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Re: [S-R] looking for Velky Rakovicz

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  • helene cincebeaux
    HI Checked the Slovak Pride data base and found 11 Yuhas listings one is actually from Rakovec na Ond. Also found one Kraly listed - from Ruske Zemplin. get
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 24, 2007
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      HI

      Checked the Slovak Pride data base and found 11 Yuhas listings

      one is actually from Rakovec na Ond.

      Also found one Kraly listed - from Ruske Zemplin.

      get back to me if you want more info on how to contact the listers

      helene
      helenezx@...

      pdbennett_52 <pbennett@...> wrote:
      I am trying to track down the ancestral village of my
      great-grandfather, Michael Cralley (originally Kraly), who emigrated
      from Hungary around 1880. We have no family information about the
      Kraly family, except that Michael's sister, Barbara Kraly married John
      Yuhasz (originally Juhasz), who also left Hungary around the same time
      for England, and then the U.S. We are hoping that the Kraly family
      came from the same or a nearby village as the Yuhasz family. The
      Yuhasz family history shows them coming from Velky Rakovec or Velky
      Rakovicz, of Zemplen province in Upper Hungary. Is this town the
      present-day Rakovec nad Ondavou in the Kosice region of Slovakia?






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    • pdbennett_52
      Thanks to all who replied to my post! At least the field of possible villages seems to be narrowed down to 2 or perhaps 3 candidates. I have already ordered
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 25, 2007
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        Thanks to all who replied to my post! At least the field of possible
        villages seems to be narrowed down to 2 or perhaps 3 candidates. I have
        already ordered the FHL census film for Rakovec nad Ondavou. In the
        meantime, I am trying to check family history to see if I can find the
        Hungarian name of this village. I'll post what I find when I have
        something more definitive to report.

        Phil
      • genealogyslovakia
        Velky Rakovec is in Ukraine! Rakovec nad ondavou is a wrong way of searching. Juraj see my website - www.cisarik.com ... possible ... have ... the
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 25, 2007
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          Velky Rakovec is in Ukraine!
          Rakovec nad ondavou is a wrong way of searching.
          Juraj
          see my website -
          www.cisarik.com


          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "pdbennett_52" <pbennett@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Thanks to all who replied to my post! At least the field of
          possible
          > villages seems to be narrowed down to 2 or perhaps 3 candidates. I
          have
          > already ordered the FHL census film for Rakovec nad Ondavou. In the
          > meantime, I am trying to check family history to see if I can find
          the
          > Hungarian name of this village. I'll post what I find when I have
          > something more definitive to report.
          >
          > Phil
          >
        • johnqadam
          ... How do you reconcile that with Zemplen Megye? Where in Ukraine? Can you point it out on the 1910 map at http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 25, 2007
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            >>> Velky Rakovec is in Ukraine!<<<

            How do you reconcile that with Zemplen Megye? Where in Ukraine? Can you
            point it out on the 1910 map at
            http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg
          • Juraj Cisarik
            This village is on: http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/ugocsa.jpg see the right top corner of the map, there is N.Rakocz Juraj names of villages are on my
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 25, 2007
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              This village is on:
              http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/ugocsa.jpg
              see the right top corner of the map, there is N.Rakocz

              Juraj
              names of villages are on my exact address of the site:
              http://www.cisarik.com/Hungary-Slovak-names-of-villages-CENSUS-1869.html


              >From: "johnqadam" <johnqadam@...>
              >Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: [S-R] Re: looking for Velky Rakovicz
              >Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:02:43 -0000
              >
              > >>> Velky Rakovec is in Ukraine!<<<
              >
              >How do you reconcile that with Zemplen Megye? Where in Ukraine? Can you
              >point it out on the 1910 map at
              >http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg
              >
              >
              >

              _________________________________________________________________
              Potrebujete vediet, ake pocasie bude na Slovensku aj vo svete.
              http://www.msn.sk/weather
            • johnqadam
              ... see the right top corner of the map, there is N.Rakocz
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 26, 2007
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                >>> This village is on: http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/ugocsa.jpg
                see the right top corner of the map, there is N.Rakocz <<<

                I agree that Nagy Rakocz shows up in Ugocsa Megye. That raises the
                question of where the original poster got the Zemplen Megye information.
              • pdbennett_52
                ... Yes, I had also found Nagy Ra ko cz in the far northeast corner of the 1910 map of Ugocsa Megye after Juraj s original post about the Ukraine location. I
                Message 7 of 15 , Apr 26, 2007
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                  >
                  > I agree that Nagy Rakocz shows up in Ugocsa Megye. That raises the
                  > question of where the original poster got the Zemplen Megye information.
                  >

                  Yes, I had also found Nagy Ra'ko'cz in the far northeast corner of
                  the 1910 map of Ugocsa Megye after Juraj's original post about the
                  Ukraine location. I agree that this is a good potential candidate. The
                  problem now is that none of the possible sites fully agree with the
                  information I have, which come from various documents passed down in
                  the family. I'm working third-hand here since I don't have these in my
                  possession, but I have requested copies so that I can examine these
                  directly. Again, the information I have been told (by my cousin,
                  quoting directly) is:

                  "I also looked at a partial copy of something Irene sent me. It shows
                  the Yuhasz family coming from Rakocz, which I think is Rakovec in
                  Hungarian."

                  and a quote from another e-mail:

                  "I looked at the book I have from Irene called Opportunity Realized:
                  The Greek Catholic Union's First One Hundred Years 1892-1992... I have
                  Michel Yuhasz's village as Velky Rakovec, Zemplin County,
                  Subcarpathian Rus' [I understand this to mean the information came
                  from the GCU book]. I found this town on a 1906 map I received, and
                  don't know if it is the same today."

                  and a later response, after I'd suggested Rakovec nad Ondavou as the
                  possible village in modern-day Slovakia:

                  "Anyway, I checked the book, Opportunity Realized, and that is where I
                  saw Velky Rakovicz, not Rakovec nad Ondavou. I had written in notes
                  that this is the correct name from the man in Pittsburgh I called for
                  the 1906 map..."

                  So the information I have so far from family records implies the
                  village was really Velky Rakovicz (or Rakovec) in Zemplen megye of
                  pre-WWI Hungary.

                  This is all I know from the family directly. I have not been able to
                  find other documentation confirming this information. The best I have
                  been able to do is glean a sense of the region from which the Yuhasz's
                  emigrated from data appearing on census forms over several decades, as
                  political boundaries changed. The Yuhasz family left Hungary in 1884,
                  and came to England. The English 1891 and 1901 censuses give the
                  Yuhasz family members' birthplace as Hungary and Austria respectively.
                  The family immigrated to the U.S. from England in 1905. The US 1910
                  census gives their place of birth as Hungary-Ruthenia. In 1920, this
                  appears as Rusinia, and in 1930 as Czechoslovakia. A son's WWII US
                  registration card only gives Czechoslovakia as the place of birth (the
                  form asks for the town, but unfortunately, that is all that was
                  given). A biographical excerpt published in 1922 states that one of
                  the Yuhasz brothers was born in Upper Hungary, Carpathian Mountains,
                  Czechoslovakia, again, unfortunately, with no village mentioned. All
                  of these general locations are consistent with the three most
                  promising candidate villages mentioned on this thread:

                  1. Rakovec nad Ondavou, Slovakia = Ra'ko'cz, Zemplen FHL # 722770
                  2. Velke' Raskovce, Slovakia = Nagyra'ska, Zemplen: FHL # 722755
                  3. Velykyi Rakovets, Ukraine = Nagy Ra'Ko'cz, Ugocsa: not filmed?

                  I'm hoping the village is not in Ukraine, because I don't believe any
                  of the Ugocsa 1869 census records and church records have been filmed
                  by the LDS. In this case, trying to find the Yuhasz family in the
                  ancestral village will come to a sudden dead end. However, family
                  records indicate the village was in Zemplen county. I believe it more
                  likely that the village name has been garbled than the county name has
                  been passed down incorrectly. So I still favor Rakovec nad Ond.

                  Phil
                • Rich Custer
                  Well, now this becomes somewhat clearer. Michael Juhasz of the Greek Catholic Union was absolutely born in Rakovec nad Ondavou in Zemplen County, not Velykyj
                  Message 8 of 15 , Apr 26, 2007
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                    Well, now this becomes somewhat clearer.

                    Michael Juhasz of the Greek Catholic Union was
                    absolutely born in Rakovec nad Ondavou in Zemplen
                    County, not Velykyj Rakovec in Ugocsa county. Many
                    of the early leaders of the Greek Catholic Union
                    were also from villages around Vranov and Trebisov,
                    yet despite this being Slovak ethnographic territory
                    today, they called themselves Rusins /
                    Carpatho-Russians.

                    If the GCU used as their reference for _Opportunity
                    Realized_ the "Ethnographic Map of Uhro-Rus', 1906"
                    by Andrew Perejda and distributed by the Byzantine
                    Catholic Eparchy of Passaic, that explains the
                    discrepancy in the village name as stated in
                    _Opportunity Realized_. That map is riddled with
                    errors as far as the village names are concerned.

                    ---- Original message ----

                    Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:40:51 -0000
                    From: "pdbennett_52" <pbennett@...>
                    Subject: [S-R] Re: looking for Velky Rakovicz
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

                    >

                    > I agree that Nagy Rakocz shows up in Ugocsa
                    Megye. That raises the

                    > question of where the original poster got the
                    Zemplen Megye information.

                    >

                    Yes, I had also found Nagy Ra'ko'cz in the far
                    northeast corner of

                    the 1910 map of Ugocsa Megye after Juraj's
                    original post about the

                    Ukraine location. I agree that this is a good
                    potential candidate. The

                    problem now is that none of the possible sites
                    fully agree with the

                    information I have, which come from various
                    documents passed down in

                    the family. I'm working third-hand here since I
                    don't have these in my

                    possession, but I have requested copies so that I
                    can examine these

                    directly. Again, the information I have been told
                    (by my cousin,

                    quoting directly) is:

                    "I also looked at a partial copy of something
                    Irene sent me. It shows

                    the Yuhasz family coming from Rakocz, which I
                    think is Rakovec in

                    Hungarian."

                    and a quote from another e-mail:

                    "I looked at the book I have from Irene called
                    Opportunity Realized:

                    The Greek Catholic Union's First One Hundred Years
                    1892-1992... I have

                    Michel Yuhasz's village as Velky Rakovec, Zemplin
                    County,

                    Subcarpathian Rus' [I understand this to mean the
                    information came

                    from the GCU book]. I found this town on a 1906
                    map I received, and

                    don't know if it is the same today."

                    and a later response, after I'd suggested Rakovec
                    nad Ondavou as the

                    possible village in modern-day Slovakia:

                    "Anyway, I checked the book, Opportunity Realized,
                    and that is where I

                    saw Velky Rakovicz, not Rakovec nad Ondavou. I had
                    written in notes

                    that this is the correct name from the man in
                    Pittsburgh I called for

                    the 1906 map..."

                    So the information I have so far from family
                    records implies the

                    village was really Velky Rakovicz (or Rakovec) in
                    Zemplen megye of

                    pre-WWI Hungary.

                    This is all I know from the family directly. I
                    have not been able to

                    find other documentation confirming this
                    information. The best I have

                    been able to do is glean a sense of the region
                    from which the Yuhasz's

                    emigrated from data appearing on census forms over
                    several decades, as

                    political boundaries changed. The Yuhasz family
                    left Hungary in 1884,

                    and came to England. The English 1891 and 1901
                    censuses give the

                    Yuhasz family members' birthplace as Hungary and
                    Austria respectively.

                    The family immigrated to the U.S. from England in
                    1905. The US 1910

                    census gives their place of birth as
                    Hungary-Ruthenia. In 1920, this

                    appears as Rusinia, and in 1930 as Czechoslovakia.
                    A son's WWII US

                    registration card only gives Czechoslovakia as the
                    place of birth (the

                    form asks for the town, but unfortunately, that is
                    all that was

                    given). A biographical excerpt published in 1922
                    states that one of

                    the Yuhasz brothers was born in Upper Hungary,
                    Carpathian Mountains,

                    Czechoslovakia, again, unfortunately, with no
                    village mentioned. All

                    of these general locations are consistent with the
                    three most

                    promising candidate villages mentioned on this
                    thread:

                    1. Rakovec nad Ondavou, Slovakia = Ra'ko'cz,
                    Zemplen FHL # 722770

                    2. Velke' Raskovce, Slovakia = Nagyra'ska,
                    Zemplen: FHL # 722755

                    3. Velykyi Rakovets, Ukraine = Nagy Ra'Ko'cz,
                    Ugocsa: not filmed?

                    I'm hoping the village is not in Ukraine, because
                    I don't believe any

                    of the Ugocsa 1869 census records and church
                    records have been filmed

                    by the LDS. In this case, trying to find the
                    Yuhasz family in the

                    ancestral village will come to a sudden dead end.
                    However, family

                    records indicate the village was in Zemplen
                    county. I believe it more

                    likely that the village name has been garbled than
                    the county name has

                    been passed down incorrectly. So I still favor
                    Rakovec nad Ond.

                    Phil




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • david1law@aol.com
                    Hi Phil: Just a little clarification regarding place name suffixes, the -OCZ suffix is Hungarian, and the -OVEC is Slovak. Best regards, David
                    Message 9 of 15 , Apr 26, 2007
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                      Hi Phil:

                      Just a little clarification regarding place name suffixes, the -OCZ suffix
                      is Hungarian, and the -OVEC is Slovak.

                      Best regards,

                      David



                      ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Juraj Cisarik
                      hello, here is a link of schematizmus of the village Rakovec nad Ondavou: http://www.cisarik.com/MINISCHEMATIZMUS-prq.htm chronology of reverends in the
                      Message 10 of 15 , Apr 26, 2007
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                        hello,

                        here is a link of schematizmus of the village Rakovec nad Ondavou:
                        http://www.cisarik.com/MINISCHEMATIZMUS-prq.htm
                        chronology of reverends in the village:

                        Danielovi´┐Ż Georgius 1800 - 1849 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                        Pajkossy Josephus 1849 - 1866 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                        Slavik Paulus 1866 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                        Zabava Michael 1866 - 1867 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                        Balogh Josephus 1867 - 1876 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                        Starecky Nicolaus 1876 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                        Novak Joannes 1876 - 1877 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                        Kallok Paulus 1877 - 1878 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                        Precechtely Eugenius 1878 - 1880 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                        Gulovic Nicolaus 1887 - 1888 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                        Dudic Joannes 1888 - 1932 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                        Pajkossy Julius 1897 - 1900 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                        Pahy Gregorius 1927 - 1929 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                        Sereghy Josephus 1929 - 1931 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                        Tink Antonius 1932 - 1948 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                        Tink Desiderius 1940 - 1941 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                        Seman Joannes 1941 - 1948 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                        (M)means Mukacevo eparchy/not Presov!/

                        I have a family tree of reverends: Seman, Tink, Sereghy, Dudic, Gulovic.

                        I was there last summer and I took all pictures of graves older then 40
                        years.
                        There are two churches. Older one near to the cemetery is not used by mass
                        services and
                        downthere near to the road is new greekcath. church - built just recently.

                        Juraj


                        >From: Rich Custer <rcuster@...>
                        >Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        >Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: looking for Velky Rakovicz
                        >Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:01:23 -0400 (EDT)
                        >
                        >Well, now this becomes somewhat clearer.
                        >
                        >Michael Juhasz of the Greek Catholic Union was
                        >absolutely born in Rakovec nad Ondavou in Zemplen
                        >County, not Velykyj Rakovec in Ugocsa county. Many
                        >of the early leaders of the Greek Catholic Union
                        >were also from villages around Vranov and Trebisov,
                        >yet despite this being Slovak ethnographic territory
                        >today, they called themselves Rusins /
                        >Carpatho-Russians.
                        >
                        >If the GCU used as their reference for _Opportunity
                        >Realized_ the "Ethnographic Map of Uhro-Rus', 1906"
                        >by Andrew Perejda and distributed by the Byzantine
                        >Catholic Eparchy of Passaic, that explains the
                        >discrepancy in the village name as stated in
                        >_Opportunity Realized_. That map is riddled with
                        >errors as far as the village names are concerned.
                        >
                        >---- Original message ----
                        >

                        _________________________________________________________________
                        MSN Pocasie vam umozni naplanovat si den a tyzden..
                        http://www.msn.sk/weather
                      • pdbennett_52
                        ... Rich, thanks for this confirmation! Your map reference sounds like it is indeed the one being referred to, although I can t be certain until I receive
                        Message 11 of 15 , Apr 26, 2007
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                          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Rich Custer <rcuster@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Well, now this becomes somewhat clearer.
                          >
                          > Michael Juhasz of the Greek Catholic Union was
                          > absolutely born in Rakovec nad Ondavou in Zemplen
                          > County, not Velykyj Rakovec in Ugocsa county. Many
                          > of the early leaders of the Greek Catholic Union
                          > were also from villages around Vranov and Trebisov,
                          > yet despite this being Slovak ethnographic territory
                          > today, they called themselves Rusins /
                          > Carpatho-Russians.
                          >
                          > If the GCU used as their reference for _Opportunity
                          > Realized_ the "Ethnographic Map of Uhro-Rus', 1906"
                          > by Andrew Perejda and distributed by the Byzantine
                          > Catholic Eparchy of Passaic, that explains the
                          > discrepancy in the village name as stated in
                          > _Opportunity Realized_. That map is riddled with
                          > errors as far as the village names are concerned.
                          >

                          Rich, thanks for this confirmation! Your map reference sounds like
                          it is indeed the one being referred to, although I can't be certain
                          until I receive copies of the documentation now in the mail.

                          Michael Juhasz (Yuhasz) was very active in the Greek Catholic Union
                          in the early 1900s, and served in many exective positions, including
                          president. May I ask the source of your information about his
                          birthplace? I'm not doubting you -- rather I just want to document my
                          sources for future reference. I really do appreciate your help in
                          resolving this!

                          Phil
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