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[S-R] Re: looking for Velky Rakovicz

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  • johnqadam
    ... see the right top corner of the map, there is N.Rakocz
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 26, 2007
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      >>> This village is on: http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/ugocsa.jpg
      see the right top corner of the map, there is N.Rakocz <<<

      I agree that Nagy Rakocz shows up in Ugocsa Megye. That raises the
      question of where the original poster got the Zemplen Megye information.
    • pdbennett_52
      ... Yes, I had also found Nagy Ra ko cz in the far northeast corner of the 1910 map of Ugocsa Megye after Juraj s original post about the Ukraine location. I
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 26, 2007
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        >
        > I agree that Nagy Rakocz shows up in Ugocsa Megye. That raises the
        > question of where the original poster got the Zemplen Megye information.
        >

        Yes, I had also found Nagy Ra'ko'cz in the far northeast corner of
        the 1910 map of Ugocsa Megye after Juraj's original post about the
        Ukraine location. I agree that this is a good potential candidate. The
        problem now is that none of the possible sites fully agree with the
        information I have, which come from various documents passed down in
        the family. I'm working third-hand here since I don't have these in my
        possession, but I have requested copies so that I can examine these
        directly. Again, the information I have been told (by my cousin,
        quoting directly) is:

        "I also looked at a partial copy of something Irene sent me. It shows
        the Yuhasz family coming from Rakocz, which I think is Rakovec in
        Hungarian."

        and a quote from another e-mail:

        "I looked at the book I have from Irene called Opportunity Realized:
        The Greek Catholic Union's First One Hundred Years 1892-1992... I have
        Michel Yuhasz's village as Velky Rakovec, Zemplin County,
        Subcarpathian Rus' [I understand this to mean the information came
        from the GCU book]. I found this town on a 1906 map I received, and
        don't know if it is the same today."

        and a later response, after I'd suggested Rakovec nad Ondavou as the
        possible village in modern-day Slovakia:

        "Anyway, I checked the book, Opportunity Realized, and that is where I
        saw Velky Rakovicz, not Rakovec nad Ondavou. I had written in notes
        that this is the correct name from the man in Pittsburgh I called for
        the 1906 map..."

        So the information I have so far from family records implies the
        village was really Velky Rakovicz (or Rakovec) in Zemplen megye of
        pre-WWI Hungary.

        This is all I know from the family directly. I have not been able to
        find other documentation confirming this information. The best I have
        been able to do is glean a sense of the region from which the Yuhasz's
        emigrated from data appearing on census forms over several decades, as
        political boundaries changed. The Yuhasz family left Hungary in 1884,
        and came to England. The English 1891 and 1901 censuses give the
        Yuhasz family members' birthplace as Hungary and Austria respectively.
        The family immigrated to the U.S. from England in 1905. The US 1910
        census gives their place of birth as Hungary-Ruthenia. In 1920, this
        appears as Rusinia, and in 1930 as Czechoslovakia. A son's WWII US
        registration card only gives Czechoslovakia as the place of birth (the
        form asks for the town, but unfortunately, that is all that was
        given). A biographical excerpt published in 1922 states that one of
        the Yuhasz brothers was born in Upper Hungary, Carpathian Mountains,
        Czechoslovakia, again, unfortunately, with no village mentioned. All
        of these general locations are consistent with the three most
        promising candidate villages mentioned on this thread:

        1. Rakovec nad Ondavou, Slovakia = Ra'ko'cz, Zemplen FHL # 722770
        2. Velke' Raskovce, Slovakia = Nagyra'ska, Zemplen: FHL # 722755
        3. Velykyi Rakovets, Ukraine = Nagy Ra'Ko'cz, Ugocsa: not filmed?

        I'm hoping the village is not in Ukraine, because I don't believe any
        of the Ugocsa 1869 census records and church records have been filmed
        by the LDS. In this case, trying to find the Yuhasz family in the
        ancestral village will come to a sudden dead end. However, family
        records indicate the village was in Zemplen county. I believe it more
        likely that the village name has been garbled than the county name has
        been passed down incorrectly. So I still favor Rakovec nad Ond.

        Phil
      • Rich Custer
        Well, now this becomes somewhat clearer. Michael Juhasz of the Greek Catholic Union was absolutely born in Rakovec nad Ondavou in Zemplen County, not Velykyj
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 26, 2007
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          Well, now this becomes somewhat clearer.

          Michael Juhasz of the Greek Catholic Union was
          absolutely born in Rakovec nad Ondavou in Zemplen
          County, not Velykyj Rakovec in Ugocsa county. Many
          of the early leaders of the Greek Catholic Union
          were also from villages around Vranov and Trebisov,
          yet despite this being Slovak ethnographic territory
          today, they called themselves Rusins /
          Carpatho-Russians.

          If the GCU used as their reference for _Opportunity
          Realized_ the "Ethnographic Map of Uhro-Rus', 1906"
          by Andrew Perejda and distributed by the Byzantine
          Catholic Eparchy of Passaic, that explains the
          discrepancy in the village name as stated in
          _Opportunity Realized_. That map is riddled with
          errors as far as the village names are concerned.

          ---- Original message ----

          Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:40:51 -0000
          From: "pdbennett_52" <pbennett@...>
          Subject: [S-R] Re: looking for Velky Rakovicz
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

          >

          > I agree that Nagy Rakocz shows up in Ugocsa
          Megye. That raises the

          > question of where the original poster got the
          Zemplen Megye information.

          >

          Yes, I had also found Nagy Ra'ko'cz in the far
          northeast corner of

          the 1910 map of Ugocsa Megye after Juraj's
          original post about the

          Ukraine location. I agree that this is a good
          potential candidate. The

          problem now is that none of the possible sites
          fully agree with the

          information I have, which come from various
          documents passed down in

          the family. I'm working third-hand here since I
          don't have these in my

          possession, but I have requested copies so that I
          can examine these

          directly. Again, the information I have been told
          (by my cousin,

          quoting directly) is:

          "I also looked at a partial copy of something
          Irene sent me. It shows

          the Yuhasz family coming from Rakocz, which I
          think is Rakovec in

          Hungarian."

          and a quote from another e-mail:

          "I looked at the book I have from Irene called
          Opportunity Realized:

          The Greek Catholic Union's First One Hundred Years
          1892-1992... I have

          Michel Yuhasz's village as Velky Rakovec, Zemplin
          County,

          Subcarpathian Rus' [I understand this to mean the
          information came

          from the GCU book]. I found this town on a 1906
          map I received, and

          don't know if it is the same today."

          and a later response, after I'd suggested Rakovec
          nad Ondavou as the

          possible village in modern-day Slovakia:

          "Anyway, I checked the book, Opportunity Realized,
          and that is where I

          saw Velky Rakovicz, not Rakovec nad Ondavou. I had
          written in notes

          that this is the correct name from the man in
          Pittsburgh I called for

          the 1906 map..."

          So the information I have so far from family
          records implies the

          village was really Velky Rakovicz (or Rakovec) in
          Zemplen megye of

          pre-WWI Hungary.

          This is all I know from the family directly. I
          have not been able to

          find other documentation confirming this
          information. The best I have

          been able to do is glean a sense of the region
          from which the Yuhasz's

          emigrated from data appearing on census forms over
          several decades, as

          political boundaries changed. The Yuhasz family
          left Hungary in 1884,

          and came to England. The English 1891 and 1901
          censuses give the

          Yuhasz family members' birthplace as Hungary and
          Austria respectively.

          The family immigrated to the U.S. from England in
          1905. The US 1910

          census gives their place of birth as
          Hungary-Ruthenia. In 1920, this

          appears as Rusinia, and in 1930 as Czechoslovakia.
          A son's WWII US

          registration card only gives Czechoslovakia as the
          place of birth (the

          form asks for the town, but unfortunately, that is
          all that was

          given). A biographical excerpt published in 1922
          states that one of

          the Yuhasz brothers was born in Upper Hungary,
          Carpathian Mountains,

          Czechoslovakia, again, unfortunately, with no
          village mentioned. All

          of these general locations are consistent with the
          three most

          promising candidate villages mentioned on this
          thread:

          1. Rakovec nad Ondavou, Slovakia = Ra'ko'cz,
          Zemplen FHL # 722770

          2. Velke' Raskovce, Slovakia = Nagyra'ska,
          Zemplen: FHL # 722755

          3. Velykyi Rakovets, Ukraine = Nagy Ra'Ko'cz,
          Ugocsa: not filmed?

          I'm hoping the village is not in Ukraine, because
          I don't believe any

          of the Ugocsa 1869 census records and church
          records have been filmed

          by the LDS. In this case, trying to find the
          Yuhasz family in the

          ancestral village will come to a sudden dead end.
          However, family

          records indicate the village was in Zemplen
          county. I believe it more

          likely that the village name has been garbled than
          the county name has

          been passed down incorrectly. So I still favor
          Rakovec nad Ond.

          Phil




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • david1law@aol.com
          Hi Phil: Just a little clarification regarding place name suffixes, the -OCZ suffix is Hungarian, and the -OVEC is Slovak. Best regards, David
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 26, 2007
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            Hi Phil:

            Just a little clarification regarding place name suffixes, the -OCZ suffix
            is Hungarian, and the -OVEC is Slovak.

            Best regards,

            David



            ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Juraj Cisarik
            hello, here is a link of schematizmus of the village Rakovec nad Ondavou: http://www.cisarik.com/MINISCHEMATIZMUS-prq.htm chronology of reverends in the
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 26, 2007
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              hello,

              here is a link of schematizmus of the village Rakovec nad Ondavou:
              http://www.cisarik.com/MINISCHEMATIZMUS-prq.htm
              chronology of reverends in the village:

              Danielovi´┐Ż Georgius 1800 - 1849 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

              Pajkossy Josephus 1849 - 1866 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

              Slavik Paulus 1866 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

              Zabava Michael 1866 - 1867 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

              Balogh Josephus 1867 - 1876 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

              Starecky Nicolaus 1876 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

              Novak Joannes 1876 - 1877 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

              Kallok Paulus 1877 - 1878 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

              Precechtely Eugenius 1878 - 1880 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

              Gulovic Nicolaus 1887 - 1888 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

              Dudic Joannes 1888 - 1932 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

              Pajkossy Julius 1897 - 1900 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

              Pahy Gregorius 1927 - 1929 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

              Sereghy Josephus 1929 - 1931 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

              Tink Antonius 1932 - 1948 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

              Tink Desiderius 1940 - 1941 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

              Seman Joannes 1941 - 1948 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

              (M)means Mukacevo eparchy/not Presov!/

              I have a family tree of reverends: Seman, Tink, Sereghy, Dudic, Gulovic.

              I was there last summer and I took all pictures of graves older then 40
              years.
              There are two churches. Older one near to the cemetery is not used by mass
              services and
              downthere near to the road is new greekcath. church - built just recently.

              Juraj


              >From: Rich Custer <rcuster@...>
              >Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: looking for Velky Rakovicz
              >Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:01:23 -0400 (EDT)
              >
              >Well, now this becomes somewhat clearer.
              >
              >Michael Juhasz of the Greek Catholic Union was
              >absolutely born in Rakovec nad Ondavou in Zemplen
              >County, not Velykyj Rakovec in Ugocsa county. Many
              >of the early leaders of the Greek Catholic Union
              >were also from villages around Vranov and Trebisov,
              >yet despite this being Slovak ethnographic territory
              >today, they called themselves Rusins /
              >Carpatho-Russians.
              >
              >If the GCU used as their reference for _Opportunity
              >Realized_ the "Ethnographic Map of Uhro-Rus', 1906"
              >by Andrew Perejda and distributed by the Byzantine
              >Catholic Eparchy of Passaic, that explains the
              >discrepancy in the village name as stated in
              >_Opportunity Realized_. That map is riddled with
              >errors as far as the village names are concerned.
              >
              >---- Original message ----
              >

              _________________________________________________________________
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            • pdbennett_52
              ... Rich, thanks for this confirmation! Your map reference sounds like it is indeed the one being referred to, although I can t be certain until I receive
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 26, 2007
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                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Rich Custer <rcuster@...> wrote:
                >
                > Well, now this becomes somewhat clearer.
                >
                > Michael Juhasz of the Greek Catholic Union was
                > absolutely born in Rakovec nad Ondavou in Zemplen
                > County, not Velykyj Rakovec in Ugocsa county. Many
                > of the early leaders of the Greek Catholic Union
                > were also from villages around Vranov and Trebisov,
                > yet despite this being Slovak ethnographic territory
                > today, they called themselves Rusins /
                > Carpatho-Russians.
                >
                > If the GCU used as their reference for _Opportunity
                > Realized_ the "Ethnographic Map of Uhro-Rus', 1906"
                > by Andrew Perejda and distributed by the Byzantine
                > Catholic Eparchy of Passaic, that explains the
                > discrepancy in the village name as stated in
                > _Opportunity Realized_. That map is riddled with
                > errors as far as the village names are concerned.
                >

                Rich, thanks for this confirmation! Your map reference sounds like
                it is indeed the one being referred to, although I can't be certain
                until I receive copies of the documentation now in the mail.

                Michael Juhasz (Yuhasz) was very active in the Greek Catholic Union
                in the early 1900s, and served in many exective positions, including
                president. May I ask the source of your information about his
                birthplace? I'm not doubting you -- rather I just want to document my
                sources for future reference. I really do appreciate your help in
                resolving this!

                Phil
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