possessives) are less clear and

      may possibly indicate a place of origin. For example, the -OV suffix in
      TOMASOV literally means "belonging to Tomas (the Slovak equivalent of
      Thomas)" and
      has several potential meanings -- the person had an ancestor named TOMAS,
      the person originated from a place named TOMASOV such as SPISSKE TOMASOV,
      etc.
      My paternal grandparents surnames BALOGA and HRONEC are both indicative of

      places of origin, BALOGA literally meaning "of Balog" and ultimately
      leading
      back to the BALOG river region in Gemer, and HRONEC essentially meaning
      "man/person of HRON" and referring to the HRON river in central Slovakia to

      the
      west and north of Gemer.

      I generally agree with Bill's comments about the origin of surnames. Some
      surnames were indicative of an occupation, some surnames were indicative of

      a
      personal characteristic, some surnames were indicative of an ancestor's
      personal name, and a number of surnames are indicative of an ancestor's
      place of
      origin, etc. Other surnames are indicative of an ethnicity (TOTH meaning
      "Slavic" in Hungarian, NEMEC meaning "German" in Slovak, TUREK meaning
      'Turk" in
      Slovak, SWEDA meaning "Swedish" in Slovak). As Bill correctly points out,
      there can be a number of alternative spellings to a surname because people
      would often spell them phonetically as they heard the name pronounced. In
      tracking my main surname BALOGA (BALOG/BALOGH) in my own family, I've been
      able to
      confirm through the church records over a dozen variants in spellings where

      the alternative spelling was confirmed by other evidence in the records --
      same wife's name, same house number, etc. In researching surnames, I have
      found
      that over time certain folk etymologies often take the place of a surname's

      true etymology. In other words, if something gets repeated often enough, it

      often takes an a hollow ring of truth.

      While I generally agree with Bill's excellent observations, there is one
      comment that Bill made about peasants not being "important enough to worry
      about
      tracking" that needs further clarification. I believe that the lack of
      records is more likely the result of a lack of written literacy among all
      social
      classes, and not indicative of any opinion of any social class as I have
      found
      over several years of research that even the records of the nobles are
      haphazard at best. The reason for this is that apart from the Roman
      Catholic
      church records of births, deaths, and marriages which were only uniformly
      documented after the decree from the Council of Trent in 1543, the
      overwhelming
      majority of old records in the archives are either property records, tax
      records,
      or court records over property disputes, particularly the latter (and these

      documents were written mostly in Latin as it was the official language of
      correspondence until the late 1700's). Very few historical documents were
      commemorations in and of themselves. Most commemorations occurred with the
      context of records relating to a dispute over property, where a reference
      may be
      made to a person's past valor in battle, etc. As Bill insightfully points
      outs, the genealogy of a person was generally only given in property
      disputes to
      prove title to real property, and in many of these cases, it was often
      family
      disputes between different branches of a larger family clan.

      The surname WACHTENHEIM is comprised of two elements -- WACHTEN generally
      meaning "guard" or "watchman" and "HEIM" meaning "home." If you do some
      further research, even on GOOGLE, you may find some very interesting
      aspects/twists
      on the name and/or meaning of the name. Generally, most of the German words

      used in the territory of Slovakia were derived from Old High German (the
      German dialects spoken in the "high" mountains before 1050 A.D.) and Middle

      High
      German (the German dialects spoken in the "high" mountains between 1050
      A.D.
      and 1350 AD). Since the 11th century, Saxons immigrated to the territory of

      Slovakia, particularly to the Gemer region and subsequently to the Spis
      region. There was a particularly large concentration of German people in
      the
      Spis
      region (similar to Transylvania which was also settled by Saxons), and the
      SAKSA surname meaning "Saxon" is found in the Spis region, as I discovered
      the
      same among the surnames of godparents in my family.

      In terms of researching any part of the territory which was formerly part
      of
      the kingdom of Hungarian, the best source for older records (apart from
      birth, death, marriage, and military) would probably be ARCANUM (literally
      "the
      archives") which can be accessed through Bill Tarkulich's excellent website

      at
      _www.iabsi.com_ (_http://www.iabsi.htt_ (http://www.iabsi.com/) ) .
      Sometimes, you find something in
      the archives about a particular surname, especially in the 1715 Hungarian
      Urbarial Census. In many instances, I have found that certain surnames
      appearing
      in a village in the 19th century also existed in the same or nearby village

      in the 1715 Hungarian Urbarial Census. I wish you well in your research
      endeavors.

      Best regards,

      David









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    • jump4toys@aol.com
      Where can I access the 1869 census? Is it listed by name? Alphabetical order? DAniel Remember, the 1715 census was a TAX census. Only property holders (not
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 4, 2007
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        Where can I access the 1869 census?
        Is it listed by name? Alphabetical order?

        DAniel




        Remember, the 1715 census was a TAX census. Only property holders (not
        their families) were enumerated. The first "modern" census, when they
        counted everyone did not occur until 1869.

        Bill









        ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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