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Re: looking for Velky Rakovicz

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  • genealogyslovakia
    Velky Rakovec is in Ukraine! Rakovec nad ondavou is a wrong way of searching. Juraj see my website - www.cisarik.com ... possible ... have ... the
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 25 2:31 PM
      Velky Rakovec is in Ukraine!
      Rakovec nad ondavou is a wrong way of searching.
      Juraj
      see my website -
      www.cisarik.com


      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "pdbennett_52" <pbennett@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Thanks to all who replied to my post! At least the field of
      possible
      > villages seems to be narrowed down to 2 or perhaps 3 candidates. I
      have
      > already ordered the FHL census film for Rakovec nad Ondavou. In the
      > meantime, I am trying to check family history to see if I can find
      the
      > Hungarian name of this village. I'll post what I find when I have
      > something more definitive to report.
      >
      > Phil
      >
    • johnqadam
      ... How do you reconcile that with Zemplen Megye? Where in Ukraine? Can you point it out on the 1910 map at http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 25 3:02 PM
        >>> Velky Rakovec is in Ukraine!<<<

        How do you reconcile that with Zemplen Megye? Where in Ukraine? Can you
        point it out on the 1910 map at
        http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg
      • Juraj Cisarik
        This village is on: http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/ugocsa.jpg see the right top corner of the map, there is N.Rakocz Juraj names of villages are on my
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 25 11:33 PM
          This village is on:
          http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/ugocsa.jpg
          see the right top corner of the map, there is N.Rakocz

          Juraj
          names of villages are on my exact address of the site:
          http://www.cisarik.com/Hungary-Slovak-names-of-villages-CENSUS-1869.html


          >From: "johnqadam" <johnqadam@...>
          >Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: [S-R] Re: looking for Velky Rakovicz
          >Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:02:43 -0000
          >
          > >>> Velky Rakovec is in Ukraine!<<<
          >
          >How do you reconcile that with Zemplen Megye? Where in Ukraine? Can you
          >point it out on the 1910 map at
          >http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg
          >
          >
          >

          _________________________________________________________________
          Potrebujete vediet, ake pocasie bude na Slovensku aj vo svete.
          http://www.msn.sk/weather
        • johnqadam
          ... see the right top corner of the map, there is N.Rakocz
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 26 6:09 AM
            >>> This village is on: http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/ugocsa.jpg
            see the right top corner of the map, there is N.Rakocz <<<

            I agree that Nagy Rakocz shows up in Ugocsa Megye. That raises the
            question of where the original poster got the Zemplen Megye information.
          • pdbennett_52
            ... Yes, I had also found Nagy Ra ko cz in the far northeast corner of the 1910 map of Ugocsa Megye after Juraj s original post about the Ukraine location. I
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 26 11:40 AM
              >
              > I agree that Nagy Rakocz shows up in Ugocsa Megye. That raises the
              > question of where the original poster got the Zemplen Megye information.
              >

              Yes, I had also found Nagy Ra'ko'cz in the far northeast corner of
              the 1910 map of Ugocsa Megye after Juraj's original post about the
              Ukraine location. I agree that this is a good potential candidate. The
              problem now is that none of the possible sites fully agree with the
              information I have, which come from various documents passed down in
              the family. I'm working third-hand here since I don't have these in my
              possession, but I have requested copies so that I can examine these
              directly. Again, the information I have been told (by my cousin,
              quoting directly) is:

              "I also looked at a partial copy of something Irene sent me. It shows
              the Yuhasz family coming from Rakocz, which I think is Rakovec in
              Hungarian."

              and a quote from another e-mail:

              "I looked at the book I have from Irene called Opportunity Realized:
              The Greek Catholic Union's First One Hundred Years 1892-1992... I have
              Michel Yuhasz's village as Velky Rakovec, Zemplin County,
              Subcarpathian Rus' [I understand this to mean the information came
              from the GCU book]. I found this town on a 1906 map I received, and
              don't know if it is the same today."

              and a later response, after I'd suggested Rakovec nad Ondavou as the
              possible village in modern-day Slovakia:

              "Anyway, I checked the book, Opportunity Realized, and that is where I
              saw Velky Rakovicz, not Rakovec nad Ondavou. I had written in notes
              that this is the correct name from the man in Pittsburgh I called for
              the 1906 map..."

              So the information I have so far from family records implies the
              village was really Velky Rakovicz (or Rakovec) in Zemplen megye of
              pre-WWI Hungary.

              This is all I know from the family directly. I have not been able to
              find other documentation confirming this information. The best I have
              been able to do is glean a sense of the region from which the Yuhasz's
              emigrated from data appearing on census forms over several decades, as
              political boundaries changed. The Yuhasz family left Hungary in 1884,
              and came to England. The English 1891 and 1901 censuses give the
              Yuhasz family members' birthplace as Hungary and Austria respectively.
              The family immigrated to the U.S. from England in 1905. The US 1910
              census gives their place of birth as Hungary-Ruthenia. In 1920, this
              appears as Rusinia, and in 1930 as Czechoslovakia. A son's WWII US
              registration card only gives Czechoslovakia as the place of birth (the
              form asks for the town, but unfortunately, that is all that was
              given). A biographical excerpt published in 1922 states that one of
              the Yuhasz brothers was born in Upper Hungary, Carpathian Mountains,
              Czechoslovakia, again, unfortunately, with no village mentioned. All
              of these general locations are consistent with the three most
              promising candidate villages mentioned on this thread:

              1. Rakovec nad Ondavou, Slovakia = Ra'ko'cz, Zemplen FHL # 722770
              2. Velke' Raskovce, Slovakia = Nagyra'ska, Zemplen: FHL # 722755
              3. Velykyi Rakovets, Ukraine = Nagy Ra'Ko'cz, Ugocsa: not filmed?

              I'm hoping the village is not in Ukraine, because I don't believe any
              of the Ugocsa 1869 census records and church records have been filmed
              by the LDS. In this case, trying to find the Yuhasz family in the
              ancestral village will come to a sudden dead end. However, family
              records indicate the village was in Zemplen county. I believe it more
              likely that the village name has been garbled than the county name has
              been passed down incorrectly. So I still favor Rakovec nad Ond.

              Phil
            • Rich Custer
              Well, now this becomes somewhat clearer. Michael Juhasz of the Greek Catholic Union was absolutely born in Rakovec nad Ondavou in Zemplen County, not Velykyj
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 26 12:01 PM
                Well, now this becomes somewhat clearer.

                Michael Juhasz of the Greek Catholic Union was
                absolutely born in Rakovec nad Ondavou in Zemplen
                County, not Velykyj Rakovec in Ugocsa county. Many
                of the early leaders of the Greek Catholic Union
                were also from villages around Vranov and Trebisov,
                yet despite this being Slovak ethnographic territory
                today, they called themselves Rusins /
                Carpatho-Russians.

                If the GCU used as their reference for _Opportunity
                Realized_ the "Ethnographic Map of Uhro-Rus', 1906"
                by Andrew Perejda and distributed by the Byzantine
                Catholic Eparchy of Passaic, that explains the
                discrepancy in the village name as stated in
                _Opportunity Realized_. That map is riddled with
                errors as far as the village names are concerned.

                ---- Original message ----

                Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:40:51 -0000
                From: "pdbennett_52" <pbennett@...>
                Subject: [S-R] Re: looking for Velky Rakovicz
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

                >

                > I agree that Nagy Rakocz shows up in Ugocsa
                Megye. That raises the

                > question of where the original poster got the
                Zemplen Megye information.

                >

                Yes, I had also found Nagy Ra'ko'cz in the far
                northeast corner of

                the 1910 map of Ugocsa Megye after Juraj's
                original post about the

                Ukraine location. I agree that this is a good
                potential candidate. The

                problem now is that none of the possible sites
                fully agree with the

                information I have, which come from various
                documents passed down in

                the family. I'm working third-hand here since I
                don't have these in my

                possession, but I have requested copies so that I
                can examine these

                directly. Again, the information I have been told
                (by my cousin,

                quoting directly) is:

                "I also looked at a partial copy of something
                Irene sent me. It shows

                the Yuhasz family coming from Rakocz, which I
                think is Rakovec in

                Hungarian."

                and a quote from another e-mail:

                "I looked at the book I have from Irene called
                Opportunity Realized:

                The Greek Catholic Union's First One Hundred Years
                1892-1992... I have

                Michel Yuhasz's village as Velky Rakovec, Zemplin
                County,

                Subcarpathian Rus' [I understand this to mean the
                information came

                from the GCU book]. I found this town on a 1906
                map I received, and

                don't know if it is the same today."

                and a later response, after I'd suggested Rakovec
                nad Ondavou as the

                possible village in modern-day Slovakia:

                "Anyway, I checked the book, Opportunity Realized,
                and that is where I

                saw Velky Rakovicz, not Rakovec nad Ondavou. I had
                written in notes

                that this is the correct name from the man in
                Pittsburgh I called for

                the 1906 map..."

                So the information I have so far from family
                records implies the

                village was really Velky Rakovicz (or Rakovec) in
                Zemplen megye of

                pre-WWI Hungary.

                This is all I know from the family directly. I
                have not been able to

                find other documentation confirming this
                information. The best I have

                been able to do is glean a sense of the region
                from which the Yuhasz's

                emigrated from data appearing on census forms over
                several decades, as

                political boundaries changed. The Yuhasz family
                left Hungary in 1884,

                and came to England. The English 1891 and 1901
                censuses give the

                Yuhasz family members' birthplace as Hungary and
                Austria respectively.

                The family immigrated to the U.S. from England in
                1905. The US 1910

                census gives their place of birth as
                Hungary-Ruthenia. In 1920, this

                appears as Rusinia, and in 1930 as Czechoslovakia.
                A son's WWII US

                registration card only gives Czechoslovakia as the
                place of birth (the

                form asks for the town, but unfortunately, that is
                all that was

                given). A biographical excerpt published in 1922
                states that one of

                the Yuhasz brothers was born in Upper Hungary,
                Carpathian Mountains,

                Czechoslovakia, again, unfortunately, with no
                village mentioned. All

                of these general locations are consistent with the
                three most

                promising candidate villages mentioned on this
                thread:

                1. Rakovec nad Ondavou, Slovakia = Ra'ko'cz,
                Zemplen FHL # 722770

                2. Velke' Raskovce, Slovakia = Nagyra'ska,
                Zemplen: FHL # 722755

                3. Velykyi Rakovets, Ukraine = Nagy Ra'Ko'cz,
                Ugocsa: not filmed?

                I'm hoping the village is not in Ukraine, because
                I don't believe any

                of the Ugocsa 1869 census records and church
                records have been filmed

                by the LDS. In this case, trying to find the
                Yuhasz family in the

                ancestral village will come to a sudden dead end.
                However, family

                records indicate the village was in Zemplen
                county. I believe it more

                likely that the village name has been garbled than
                the county name has

                been passed down incorrectly. So I still favor
                Rakovec nad Ond.

                Phil




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • david1law@aol.com
                Hi Phil: Just a little clarification regarding place name suffixes, the -OCZ suffix is Hungarian, and the -OVEC is Slovak. Best regards, David
                Message 7 of 15 , Apr 26 12:06 PM
                  Hi Phil:

                  Just a little clarification regarding place name suffixes, the -OCZ suffix
                  is Hungarian, and the -OVEC is Slovak.

                  Best regards,

                  David



                  ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Juraj Cisarik
                  hello, here is a link of schematizmus of the village Rakovec nad Ondavou: http://www.cisarik.com/MINISCHEMATIZMUS-prq.htm chronology of reverends in the
                  Message 8 of 15 , Apr 26 1:27 PM
                    hello,

                    here is a link of schematizmus of the village Rakovec nad Ondavou:
                    http://www.cisarik.com/MINISCHEMATIZMUS-prq.htm
                    chronology of reverends in the village:

                    Danielovi´┐Ż Georgius 1800 - 1849 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                    Pajkossy Josephus 1849 - 1866 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                    Slavik Paulus 1866 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                    Zabava Michael 1866 - 1867 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                    Balogh Josephus 1867 - 1876 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                    Starecky Nicolaus 1876 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                    Novak Joannes 1876 - 1877 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                    Kallok Paulus 1877 - 1878 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                    Precechtely Eugenius 1878 - 1880 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                    Gulovic Nicolaus 1887 - 1888 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                    Dudic Joannes 1888 - 1932 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                    Pajkossy Julius 1897 - 1900 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                    Pahy Gregorius 1927 - 1929 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                    Sereghy Josephus 1929 - 1931 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                    Tink Antonius 1932 - 1948 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                    Tink Desiderius 1940 - 1941 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                    Seman Joannes 1941 - 1948 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                    (M)means Mukacevo eparchy/not Presov!/

                    I have a family tree of reverends: Seman, Tink, Sereghy, Dudic, Gulovic.

                    I was there last summer and I took all pictures of graves older then 40
                    years.
                    There are two churches. Older one near to the cemetery is not used by mass
                    services and
                    downthere near to the road is new greekcath. church - built just recently.

                    Juraj


                    >From: Rich Custer <rcuster@...>
                    >Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: looking for Velky Rakovicz
                    >Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:01:23 -0400 (EDT)
                    >
                    >Well, now this becomes somewhat clearer.
                    >
                    >Michael Juhasz of the Greek Catholic Union was
                    >absolutely born in Rakovec nad Ondavou in Zemplen
                    >County, not Velykyj Rakovec in Ugocsa county. Many
                    >of the early leaders of the Greek Catholic Union
                    >were also from villages around Vranov and Trebisov,
                    >yet despite this being Slovak ethnographic territory
                    >today, they called themselves Rusins /
                    >Carpatho-Russians.
                    >
                    >If the GCU used as their reference for _Opportunity
                    >Realized_ the "Ethnographic Map of Uhro-Rus', 1906"
                    >by Andrew Perejda and distributed by the Byzantine
                    >Catholic Eparchy of Passaic, that explains the
                    >discrepancy in the village name as stated in
                    >_Opportunity Realized_. That map is riddled with
                    >errors as far as the village names are concerned.
                    >
                    >---- Original message ----
                    >

                    _________________________________________________________________
                    MSN Pocasie vam umozni naplanovat si den a tyzden..
                    http://www.msn.sk/weather
                  • pdbennett_52
                    ... Rich, thanks for this confirmation! Your map reference sounds like it is indeed the one being referred to, although I can t be certain until I receive
                    Message 9 of 15 , Apr 26 8:27 PM
                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Rich Custer <rcuster@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Well, now this becomes somewhat clearer.
                      >
                      > Michael Juhasz of the Greek Catholic Union was
                      > absolutely born in Rakovec nad Ondavou in Zemplen
                      > County, not Velykyj Rakovec in Ugocsa county. Many
                      > of the early leaders of the Greek Catholic Union
                      > were also from villages around Vranov and Trebisov,
                      > yet despite this being Slovak ethnographic territory
                      > today, they called themselves Rusins /
                      > Carpatho-Russians.
                      >
                      > If the GCU used as their reference for _Opportunity
                      > Realized_ the "Ethnographic Map of Uhro-Rus', 1906"
                      > by Andrew Perejda and distributed by the Byzantine
                      > Catholic Eparchy of Passaic, that explains the
                      > discrepancy in the village name as stated in
                      > _Opportunity Realized_. That map is riddled with
                      > errors as far as the village names are concerned.
                      >

                      Rich, thanks for this confirmation! Your map reference sounds like
                      it is indeed the one being referred to, although I can't be certain
                      until I receive copies of the documentation now in the mail.

                      Michael Juhasz (Yuhasz) was very active in the Greek Catholic Union
                      in the early 1900s, and served in many exective positions, including
                      president. May I ask the source of your information about his
                      birthplace? I'm not doubting you -- rather I just want to document my
                      sources for future reference. I really do appreciate your help in
                      resolving this!

                      Phil
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