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Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Introduction

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  • Richard D. Custer
    Hi Anita, Cigel ka and Kurov are in northeast Slovakia northwest of the town of Bardejov. Kurov is just north of the Topl a River, and Cigel ka lies way north
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 6, 2000
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      Hi Anita,

      Cigel'ka and Kurov are in northeast Slovakia northwest of the town of
      Bardejov. Kurov is just north of the Topl'a River, and Cigel'ka lies way
      north adjacent to the Slovakia/Poland border. They are both inhabited
      almost entirely by Rusyns [not Slovaks!], one of the main ethno-national
      minorities in Slovakia. The religion of these people is either
      Byzantine/Greek Catholic or Eastern Orthodox.

      >I do have Eva MESARC's parents names. They are Timothy MESARC and Sophia
      >VANIK. It is believed that Timothy MESARC's parents had the last names of
      >MESARC and ZACATANSKY. That is all the information I have on them.

      Timothy's surname would more accurately be Mesarc~ -- that is, the last
      letter is pronounced like "ch" in "church". His mother's surname would more
      accurately be Zakutjanskyj -- in old Hungarian-language documents, the name
      would probably appear as Zakutyanszky. In Slovakia today the name would
      probably be written Zakut'ansky.

      >My mother, who is still living, can speak and read/write some Slovak, so
      she
      >translated what documents we do have.

      If she learned the language from her parents, she does not read or write
      Slovak, but Rusyn. If she learned it in her Greek Catholic church in the
      USA, she would not have learned Slovak; the "Greek School" or "Russian
      School" as they were called basically taught Russian or a Russian-influenced
      Rusyn. The use and teaching of Slovak in these churches was completely
      unheard of.

      Here is some statistical data which may help you see the ethnic/religious
      context of these villages.

      Incidentally (well, that depends...), the people of "Cigel'ka" call the
      village Cigolka in their own language.

      (from 1930 Census of Czechoslovakia)

      village: Cigolka, okres Bardejov

      Total Population: 525

      NATIONALITY

      Czechoslovak: 36 citizens
      Rusyn: 434 citizens
      Germans: 0 citizens
      Hungarians: 2 citizens
      Jews: 8 citizens
      Others: 33 citizens
      Foreigners: 12 citizens

      RELIGION

      Roman Catholic: 41 citizens
      Greek Catholic: 472 citizens
      Protestant: 0 citizens
      Orthodox: 0 citizens
      Hebrew: 12 citizens
      Other: 0 citizens

      The people of "Kurov" call the village Kuriv in their own language. Today
      they have a well-known folk ensemble in the village, called "Kurivc~an"
      which performs every year at the Rusyn/Ukrainian folk festivals in Svidnik,
      Kamienka, and others.

      (from 1930 Census of Czechoslovakia)

      village: Kuriv, okres Bardejov

      Total Population: 603

      NATIONALITY

      Czechoslovak: 37 citizens
      Rusyn: 552 citizens
      Germans: 0 citizens
      Hungarians: 0 citizens
      Jews: 4 citizens
      Others: 8 citizens
      Foreigners: 2 citizens

      RELIGION

      Roman Catholic: 56 citizens
      Greek Catholic: 528 citizens
      Protestant: 3 citizens
      Orthodox: 0 citizens
      Hebrew: 11 citizens
      Other: 5 citizens

      This map segment shows the area around Cigolka/Cigel'ka and Kuriv/Kurov -
      just a few km away:
      http://lemko.org/maps100/Pages/Pg70.html

      Records from Cigel'ka and Kurov are available from the LDS Family History
      centers; the film numbers and information is here:
      http://www.carpatho-rusyn.org/films2.htm

      More information on Rusyns is at http://www.carpatho-rusyn.org ,
      http://www.carpatho-rusyn.org/crs (the Carpatho-Rusyn Society, which would
      probably open up a whole new world for you on its own), etc. Also, a great
      map & excellent books at http://www.carpatho-rusyn.org/crrc include the
      indispensible & essential reference, _Our People: Carpatho-Rusyns and Their
      Descendants in North America_ by Paul R. Magocsi.

      Good luck!

      Rich Custer
    • jallen50
      Andrea: Is there a master of any of these vocabulary sheets anywhere on the web? My grandmother was determined to learn and improve her English...and only
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 6, 2000
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        Andrea: Is there a master of any of these "vocabulary sheets" anywhere on
        the web? My grandmother was determined to learn and improve her
        English...and only taught me very few Slovak words... I regret now that we
        didn't do more of a trade...an English lesson for a Slovak lesson!

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Andrea Vangor [mailto:drav@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 6:00 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com
        Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Introduction


        In a nutshell, the Byzantine (so called in the U.S.) or Greek (so called in
        Slovakia) Catholics were formerly part of the Orthodox faith, separated from
        Rome. They reunited with Rome several hundred years ago. When you search
        old church records, therefore, you will be looking in Greek Catholic parish
        records. I, on the other hand, have primarily Lutheran Slovak ancestors,
        and have been searching in Lutheran church records. The next step is to see
        if you can do this the "easy way" first. Go to www.familysearch.org -- the
        web site for the Family History Library run by the LDS. If you enter your
        people's home towns in the appropriate box, it should pull up the films
        available for them. If not, we have to go to step two. That involves (1)
        figuring out what the Hungarian names for these places were, prior to 1920;
        and (2) finding where the Greek Catholic records for that town or village
        are to be found. There is a special microfiche with this information that
        is usually available at your local Family History Center.

        For example, my people came from C~akanovce, but the Lutheran church records
        for that village are located in the nearby village of Rankovce, presumably
        where the Lutheran church was. I discovered this from an old family
        document. You might look through your material to see if there is a stamp
        or official seal of some kind with the name of a town on it, or anything
        else that tells where the actual church office was.

        The end result of all this effort is that, for $3.75, you can send away for
        a microfilm of those church records that will contain all the baptisms,
        marriages, and deaths -- confirmations too for Catholics. Sometimes you
        need more than one film. I found a ton of relatives going back to 1755, in
        about four microfilms. The films usually end around 1895 because the Slovak
        government did not allow the LDS to photocopy past that point, which was a
        hundred years ago at the time, for privacy reasons. The films contain
        information written by the parish priest or minister. These are photocopies
        of the actual books in which the priest or minister recorded the baptisms,
        marriages, etc. on a daily basis. Up to 1840 or so they are written in
        Latin, usually, and after 1840 in Hungarian, the official language at that
        time. Some of my data was written in Slovak dialect and some in Czech
        because that is what the minister used. When you get your film in, you will
        need some vocabulary sheets to help you translate the entries.


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Brecosky <brecosky@...>
        To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 2:45 PM
        Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Introduction


        > Andrea:
        >
        > We are Byzantine Catholic. Or at least the generations that were/are here
        > were Byzantine. My mother tells me that a lot of the Greek Catholics and
        > Byzantine became members of Roman Catholic churches here in the states
        > because there weren't many Byzantine around. I'm still not sure of the
        > different between Byzantine/Greek/Orthodox.
        >
        > I know nothing about getting the information through LDS. Last night was
        > the first time I started looking on the web for information. My husband
        > bought me a belated Mother's Day gift of the software Generations
        Millenium.
        > I put in my information (what little I have) into it yesterday, and then
        > started looking around. I saw some links to LDS, but haven't gotten that
        > far yet. Any information or help you can provide would be greatly
        > appreciated.
        >
        > Anita B. (who has a sister named Andrea!)
        >
        >
        > > Welcome, Anita. You have a lot going for you, including a mother who
        > speaks
        > > Slovak! Do you know anything about getting church records through the
        > > Family History Libraries run by the LDS church? We'd be happy to
        explain
        > > the process. First, you need to determine what religion your people
        were.
        > >
        > > Andrea
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > beMANY! has a new way to save big on your phone bill -- and keep on
        > saving more each month: Our huge buying group gives you Long Distance
        > rates which fall monthly, plus an extra $60 in FREE calls!
        > http://click.egroups.com/1/3821/0/_/545880/_/960327744/
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        >


        ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Old school buds here:
        http://click.egroups.com/1/4057/0/_/545880/_/960329171/
        ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      • Andrea Vangor
        No, they are scattered here and there. A lot of us print them out and shlep them around with us. I printed three different Hungarian genealogical word lists
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 6, 2000
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          No, they are scattered here and there. A lot of us print them out and shlep
          them around with us. I printed three different Hungarian genealogical word
          lists and still use an on-line dictionary to figure things out.

          If others can't jump in, post me privately and I will look around for some
          materials for you -- but not today because I am working against a deadline!



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: jallen50 <JALLEN50@...>
          To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 4:36 PM
          Subject: RE: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Introduction


          Andrea: Is there a master of any of these "vocabulary sheets" anywhere on
          the web? My grandmother was determined to learn and improve her
          English...and only taught me very few Slovak words... I regret now that we
          didn't do more of a trade...an English lesson for a Slovak lesson!

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Andrea Vangor [mailto:drav@...]
          Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 6:00 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com
          Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Introduction


          In a nutshell, the Byzantine (so called in the U.S.) or Greek (so called in
          Slovakia) Catholics were formerly part of the Orthodox faith, separated from
          Rome. They reunited with Rome several hundred years ago. When you search
          old church records, therefore, you will be looking in Greek Catholic parish
          records. I, on the other hand, have primarily Lutheran Slovak ancestors,
          and have been searching in Lutheran church records. The next step is to see
          if you can do this the "easy way" first. Go to www.familysearch.org -- the
          web site for the Family History Library run by the LDS. If you enter your
          people's home towns in the appropriate box, it should pull up the films
          available for them. If not, we have to go to step two. That involves (1)
          figuring out what the Hungarian names for these places were, prior to 1920;
          and (2) finding where the Greek Catholic records for that town or village
          are to be found. There is a special microfiche with this information that
          is usually available at your local Family History Center.

          For example, my people came from C~akanovce, but the Lutheran church records
          for that village are located in the nearby village of Rankovce, presumably
          where the Lutheran church was. I discovered this from an old family
          document. You might look through your material to see if there is a stamp
          or official seal of some kind with the name of a town on it, or anything
          else that tells where the actual church office was.

          The end result of all this effort is that, for $3.75, you can send away for
          a microfilm of those church records that will contain all the baptisms,
          marriages, and deaths -- confirmations too for Catholics. Sometimes you
          need more than one film. I found a ton of relatives going back to 1755, in
          about four microfilms. The films usually end around 1895 because the Slovak
          government did not allow the LDS to photocopy past that point, which was a
          hundred years ago at the time, for privacy reasons. The films contain
          information written by the parish priest or minister. These are photocopies
          of the actual books in which the priest or minister recorded the baptisms,
          marriages, etc. on a daily basis. Up to 1840 or so they are written in
          Latin, usually, and after 1840 in Hungarian, the official language at that
          time. Some of my data was written in Slovak dialect and some in Czech
          because that is what the minister used. When you get your film in, you will
          need some vocabulary sheets to help you translate the entries.


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Brecosky <brecosky@...>
          To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 2:45 PM
          Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Introduction


          > Andrea:
          >
          > We are Byzantine Catholic. Or at least the generations that were/are here
          > were Byzantine. My mother tells me that a lot of the Greek Catholics and
          > Byzantine became members of Roman Catholic churches here in the states
          > because there weren't many Byzantine around. I'm still not sure of the
          > different between Byzantine/Greek/Orthodox.
          >
          > I know nothing about getting the information through LDS. Last night was
          > the first time I started looking on the web for information. My husband
          > bought me a belated Mother's Day gift of the software Generations
          Millenium.
          > I put in my information (what little I have) into it yesterday, and then
          > started looking around. I saw some links to LDS, but haven't gotten that
          > far yet. Any information or help you can provide would be greatly
          > appreciated.
          >
          > Anita B. (who has a sister named Andrea!)
          >
          >
          > > Welcome, Anita. You have a lot going for you, including a mother who
          > speaks
          > > Slovak! Do you know anything about getting church records through the
          > > Family History Libraries run by the LDS church? We'd be happy to
          explain
          > > the process. First, you need to determine what religion your people
          were.
          > >
          > > Andrea
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > beMANY! has a new way to save big on your phone bill -- and keep on
          > saving more each month: Our huge buying group gives you Long Distance
          > rates which fall monthly, plus an extra $60 in FREE calls!
          > http://click.egroups.com/1/3821/0/_/545880/_/960327744/
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          >


          ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Old school buds here:
          http://click.egroups.com/1/4057/0/_/545880/_/960329171/
          ------------------------------------------------------------------------




          ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          How about a flat, no-fee long distance rate of 6.7¢ per min. -
          or less? Join beMANY! Our huge buying group gives you rates which
          fall monthly, plus an extra $60 in FREE calls!
          http://click.egroups.com/1/3820/0/_/545880/_/960334805/
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        • jallen50
          Thanks, Andrea! I can use any help I can get! I ve learned a lot from Slovak-Roots. I m so glad one of your other members told me about all of you! I really
          Message 4 of 13 , Jun 6, 2000
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            Thanks, Andrea! I can use any help I can get! I've learned a lot from
            Slovak-Roots. I'm so glad one of your other members told me about all of
            you! I really was afraid when I started tracing my family that I would not
            be able to get anywhere...the language barrier for one thing! You've helped
            me to see it is quite possible that I will be able to get info from
            Slovakia, but that I may actually be able to find family that was left
            behind!
            JuneA

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Andrea Vangor [mailto:drav@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 7:40 PM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com
            Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Introduction


            No, they are scattered here and there. A lot of us print them out and shlep
            them around with us. I printed three different Hungarian genealogical word
            lists and still use an on-line dictionary to figure things out.

            If others can't jump in, post me privately and I will look around for some
            materials for you -- but not today because I am working against a deadline!



            ----- Original Message -----
            From: jallen50 <JALLEN50@...>
            To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 4:36 PM
            Subject: RE: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Introduction


            Andrea: Is there a master of any of these "vocabulary sheets" anywhere on
            the web? My grandmother was determined to learn and improve her
            English...and only taught me very few Slovak words... I regret now that we
            didn't do more of a trade...an English lesson for a Slovak lesson!

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Andrea Vangor [mailto:drav@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 6:00 PM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com
            Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Introduction


            In a nutshell, the Byzantine (so called in the U.S.) or Greek (so called in
            Slovakia) Catholics were formerly part of the Orthodox faith, separated from
            Rome. They reunited with Rome several hundred years ago. When you search
            old church records, therefore, you will be looking in Greek Catholic parish
            records. I, on the other hand, have primarily Lutheran Slovak ancestors,
            and have been searching in Lutheran church records. The next step is to see
            if you can do this the "easy way" first. Go to www.familysearch.org -- the
            web site for the Family History Library run by the LDS. If you enter your
            people's home towns in the appropriate box, it should pull up the films
            available for them. If not, we have to go to step two. That involves (1)
            figuring out what the Hungarian names for these places were, prior to 1920;
            and (2) finding where the Greek Catholic records for that town or village
            are to be found. There is a special microfiche with this information that
            is usually available at your local Family History Center.

            For example, my people came from C~akanovce, but the Lutheran church records
            for that village are located in the nearby village of Rankovce, presumably
            where the Lutheran church was. I discovered this from an old family
            document. You might look through your material to see if there is a stamp
            or official seal of some kind with the name of a town on it, or anything
            else that tells where the actual church office was.

            The end result of all this effort is that, for $3.75, you can send away for
            a microfilm of those church records that will contain all the baptisms,
            marriages, and deaths -- confirmations too for Catholics. Sometimes you
            need more than one film. I found a ton of relatives going back to 1755, in
            about four microfilms. The films usually end around 1895 because the Slovak
            government did not allow the LDS to photocopy past that point, which was a
            hundred years ago at the time, for privacy reasons. The films contain
            information written by the parish priest or minister. These are photocopies
            of the actual books in which the priest or minister recorded the baptisms,
            marriages, etc. on a daily basis. Up to 1840 or so they are written in
            Latin, usually, and after 1840 in Hungarian, the official language at that
            time. Some of my data was written in Slovak dialect and some in Czech
            because that is what the minister used. When you get your film in, you will
            need some vocabulary sheets to help you translate the entries.


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Brecosky <brecosky@...>
            To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 2:45 PM
            Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Introduction


            > Andrea:
            >
            > We are Byzantine Catholic. Or at least the generations that were/are here
            > were Byzantine. My mother tells me that a lot of the Greek Catholics and
            > Byzantine became members of Roman Catholic churches here in the states
            > because there weren't many Byzantine around. I'm still not sure of the
            > different between Byzantine/Greek/Orthodox.
            >
            > I know nothing about getting the information through LDS. Last night was
            > the first time I started looking on the web for information. My husband
            > bought me a belated Mother's Day gift of the software Generations
            Millenium.
            > I put in my information (what little I have) into it yesterday, and then
            > started looking around. I saw some links to LDS, but haven't gotten that
            > far yet. Any information or help you can provide would be greatly
            > appreciated.
            >
            > Anita B. (who has a sister named Andrea!)
            >
            >
            > > Welcome, Anita. You have a lot going for you, including a mother who
            > speaks
            > > Slovak! Do you know anything about getting church records through the
            > > Family History Libraries run by the LDS church? We'd be happy to
            explain
            > > the process. First, you need to determine what religion your people
            were.
            > >
            > > Andrea
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > beMANY! has a new way to save big on your phone bill -- and keep on
            > saving more each month: Our huge buying group gives you Long Distance
            > rates which fall monthly, plus an extra $60 in FREE calls!
            > http://click.egroups.com/1/3821/0/_/545880/_/960327744/
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >
            >


            ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Old school buds here:
            http://click.egroups.com/1/4057/0/_/545880/_/960329171/
            ------------------------------------------------------------------------




            ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            How about a flat, no-fee long distance rate of 6.7¢ per min. -
            or less? Join beMANY! Our huge buying group gives you rates which
            fall monthly, plus an extra $60 in FREE calls!
            http://click.egroups.com/1/3820/0/_/545880/_/960334805/
            ------------------------------------------------------------------------




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          • Brecosky
            Rich: I would never have imagined (even in my wildest dreams) that someone would come along and be so very, very helpful to me in researching my family tree. I
            Message 5 of 13 , Jun 6, 2000
            • 0 Attachment
              Rich:

              I would never have imagined (even in my wildest dreams) that someone would
              come along and be so very, very helpful to me in researching my family tree.
              I don't know how to thank you enough for all the information you have given
              me in just one post! THANK YOU! (Gee, I hope no one thinks that's someone's
              surname...LOL!)

              I will print your entire post and read it to my mother tomorrow when I see
              her. I am going to see if I can get some decent print outs of the maps you
              suggested.

              Again, thank you so very much.

              Anita B.
            • Richard D. Custer
              Wow, Anita -- you re making me blush! Really, I have a lot of data here & it is my pleasure to help. (You may detect some agenda on my part, mostly it s to
              Message 6 of 13 , Jun 6, 2000
              • 0 Attachment
                Wow, Anita -- you're making me blush!

                Really, I have a lot of data here & it is my pleasure to help. (You may
                detect some agenda on my part, mostly it's to educate people about who
                Rusyns are since so many of our people in the USA have only a vague
                understanding of their origin & ethnic background.) You will find that
                Rusyns (or whatever name they prefer -- you will see how many there are) are
                certainly a "colorful" group, just the name issues alone will keep you
                hopping.

                By the way, were your maternal immigrant ancestors (grandparents?) living in
                Pittsburgh? I think there were people from Cigolka in south side, St.
                John's Byz. Cath. Church, and I think some on north side (Holy Ghost
                B.C.C./St. John's Carpatho-Russian Orthodox churches). I think also down in
                New Salem near Uniontown -- there were definitely Zakutansky's there. Kuriv
                people I'd guess would be on south side too, but the largest # in PA I know
                of lived in Cambria County: South Fork & Beaverdale -- between Johnstown &
                Altoona.

                Best wishes to you -- I'd be glad to help if you have other questions.

                Rich Custer

                p.s. to get an idea about the Rusyn/Rusin/Carpatho-Russian, etc. "name
                game", try this article:
                http://lemko.org/lih/slivka.html
                Who are we? Rusin, Russian, Ruthenian, Slovak? by Father John Slivka (1977)

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Brecosky <brecosky@...>
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
                Date: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 10:05 PM
                Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Introduction


                >Rich:
                >
                >I would never have imagined (even in my wildest dreams) that someone would
                >come along and be so very, very helpful to me in researching my family
                tree.
                >I don't know how to thank you enough for all the information you have given
                >me in just one post! THANK YOU! (Gee, I hope no one thinks that's
                someone's
                >surname...LOL!)
                >
                >I will print your entire post and read it to my mother tomorrow when I see
                >her. I am going to see if I can get some decent print outs of the maps you
                >suggested.
                >
                >Again, thank you so very much.
                >
                >Anita B.
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