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Re: Extent of Ottoman Empire in Upper Hungary (Slovakia)

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  • amiak27
    Bob, I did a quick Google search using their images function (above the search bar) and came up with http://historicaltextarchive.com/hungary/hutor1.gif
    Message 1 of 24 , May 6, 2007
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      Bob,

      I did a quick Google search using their "images" function (above the
      search bar) and came up with
      http://historicaltextarchive.com/hungary/hutor1.gif

      among other results. In reading history, I have run across no
      specific maps down to the village level, nor for the similar Hungarian
      occupation of southern Slovakia in 1939 (other than one I failed to
      photograph in the Budapest Ethnographic Museum). So I believe you
      will have to sort out the history from specifics of your local area.
      There is no easy answer, in other words.

      Remember also that even with the limits of Turkish occupation, the
      northern and eastern parts of Slovakia were fortified to fight off
      Turkish incursions into Northern Hungary (Slovakia). Thus the Spis
      castle was reinforced & expanded at that time to provide better
      protection from Turkish raids.

      Invariably all Turks and Hungarians I have met outside of Slovakia are
      great people.

      One last hint. I have found that with most internet graphics I can
      copy the image with a right click & insert it into a photo program
      (Irfanview is great) and can enlarge it to make it easier to read and
      comprehend. I just redid the image above from 618 pixels wide to 1200
      wide, and while not perfectly clear, I can locate known Slovak towns.
      This map seems to confirm what Vlad said, the Turks were only in the
      southern reaches of Slovakia.

      Ron

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "fernbrough" <rmom@...> wrote:
      >
      > Are there any maps that show the extent the Ottoman Empire extended in
      > current day eastern Slovakia in the 1600's?
      >
      > I am specifically interested in seeing a map(s) at village level.
      >
      > My relatives came from Raslavice (Saros), Mala Vieska (Saros)and
      > Komarany (Zemplin).
      >
      > Thanks in advance.
      >
      > Bob S.
      >
    • Michael Mojher
      An article in Spectacular Slovakia said in 1663 the Ottoman s controlled Nita, Nove Zamky and Levice, only for one year. ... From: helene cincebeaux To:
      Message 2 of 24 , May 6, 2007
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        An article in Spectacular Slovakia said in 1663 the Ottoman's controlled Nita, Nove Zamky and Levice, only for one year.
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: helene cincebeaux
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 11:24 AM
        Subject: RE: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in Upper Hungary (Slovakia)


        Interesting - i read somewhere that they came up the
        rivers into Moravia and Slovakia - would be curious to
        know which rivers and how far up - some were in
        eastern Slovakia I recall.

        helene

        --- konekta@... wrote:

        > No Turks there. They took only the southern belt of
        > present Slovakia.
        > Vladimir
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
        > Behalf Of fernbrough
        > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 5:20 PM
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in Upper
        > Hungary (Slovakia)
        >
        >
        >
        > Are there any maps that show the extent the Ottoman
        > Empire extended in
        > current day eastern Slovakia in the 1600's?
        >
        > I am specifically interested in seeing a map(s) at
        > village level.
        >
        > My relatives came from Raslavice (Saros), Mala
        > Vieska (Saros)and
        > Komarany (Zemplin).
        >
        > Thanks in advance.
        >
        > Bob S.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
        > removed]
        >
        >

        __________________________________________________________
        Bored stiff? Loosen up...
        Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
        http://games.yahoo.com/games/front




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • helene cincebeaux
        Have you seen Karel Plicka s photograph of women in Levice - they look totally oriental - maybe it was the earlier incursion of Tatars that casued this However
        Message 3 of 24 , May 6, 2007
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          Have you seen Karel Plicka's photograph of women in
          Levice - they look totally oriental - maybe it was the
          earlier incursion of Tatars that casued this

          However I seem to recall that that area was occupied
          by the Turks much longer than a year - more like
          decades.

          But this is only an impression - nice to get more info
          on something that is hard to research in English.
          thanks to all

          helene

          --- Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:

          > An article in Spectacular Slovakia said in 1663 the
          > Ottoman's controlled Nita, Nove Zamky and Levice,
          > only for one year.
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: helene cincebeaux
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 11:24 AM
          > Subject: RE: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in
          > Upper Hungary (Slovakia)
          >
          >
          > Interesting - i read somewhere that they came up
          > the
          > rivers into Moravia and Slovakia - would be
          > curious to
          > know which rivers and how far up - some were in
          > eastern Slovakia I recall.
          >
          > helene
          >
          > --- konekta@... wrote:
          >
          > > No Turks there. They took only the southern belt
          > of
          > > present Slovakia.
          > > Vladimir
          > >
          > > _____
          > >
          > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          > > Behalf Of fernbrough
          > > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 5:20 PM
          > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in Upper
          > > Hungary (Slovakia)
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Are there any maps that show the extent the
          > Ottoman
          > > Empire extended in
          > > current day eastern Slovakia in the 1600's?
          > >
          > > I am specifically interested in seeing a map(s)
          > at
          > > village level.
          > >
          > > My relatives came from Raslavice (Saros), Mala
          > > Vieska (Saros)and
          > > Komarany (Zemplin).
          > >
          > > Thanks in advance.
          > >
          > > Bob S.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
          > > removed]
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          __________________________________________________________
          > Bored stiff? Loosen up...
          > Download and play hundreds of games for free on
          > Yahoo! Games.
          > http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
          > removed]
          >
          >




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        • Janet Kozlay
          The Ottoman Empire extended over much of Hungary for 150 years or so, but there were continuous wars that constantly shifted the borders. Read Gardonyi s
          Message 4 of 24 , May 6, 2007
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            The Ottoman Empire extended over much of Hungary for 150 years or so, but
            there were continuous wars that constantly shifted the borders. Read
            Gardonyi's Eclipse of the Crescent Moon about the attack on the fortress at
            Eger when the Turks tried to extend their dominion. Between 50,000 and
            200,000 Turks (estimates vary) were defeated by 2000 defenders at Eger. It
            is a very exciting tale based on history. But 30 years later the Turks
            returned and Eger finally fell. At the height of the Ottoman Empire, Eger
            was included, near its northernmost border.



            Janet



            _____

            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of helene cincebeaux
            Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 5:40 PM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in Upper Hungary (Slovakia)



            Have you seen Karel Plicka's photograph of women in
            Levice - they look totally oriental - maybe it was the
            earlier incursion of Tatars that casued this

            However I seem to recall that that area was occupied
            by the Turks much longer than a year - more like
            decades.

            But this is only an impression - nice to get more info
            on something that is hard to research in English.
            thanks to all

            helene

            --- Michael Mojher <mgmojher@comcast. <mailto:mgmojher%40comcast.net> net>
            wrote:

            > An article in Spectacular Slovakia said in 1663 the
            > Ottoman's controlled Nita, Nove Zamky and Levice,
            > only for one year.
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: helene cincebeaux
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 11:24 AM
            > Subject: RE: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in
            > Upper Hungary (Slovakia)
            >
            >
            > Interesting - i read somewhere that they came up
            > the
            > rivers into Moravia and Slovakia - would be
            > curious to
            > know which rivers and how far up - some were in
            > eastern Slovakia I recall.
            >
            > helene
            >
            > --- konekta@.... <mailto:konekta%40nm.psg.sk> sk wrote:
            >
            > > No Turks there. They took only the southern belt
            > of
            > > present Slovakia.
            > > Vladimir
            > >
            > > _____
            > >
            > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
            yahoogroups.com
            > > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
            yahoogroups.com] On
            > > Behalf Of fernbrough
            > > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 5:20 PM
            > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
            yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in Upper
            > > Hungary (Slovakia)
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Are there any maps that show the extent the
            > Ottoman
            > > Empire extended in
            > > current day eastern Slovakia in the 1600's?
            > >
            > > I am specifically interested in seeing a map(s)
            > at
            > > village level.
            > >
            > > My relatives came from Raslavice (Saros), Mala
            > > Vieska (Saros)and
            > > Komarany (Zemplin).
            > >
            > > Thanks in advance.
            > >
            > > Bob S.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
            > > removed]
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            __________________________________________________________
            > Bored stiff? Loosen up...
            > Download and play hundreds of games for free on
            > Yahoo! Games.
            > http://games. <http://games.yahoo.com/games/front> yahoo.com/games/front
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
            > removed]
            >
            >

            __________________________________________________________
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Michael Mojher
            Helene, In the 1200 s a people called the Cumani joined forces with the Hungarian Empire to make a stand against Genghis Khan. Genghis Khan died before
            Message 5 of 24 , May 6, 2007
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              Helene,
              In the 1200's a people called the Cumani joined forces with the Hungarian Empire to make a stand against Genghis Khan. Genghis Khan died before reaching Hungary. The Hungarians allowed 40,000 Cumani to settle in through out the Empire. What is interesting about the Cumani is that the emigrated from along the Yellow River below Mongolia. They were not a purely Asian race. They belonged to a Turkic group. Nonetheless, they had a very distinctive look, some with very 'almond' eyes.
              I suspect that your photograph of the women in Levice was of Cumani heritage. By the Ottoman invasion they had been living in Hungary for 400 years.
              Michael
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: helene cincebeaux
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 3:40 PM
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in Upper Hungary (Slovakia)


              Have you seen Karel Plicka's photograph of women in
              Levice - they look totally oriental - maybe it was the
              earlier incursion of Tatars that casued this

              However I seem to recall that that area was occupied
              by the Turks much longer than a year - more like
              decades.

              But this is only an impression - nice to get more info
              on something that is hard to research in English.
              thanks to all

              helene

              --- Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:

              > An article in Spectacular Slovakia said in 1663 the
              > Ottoman's controlled Nita, Nove Zamky and Levice,
              > only for one year.
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: helene cincebeaux
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 11:24 AM
              > Subject: RE: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in
              > Upper Hungary (Slovakia)
              >
              >
              > Interesting - i read somewhere that they came up
              > the
              > rivers into Moravia and Slovakia - would be
              > curious to
              > know which rivers and how far up - some were in
              > eastern Slovakia I recall.
              >
              > helene
              >
              > --- konekta@... wrote:
              >
              > > No Turks there. They took only the southern belt
              > of
              > > present Slovakia.
              > > Vladimir
              > >
              > > _____
              > >
              > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
              > > Behalf Of fernbrough
              > > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 5:20 PM
              > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in Upper
              > > Hungary (Slovakia)
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Are there any maps that show the extent the
              > Ottoman
              > > Empire extended in
              > > current day eastern Slovakia in the 1600's?
              > >
              > > I am specifically interested in seeing a map(s)
              > at
              > > village level.
              > >
              > > My relatives came from Raslavice (Saros), Mala
              > > Vieska (Saros)and
              > > Komarany (Zemplin).
              > >
              > > Thanks in advance.
              > >
              > > Bob S.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > > removed]
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              __________________________________________________________
              > Bored stiff? Loosen up...
              > Download and play hundreds of games for free on
              > Yahoo! Games.
              > http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >

              __________________________________________________________
              Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
              in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
              http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • helene cincebeaux
              Thanks Michael! Intrigued by the Cumani people. Dr. Tony Sutherland of Jednota told me that they were also called the Plavci people and the various places
              Message 6 of 24 , May 7, 2007
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                Thanks Michael! Intrigued by the Cumani people. Dr.
                Tony Sutherland of Jednota told me that they were also
                called the Plavci people and the various places with
                Plavec in the village name were settled by them for
                example Plavec in Saris in eastern Slovakia and
                Plavecky Podhradie in southwestern Slovakia.

                Fascinating to think of such a major migration by such
                an exotic peoples. Also intrigued with the fierce
                Avars who were known for their beautiful motifs,
                (possibly related to the famed Scythians) and for
                their songs!

                helene


                --- Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:

                > Helene,
                > In the 1200's a people called the Cumani joined
                > forces with the Hungarian Empire to make a stand
                > against Genghis Khan. Genghis Khan died before
                > reaching Hungary. The Hungarians allowed 40,000
                > Cumani to settle in through out the Empire. What is
                > interesting about the Cumani is that the emigrated
                > from along the Yellow River below Mongolia. They
                > were not a purely Asian race. They belonged to a
                > Turkic group. Nonetheless, they had a very
                > distinctive look, some with very 'almond' eyes.
                > I suspect that your photograph of the women in
                > Levice was of Cumani heritage. By the Ottoman
                > invasion they had been living in Hungary for 400
                > years.
                > Michael
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: helene cincebeaux
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 3:40 PM
                > Subject: Re: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in
                > Upper Hungary (Slovakia)
                >
                >
                > Have you seen Karel Plicka's photograph of women
                > in
                > Levice - they look totally oriental - maybe it was
                > the
                > earlier incursion of Tatars that casued this
                >
                > However I seem to recall that that area was
                > occupied
                > by the Turks much longer than a year - more like
                > decades.
                >
                > But this is only an impression - nice to get more
                > info
                > on something that is hard to research in English.
                > thanks to all
                >
                > helene
                >
                > --- Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:
                >
                > > An article in Spectacular Slovakia said in 1663
                > the
                > > Ottoman's controlled Nita, Nove Zamky and
                > Levice,
                > > only for one year.
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: helene cincebeaux
                > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 11:24 AM
                > > Subject: RE: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in
                > > Upper Hungary (Slovakia)
                > >
                > >
                > > Interesting - i read somewhere that they came up
                > > the
                > > rivers into Moravia and Slovakia - would be
                > > curious to
                > > know which rivers and how far up - some were in
                > > eastern Slovakia I recall.
                > >
                > > helene
                > >
                > > --- konekta@... wrote:
                > >
                > > > No Turks there. They took only the southern
                > belt
                > > of
                > > > present Slovakia.
                > > > Vladimir
                > > >
                > > > _____
                > > >
                > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > > > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                > > > Behalf Of fernbrough
                > > > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 5:20 PM
                > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > > > Subject: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in
                > Upper
                > > > Hungary (Slovakia)
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Are there any maps that show the extent the
                > > Ottoman
                > > > Empire extended in
                > > > current day eastern Slovakia in the 1600's?
                > > >
                > > > I am specifically interested in seeing a
                > map(s)
                > > at
                > > > village level.
                > > >
                > > > My relatives came from Raslavice (Saros), Mala
                > > > Vieska (Saros)and
                > > > Komarany (Zemplin).
                > > >
                > > > Thanks in advance.
                > > >
                > > > Bob S.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > > > removed]
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                __________________________________________________________
                > > Bored stiff? Loosen up...
                > > Download and play hundreds of games for free on
                > > Yahoo! Games.
                > > http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > > removed]
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                __________________________________________________________
                > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000
                > hotels
                > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find
                > your fit.
                > http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > removed]
                >
                >


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              • david1law@aol.com
                Hi Helene: Here s a link to an interesting encyclopedia article regarding the CUMANS (KUNOK in Hungarian) _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumans_
                Message 7 of 24 , May 7, 2007
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                  Hi Helene:

                  Here's a link to an interesting encyclopedia article regarding the CUMANS
                  (KUNOK in Hungarian)

                  _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumans_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumans)

                  Interestingly, the village of HELCMANOVCE may well have a CUMAN origin, as
                  one of the old names of the village is NAGYKUNCZFALVA which appears to
                  literally translate as "Great Cuman Village."

                  In regard to the Turks, the Slovak surname TUREK literally means "TURK" and
                  I've seen this surname in the Spis and Saris regions.

                  Best regards,


                  David



                  ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • fernbrough
                  Thanks for all of your input and advice. I intend to do more reading and searching. I asked the question because I knew after the occupied lands were vacated,
                  Message 8 of 24 , May 7, 2007
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                    Thanks for all of your input and advice.

                    I intend to do more reading and searching.

                    I asked the question because I knew after the occupied lands were
                    vacated, Slovaks moved and settled into these areas.

                    I thought Mala Vieska, just north of Kosice was one of these areas.

                    Thanks, again.
                  • Michael Mojher
                    I tried to locate Mala Vieska on my Slovak Road Atlas. There was no such place listed. I did an online search and found references to it. One even gave the
                    Message 9 of 24 , May 7, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I tried to locate Mala Vieska on my Slovak Road Atlas. There was no such place listed.
                      I did an online search and found references to it. One even gave the coordinates 48 degrees 48 minutes by 21 degrees 15 minutes.
                      Google Earth placed those coordinates in present Druzstevna pri Hornade. It appears your village was incorporated into another.
                      There is a website for the town, www.druzstevna.sk, it is only in Slovak. Nonetheless, if you click on the Historia link you will find the story of Mala Vieska.
                      Michael Mojher
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: fernbrough
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 5:46 AM
                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in Upper Hungary (Slovakia)


                      Thanks for all of your input and advice.

                      I intend to do more reading and searching.

                      I asked the question because I knew after the occupied lands were
                      vacated, Slovaks moved and settled into these areas.

                      I thought Mala Vieska, just north of Kosice was one of these areas.

                      Thanks, again.





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Michael Mojher
                      Helene, It was your message about Dr. Sutherland s reference to the Plavci and Plavec that got me investigating them years ago. My ancestal village of Hromos
                      Message 10 of 24 , May 7, 2007
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                        Helene,
                        It was your message about Dr. Sutherland's reference to the Plavci and Plavec that got me investigating them years ago. My ancestal village of Hromos is only 3 km from Plavec and Plavnica.
                        I wrote Dr. Nora Berend in England, she lectures on the Cumani. I told her of Dr. Sutherland's reference. She said that she has never in research found such a reference.
                        If you can ask Dr. Sutherland where he learned of the Plavci and Plav town connection I would very much be interested in it.
                        The Historical Atlas of Central Europe, Map 6: Central Europe, ca. 1250 refer to the Cumani in Hungary as the Kuns. The settled predominately in central Hungary between the Ipel' and Tisza rivers.
                        The Avars are interesting. Their Avar Khanate in the north was in the Slovaks territory. The H.A.C.E., Map 3:Central Europe, 7th and 8th centuries shows the Slovaks occupied the the territory south of the Carpathian Mountains, west almost to the Morava River, east and south to what is much of modern Slovakia. What the Avars did was bring new Slavs with them when the invaded from the east and then took them to the Balkans, along with established Slavs of the territory, ie. the Slovaks. When the Avars retreated back to their Khanate the Slavs stayed behind. Resulting in Carinthian and Pannonian Slavs being established. The Slavic Croats and Serbs were established when the Byzantine Emperor invited them to settle in the Empires hinderlands as a buffer to the Avars.
                        The Avars were a nomadic people of Mongolian or Turco-Tatar origin. After their defeat in the 810s it only took a decade for the reference to Avars was no longer used. A number of them are said to have gone to Nitra (Slovakia) to help form a new state. Their hypothetical descendants, the Szekely (who apparently preserved the Avar Dragon Totem well into the 15th century were relocated to Transylvania in the 12th century.

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: helene cincebeaux
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 4:51 AM
                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in Upper Hungary (Slovakia)


                        Thanks Michael! Intrigued by the Cumani people. Dr.
                        Tony Sutherland of Jednota told me that they were also
                        called the Plavci people and the various places with
                        Plavec in the village name were settled by them for
                        example Plavec in Saris in eastern Slovakia and
                        Plavecky Podhradie in southwestern Slovakia.

                        Fascinating to think of such a major migration by such
                        an exotic peoples. Also intrigued with the fierce
                        Avars who were known for their beautiful motifs,
                        (possibly related to the famed Scythians) and for
                        their songs!

                        helene

                        --- Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:

                        > Helene,
                        > In the 1200's a people called the Cumani joined
                        > forces with the Hungarian Empire to make a stand
                        > against Genghis Khan. Genghis Khan died before
                        > reaching Hungary. The Hungarians allowed 40,000
                        > Cumani to settle in through out the Empire. What is
                        > interesting about the Cumani is that the emigrated
                        > from along the Yellow River below Mongolia. They
                        > were not a purely Asian race. They belonged to a
                        > Turkic group. Nonetheless, they had a very
                        > distinctive look, some with very 'almond' eyes.
                        > I suspect that your photograph of the women in
                        > Levice was of Cumani heritage. By the Ottoman
                        > invasion they had been living in Hungary for 400
                        > years.
                        > Michael
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: helene cincebeaux
                        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 3:40 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in
                        > Upper Hungary (Slovakia)
                        >
                        >
                        > Have you seen Karel Plicka's photograph of women
                        > in
                        > Levice - they look totally oriental - maybe it was
                        > the
                        > earlier incursion of Tatars that casued this
                        >
                        > However I seem to recall that that area was
                        > occupied
                        > by the Turks much longer than a year - more like
                        > decades.
                        >
                        > But this is only an impression - nice to get more
                        > info
                        > on something that is hard to research in English.
                        > thanks to all
                        >
                        > helene
                        >
                        > --- Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > An article in Spectacular Slovakia said in 1663
                        > the
                        > > Ottoman's controlled Nita, Nove Zamky and
                        > Levice,
                        > > only for one year.
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: helene cincebeaux
                        > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 11:24 AM
                        > > Subject: RE: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in
                        > > Upper Hungary (Slovakia)
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Interesting - i read somewhere that they came up
                        > > the
                        > > rivers into Moravia and Slovakia - would be
                        > > curious to
                        > > know which rivers and how far up - some were in
                        > > eastern Slovakia I recall.
                        > >
                        > > helene
                        > >
                        > > --- konekta@... wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > No Turks there. They took only the southern
                        > belt
                        > > of
                        > > > present Slovakia.
                        > > > Vladimir
                        > > >
                        > > > _____
                        > > >
                        > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                        > > > Behalf Of fernbrough
                        > > > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 5:20 PM
                        > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > Subject: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in
                        > Upper
                        > > > Hungary (Slovakia)
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Are there any maps that show the extent the
                        > > Ottoman
                        > > > Empire extended in
                        > > > current day eastern Slovakia in the 1600's?
                        > > >
                        > > > I am specifically interested in seeing a
                        > map(s)
                        > > at
                        > > > village level.
                        > > >
                        > > > My relatives came from Raslavice (Saros), Mala
                        > > > Vieska (Saros)and
                        > > > Komarany (Zemplin).
                        > > >
                        > > > Thanks in advance.
                        > > >
                        > > > Bob S.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                        > > > removed]
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        __________________________________________________________
                        > > Bored stiff? Loosen up...
                        > > Download and play hundreds of games for free on
                        > > Yahoo! Games.
                        > > http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                        > > removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        __________________________________________________________
                        > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000
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                        > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find
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                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                        > removed]
                        >
                        >

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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • david1law@aol.com
                        Hello: In regard to the Cumans (also known as POLOVCY in Russian and POLOVTSI in Ukrainian), there are several counties in Hungarian -- BACS-KISKUN and
                        Message 11 of 24 , May 7, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hello:

                          In regard to the Cumans (also known as POLOVCY in Russian and POLOVTSI in
                          Ukrainian), there are several counties in Hungarian -- BACS-KISKUN and
                          JASZ-NAGYKUN-SZOLNOK that had significant populations of Cumans (KUN in Hungarian --
                          KUNOK (plural) in Hungarian). I believe that the PALOC people in NOGRAD
                          county -- centered around HOLLOKO -- may possibly be of Cuman origin as well, as
                          I have seen a reference that the name is derived from the Slavic name for the
                          Cumans. The village of HOLLOKO in northern Hungary is on the UNESCO World
                          Heritage List.

                          Best regards,

                          David



                          ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Paul Tomasko
                          Hello everyone I have been following along with these postings finding it very interesting. In my family which comes from the village of Siba, County Saris, my
                          Message 12 of 24 , May 7, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hello everyone

                            I have been following along with these postings finding it very interesting.
                            In my family which comes from the village of Siba, County Saris, my
                            fathers brother has a very distinctive Asian look to him. He really looks
                            like the guy from the movie Karate Kid, (you know wax on, wax off) I do not
                            have any proof or cement facts and just figured that when the Khan invaded
                            they raped, and burned villages. Or there was always the chance my 5th or
                            6th Great Grandmother really liked a big hulking Mongol and took him as a
                            husband. My question is...Is this a trait that is seen often in families
                            coming from North Eastern Slovakia?

                            Thank you all

                            Paul Tomasko

                            searching surnames: Tomasko, Tomascin, Tomascsin, Tomastyik, Mackanin,
                            Macskanyin, Homa




                            >From: david1law@...
                            >Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            >Subject: Re: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in Upper Hungary (Slovakia)
                            >Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 19:27:06 EDT
                            >
                            >Hello:
                            >
                            >In regard to the Cumans (also known as POLOVCY in Russian and POLOVTSI in
                            >Ukrainian), there are several counties in Hungarian -- BACS-KISKUN and
                            >JASZ-NAGYKUN-SZOLNOK that had significant populations of Cumans (KUN in
                            >Hungarian --
                            >KUNOK (plural) in Hungarian). I believe that the PALOC people in NOGRAD
                            >county -- centered around HOLLOKO -- may possibly be of Cuman origin as
                            >well, as
                            >I have seen a reference that the name is derived from the Slavic name for
                            >the
                            >Cumans. The village of HOLLOKO in northern Hungary is on the UNESCO World
                            >Heritage List.
                            >
                            >Best regards,
                            >
                            >David
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >************************************** See what's free at
                            >http://www.aol.com
                            >
                            >
                            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • david1law@aol.com
                            Hi Paul: It would be hard to tell, based upon looks alone, whether any bloodline traces back to an Asian ancestor, although it certainly possible. The city
                            Message 13 of 24 , May 7, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi Paul:

                              It would be hard to tell, based upon looks alone, whether any bloodline
                              traces back to an Asian ancestor, although it certainly possible. The city of
                              PRESOV in SARIS county was a cross-roads to the north and south, as well as to
                              the east and west, and over time, there were at least several Asian groups
                              that may have influenced the genetics of the population, including the Mongols,
                              the Cumans, and the Sarmatians. Interestingly, the Slavic name for the
                              Cumans -- POLOVTSI means "pale" or "yellow" so that may also be a possibility. In
                              addition, a Sarmatian tribe known as the IAZYGES (JASZ in Hungarian),
                              another ethnic group from the Sea of Azov area in Asia, probably had the most
                              profound interaction with the Slavs, and were a neighboring people as the word for
                              "tongue" / "language" / "accent" in Slovak is JAZYK and derived from the
                              name of the Sarmatian IAZGYES/JAZYGES.

                              _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iazyges_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iazyges)

                              Indeed, according to Polish tradition and legend, there is a connection
                              between the Sarmatians and Polish nobility.

                              _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatians_
                              (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatians)

                              I find the history of the territory of Slovakia and the various ethnic
                              groups who influenced the region over the centuries to be quite fascinating. By
                              the way, there was a great show on the History Channel's Digging for the Truth
                              with Josh Bernstein regarding the Mongols and tracing some the DNA of some
                              modern day Mongols back to Genghis Khan. I believe it was the episode "Lost
                              World of Genghis Khan." You may be able to find some information about the
                              show on the web if you do a GOOGLE search).


                              Your surname -- TOMASKO -- also caught my attention. One of my great,
                              great, great grandmothers is a SUSANNA TOMASOV. I have found the TOMASOV surname
                              to be rather uncommon in Slovakia, and it has been mentioned to me from a
                              very reliable source that there are other variations of the surname, one of
                              which may be TOMASKO. (Helene, if you are reading this posting, please be so kind
                              as to refresh my recollection as to other derivations of the TOMASOV
                              surname. I believe you mentioned to me a long time ago that it may be something
                              like TOMKO or TOMASKO). My TOMASOV clan is from the village of HRISOVCE in SPIS
                              county, right on the border of SARIS. I do not know if there is any
                              connection, but you never know.


                              Best regards,


                              David




                              ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Michael Mojher
                              Paul, Slovakia is one of those cross-road locations where migration paths over history have come through or near it. In an earlier reply I wrote of the Avars
                              Message 14 of 24 , May 7, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Paul,
                                Slovakia is one of those 'cross-road' locations where migration paths over history have come through or near it. In an earlier reply I wrote of the Avars from Mongolia in 700's and 800's. In the 900's the Magyars came. Around 1050 the Pechenegs, who were allied with the Cumani were in the upper half of modern Slovakia. In the 1200's the Cumani/Kuns.
                                Siba is in the traditional area of the Sub-Carpathian Rusyns. The potential to have any and all of these groups in our DNA is there.
                                I submitted my DNA to the National Geographic Genographic project. My 12 marker analysis showed my DNA migration path left Africa, went through the Middle East, Central Asia, Northeast Europe and finally with major populations in France, Spain and the British Isles. The 12 marker analysis is good for my ancestors 10,000 years ago. By having more markers done I would get more specific and closer to me profile of my DNA. It would also narrow the pool of people that are related to me. With the 12 marker I have been sent a list of over 1000 people that have identical DNA profiles. Which means 10,000 years ago we shared a common ancestor. Talk about distant cousins!
                                Michael
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Paul Tomasko
                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 5:12 PM
                                Subject: Re: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in Upper Hungary (Slovakia)


                                Hello everyone

                                I have been following along with these postings finding it very interesting.
                                In my family which comes from the village of Siba, County Saris, my
                                fathers brother has a very distinctive Asian look to him. He really looks
                                like the guy from the movie Karate Kid, (you know wax on, wax off) I do not
                                have any proof or cement facts and just figured that when the Khan invaded
                                they raped, and burned villages. Or there was always the chance my 5th or
                                6th Great Grandmother really liked a big hulking Mongol and took him as a
                                husband. My question is...Is this a trait that is seen often in families
                                coming from North Eastern Slovakia?

                                Thank you all

                                Paul Tomasko

                                searching surnames: Tomasko, Tomascin, Tomascsin, Tomastyik, Mackanin,
                                Macskanyin, Homa

                                >From: david1law@...
                                >Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                >Subject: Re: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in Upper Hungary (Slovakia)
                                >Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 19:27:06 EDT
                                >
                                >Hello:
                                >
                                >In regard to the Cumans (also known as POLOVCY in Russian and POLOVTSI in
                                >Ukrainian), there are several counties in Hungarian -- BACS-KISKUN and
                                >JASZ-NAGYKUN-SZOLNOK that had significant populations of Cumans (KUN in
                                >Hungarian --
                                >KUNOK (plural) in Hungarian). I believe that the PALOC people in NOGRAD
                                >county -- centered around HOLLOKO -- may possibly be of Cuman origin as
                                >well, as
                                >I have seen a reference that the name is derived from the Slavic name for
                                >the
                                >Cumans. The village of HOLLOKO in northern Hungary is on the UNESCO World
                                >Heritage List.
                                >
                                >Best regards,
                                >
                                >David
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >************************************** See what's free at
                                >http://www.aol.com
                                >
                                >
                                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • konekta@nm.psg.sk
                                Dear David, Hrisovce had 53 house numbers in 1869 Census. #25 was Alojz Tomasov I have a client, who also has ancestors from Hrisovce ( actually I am working
                                Message 15 of 24 , May 7, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Dear David,
                                  Hrisovce had 53 house numbers in 1869 Census.
                                  #25 was Alojz Tomasov
                                  I have a client, who also has ancestors from Hrisovce ( actually I am
                                  working on that right now).
                                  The whole village was heavily interrelated.
                                  Please, contact me off list.
                                  Regards,
                                  Vladimir


                                  _____

                                  From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  Behalf Of david1law@...
                                  Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 4:24 AM
                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in Upper Hungary (Slovakia)



                                  Hi Paul:

                                  It would be hard to tell, based upon looks alone, whether any bloodline
                                  traces back to an Asian ancestor, although it certainly possible. The city
                                  of
                                  PRESOV in SARIS county was a cross-roads to the north and south, as well as
                                  to
                                  the east and west, and over time, there were at least several Asian groups
                                  that may have influenced the genetics of the population, including the
                                  Mongols,
                                  the Cumans, and the Sarmatians. Interestingly, the Slavic name for the
                                  Cumans -- POLOVTSI means "pale" or "yellow" so that may also be a
                                  possibility. In
                                  addition, a Sarmatian tribe known as the IAZYGES (JASZ in Hungarian),
                                  another ethnic group from the Sea of Azov area in Asia, probably had the
                                  most
                                  profound interaction with the Slavs, and were a neighboring people as the
                                  word for
                                  "tongue" / "language" / "accent" in Slovak is JAZYK and derived from the
                                  name of the Sarmatian IAZGYES/JAZYGES.

                                  _http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iazyges_>
                                  .org/wiki/Iazyges_ (http://en.wikipedia
                                  <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iazyges> .org/wiki/Iazyges)

                                  Indeed, according to Polish tradition and legend, there is a connection
                                  between the Sarmatians and Polish nobility.

                                  _http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatians_>
                                  .org/wiki/Sarmatians_
                                  (http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatians>
                                  .org/wiki/Sarmatians)

                                  I find the history of the territory of Slovakia and the various ethnic
                                  groups who influenced the region over the centuries to be quite fascinating.
                                  By
                                  the way, there was a great show on the History Channel's Digging for the
                                  Truth
                                  with Josh Bernstein regarding the Mongols and tracing some the DNA of some
                                  modern day Mongols back to Genghis Khan. I believe it was the episode "Lost
                                  World of Genghis Khan." You may be able to find some information about the
                                  show on the web if you do a GOOGLE search).


                                  Your surname -- TOMASKO -- also caught my attention. One of my great,
                                  great, great grandmothers is a SUSANNA TOMASOV. I have found the TOMASOV
                                  surname
                                  to be rather uncommon in Slovakia, and it has been mentioned to me from a
                                  very reliable source that there are other variations of the surname, one of
                                  which may be TOMASKO. (Helene, if you are reading this posting, please be so
                                  kind
                                  as to refresh my recollection as to other derivations of the TOMASOV
                                  surname. I believe you mentioned to me a long time ago that it may be
                                  something
                                  like TOMKO or TOMASKO). My TOMASOV clan is from the village of HRISOVCE in
                                  SPIS
                                  county, right on the border of SARIS. I do not know if there is any
                                  connection, but you never know.


                                  Best regards,


                                  David


                                  ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol
                                  <http://www.aol.com> com.

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • david1law@aol.com
                                  Hi Vladimir: Thank you very much for the information regarding Hrisovce. I would definitely like to learn more about the potential contact. What is your
                                  Message 16 of 24 , May 8, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hi Vladimir:

                                    Thank you very much for the information regarding Hrisovce. I would
                                    definitely like to learn more about the potential contact. What is your e-mail
                                    address? Thank you again.

                                    Please

                                    Best regards,

                                    David



                                    ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • konekta@nm.psg.sk
                                    Dear David, here I am Vladimir Bohinc Professional Genealogist KONEKTA s.r.o., Dukelska 11, 915 01 Nove Mesto n.V., Slovak Republic Tel/Fax; xx421 32 7710 375
                                    Message 17 of 24 , May 8, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Dear David,
                                      here I am
                                      Vladimir Bohinc
                                      Professional Genealogist
                                      KONEKTA s.r.o., Dukelska 11, 915 01 Nove Mesto n.V., Slovak Republic
                                      Tel/Fax; xx421 32 7710 375
                                      e-mail: konekta@...
                                      web page: www.konekta.sk <http://www.konekta.sk/>



                                      _____

                                      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                                      Behalf Of david1law@...
                                      Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:07 AM
                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Extent of Ottoman Empire in Upper Hungary (Slovakia)



                                      Hi Vladimir:

                                      Thank you very much for the information regarding Hrisovce. I would
                                      definitely like to learn more about the potential contact. What is your
                                      e-mail
                                      address? Thank you again.

                                      Please

                                      Best regards,

                                      David

                                      ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol
                                      <http://www.aol.com> com.

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • helene cincebeaux
                                      Thanks to all for the really fascinating comments on this topic - this is where our group shines - all that wonderful knowledge and expertise and willingness
                                      Message 18 of 24 , May 9, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Thanks to all for the really fascinating comments on
                                        this topic - this is where our group shines - all that
                                        wonderful knowledge and expertise and willingness to
                                        share. Bravo!!!!

                                        helene

                                        __________________________________________________
                                        Do You Yahoo!?
                                        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                        http://mail.yahoo.com
                                      • david1law@aol.com
                                        Dear Vladimir: Thank you very much for putting me in touch with Stephen Zehala, whose ancestors are also from the village of Hrisovce. He spoke very highly of
                                        Message 19 of 24 , May 17, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Dear Vladimir:

                                          Thank you very much for putting me in touch with Stephen Zehala, whose
                                          ancestors are also from the village of Hrisovce. He spoke very highly of your
                                          genealogical work for him. You became their adopted family hero. It definitely
                                          looks like we share common roots in the TOMASOV clan. You were also right
                                          that I would recognize many of the other names connected with their family.
                                          Thank you again, my friend.


                                          Best regards,


                                          David



                                          ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • david1law@aol.com
                                          Hi Helene: Thank you for the postings of the surnames and villages in the SLOVAK PRIDE database. Your work helped me to connect to a third cousin of mine,
                                          Message 20 of 24 , May 17, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hi Helene:

                                            Thank you for the postings of the surnames and villages in the SLOVAK PRIDE
                                            database. Your work helped me to connect to a third cousin of mine, ALENA
                                            BALOGA, in the village of HRISOVCE, where my grandfather ANDREW BALOGA and my
                                            great grandfather NICHOLAS BALOGA were born. ALENA is a descendant of my
                                            great grandfather's brother MATHIAS BALOGA, and we are both descendants of my
                                            great, great grandparents JAN BALOGA and SUSANNA TOMASOV. Thank you again for
                                            all your work

                                            Best regards,


                                            David Michael Baloga






                                            ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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