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Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Introduction

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  • John
    ... In my case, the records for my mother s village were in Cyrillic only during the period from about 1847 to 1856. Before and after that they were in
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 6, 2000
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      At 06:27 PM 6/6/00 -0400, you wrote:
      >If your records are from a Greek Catholic village they will be written
      >in Ruszyn using the Cyrillic alphabet. After 1840 or so they were
      >written in Hungarian.
      >Happy Hunting!
      >
      >mark

      In my case, the records for my mother's village were in Cyrillic only
      during the period from about 1847 to 1856. Before and after that they were
      in Hungarian but since there is a known format, and glossaries available
      for Hungarian terms used in the church registries, it isn't that daunting
      of a task. I do have to admit the cursive Cyrillic entries are challenging
      but with practice and a Cyrillic cursive and printed alphabet most can be
      made out. The notes, if any, can also be a challenge.

      Janko
    • Richard D. Custer
      Hi Anita, Cigel ka and Kurov are in northeast Slovakia northwest of the town of Bardejov. Kurov is just north of the Topl a River, and Cigel ka lies way north
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 6, 2000
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        Hi Anita,

        Cigel'ka and Kurov are in northeast Slovakia northwest of the town of
        Bardejov. Kurov is just north of the Topl'a River, and Cigel'ka lies way
        north adjacent to the Slovakia/Poland border. They are both inhabited
        almost entirely by Rusyns [not Slovaks!], one of the main ethno-national
        minorities in Slovakia. The religion of these people is either
        Byzantine/Greek Catholic or Eastern Orthodox.

        >I do have Eva MESARC's parents names. They are Timothy MESARC and Sophia
        >VANIK. It is believed that Timothy MESARC's parents had the last names of
        >MESARC and ZACATANSKY. That is all the information I have on them.

        Timothy's surname would more accurately be Mesarc~ -- that is, the last
        letter is pronounced like "ch" in "church". His mother's surname would more
        accurately be Zakutjanskyj -- in old Hungarian-language documents, the name
        would probably appear as Zakutyanszky. In Slovakia today the name would
        probably be written Zakut'ansky.

        >My mother, who is still living, can speak and read/write some Slovak, so
        she
        >translated what documents we do have.

        If she learned the language from her parents, she does not read or write
        Slovak, but Rusyn. If she learned it in her Greek Catholic church in the
        USA, she would not have learned Slovak; the "Greek School" or "Russian
        School" as they were called basically taught Russian or a Russian-influenced
        Rusyn. The use and teaching of Slovak in these churches was completely
        unheard of.

        Here is some statistical data which may help you see the ethnic/religious
        context of these villages.

        Incidentally (well, that depends...), the people of "Cigel'ka" call the
        village Cigolka in their own language.

        (from 1930 Census of Czechoslovakia)

        village: Cigolka, okres Bardejov

        Total Population: 525

        NATIONALITY

        Czechoslovak: 36 citizens
        Rusyn: 434 citizens
        Germans: 0 citizens
        Hungarians: 2 citizens
        Jews: 8 citizens
        Others: 33 citizens
        Foreigners: 12 citizens

        RELIGION

        Roman Catholic: 41 citizens
        Greek Catholic: 472 citizens
        Protestant: 0 citizens
        Orthodox: 0 citizens
        Hebrew: 12 citizens
        Other: 0 citizens

        The people of "Kurov" call the village Kuriv in their own language. Today
        they have a well-known folk ensemble in the village, called "Kurivc~an"
        which performs every year at the Rusyn/Ukrainian folk festivals in Svidnik,
        Kamienka, and others.

        (from 1930 Census of Czechoslovakia)

        village: Kuriv, okres Bardejov

        Total Population: 603

        NATIONALITY

        Czechoslovak: 37 citizens
        Rusyn: 552 citizens
        Germans: 0 citizens
        Hungarians: 0 citizens
        Jews: 4 citizens
        Others: 8 citizens
        Foreigners: 2 citizens

        RELIGION

        Roman Catholic: 56 citizens
        Greek Catholic: 528 citizens
        Protestant: 3 citizens
        Orthodox: 0 citizens
        Hebrew: 11 citizens
        Other: 5 citizens

        This map segment shows the area around Cigolka/Cigel'ka and Kuriv/Kurov -
        just a few km away:
        http://lemko.org/maps100/Pages/Pg70.html

        Records from Cigel'ka and Kurov are available from the LDS Family History
        centers; the film numbers and information is here:
        http://www.carpatho-rusyn.org/films2.htm

        More information on Rusyns is at http://www.carpatho-rusyn.org ,
        http://www.carpatho-rusyn.org/crs (the Carpatho-Rusyn Society, which would
        probably open up a whole new world for you on its own), etc. Also, a great
        map & excellent books at http://www.carpatho-rusyn.org/crrc include the
        indispensible & essential reference, _Our People: Carpatho-Rusyns and Their
        Descendants in North America_ by Paul R. Magocsi.

        Good luck!

        Rich Custer
      • jallen50
        Andrea: Is there a master of any of these vocabulary sheets anywhere on the web? My grandmother was determined to learn and improve her English...and only
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 6, 2000
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          Andrea: Is there a master of any of these "vocabulary sheets" anywhere on
          the web? My grandmother was determined to learn and improve her
          English...and only taught me very few Slovak words... I regret now that we
          didn't do more of a trade...an English lesson for a Slovak lesson!

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Andrea Vangor [mailto:drav@...]
          Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 6:00 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com
          Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Introduction


          In a nutshell, the Byzantine (so called in the U.S.) or Greek (so called in
          Slovakia) Catholics were formerly part of the Orthodox faith, separated from
          Rome. They reunited with Rome several hundred years ago. When you search
          old church records, therefore, you will be looking in Greek Catholic parish
          records. I, on the other hand, have primarily Lutheran Slovak ancestors,
          and have been searching in Lutheran church records. The next step is to see
          if you can do this the "easy way" first. Go to www.familysearch.org -- the
          web site for the Family History Library run by the LDS. If you enter your
          people's home towns in the appropriate box, it should pull up the films
          available for them. If not, we have to go to step two. That involves (1)
          figuring out what the Hungarian names for these places were, prior to 1920;
          and (2) finding where the Greek Catholic records for that town or village
          are to be found. There is a special microfiche with this information that
          is usually available at your local Family History Center.

          For example, my people came from C~akanovce, but the Lutheran church records
          for that village are located in the nearby village of Rankovce, presumably
          where the Lutheran church was. I discovered this from an old family
          document. You might look through your material to see if there is a stamp
          or official seal of some kind with the name of a town on it, or anything
          else that tells where the actual church office was.

          The end result of all this effort is that, for $3.75, you can send away for
          a microfilm of those church records that will contain all the baptisms,
          marriages, and deaths -- confirmations too for Catholics. Sometimes you
          need more than one film. I found a ton of relatives going back to 1755, in
          about four microfilms. The films usually end around 1895 because the Slovak
          government did not allow the LDS to photocopy past that point, which was a
          hundred years ago at the time, for privacy reasons. The films contain
          information written by the parish priest or minister. These are photocopies
          of the actual books in which the priest or minister recorded the baptisms,
          marriages, etc. on a daily basis. Up to 1840 or so they are written in
          Latin, usually, and after 1840 in Hungarian, the official language at that
          time. Some of my data was written in Slovak dialect and some in Czech
          because that is what the minister used. When you get your film in, you will
          need some vocabulary sheets to help you translate the entries.


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Brecosky <brecosky@...>
          To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 2:45 PM
          Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Introduction


          > Andrea:
          >
          > We are Byzantine Catholic. Or at least the generations that were/are here
          > were Byzantine. My mother tells me that a lot of the Greek Catholics and
          > Byzantine became members of Roman Catholic churches here in the states
          > because there weren't many Byzantine around. I'm still not sure of the
          > different between Byzantine/Greek/Orthodox.
          >
          > I know nothing about getting the information through LDS. Last night was
          > the first time I started looking on the web for information. My husband
          > bought me a belated Mother's Day gift of the software Generations
          Millenium.
          > I put in my information (what little I have) into it yesterday, and then
          > started looking around. I saw some links to LDS, but haven't gotten that
          > far yet. Any information or help you can provide would be greatly
          > appreciated.
          >
          > Anita B. (who has a sister named Andrea!)
          >
          >
          > > Welcome, Anita. You have a lot going for you, including a mother who
          > speaks
          > > Slovak! Do you know anything about getting church records through the
          > > Family History Libraries run by the LDS church? We'd be happy to
          explain
          > > the process. First, you need to determine what religion your people
          were.
          > >
          > > Andrea
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > beMANY! has a new way to save big on your phone bill -- and keep on
          > saving more each month: Our huge buying group gives you Long Distance
          > rates which fall monthly, plus an extra $60 in FREE calls!
          > http://click.egroups.com/1/3821/0/_/545880/_/960327744/
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          >


          ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Old school buds here:
          http://click.egroups.com/1/4057/0/_/545880/_/960329171/
          ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        • Andrea Vangor
          No, they are scattered here and there. A lot of us print them out and shlep them around with us. I printed three different Hungarian genealogical word lists
          Message 4 of 13 , Jun 6, 2000
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            No, they are scattered here and there. A lot of us print them out and shlep
            them around with us. I printed three different Hungarian genealogical word
            lists and still use an on-line dictionary to figure things out.

            If others can't jump in, post me privately and I will look around for some
            materials for you -- but not today because I am working against a deadline!



            ----- Original Message -----
            From: jallen50 <JALLEN50@...>
            To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 4:36 PM
            Subject: RE: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Introduction


            Andrea: Is there a master of any of these "vocabulary sheets" anywhere on
            the web? My grandmother was determined to learn and improve her
            English...and only taught me very few Slovak words... I regret now that we
            didn't do more of a trade...an English lesson for a Slovak lesson!

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Andrea Vangor [mailto:drav@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 6:00 PM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com
            Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Introduction


            In a nutshell, the Byzantine (so called in the U.S.) or Greek (so called in
            Slovakia) Catholics were formerly part of the Orthodox faith, separated from
            Rome. They reunited with Rome several hundred years ago. When you search
            old church records, therefore, you will be looking in Greek Catholic parish
            records. I, on the other hand, have primarily Lutheran Slovak ancestors,
            and have been searching in Lutheran church records. The next step is to see
            if you can do this the "easy way" first. Go to www.familysearch.org -- the
            web site for the Family History Library run by the LDS. If you enter your
            people's home towns in the appropriate box, it should pull up the films
            available for them. If not, we have to go to step two. That involves (1)
            figuring out what the Hungarian names for these places were, prior to 1920;
            and (2) finding where the Greek Catholic records for that town or village
            are to be found. There is a special microfiche with this information that
            is usually available at your local Family History Center.

            For example, my people came from C~akanovce, but the Lutheran church records
            for that village are located in the nearby village of Rankovce, presumably
            where the Lutheran church was. I discovered this from an old family
            document. You might look through your material to see if there is a stamp
            or official seal of some kind with the name of a town on it, or anything
            else that tells where the actual church office was.

            The end result of all this effort is that, for $3.75, you can send away for
            a microfilm of those church records that will contain all the baptisms,
            marriages, and deaths -- confirmations too for Catholics. Sometimes you
            need more than one film. I found a ton of relatives going back to 1755, in
            about four microfilms. The films usually end around 1895 because the Slovak
            government did not allow the LDS to photocopy past that point, which was a
            hundred years ago at the time, for privacy reasons. The films contain
            information written by the parish priest or minister. These are photocopies
            of the actual books in which the priest or minister recorded the baptisms,
            marriages, etc. on a daily basis. Up to 1840 or so they are written in
            Latin, usually, and after 1840 in Hungarian, the official language at that
            time. Some of my data was written in Slovak dialect and some in Czech
            because that is what the minister used. When you get your film in, you will
            need some vocabulary sheets to help you translate the entries.


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Brecosky <brecosky@...>
            To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 2:45 PM
            Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Introduction


            > Andrea:
            >
            > We are Byzantine Catholic. Or at least the generations that were/are here
            > were Byzantine. My mother tells me that a lot of the Greek Catholics and
            > Byzantine became members of Roman Catholic churches here in the states
            > because there weren't many Byzantine around. I'm still not sure of the
            > different between Byzantine/Greek/Orthodox.
            >
            > I know nothing about getting the information through LDS. Last night was
            > the first time I started looking on the web for information. My husband
            > bought me a belated Mother's Day gift of the software Generations
            Millenium.
            > I put in my information (what little I have) into it yesterday, and then
            > started looking around. I saw some links to LDS, but haven't gotten that
            > far yet. Any information or help you can provide would be greatly
            > appreciated.
            >
            > Anita B. (who has a sister named Andrea!)
            >
            >
            > > Welcome, Anita. You have a lot going for you, including a mother who
            > speaks
            > > Slovak! Do you know anything about getting church records through the
            > > Family History Libraries run by the LDS church? We'd be happy to
            explain
            > > the process. First, you need to determine what religion your people
            were.
            > >
            > > Andrea
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > beMANY! has a new way to save big on your phone bill -- and keep on
            > saving more each month: Our huge buying group gives you Long Distance
            > rates which fall monthly, plus an extra $60 in FREE calls!
            > http://click.egroups.com/1/3821/0/_/545880/_/960327744/
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >
            >


            ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Old school buds here:
            http://click.egroups.com/1/4057/0/_/545880/_/960329171/
            ------------------------------------------------------------------------




            ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            How about a flat, no-fee long distance rate of 6.7¢ per min. -
            or less? Join beMANY! Our huge buying group gives you rates which
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          • jallen50
            Thanks, Andrea! I can use any help I can get! I ve learned a lot from Slovak-Roots. I m so glad one of your other members told me about all of you! I really
            Message 5 of 13 , Jun 6, 2000
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              Thanks, Andrea! I can use any help I can get! I've learned a lot from
              Slovak-Roots. I'm so glad one of your other members told me about all of
              you! I really was afraid when I started tracing my family that I would not
              be able to get anywhere...the language barrier for one thing! You've helped
              me to see it is quite possible that I will be able to get info from
              Slovakia, but that I may actually be able to find family that was left
              behind!
              JuneA

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Andrea Vangor [mailto:drav@...]
              Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 7:40 PM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com
              Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Introduction


              No, they are scattered here and there. A lot of us print them out and shlep
              them around with us. I printed three different Hungarian genealogical word
              lists and still use an on-line dictionary to figure things out.

              If others can't jump in, post me privately and I will look around for some
              materials for you -- but not today because I am working against a deadline!



              ----- Original Message -----
              From: jallen50 <JALLEN50@...>
              To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 4:36 PM
              Subject: RE: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Introduction


              Andrea: Is there a master of any of these "vocabulary sheets" anywhere on
              the web? My grandmother was determined to learn and improve her
              English...and only taught me very few Slovak words... I regret now that we
              didn't do more of a trade...an English lesson for a Slovak lesson!

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Andrea Vangor [mailto:drav@...]
              Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 6:00 PM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com
              Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Introduction


              In a nutshell, the Byzantine (so called in the U.S.) or Greek (so called in
              Slovakia) Catholics were formerly part of the Orthodox faith, separated from
              Rome. They reunited with Rome several hundred years ago. When you search
              old church records, therefore, you will be looking in Greek Catholic parish
              records. I, on the other hand, have primarily Lutheran Slovak ancestors,
              and have been searching in Lutheran church records. The next step is to see
              if you can do this the "easy way" first. Go to www.familysearch.org -- the
              web site for the Family History Library run by the LDS. If you enter your
              people's home towns in the appropriate box, it should pull up the films
              available for them. If not, we have to go to step two. That involves (1)
              figuring out what the Hungarian names for these places were, prior to 1920;
              and (2) finding where the Greek Catholic records for that town or village
              are to be found. There is a special microfiche with this information that
              is usually available at your local Family History Center.

              For example, my people came from C~akanovce, but the Lutheran church records
              for that village are located in the nearby village of Rankovce, presumably
              where the Lutheran church was. I discovered this from an old family
              document. You might look through your material to see if there is a stamp
              or official seal of some kind with the name of a town on it, or anything
              else that tells where the actual church office was.

              The end result of all this effort is that, for $3.75, you can send away for
              a microfilm of those church records that will contain all the baptisms,
              marriages, and deaths -- confirmations too for Catholics. Sometimes you
              need more than one film. I found a ton of relatives going back to 1755, in
              about four microfilms. The films usually end around 1895 because the Slovak
              government did not allow the LDS to photocopy past that point, which was a
              hundred years ago at the time, for privacy reasons. The films contain
              information written by the parish priest or minister. These are photocopies
              of the actual books in which the priest or minister recorded the baptisms,
              marriages, etc. on a daily basis. Up to 1840 or so they are written in
              Latin, usually, and after 1840 in Hungarian, the official language at that
              time. Some of my data was written in Slovak dialect and some in Czech
              because that is what the minister used. When you get your film in, you will
              need some vocabulary sheets to help you translate the entries.


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Brecosky <brecosky@...>
              To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 2:45 PM
              Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Introduction


              > Andrea:
              >
              > We are Byzantine Catholic. Or at least the generations that were/are here
              > were Byzantine. My mother tells me that a lot of the Greek Catholics and
              > Byzantine became members of Roman Catholic churches here in the states
              > because there weren't many Byzantine around. I'm still not sure of the
              > different between Byzantine/Greek/Orthodox.
              >
              > I know nothing about getting the information through LDS. Last night was
              > the first time I started looking on the web for information. My husband
              > bought me a belated Mother's Day gift of the software Generations
              Millenium.
              > I put in my information (what little I have) into it yesterday, and then
              > started looking around. I saw some links to LDS, but haven't gotten that
              > far yet. Any information or help you can provide would be greatly
              > appreciated.
              >
              > Anita B. (who has a sister named Andrea!)
              >
              >
              > > Welcome, Anita. You have a lot going for you, including a mother who
              > speaks
              > > Slovak! Do you know anything about getting church records through the
              > > Family History Libraries run by the LDS church? We'd be happy to
              explain
              > > the process. First, you need to determine what religion your people
              were.
              > >
              > > Andrea
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > beMANY! has a new way to save big on your phone bill -- and keep on
              > saving more each month: Our huge buying group gives you Long Distance
              > rates which fall monthly, plus an extra $60 in FREE calls!
              > http://click.egroups.com/1/3821/0/_/545880/_/960327744/
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >
              >


              ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Old school buds here:
              http://click.egroups.com/1/4057/0/_/545880/_/960329171/
              ------------------------------------------------------------------------




              ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              How about a flat, no-fee long distance rate of 6.7¢ per min. -
              or less? Join beMANY! Our huge buying group gives you rates which
              fall monthly, plus an extra $60 in FREE calls!
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            • Brecosky
              Rich: I would never have imagined (even in my wildest dreams) that someone would come along and be so very, very helpful to me in researching my family tree. I
              Message 6 of 13 , Jun 6, 2000
              • 0 Attachment
                Rich:

                I would never have imagined (even in my wildest dreams) that someone would
                come along and be so very, very helpful to me in researching my family tree.
                I don't know how to thank you enough for all the information you have given
                me in just one post! THANK YOU! (Gee, I hope no one thinks that's someone's
                surname...LOL!)

                I will print your entire post and read it to my mother tomorrow when I see
                her. I am going to see if I can get some decent print outs of the maps you
                suggested.

                Again, thank you so very much.

                Anita B.
              • Richard D. Custer
                Wow, Anita -- you re making me blush! Really, I have a lot of data here & it is my pleasure to help. (You may detect some agenda on my part, mostly it s to
                Message 7 of 13 , Jun 6, 2000
                • 0 Attachment
                  Wow, Anita -- you're making me blush!

                  Really, I have a lot of data here & it is my pleasure to help. (You may
                  detect some agenda on my part, mostly it's to educate people about who
                  Rusyns are since so many of our people in the USA have only a vague
                  understanding of their origin & ethnic background.) You will find that
                  Rusyns (or whatever name they prefer -- you will see how many there are) are
                  certainly a "colorful" group, just the name issues alone will keep you
                  hopping.

                  By the way, were your maternal immigrant ancestors (grandparents?) living in
                  Pittsburgh? I think there were people from Cigolka in south side, St.
                  John's Byz. Cath. Church, and I think some on north side (Holy Ghost
                  B.C.C./St. John's Carpatho-Russian Orthodox churches). I think also down in
                  New Salem near Uniontown -- there were definitely Zakutansky's there. Kuriv
                  people I'd guess would be on south side too, but the largest # in PA I know
                  of lived in Cambria County: South Fork & Beaverdale -- between Johnstown &
                  Altoona.

                  Best wishes to you -- I'd be glad to help if you have other questions.

                  Rich Custer

                  p.s. to get an idea about the Rusyn/Rusin/Carpatho-Russian, etc. "name
                  game", try this article:
                  http://lemko.org/lih/slivka.html
                  Who are we? Rusin, Russian, Ruthenian, Slovak? by Father John Slivka (1977)

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Brecosky <brecosky@...>
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com <SLOVAK-ROOTS@egroups.com>
                  Date: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 10:05 PM
                  Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Introduction


                  >Rich:
                  >
                  >I would never have imagined (even in my wildest dreams) that someone would
                  >come along and be so very, very helpful to me in researching my family
                  tree.
                  >I don't know how to thank you enough for all the information you have given
                  >me in just one post! THANK YOU! (Gee, I hope no one thinks that's
                  someone's
                  >surname...LOL!)
                  >
                  >I will print your entire post and read it to my mother tomorrow when I see
                  >her. I am going to see if I can get some decent print outs of the maps you
                  >suggested.
                  >
                  >Again, thank you so very much.
                  >
                  >Anita B.
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