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Re: looking for Velky Rakovicz

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  • johnqadam
    Based upon current phone listings, which by themselves prove nothing, I would bet on the more northern location. That implies Rakovec nad Ondavou. Good luck.
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 24, 2007
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      Based upon current phone listings, which by themselves prove nothing, I
      would bet on the more northern location. That implies Rakovec nad
      Ondavou.

      Good luck.
    • helene cincebeaux
      HI Checked the Slovak Pride data base and found 11 Yuhas listings one is actually from Rakovec na Ond. Also found one Kraly listed - from Ruske Zemplin. get
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 24, 2007
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        HI

        Checked the Slovak Pride data base and found 11 Yuhas listings

        one is actually from Rakovec na Ond.

        Also found one Kraly listed - from Ruske Zemplin.

        get back to me if you want more info on how to contact the listers

        helene
        helenezx@...

        pdbennett_52 <pbennett@...> wrote:
        I am trying to track down the ancestral village of my
        great-grandfather, Michael Cralley (originally Kraly), who emigrated
        from Hungary around 1880. We have no family information about the
        Kraly family, except that Michael's sister, Barbara Kraly married John
        Yuhasz (originally Juhasz), who also left Hungary around the same time
        for England, and then the U.S. We are hoping that the Kraly family
        came from the same or a nearby village as the Yuhasz family. The
        Yuhasz family history shows them coming from Velky Rakovec or Velky
        Rakovicz, of Zemplen province in Upper Hungary. Is this town the
        present-day Rakovec nad Ondavou in the Kosice region of Slovakia?






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      • pdbennett_52
        Thanks to all who replied to my post! At least the field of possible villages seems to be narrowed down to 2 or perhaps 3 candidates. I have already ordered
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 25, 2007
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          Thanks to all who replied to my post! At least the field of possible
          villages seems to be narrowed down to 2 or perhaps 3 candidates. I have
          already ordered the FHL census film for Rakovec nad Ondavou. In the
          meantime, I am trying to check family history to see if I can find the
          Hungarian name of this village. I'll post what I find when I have
          something more definitive to report.

          Phil
        • genealogyslovakia
          Velky Rakovec is in Ukraine! Rakovec nad ondavou is a wrong way of searching. Juraj see my website - www.cisarik.com ... possible ... have ... the
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 25, 2007
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            Velky Rakovec is in Ukraine!
            Rakovec nad ondavou is a wrong way of searching.
            Juraj
            see my website -
            www.cisarik.com


            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "pdbennett_52" <pbennett@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Thanks to all who replied to my post! At least the field of
            possible
            > villages seems to be narrowed down to 2 or perhaps 3 candidates. I
            have
            > already ordered the FHL census film for Rakovec nad Ondavou. In the
            > meantime, I am trying to check family history to see if I can find
            the
            > Hungarian name of this village. I'll post what I find when I have
            > something more definitive to report.
            >
            > Phil
            >
          • johnqadam
            ... How do you reconcile that with Zemplen Megye? Where in Ukraine? Can you point it out on the 1910 map at http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 25, 2007
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              >>> Velky Rakovec is in Ukraine!<<<

              How do you reconcile that with Zemplen Megye? Where in Ukraine? Can you
              point it out on the 1910 map at
              http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg
            • Juraj Cisarik
              This village is on: http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/ugocsa.jpg see the right top corner of the map, there is N.Rakocz Juraj names of villages are on my
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 25, 2007
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                This village is on:
                http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/ugocsa.jpg
                see the right top corner of the map, there is N.Rakocz

                Juraj
                names of villages are on my exact address of the site:
                http://www.cisarik.com/Hungary-Slovak-names-of-villages-CENSUS-1869.html


                >From: "johnqadam" <johnqadam@...>
                >Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: [S-R] Re: looking for Velky Rakovicz
                >Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:02:43 -0000
                >
                > >>> Velky Rakovec is in Ukraine!<<<
                >
                >How do you reconcile that with Zemplen Megye? Where in Ukraine? Can you
                >point it out on the 1910 map at
                >http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg
                >
                >
                >

                _________________________________________________________________
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              • johnqadam
                ... see the right top corner of the map, there is N.Rakocz
                Message 7 of 15 , Apr 26, 2007
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                  >>> This village is on: http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/ugocsa.jpg
                  see the right top corner of the map, there is N.Rakocz <<<

                  I agree that Nagy Rakocz shows up in Ugocsa Megye. That raises the
                  question of where the original poster got the Zemplen Megye information.
                • pdbennett_52
                  ... Yes, I had also found Nagy Ra ko cz in the far northeast corner of the 1910 map of Ugocsa Megye after Juraj s original post about the Ukraine location. I
                  Message 8 of 15 , Apr 26, 2007
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                    >
                    > I agree that Nagy Rakocz shows up in Ugocsa Megye. That raises the
                    > question of where the original poster got the Zemplen Megye information.
                    >

                    Yes, I had also found Nagy Ra'ko'cz in the far northeast corner of
                    the 1910 map of Ugocsa Megye after Juraj's original post about the
                    Ukraine location. I agree that this is a good potential candidate. The
                    problem now is that none of the possible sites fully agree with the
                    information I have, which come from various documents passed down in
                    the family. I'm working third-hand here since I don't have these in my
                    possession, but I have requested copies so that I can examine these
                    directly. Again, the information I have been told (by my cousin,
                    quoting directly) is:

                    "I also looked at a partial copy of something Irene sent me. It shows
                    the Yuhasz family coming from Rakocz, which I think is Rakovec in
                    Hungarian."

                    and a quote from another e-mail:

                    "I looked at the book I have from Irene called Opportunity Realized:
                    The Greek Catholic Union's First One Hundred Years 1892-1992... I have
                    Michel Yuhasz's village as Velky Rakovec, Zemplin County,
                    Subcarpathian Rus' [I understand this to mean the information came
                    from the GCU book]. I found this town on a 1906 map I received, and
                    don't know if it is the same today."

                    and a later response, after I'd suggested Rakovec nad Ondavou as the
                    possible village in modern-day Slovakia:

                    "Anyway, I checked the book, Opportunity Realized, and that is where I
                    saw Velky Rakovicz, not Rakovec nad Ondavou. I had written in notes
                    that this is the correct name from the man in Pittsburgh I called for
                    the 1906 map..."

                    So the information I have so far from family records implies the
                    village was really Velky Rakovicz (or Rakovec) in Zemplen megye of
                    pre-WWI Hungary.

                    This is all I know from the family directly. I have not been able to
                    find other documentation confirming this information. The best I have
                    been able to do is glean a sense of the region from which the Yuhasz's
                    emigrated from data appearing on census forms over several decades, as
                    political boundaries changed. The Yuhasz family left Hungary in 1884,
                    and came to England. The English 1891 and 1901 censuses give the
                    Yuhasz family members' birthplace as Hungary and Austria respectively.
                    The family immigrated to the U.S. from England in 1905. The US 1910
                    census gives their place of birth as Hungary-Ruthenia. In 1920, this
                    appears as Rusinia, and in 1930 as Czechoslovakia. A son's WWII US
                    registration card only gives Czechoslovakia as the place of birth (the
                    form asks for the town, but unfortunately, that is all that was
                    given). A biographical excerpt published in 1922 states that one of
                    the Yuhasz brothers was born in Upper Hungary, Carpathian Mountains,
                    Czechoslovakia, again, unfortunately, with no village mentioned. All
                    of these general locations are consistent with the three most
                    promising candidate villages mentioned on this thread:

                    1. Rakovec nad Ondavou, Slovakia = Ra'ko'cz, Zemplen FHL # 722770
                    2. Velke' Raskovce, Slovakia = Nagyra'ska, Zemplen: FHL # 722755
                    3. Velykyi Rakovets, Ukraine = Nagy Ra'Ko'cz, Ugocsa: not filmed?

                    I'm hoping the village is not in Ukraine, because I don't believe any
                    of the Ugocsa 1869 census records and church records have been filmed
                    by the LDS. In this case, trying to find the Yuhasz family in the
                    ancestral village will come to a sudden dead end. However, family
                    records indicate the village was in Zemplen county. I believe it more
                    likely that the village name has been garbled than the county name has
                    been passed down incorrectly. So I still favor Rakovec nad Ond.

                    Phil
                  • Rich Custer
                    Well, now this becomes somewhat clearer. Michael Juhasz of the Greek Catholic Union was absolutely born in Rakovec nad Ondavou in Zemplen County, not Velykyj
                    Message 9 of 15 , Apr 26, 2007
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                      Well, now this becomes somewhat clearer.

                      Michael Juhasz of the Greek Catholic Union was
                      absolutely born in Rakovec nad Ondavou in Zemplen
                      County, not Velykyj Rakovec in Ugocsa county. Many
                      of the early leaders of the Greek Catholic Union
                      were also from villages around Vranov and Trebisov,
                      yet despite this being Slovak ethnographic territory
                      today, they called themselves Rusins /
                      Carpatho-Russians.

                      If the GCU used as their reference for _Opportunity
                      Realized_ the "Ethnographic Map of Uhro-Rus', 1906"
                      by Andrew Perejda and distributed by the Byzantine
                      Catholic Eparchy of Passaic, that explains the
                      discrepancy in the village name as stated in
                      _Opportunity Realized_. That map is riddled with
                      errors as far as the village names are concerned.

                      ---- Original message ----

                      Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:40:51 -0000
                      From: "pdbennett_52" <pbennett@...>
                      Subject: [S-R] Re: looking for Velky Rakovicz
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

                      >

                      > I agree that Nagy Rakocz shows up in Ugocsa
                      Megye. That raises the

                      > question of where the original poster got the
                      Zemplen Megye information.

                      >

                      Yes, I had also found Nagy Ra'ko'cz in the far
                      northeast corner of

                      the 1910 map of Ugocsa Megye after Juraj's
                      original post about the

                      Ukraine location. I agree that this is a good
                      potential candidate. The

                      problem now is that none of the possible sites
                      fully agree with the

                      information I have, which come from various
                      documents passed down in

                      the family. I'm working third-hand here since I
                      don't have these in my

                      possession, but I have requested copies so that I
                      can examine these

                      directly. Again, the information I have been told
                      (by my cousin,

                      quoting directly) is:

                      "I also looked at a partial copy of something
                      Irene sent me. It shows

                      the Yuhasz family coming from Rakocz, which I
                      think is Rakovec in

                      Hungarian."

                      and a quote from another e-mail:

                      "I looked at the book I have from Irene called
                      Opportunity Realized:

                      The Greek Catholic Union's First One Hundred Years
                      1892-1992... I have

                      Michel Yuhasz's village as Velky Rakovec, Zemplin
                      County,

                      Subcarpathian Rus' [I understand this to mean the
                      information came

                      from the GCU book]. I found this town on a 1906
                      map I received, and

                      don't know if it is the same today."

                      and a later response, after I'd suggested Rakovec
                      nad Ondavou as the

                      possible village in modern-day Slovakia:

                      "Anyway, I checked the book, Opportunity Realized,
                      and that is where I

                      saw Velky Rakovicz, not Rakovec nad Ondavou. I had
                      written in notes

                      that this is the correct name from the man in
                      Pittsburgh I called for

                      the 1906 map..."

                      So the information I have so far from family
                      records implies the

                      village was really Velky Rakovicz (or Rakovec) in
                      Zemplen megye of

                      pre-WWI Hungary.

                      This is all I know from the family directly. I
                      have not been able to

                      find other documentation confirming this
                      information. The best I have

                      been able to do is glean a sense of the region
                      from which the Yuhasz's

                      emigrated from data appearing on census forms over
                      several decades, as

                      political boundaries changed. The Yuhasz family
                      left Hungary in 1884,

                      and came to England. The English 1891 and 1901
                      censuses give the

                      Yuhasz family members' birthplace as Hungary and
                      Austria respectively.

                      The family immigrated to the U.S. from England in
                      1905. The US 1910

                      census gives their place of birth as
                      Hungary-Ruthenia. In 1920, this

                      appears as Rusinia, and in 1930 as Czechoslovakia.
                      A son's WWII US

                      registration card only gives Czechoslovakia as the
                      place of birth (the

                      form asks for the town, but unfortunately, that is
                      all that was

                      given). A biographical excerpt published in 1922
                      states that one of

                      the Yuhasz brothers was born in Upper Hungary,
                      Carpathian Mountains,

                      Czechoslovakia, again, unfortunately, with no
                      village mentioned. All

                      of these general locations are consistent with the
                      three most

                      promising candidate villages mentioned on this
                      thread:

                      1. Rakovec nad Ondavou, Slovakia = Ra'ko'cz,
                      Zemplen FHL # 722770

                      2. Velke' Raskovce, Slovakia = Nagyra'ska,
                      Zemplen: FHL # 722755

                      3. Velykyi Rakovets, Ukraine = Nagy Ra'Ko'cz,
                      Ugocsa: not filmed?

                      I'm hoping the village is not in Ukraine, because
                      I don't believe any

                      of the Ugocsa 1869 census records and church
                      records have been filmed

                      by the LDS. In this case, trying to find the
                      Yuhasz family in the

                      ancestral village will come to a sudden dead end.
                      However, family

                      records indicate the village was in Zemplen
                      county. I believe it more

                      likely that the village name has been garbled than
                      the county name has

                      been passed down incorrectly. So I still favor
                      Rakovec nad Ond.

                      Phil




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • david1law@aol.com
                      Hi Phil: Just a little clarification regarding place name suffixes, the -OCZ suffix is Hungarian, and the -OVEC is Slovak. Best regards, David
                      Message 10 of 15 , Apr 26, 2007
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                        Hi Phil:

                        Just a little clarification regarding place name suffixes, the -OCZ suffix
                        is Hungarian, and the -OVEC is Slovak.

                        Best regards,

                        David



                        ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Juraj Cisarik
                        hello, here is a link of schematizmus of the village Rakovec nad Ondavou: http://www.cisarik.com/MINISCHEMATIZMUS-prq.htm chronology of reverends in the
                        Message 11 of 15 , Apr 26, 2007
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                          hello,

                          here is a link of schematizmus of the village Rakovec nad Ondavou:
                          http://www.cisarik.com/MINISCHEMATIZMUS-prq.htm
                          chronology of reverends in the village:

                          Danielovi´┐Ż Georgius 1800 - 1849 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                          Pajkossy Josephus 1849 - 1866 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                          Slavik Paulus 1866 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                          Zabava Michael 1866 - 1867 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                          Balogh Josephus 1867 - 1876 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                          Starecky Nicolaus 1876 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                          Novak Joannes 1876 - 1877 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                          Kallok Paulus 1877 - 1878 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                          Precechtely Eugenius 1878 - 1880 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                          Gulovic Nicolaus 1887 - 1888 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                          Dudic Joannes 1888 - 1932 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                          Pajkossy Julius 1897 - 1900 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                          Pahy Gregorius 1927 - 1929 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                          Sereghy Josephus 1929 - 1931 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                          Tink Antonius 1932 - 1948 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                          Tink Desiderius 1940 - 1941 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                          Seman Joannes 1941 - 1948 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                          (M)means Mukacevo eparchy/not Presov!/

                          I have a family tree of reverends: Seman, Tink, Sereghy, Dudic, Gulovic.

                          I was there last summer and I took all pictures of graves older then 40
                          years.
                          There are two churches. Older one near to the cemetery is not used by mass
                          services and
                          downthere near to the road is new greekcath. church - built just recently.

                          Juraj


                          >From: Rich Custer <rcuster@...>
                          >Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          >Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: looking for Velky Rakovicz
                          >Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:01:23 -0400 (EDT)
                          >
                          >Well, now this becomes somewhat clearer.
                          >
                          >Michael Juhasz of the Greek Catholic Union was
                          >absolutely born in Rakovec nad Ondavou in Zemplen
                          >County, not Velykyj Rakovec in Ugocsa county. Many
                          >of the early leaders of the Greek Catholic Union
                          >were also from villages around Vranov and Trebisov,
                          >yet despite this being Slovak ethnographic territory
                          >today, they called themselves Rusins /
                          >Carpatho-Russians.
                          >
                          >If the GCU used as their reference for _Opportunity
                          >Realized_ the "Ethnographic Map of Uhro-Rus', 1906"
                          >by Andrew Perejda and distributed by the Byzantine
                          >Catholic Eparchy of Passaic, that explains the
                          >discrepancy in the village name as stated in
                          >_Opportunity Realized_. That map is riddled with
                          >errors as far as the village names are concerned.
                          >
                          >---- Original message ----
                          >

                          _________________________________________________________________
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                        • pdbennett_52
                          ... Rich, thanks for this confirmation! Your map reference sounds like it is indeed the one being referred to, although I can t be certain until I receive
                          Message 12 of 15 , Apr 26, 2007
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                            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Rich Custer <rcuster@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Well, now this becomes somewhat clearer.
                            >
                            > Michael Juhasz of the Greek Catholic Union was
                            > absolutely born in Rakovec nad Ondavou in Zemplen
                            > County, not Velykyj Rakovec in Ugocsa county. Many
                            > of the early leaders of the Greek Catholic Union
                            > were also from villages around Vranov and Trebisov,
                            > yet despite this being Slovak ethnographic territory
                            > today, they called themselves Rusins /
                            > Carpatho-Russians.
                            >
                            > If the GCU used as their reference for _Opportunity
                            > Realized_ the "Ethnographic Map of Uhro-Rus', 1906"
                            > by Andrew Perejda and distributed by the Byzantine
                            > Catholic Eparchy of Passaic, that explains the
                            > discrepancy in the village name as stated in
                            > _Opportunity Realized_. That map is riddled with
                            > errors as far as the village names are concerned.
                            >

                            Rich, thanks for this confirmation! Your map reference sounds like
                            it is indeed the one being referred to, although I can't be certain
                            until I receive copies of the documentation now in the mail.

                            Michael Juhasz (Yuhasz) was very active in the Greek Catholic Union
                            in the early 1900s, and served in many exective positions, including
                            president. May I ask the source of your information about his
                            birthplace? I'm not doubting you -- rather I just want to document my
                            sources for future reference. I really do appreciate your help in
                            resolving this!

                            Phil
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