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RE: [S-R] looking for Velky Rakovicz

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  • Frank R. Plichta
    There is a village Vel ke Ras^kovce in Zemplin. In each of the following period it was known as: 1808 = Welke Rasskowce 1873-1882 = Nagyraska 1888-1913 =
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 24 12:45 PM
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      There is a village Vel'ke' Ras^kovce in Zemplin.



      In each of the following period it was known as:

      1808 = Welke' Rasskowce

      1873-1882 = Nagyraska

      1888-1913 = Nagyra'ska

      1920 = Vel'ke' Raz^kovce

      1927 = Vel'ke' Ras^kovce



      Try this one on for size.

      Frank

      _____

      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of pdbennett_52
      Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 2:14 PM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [SPAM] [S-R] looking for Velky Rakovicz



      I am trying to track down the ancestral village of my
      great-grandfather, Michael Cralley (originally Kraly), who emigrated
      from Hungary around 1880. We have no family information about the
      Kraly family, except that Michael's sister, Barbara Kraly married John
      Yuhasz (originally Juhasz), who also left Hungary around the same time
      for England, and then the U.S. We are hoping that the Kraly family
      came from the same or a nearby village as the Yuhasz family. The
      Yuhasz family history shows them coming from Velky Rakovec or Velky
      Rakovicz, of Zemplen province in Upper Hungary. Is this town the
      present-day Rakovec nad Ondavou in the Kosice region of Slovakia?





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • johnqadam
      ... Hungary.
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 24 2:22 PM
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        >>> Velky Rakovec or Velky Rakovicz, of Zemplen province in Upper
        Hungary. <<<

        On the map, you have the following possibilities in the former
        Zemplen Megye = county:

        Velké Raškovce, Slovakia; formerly Nagy ráska, Zemplén, Hungary near
        Malcice
        Velký Ruskov, Slovakia, formerly Nagy-Ruszka, Zemplén, Hungary,
        northwest of Trebisov
        Rakocz now Rakovec nad Ondavou west of Michalovce

        CURRENT MAP
        To locate places in Europe, especially if you are not sure of the
        proper spelling of the place name, the best reference is found at
        http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm

        ShtetlSeeker will take you there via Mapquest, Multimap or Google.
        1910 HUNGARIAN MAP
        The old Hungarian map can be found at:
        http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg

        To see who lived in each of those villages in 1869, the very
        informative 1869 Hungarian Census is available at your nearest LDS
        Family History center (FHC).
        Nagyráska (Velké Raškovce) – Nagyrozvágy Film #722755
        Nagyruszka (Velký Ruskov) -- Nagytárkány (Velký Tarkan) Film #722756
        Rád (Rad) -- Rafajócz (Rafajovce) -- Rákócz (Rakovec nad Ondavou)
        Film #722770

        LOCATE YOUR NEAREST FAMILY HISTORY CENTER AND ORDER CENSUS FILM
        You can go to the LDS web site to locate your nearest Family History
        Center (FHC) and determine their hours of operation. You will need to
        go there in person to order the film(s). In about a month, the film
        will arrive and you can book a film reader and begin your research.
        www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp
      • johnqadam
        Based upon current phone listings, which by themselves prove nothing, I would bet on the more northern location. That implies Rakovec nad Ondavou. Good luck.
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 24 2:30 PM
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          Based upon current phone listings, which by themselves prove nothing, I
          would bet on the more northern location. That implies Rakovec nad
          Ondavou.

          Good luck.
        • helene cincebeaux
          HI Checked the Slovak Pride data base and found 11 Yuhas listings one is actually from Rakovec na Ond. Also found one Kraly listed - from Ruske Zemplin. get
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 24 2:40 PM
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            HI

            Checked the Slovak Pride data base and found 11 Yuhas listings

            one is actually from Rakovec na Ond.

            Also found one Kraly listed - from Ruske Zemplin.

            get back to me if you want more info on how to contact the listers

            helene
            helenezx@...

            pdbennett_52 <pbennett@...> wrote:
            I am trying to track down the ancestral village of my
            great-grandfather, Michael Cralley (originally Kraly), who emigrated
            from Hungary around 1880. We have no family information about the
            Kraly family, except that Michael's sister, Barbara Kraly married John
            Yuhasz (originally Juhasz), who also left Hungary around the same time
            for England, and then the U.S. We are hoping that the Kraly family
            came from the same or a nearby village as the Yuhasz family. The
            Yuhasz family history shows them coming from Velky Rakovec or Velky
            Rakovicz, of Zemplen province in Upper Hungary. Is this town the
            present-day Rakovec nad Ondavou in the Kosice region of Slovakia?






            ---------------------------------
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • pdbennett_52
            Thanks to all who replied to my post! At least the field of possible villages seems to be narrowed down to 2 or perhaps 3 candidates. I have already ordered
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 25 12:27 PM
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              Thanks to all who replied to my post! At least the field of possible
              villages seems to be narrowed down to 2 or perhaps 3 candidates. I have
              already ordered the FHL census film for Rakovec nad Ondavou. In the
              meantime, I am trying to check family history to see if I can find the
              Hungarian name of this village. I'll post what I find when I have
              something more definitive to report.

              Phil
            • genealogyslovakia
              Velky Rakovec is in Ukraine! Rakovec nad ondavou is a wrong way of searching. Juraj see my website - www.cisarik.com ... possible ... have ... the
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 25 2:31 PM
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                Velky Rakovec is in Ukraine!
                Rakovec nad ondavou is a wrong way of searching.
                Juraj
                see my website -
                www.cisarik.com


                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "pdbennett_52" <pbennett@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Thanks to all who replied to my post! At least the field of
                possible
                > villages seems to be narrowed down to 2 or perhaps 3 candidates. I
                have
                > already ordered the FHL census film for Rakovec nad Ondavou. In the
                > meantime, I am trying to check family history to see if I can find
                the
                > Hungarian name of this village. I'll post what I find when I have
                > something more definitive to report.
                >
                > Phil
                >
              • johnqadam
                ... How do you reconcile that with Zemplen Megye? Where in Ukraine? Can you point it out on the 1910 map at http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg
                Message 7 of 15 , Apr 25 3:02 PM
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                  >>> Velky Rakovec is in Ukraine!<<<

                  How do you reconcile that with Zemplen Megye? Where in Ukraine? Can you
                  point it out on the 1910 map at
                  http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg
                • Juraj Cisarik
                  This village is on: http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/ugocsa.jpg see the right top corner of the map, there is N.Rakocz Juraj names of villages are on my
                  Message 8 of 15 , Apr 25 11:33 PM
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                    This village is on:
                    http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/ugocsa.jpg
                    see the right top corner of the map, there is N.Rakocz

                    Juraj
                    names of villages are on my exact address of the site:
                    http://www.cisarik.com/Hungary-Slovak-names-of-villages-CENSUS-1869.html


                    >From: "johnqadam" <johnqadam@...>
                    >Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: [S-R] Re: looking for Velky Rakovicz
                    >Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:02:43 -0000
                    >
                    > >>> Velky Rakovec is in Ukraine!<<<
                    >
                    >How do you reconcile that with Zemplen Megye? Where in Ukraine? Can you
                    >point it out on the 1910 map at
                    >http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    _________________________________________________________________
                    Potrebujete vediet, ake pocasie bude na Slovensku aj vo svete.
                    http://www.msn.sk/weather
                  • johnqadam
                    ... see the right top corner of the map, there is N.Rakocz
                    Message 9 of 15 , Apr 26 6:09 AM
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                      >>> This village is on: http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/ugocsa.jpg
                      see the right top corner of the map, there is N.Rakocz <<<

                      I agree that Nagy Rakocz shows up in Ugocsa Megye. That raises the
                      question of where the original poster got the Zemplen Megye information.
                    • pdbennett_52
                      ... Yes, I had also found Nagy Ra ko cz in the far northeast corner of the 1910 map of Ugocsa Megye after Juraj s original post about the Ukraine location. I
                      Message 10 of 15 , Apr 26 11:40 AM
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                        >
                        > I agree that Nagy Rakocz shows up in Ugocsa Megye. That raises the
                        > question of where the original poster got the Zemplen Megye information.
                        >

                        Yes, I had also found Nagy Ra'ko'cz in the far northeast corner of
                        the 1910 map of Ugocsa Megye after Juraj's original post about the
                        Ukraine location. I agree that this is a good potential candidate. The
                        problem now is that none of the possible sites fully agree with the
                        information I have, which come from various documents passed down in
                        the family. I'm working third-hand here since I don't have these in my
                        possession, but I have requested copies so that I can examine these
                        directly. Again, the information I have been told (by my cousin,
                        quoting directly) is:

                        "I also looked at a partial copy of something Irene sent me. It shows
                        the Yuhasz family coming from Rakocz, which I think is Rakovec in
                        Hungarian."

                        and a quote from another e-mail:

                        "I looked at the book I have from Irene called Opportunity Realized:
                        The Greek Catholic Union's First One Hundred Years 1892-1992... I have
                        Michel Yuhasz's village as Velky Rakovec, Zemplin County,
                        Subcarpathian Rus' [I understand this to mean the information came
                        from the GCU book]. I found this town on a 1906 map I received, and
                        don't know if it is the same today."

                        and a later response, after I'd suggested Rakovec nad Ondavou as the
                        possible village in modern-day Slovakia:

                        "Anyway, I checked the book, Opportunity Realized, and that is where I
                        saw Velky Rakovicz, not Rakovec nad Ondavou. I had written in notes
                        that this is the correct name from the man in Pittsburgh I called for
                        the 1906 map..."

                        So the information I have so far from family records implies the
                        village was really Velky Rakovicz (or Rakovec) in Zemplen megye of
                        pre-WWI Hungary.

                        This is all I know from the family directly. I have not been able to
                        find other documentation confirming this information. The best I have
                        been able to do is glean a sense of the region from which the Yuhasz's
                        emigrated from data appearing on census forms over several decades, as
                        political boundaries changed. The Yuhasz family left Hungary in 1884,
                        and came to England. The English 1891 and 1901 censuses give the
                        Yuhasz family members' birthplace as Hungary and Austria respectively.
                        The family immigrated to the U.S. from England in 1905. The US 1910
                        census gives their place of birth as Hungary-Ruthenia. In 1920, this
                        appears as Rusinia, and in 1930 as Czechoslovakia. A son's WWII US
                        registration card only gives Czechoslovakia as the place of birth (the
                        form asks for the town, but unfortunately, that is all that was
                        given). A biographical excerpt published in 1922 states that one of
                        the Yuhasz brothers was born in Upper Hungary, Carpathian Mountains,
                        Czechoslovakia, again, unfortunately, with no village mentioned. All
                        of these general locations are consistent with the three most
                        promising candidate villages mentioned on this thread:

                        1. Rakovec nad Ondavou, Slovakia = Ra'ko'cz, Zemplen FHL # 722770
                        2. Velke' Raskovce, Slovakia = Nagyra'ska, Zemplen: FHL # 722755
                        3. Velykyi Rakovets, Ukraine = Nagy Ra'Ko'cz, Ugocsa: not filmed?

                        I'm hoping the village is not in Ukraine, because I don't believe any
                        of the Ugocsa 1869 census records and church records have been filmed
                        by the LDS. In this case, trying to find the Yuhasz family in the
                        ancestral village will come to a sudden dead end. However, family
                        records indicate the village was in Zemplen county. I believe it more
                        likely that the village name has been garbled than the county name has
                        been passed down incorrectly. So I still favor Rakovec nad Ond.

                        Phil
                      • Rich Custer
                        Well, now this becomes somewhat clearer. Michael Juhasz of the Greek Catholic Union was absolutely born in Rakovec nad Ondavou in Zemplen County, not Velykyj
                        Message 11 of 15 , Apr 26 12:01 PM
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                          Well, now this becomes somewhat clearer.

                          Michael Juhasz of the Greek Catholic Union was
                          absolutely born in Rakovec nad Ondavou in Zemplen
                          County, not Velykyj Rakovec in Ugocsa county. Many
                          of the early leaders of the Greek Catholic Union
                          were also from villages around Vranov and Trebisov,
                          yet despite this being Slovak ethnographic territory
                          today, they called themselves Rusins /
                          Carpatho-Russians.

                          If the GCU used as their reference for _Opportunity
                          Realized_ the "Ethnographic Map of Uhro-Rus', 1906"
                          by Andrew Perejda and distributed by the Byzantine
                          Catholic Eparchy of Passaic, that explains the
                          discrepancy in the village name as stated in
                          _Opportunity Realized_. That map is riddled with
                          errors as far as the village names are concerned.

                          ---- Original message ----

                          Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:40:51 -0000
                          From: "pdbennett_52" <pbennett@...>
                          Subject: [S-R] Re: looking for Velky Rakovicz
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

                          >

                          > I agree that Nagy Rakocz shows up in Ugocsa
                          Megye. That raises the

                          > question of where the original poster got the
                          Zemplen Megye information.

                          >

                          Yes, I had also found Nagy Ra'ko'cz in the far
                          northeast corner of

                          the 1910 map of Ugocsa Megye after Juraj's
                          original post about the

                          Ukraine location. I agree that this is a good
                          potential candidate. The

                          problem now is that none of the possible sites
                          fully agree with the

                          information I have, which come from various
                          documents passed down in

                          the family. I'm working third-hand here since I
                          don't have these in my

                          possession, but I have requested copies so that I
                          can examine these

                          directly. Again, the information I have been told
                          (by my cousin,

                          quoting directly) is:

                          "I also looked at a partial copy of something
                          Irene sent me. It shows

                          the Yuhasz family coming from Rakocz, which I
                          think is Rakovec in

                          Hungarian."

                          and a quote from another e-mail:

                          "I looked at the book I have from Irene called
                          Opportunity Realized:

                          The Greek Catholic Union's First One Hundred Years
                          1892-1992... I have

                          Michel Yuhasz's village as Velky Rakovec, Zemplin
                          County,

                          Subcarpathian Rus' [I understand this to mean the
                          information came

                          from the GCU book]. I found this town on a 1906
                          map I received, and

                          don't know if it is the same today."

                          and a later response, after I'd suggested Rakovec
                          nad Ondavou as the

                          possible village in modern-day Slovakia:

                          "Anyway, I checked the book, Opportunity Realized,
                          and that is where I

                          saw Velky Rakovicz, not Rakovec nad Ondavou. I had
                          written in notes

                          that this is the correct name from the man in
                          Pittsburgh I called for

                          the 1906 map..."

                          So the information I have so far from family
                          records implies the

                          village was really Velky Rakovicz (or Rakovec) in
                          Zemplen megye of

                          pre-WWI Hungary.

                          This is all I know from the family directly. I
                          have not been able to

                          find other documentation confirming this
                          information. The best I have

                          been able to do is glean a sense of the region
                          from which the Yuhasz's

                          emigrated from data appearing on census forms over
                          several decades, as

                          political boundaries changed. The Yuhasz family
                          left Hungary in 1884,

                          and came to England. The English 1891 and 1901
                          censuses give the

                          Yuhasz family members' birthplace as Hungary and
                          Austria respectively.

                          The family immigrated to the U.S. from England in
                          1905. The US 1910

                          census gives their place of birth as
                          Hungary-Ruthenia. In 1920, this

                          appears as Rusinia, and in 1930 as Czechoslovakia.
                          A son's WWII US

                          registration card only gives Czechoslovakia as the
                          place of birth (the

                          form asks for the town, but unfortunately, that is
                          all that was

                          given). A biographical excerpt published in 1922
                          states that one of

                          the Yuhasz brothers was born in Upper Hungary,
                          Carpathian Mountains,

                          Czechoslovakia, again, unfortunately, with no
                          village mentioned. All

                          of these general locations are consistent with the
                          three most

                          promising candidate villages mentioned on this
                          thread:

                          1. Rakovec nad Ondavou, Slovakia = Ra'ko'cz,
                          Zemplen FHL # 722770

                          2. Velke' Raskovce, Slovakia = Nagyra'ska,
                          Zemplen: FHL # 722755

                          3. Velykyi Rakovets, Ukraine = Nagy Ra'Ko'cz,
                          Ugocsa: not filmed?

                          I'm hoping the village is not in Ukraine, because
                          I don't believe any

                          of the Ugocsa 1869 census records and church
                          records have been filmed

                          by the LDS. In this case, trying to find the
                          Yuhasz family in the

                          ancestral village will come to a sudden dead end.
                          However, family

                          records indicate the village was in Zemplen
                          county. I believe it more

                          likely that the village name has been garbled than
                          the county name has

                          been passed down incorrectly. So I still favor
                          Rakovec nad Ond.

                          Phil




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • david1law@aol.com
                          Hi Phil: Just a little clarification regarding place name suffixes, the -OCZ suffix is Hungarian, and the -OVEC is Slovak. Best regards, David
                          Message 12 of 15 , Apr 26 12:06 PM
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                            Hi Phil:

                            Just a little clarification regarding place name suffixes, the -OCZ suffix
                            is Hungarian, and the -OVEC is Slovak.

                            Best regards,

                            David



                            ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Juraj Cisarik
                            hello, here is a link of schematizmus of the village Rakovec nad Ondavou: http://www.cisarik.com/MINISCHEMATIZMUS-prq.htm chronology of reverends in the
                            Message 13 of 15 , Apr 26 1:27 PM
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                              hello,

                              here is a link of schematizmus of the village Rakovec nad Ondavou:
                              http://www.cisarik.com/MINISCHEMATIZMUS-prq.htm
                              chronology of reverends in the village:

                              Danielovi� Georgius 1800 - 1849 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                              Pajkossy Josephus 1849 - 1866 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                              Slavik Paulus 1866 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                              Zabava Michael 1866 - 1867 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                              Balogh Josephus 1867 - 1876 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                              Starecky Nicolaus 1876 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                              Novak Joannes 1876 - 1877 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                              Kallok Paulus 1877 - 1878 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                              Precechtely Eugenius 1878 - 1880 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                              Gulovic Nicolaus 1887 - 1888 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                              Dudic Joannes 1888 - 1932 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                              Pajkossy Julius 1897 - 1900 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                              Pahy Gregorius 1927 - 1929 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                              Sereghy Josephus 1929 - 1931 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                              Tink Antonius 1932 - 1948 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                              Tink Desiderius 1940 - 1941 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                              Seman Joannes 1941 - 1948 (M) Rakovec nad Ondavou

                              (M)means Mukacevo eparchy/not Presov!/

                              I have a family tree of reverends: Seman, Tink, Sereghy, Dudic, Gulovic.

                              I was there last summer and I took all pictures of graves older then 40
                              years.
                              There are two churches. Older one near to the cemetery is not used by mass
                              services and
                              downthere near to the road is new greekcath. church - built just recently.

                              Juraj


                              >From: Rich Custer <rcuster@...>
                              >Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              >Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: looking for Velky Rakovicz
                              >Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:01:23 -0400 (EDT)
                              >
                              >Well, now this becomes somewhat clearer.
                              >
                              >Michael Juhasz of the Greek Catholic Union was
                              >absolutely born in Rakovec nad Ondavou in Zemplen
                              >County, not Velykyj Rakovec in Ugocsa county. Many
                              >of the early leaders of the Greek Catholic Union
                              >were also from villages around Vranov and Trebisov,
                              >yet despite this being Slovak ethnographic territory
                              >today, they called themselves Rusins /
                              >Carpatho-Russians.
                              >
                              >If the GCU used as their reference for _Opportunity
                              >Realized_ the "Ethnographic Map of Uhro-Rus', 1906"
                              >by Andrew Perejda and distributed by the Byzantine
                              >Catholic Eparchy of Passaic, that explains the
                              >discrepancy in the village name as stated in
                              >_Opportunity Realized_. That map is riddled with
                              >errors as far as the village names are concerned.
                              >
                              >---- Original message ----
                              >

                              _________________________________________________________________
                              MSN Pocasie vam umozni naplanovat si den a tyzden..
                              http://www.msn.sk/weather
                            • pdbennett_52
                              ... Rich, thanks for this confirmation! Your map reference sounds like it is indeed the one being referred to, although I can t be certain until I receive
                              Message 14 of 15 , Apr 26 8:27 PM
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                                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Rich Custer <rcuster@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Well, now this becomes somewhat clearer.
                                >
                                > Michael Juhasz of the Greek Catholic Union was
                                > absolutely born in Rakovec nad Ondavou in Zemplen
                                > County, not Velykyj Rakovec in Ugocsa county. Many
                                > of the early leaders of the Greek Catholic Union
                                > were also from villages around Vranov and Trebisov,
                                > yet despite this being Slovak ethnographic territory
                                > today, they called themselves Rusins /
                                > Carpatho-Russians.
                                >
                                > If the GCU used as their reference for _Opportunity
                                > Realized_ the "Ethnographic Map of Uhro-Rus', 1906"
                                > by Andrew Perejda and distributed by the Byzantine
                                > Catholic Eparchy of Passaic, that explains the
                                > discrepancy in the village name as stated in
                                > _Opportunity Realized_. That map is riddled with
                                > errors as far as the village names are concerned.
                                >

                                Rich, thanks for this confirmation! Your map reference sounds like
                                it is indeed the one being referred to, although I can't be certain
                                until I receive copies of the documentation now in the mail.

                                Michael Juhasz (Yuhasz) was very active in the Greek Catholic Union
                                in the early 1900s, and served in many exective positions, including
                                president. May I ask the source of your information about his
                                birthplace? I'm not doubting you -- rather I just want to document my
                                sources for future reference. I really do appreciate your help in
                                resolving this!

                                Phil
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