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Re: [S-R] Battle of Dukla Pass - May 5, 2007 - Bridgeport, CT

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  • William F Brna
    Why do we have to keep glorifying war? Isn t it horrible enough that ...over 138,000 casualties happened in ...one of the bloodiest conflagrations ? Now,
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 7, 2007
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      Why do we have to keep glorifying war? Isn't it horrible enough that
      "...over 138,000" casualties happened in "...one of the bloodiest
      conflagrations"? Now, during the holiest season in the Christian
      calendar, we should be praying for the 138,000 casualties, and pleading
      with God to give us the grace to follow His teachings so that there will
      be no further wars.

      William F. Brna

      On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 18:18:52 -0000 "Bill Tarkulich"
      <bill.tarkulich@...> writes:

      BATTLE OF THE DUKLA PASS LECTURE

      BRIDGEPORT, CT, APRIL 20, 2007: The New England Chapter of the
      Carpatho-Rusyn Society will host an interesting lecture and slide
      presentation by noted historian, BILL TARKULICH, about the famous
      BATTLE OF THE DUKLA PASS. The event will take place at St. John the
      Baptist Carpatho-Russian Church at 364 Mill Hill Ave. Bridgeport CT,
      at 1:30 PM on Saturday May 5th, 2007

      The Battle of Dukla Pass occurred at the end of the Second World War
      in eastern Czechoslovakia. Many residents of southwestern Connecticut
      who are of Slovak, Carpatho-Rusyn or Czech descent will be interested
      in learning more about this event that took place in their parents'
      homelands.

      As the Russian and First Czechoslovak Armies moved across Poland in
      1944, they planned a quick diversion to aid the SNP-(Slovensko Narodne
      Povstanie / Slovak National Uprising) via the Dukla Pass. This
      diversion became one of the bloodiest conflagrations in Slovak history
      with casualties over 138,000. The combatants were Russian,
      Czechoslovak, and German. The lands were remote, wooded and sparsely
      populated.

      The Dukla Pass cuts through the Carpathian Mountains in Northeastern
      Slovakia- as a historic strategic pass way from Poland into the
      Hungarian Plains. The fighting occurred in a region populated by Rusyn
      villages. At one point more than 6O% of the First Czechoslovak Army
      were Rusyns. Special guest John Kulhan, a decorated member of the
      (Free) Czechoslovak Army Corps and one of the few remaining combatants
      will be in attendance.

      This very stirring lecture will take place at the Church Auditorium of
      St. John the Baptist Church Carpatho Russian Church at 364 Mill Hill
      Ave. Bridgeport Ct. at 1:30 PM on May 5, 2007. Admission is free!
      Refreshments served! Donations gratefully accepted.




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Michael Mojher
      William, Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. George Santayana Your point is a valid one. Any person of reason would pray for the
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 7, 2007
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        William,
        Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
        George Santayana
        Your point is a valid one. Any person of reason would pray for the casualties of war and mankind wouldn't have to resolve conflicts by war. With exception that no where does Bill say the point of the lecture is to glorify war. Our is your first sentence rhetorical?
        Michael Mojher
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: William F Brna
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 11:57 AM
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Battle of Dukla Pass - May 5, 2007 - Bridgeport, CT


        Why do we have to keep glorifying war? Isn't it horrible enough that
        "...over 138,000" casualties happened in "...one of the bloodiest
        conflagrations"? Now, during the holiest season in the Christian
        calendar, we should be praying for the 138,000 casualties, and pleading
        with God to give us the grace to follow His teachings so that there will
        be no further wars.

        William F. Brna

        On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 18:18:52 -0000 "Bill Tarkulich"
        <bill.tarkulich@...> writes:

        BATTLE OF THE DUKLA PASS LECTURE

        BRIDGEPORT, CT, APRIL 20, 2007: The New England Chapter of the
        Carpatho-Rusyn Society will host an interesting lecture and slide
        presentation by noted historian, BILL TARKULICH, about the famous
        BATTLE OF THE DUKLA PASS. The event will take place at St. John the
        Baptist Carpatho-Russian Church at 364 Mill Hill Ave. Bridgeport CT,
        at 1:30 PM on Saturday May 5th, 2007

        The Battle of Dukla Pass occurred at the end of the Second World War
        in eastern Czechoslovakia. Many residents of southwestern Connecticut
        who are of Slovak, Carpatho-Rusyn or Czech descent will be interested
        in learning more about this event that took place in their parents'
        homelands.

        As the Russian and First Czechoslovak Armies moved across Poland in
        1944, they planned a quick diversion to aid the SNP-(Slovensko Narodne
        Povstanie / Slovak National Uprising) via the Dukla Pass. This
        diversion became one of the bloodiest conflagrations in Slovak history
        with casualties over 138,000. The combatants were Russian,
        Czechoslovak, and German. The lands were remote, wooded and sparsely
        populated.

        The Dukla Pass cuts through the Carpathian Mountains in Northeastern
        Slovakia- as a historic strategic pass way from Poland into the
        Hungarian Plains. The fighting occurred in a region populated by Rusyn
        villages. At one point more than 6O% of the First Czechoslovak Army
        were Rusyns. Special guest John Kulhan, a decorated member of the
        (Free) Czechoslovak Army Corps and one of the few remaining combatants
        will be in attendance.

        This very stirring lecture will take place at the Church Auditorium of
        St. John the Baptist Church Carpatho Russian Church at 364 Mill Hill
        Ave. Bridgeport Ct. at 1:30 PM on May 5, 2007. Admission is free!
        Refreshments served! Donations gratefully accepted.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Milan Huba
        I agree that war is a terrible thing. But learning about our history is not glorifying war. To paraphrase George Santayana, those who fail to learn the
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 7, 2007
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          I agree that war is a terrible thing. But learning about our history is not
          glorifying war. To paraphrase George Santayana, those who fail to learn
          the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.



          Since you brought God into the picture, you might want to read your Old
          Testament. According to the Old Testament, God instructed the Children of
          Isreal to smite, or to make war, against the Canaanites. Not only were the
          Israelites told to attack and destroy the cities in the Land of Canaan, but
          they were also told to kill everybody including the women and children.

          Like you, I wish that there would be no further wars. But that is only a
          dream and will never become a reality. If we want to keep the freedoms that
          we have here in America, we must be prepared to fight and die for them.




          -----Original Message-----
          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
          Behalf Of William F Brna
          Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 12:58 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] Battle of Dukla Pass - May 5, 2007 - Bridgeport, CT


          Why do we have to keep glorifying war? Isn't it horrible enough that
          "...over 138,000" casualties happened in "...one of the bloodiest
          conflagrations"? Now, during the holiest season in the Christian
          calendar, we should be praying for the 138,000 casualties, and pleading
          with God to give us the grace to follow His teachings so that there will
          be no further wars.

          William F. Brna

          On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 18:18:52 -0000 "Bill Tarkulich"
          <bill.tarkulich@...> writes:

          BATTLE OF THE DUKLA PASS LECTURE

          BRIDGEPORT, CT, APRIL 20, 2007: The New England Chapter of the
          Carpatho-Rusyn Society will host an interesting lecture and slide
          presentation by noted historian, BILL TARKULICH, about the famous
          BATTLE OF THE DUKLA PASS. The event will take place at St. John the
          Baptist Carpatho-Russian Church at 364 Mill Hill Ave. Bridgeport CT,
          at 1:30 PM on Saturday May 5th, 2007

          The Battle of Dukla Pass occurred at the end of the Second World War
          in eastern Czechoslovakia. Many residents of southwestern Connecticut
          who are of Slovak, Carpatho-Rusyn or Czech descent will be interested
          in learning more about this event that took place in their parents'
          homelands.

          As the Russian and First Czechoslovak Armies moved across Poland in
          1944, they planned a quick diversion to aid the SNP-(Slovensko Narodne
          Povstanie / Slovak National Uprising) via the Dukla Pass. This
          diversion became one of the bloodiest conflagrations in Slovak history
          with casualties over 138,000. The combatants were Russian,
          Czechoslovak, and German. The lands were remote, wooded and sparsely
          populated.

          The Dukla Pass cuts through the Carpathian Mountains in Northeastern
          Slovakia- as a historic strategic pass way from Poland into the
          Hungarian Plains. The fighting occurred in a region populated by Rusyn
          villages. At one point more than 6O% of the First Czechoslovak Army
          were Rusyns. Special guest John Kulhan, a decorated member of the
          (Free) Czechoslovak Army Corps and one of the few remaining combatants
          will be in attendance.

          This very stirring lecture will take place at the Church Auditorium of
          St. John the Baptist Church Carpatho Russian Church at 364 Mill Hill
          Ave. Bridgeport Ct. at 1:30 PM on May 5, 2007. Admission is free!
          Refreshments served! Donations gratefully accepted.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • TR HOMEMAIL
          Well, that s the reason I despise the Old Testament authors as much as the Nazis. Same tribal-genocidal mindset. At least the Amish and Mennonites were able to
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 7, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Well, that's the reason I despise the Old Testament authors as much as the
            Nazis. Same tribal-genocidal mindset. At least the Amish and Mennonites were
            able to pick out decent parts of the Judeo-Christian religion and become
            pacifists.

            Thomas


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Milan Huba" <illy@...>
            To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 4:07 PM
            Subject: RE: [S-R] Battle of Dukla Pass - May 5, 2007 - Bridgeport, CT


            > I agree that war is a terrible thing. But learning about our history is
            not
            > glorifying war. To paraphrase George Santayana, those who fail to learn
            > the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.
            >
            >
            >
            > Since you brought God into the picture, you might want to read your Old
            > Testament. According to the Old Testament, God instructed the Children of
            > Isreal to smite, or to make war, against the Canaanites. Not only were
            the
            > Israelites told to attack and destroy the cities in the Land of Canaan,
            but
            > they were also told to kill everybody including the women and children.
            >
            > Like you, I wish that there would be no further wars. But that is only a
            > dream and will never become a reality. If we want to keep the freedoms
            that
            > we have here in America, we must be prepared to fight and die for them.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
            > Behalf Of William F Brna
            > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 12:58 PM
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [S-R] Battle of Dukla Pass - May 5, 2007 - Bridgeport, CT
            >
            >
            > Why do we have to keep glorifying war? Isn't it horrible enough that
            > "...over 138,000" casualties happened in "...one of the bloodiest
            > conflagrations"? Now, during the holiest season in the Christian
            > calendar, we should be praying for the 138,000 casualties, and pleading
            > with God to give us the grace to follow His teachings so that there will
            > be no further wars.
            >
            > William F. Brna
            >
            > On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 18:18:52 -0000 "Bill Tarkulich"
            > <bill.tarkulich@...> writes:
            >
            > BATTLE OF THE DUKLA PASS LECTURE
            >
            > BRIDGEPORT, CT, APRIL 20, 2007: The New England Chapter of the
            > Carpatho-Rusyn Society will host an interesting lecture and slide
            > presentation by noted historian, BILL TARKULICH, about the famous
            > BATTLE OF THE DUKLA PASS. The event will take place at St. John the
            > Baptist Carpatho-Russian Church at 364 Mill Hill Ave. Bridgeport CT,
            > at 1:30 PM on Saturday May 5th, 2007
            >
            > The Battle of Dukla Pass occurred at the end of the Second World War
            > in eastern Czechoslovakia. Many residents of southwestern Connecticut
            > who are of Slovak, Carpatho-Rusyn or Czech descent will be interested
            > in learning more about this event that took place in their parents'
            > homelands.
            >
            > As the Russian and First Czechoslovak Armies moved across Poland in
            > 1944, they planned a quick diversion to aid the SNP-(Slovensko Narodne
            > Povstanie / Slovak National Uprising) via the Dukla Pass. This
            > diversion became one of the bloodiest conflagrations in Slovak history
            > with casualties over 138,000. The combatants were Russian,
            > Czechoslovak, and German. The lands were remote, wooded and sparsely
            > populated.
            >
            > The Dukla Pass cuts through the Carpathian Mountains in Northeastern
            > Slovakia- as a historic strategic pass way from Poland into the
            > Hungarian Plains. The fighting occurred in a region populated by Rusyn
            > villages. At one point more than 6O% of the First Czechoslovak Army
            > were Rusyns. Special guest John Kulhan, a decorated member of the
            > (Free) Czechoslovak Army Corps and one of the few remaining combatants
            > will be in attendance.
            >
            > This very stirring lecture will take place at the Church Auditorium of
            > St. John the Baptist Church Carpatho Russian Church at 364 Mill Hill
            > Ave. Bridgeport Ct. at 1:30 PM on May 5, 2007. Admission is free!
            > Refreshments served! Donations gratefully accepted.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
            SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • david1law@aol.com
            Dear William: I believe that you owe Bill Tarkulich a sincere apology. You jump to the conclusion that Bill is glorifying war without knowing the substance
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 7, 2007
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              Dear William:

              I believe that you owe Bill Tarkulich a sincere apology. You jump to the
              conclusion that Bill is glorifying war without knowing the substance of his
              lecture. War is a terrible thing, but sometimes it is necessary. I do,
              however, find your remarks terribly offensive. Those who do nothing when others
              such other people such as the millions of Jews and Slavs are being killed preach
              not peace and love but evil. And those who gave their lives fighting for
              their country, their families, their neighbors, and their friends deserved to be
              remembered for their sacrifice and their admirable actions. As Jesus
              himself said: "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for
              his friends." (The Gospel of John 15;13). That is the true message of Easter.
              And that is the same reason why the 138,000+ as well as all others who
              sacrificed their lives in the war need to be remembered. My own great
              grandfather FRANTISZEK MOSKAL died near Dukla Pass in World War I, and his name is on a
              war memorial near Krosno, Poland along with along with a number of other
              Poles who gave their lives fighting for their country, their family, and their
              friends. Another cousin PAUL LEHOCKY died in World War II. Had the fallen
              not died in the war, how many others would have died while the foolish and/or
              the evil stood by and did nothing?

              And frankly, William, your prayer at the end of your e-mail about no further
              wars is UNBIBLICAL as well and defies God's word. Revelation 12:7 foretells
              that there will be future wars against evil: "And war broke out in heaven:
              Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels
              fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any
              longer." William, you need to read the bible more and in a greater and
              clearer context and not unwittingly distort God's message. No sane person wants
              war, but war is sometimes necessary to defeat evil. I do believe that you
              still owe Bill Tarkulich and the others in this forum a sincere apology for
              your earlier remarks, and would recommend that you read those passages in
              John's Gospel and in Revelation in their greater context so you will see the error
              of your earlier remarks. I do forgive you and wish you a Happy Easter.


              Sincerely,


              David Michael Baloga



              ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Edie
              Oh, it s not the OT authors, it s human beings or human nature. I agree with the others that we need to study history so as not to repeat the mistakes of the
              Message 6 of 13 , Apr 7, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Oh, it's not the OT authors, it's human beings or human nature. I agree with the others that we need to study history so as not to repeat the mistakes of the past.
                edie

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: TR HOMEMAIL
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 2:49 PM
                Subject: Re: [S-R] Battle of Dukla Pass - May 5, 2007 - Bridgeport, CT


                Well, that's the reason I despise the Old Testament authors as much as the
                Nazis. Same tribal-genocidal mindset. At least the Amish and Mennonites were
                able to pick out decent parts of the Judeo-Christian religion and become
                pacifists.

                Thomas

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Milan Huba" <illy@...>
                To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 4:07 PM
                Subject: RE: [S-R] Battle of Dukla Pass - May 5, 2007 - Bridgeport, CT

                > I agree that war is a terrible thing. But learning about our history is
                not
                > glorifying war. To paraphrase George Santayana, those who fail to learn
                > the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.
                >
                >
                >
                > Since you brought God into the picture, you might want to read your Old
                > Testament. According to the Old Testament, God instructed the Children of
                > Isreal to smite, or to make war, against the Canaanites. Not only were
                the
                > Israelites told to attack and destroy the cities in the Land of Canaan,
                but
                > they were also told to kill everybody including the women and children.
                >
                > Like you, I wish that there would be no further wars. But that is only a
                > dream and will never become a reality. If we want to keep the freedoms
                that
                > we have here in America, we must be prepared to fight and die for them.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
                > Behalf Of William F Brna
                > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 12:58 PM
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [S-R] Battle of Dukla Pass - May 5, 2007 - Bridgeport, CT
                >
                >
                > Why do we have to keep glorifying war? Isn't it horrible enough that
                > "...over 138,000" casualties happened in "...one of the bloodiest
                > conflagrations"? Now, during the holiest season in the Christian
                > calendar, we should be praying for the 138,000 casualties, and pleading
                > with God to give us the grace to follow His teachings so that there will
                > be no further wars.
                >
                > William F. Brna
                >
                > On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 18:18:52 -0000 "Bill Tarkulich"
                > <bill.tarkulich@...> writes:
                >
                > BATTLE OF THE DUKLA PASS LECTURE
                >
                > BRIDGEPORT, CT, APRIL 20, 2007: The New England Chapter of the
                > Carpatho-Rusyn Society will host an interesting lecture and slide
                > presentation by noted historian, BILL TARKULICH, about the famous
                > BATTLE OF THE DUKLA PASS. The event will take place at St. John the
                > Baptist Carpatho-Russian Church at 364 Mill Hill Ave. Bridgeport CT,
                > at 1:30 PM on Saturday May 5th, 2007
                >
                > The Battle of Dukla Pass occurred at the end of the Second World War
                > in eastern Czechoslovakia. Many residents of southwestern Connecticut
                > who are of Slovak, Carpatho-Rusyn or Czech descent will be interested
                > in learning more about this event that took place in their parents'
                > homelands.
                >
                > As the Russian and First Czechoslovak Armies moved across Poland in
                > 1944, they planned a quick diversion to aid the SNP-(Slovensko Narodne
                > Povstanie / Slovak National Uprising) via the Dukla Pass. This
                > diversion became one of the bloodiest conflagrations in Slovak history
                > with casualties over 138,000. The combatants were Russian,
                > Czechoslovak, and German. The lands were remote, wooded and sparsely
                > populated.
                >
                > The Dukla Pass cuts through the Carpathian Mountains in Northeastern
                > Slovakia- as a historic strategic pass way from Poland into the
                > Hungarian Plains. The fighting occurred in a region populated by Rusyn
                > villages. At one point more than 6O% of the First Czechoslovak Army
                > were Rusyns. Special guest John Kulhan, a decorated member of the
                > (Free) Czechoslovak Army Corps and one of the few remaining combatants
                > will be in attendance.
                >
                > This very stirring lecture will take place at the Church Auditorium of
                > St. John the Baptist Church Carpatho Russian Church at 364 Mill Hill
                > Ave. Bridgeport Ct. at 1:30 PM on May 5, 2007. Admission is free!
                > Refreshments served! Donations gratefully accepted.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Bill Tarkulich
                Dear William Brna, There is no glory in war. This has always been my position. My presentation opens with the thought that my goal is to put a face on the
                Message 7 of 13 , Apr 7, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear William Brna,

                  There is no glory in war. This has always been my position.

                  My presentation opens with the thought that my goal is to "put a face on the
                  battle." It's not a presentation of statistics, tactics, armaments, blood,
                  guts and gore. It's a story of the people, the soldiers, the victims, the
                  innocents. It's a story about the villages, the people, life before, during
                  and afterwards. It's a story about churches that miraculously survived.
                  It's a story about people from distant lands buried in graveyards and long
                  since forgotten and un-prayed for. It's a story about what caused this
                  battle in the first place. It's a story about army generals who chickened
                  out. It's an objective look at what the Russians actually did to aid the
                  SNP. It's a story about Czechoslovak soldiers who didn't even know where
                  they were, in their own county. It's a story about our ancestors who were
                  forced to fight on the wrong side. It's a story about noble Rusyns who
                  risked their lives daily to run across the front to tell the Russians what
                  the Germans were up to. It's a story about the Babkas who had to live
                  through it all, then return to cleanup and start life anew.

                  The simple truth is that I only became interested in this battle when trying
                  to understand the lives of my ancestors and our people. To understand what
                  their lives is to understand the people. There is much misunderstanding of
                  what this battle was and what it did to our lands and our peoples. Even
                  today our people suffer the scars of this terrible event.

                  I don't dwell on these battles. They are but one piece of the puzzle of
                  what makes our people who they are today.

                  When I made this presentation to CRS New Jersey last year, the audience of
                  nearly 100 exhibited far more appreciation than I anticipated. The audience
                  was filled with Rusyns, Slovaks, nationals armed forces officers and college
                  professors. Most people's comments were summarized by one remark, "I had no
                  idea."

                  I was driven to create this presentation because of the dearth of Western
                  knowledge of the sacrifices made on the Ukrainian Front by soldiers and
                  citizens alike.

                  The monuments at Dukla are a respectful appreciation for the sacrifices made
                  by our countrymen. It demands you be respectful, retrospective, quiet,
                  appreciative and prayerful. They glorify nothing.

                  Regards,

                  Bill Tarkulich

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: William F Brna [mailto:wfbrna@...]
                  Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 2:58 PM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Battle of Dukla Pass - May 5, 2007 - Bridgeport, CT

                  Why do we have to keep glorifying war? Isn't it horrible enough that
                  "...over 138,000" casualties happened in "...one of the bloodiest
                  conflagrations"? Now, during the holiest season in the Christian
                  calendar, we should be praying for the 138,000 casualties, and pleading
                  with God to give us the grace to follow His teachings so that there will
                  be no further wars.

                  William F. Brna

                  On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 18:18:52 -0000 "Bill Tarkulich"
                  <bill.tarkulich@...> writes:

                  BATTLE OF THE DUKLA PASS LECTURE
                • Andrea Vangor
                  You are a real man, Bill. My thanks and admiration. ... From: Bill Tarkulich To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 4:15 PM Subject:
                  Message 8 of 13 , Apr 7, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    You are a real man, Bill. My thanks and admiration.

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Bill Tarkulich
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 4:15 PM
                    Subject: RE: [S-R] Battle of Dukla Pass - May 5, 2007 - Bridgeport, CT


                    Dear William Brna,

                    There is no glory in war. This has always been my position.

                    My presentation opens with the thought that my goal is to "put a face on the
                    battle." It's not a presentation of statistics, tactics, armaments, blood,
                    guts and gore. It's a story of the people, the soldiers, the victims, the
                    innocents. It's a story about the villages, the people, life before, during
                    and afterwards. It's a story about churches that miraculously survived.
                    It's a story about people from distant lands buried in graveyards and long
                    since forgotten and un-prayed for. It's a story about what caused this
                    battle in the first place. It's a story about army generals who chickened
                    out. It's an objective look at what the Russians actually did to aid the
                    SNP. It's a story about Czechoslovak soldiers who didn't even know where
                    they were, in their own county. It's a story about our ancestors who were
                    forced to fight on the wrong side. It's a story about noble Rusyns who
                    risked their lives daily to run across the front to tell the Russians what
                    the Germans were up to. It's a story about the Babkas who had to live
                    through it all, then return to cleanup and start life anew.

                    The simple truth is that I only became interested in this battle when trying
                    to understand the lives of my ancestors and our people. To understand what
                    their lives is to understand the people. There is much misunderstanding of
                    what this battle was and what it did to our lands and our peoples. Even
                    today our people suffer the scars of this terrible event.

                    I don't dwell on these battles. They are but one piece of the puzzle of
                    what makes our people who they are today.

                    When I made this presentation to CRS New Jersey last year, the audience of
                    nearly 100 exhibited far more appreciation than I anticipated. The audience
                    was filled with Rusyns, Slovaks, nationals armed forces officers and college
                    professors. Most people's comments were summarized by one remark, "I had no
                    idea."

                    I was driven to create this presentation because of the dearth of Western
                    knowledge of the sacrifices made on the Ukrainian Front by soldiers and
                    citizens alike.

                    The monuments at Dukla are a respectful appreciation for the sacrifices made
                    by our countrymen. It demands you be respectful, retrospective, quiet,
                    appreciative and prayerful. They glorify nothing.

                    Regards,

                    Bill Tarkulich

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: William F Brna [mailto:wfbrna@...]
                    Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 2:58 PM
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [S-R] Battle of Dukla Pass - May 5, 2007 - Bridgeport, CT

                    Why do we have to keep glorifying war? Isn't it horrible enough that
                    "...over 138,000" casualties happened in "...one of the bloodiest
                    conflagrations"? Now, during the holiest season in the Christian
                    calendar, we should be praying for the 138,000 casualties, and pleading
                    with God to give us the grace to follow His teachings so that there will
                    be no further wars.

                    William F. Brna

                    On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 18:18:52 -0000 "Bill Tarkulich"
                    <bill.tarkulich@...> writes:

                    BATTLE OF THE DUKLA PASS LECTURE





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Michael Mojher
                    Bill, Your reply, like your website, in one word -quality. Michael Mojher ... From: Bill Tarkulich To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 07,
                    Message 9 of 13 , Apr 7, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Bill,
                      Your reply, like your website, in one word -quality.
                      Michael Mojher

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Bill Tarkulich
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 4:15 PM
                      Subject: RE: [S-R] Battle of Dukla Pass - May 5, 2007 - Bridgeport, CT


                      Dear William Brna,

                      There is no glory in war. This has always been my position.

                      My presentation opens with the thought that my goal is to "put a face on the
                      battle." It's not a presentation of statistics, tactics, armaments, blood,
                      guts and gore. It's a story of the people, the soldiers, the victims, the
                      innocents. It's a story about the villages, the people, life before, during
                      and afterwards. It's a story about churches that miraculously survived.
                      It's a story about people from distant lands buried in graveyards and long
                      since forgotten and un-prayed for. It's a story about what caused this
                      battle in the first place. It's a story about army generals who chickened
                      out. It's an objective look at what the Russians actually did to aid the
                      SNP. It's a story about Czechoslovak soldiers who didn't even know where
                      they were, in their own county. It's a story about our ancestors who were
                      forced to fight on the wrong side. It's a story about noble Rusyns who
                      risked their lives daily to run across the front to tell the Russians what
                      the Germans were up to. It's a story about the Babkas who had to live
                      through it all, then return to cleanup and start life anew.

                      The simple truth is that I only became interested in this battle when trying
                      to understand the lives of my ancestors and our people. To understand what
                      their lives is to understand the people. There is much misunderstanding of
                      what this battle was and what it did to our lands and our peoples. Even
                      today our people suffer the scars of this terrible event.

                      I don't dwell on these battles. They are but one piece of the puzzle of
                      what makes our people who they are today.

                      When I made this presentation to CRS New Jersey last year, the audience of
                      nearly 100 exhibited far more appreciation than I anticipated. The audience
                      was filled with Rusyns, Slovaks, nationals armed forces officers and college
                      professors. Most people's comments were summarized by one remark, "I had no
                      idea."

                      I was driven to create this presentation because of the dearth of Western
                      knowledge of the sacrifices made on the Ukrainian Front by soldiers and
                      citizens alike.

                      The monuments at Dukla are a respectful appreciation for the sacrifices made
                      by our countrymen. It demands you be respectful, retrospective, quiet,
                      appreciative and prayerful. They glorify nothing.

                      Regards,

                      Bill Tarkulich

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: William F Brna [mailto:wfbrna@...]
                      Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 2:58 PM
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Battle of Dukla Pass - May 5, 2007 - Bridgeport, CT

                      Why do we have to keep glorifying war? Isn't it horrible enough that
                      "...over 138,000" casualties happened in "...one of the bloodiest
                      conflagrations"? Now, during the holiest season in the Christian
                      calendar, we should be praying for the 138,000 casualties, and pleading
                      with God to give us the grace to follow His teachings so that there will
                      be no further wars.

                      William F. Brna

                      On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 18:18:52 -0000 "Bill Tarkulich"
                      <bill.tarkulich@...> writes:

                      BATTLE OF THE DUKLA PASS LECTURE





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • William F Brna
                      David Baloga, david1law@aol.com wrote: I believe that you owe Bill Tarkulich a sincere apology. You jump to the conclusion that Bill is glorifying war
                      Message 10 of 13 , Apr 8, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        David Baloga, david1law@... wrote: "I believe that you owe Bill
                        Tarkulich a sincere apology. You jump to the conclusion that Bill is
                        glorifying war without knowing the substance of his lecture." I do not
                        agree. While it is true that I do not know the substance of his lecture,
                        he, himself, tells us in the subject space that his subject is the Battle
                        of Dukla Pass. If the battle is itself not the subject of his lecture,
                        he should have told us what the subject is. I cannot divine from the
                        stated subject that that is not what he is really going to talk about.

                        What is it about my remarks that you find to be terribly offensive? Is
                        it that I do not believe in glorifying war, or is it that I do not
                        believe that over 138,000 casualties is not something horrible? I prefer
                        to remember not those who gave their lives in battle but my Brna cousins
                        who are named among the Righteous Gentiles in the Holocaust Museum for
                        their efforts in saving the lives of several Jews.

                        Please explain to me how my prayer, asking God to give us the grace to
                        follow His teachings so that there will be no further wars, "...defies
                        God's word"? How have I distorted God's word?

                        Finally, I find your last sentence to be gratuitously offensive since I
                        need no apology from you and, frankly, could care less that you ",,,do
                        forgive ( me)."

                        William F. Brna
                      • david1law@aol.com
                        Dear William: Simply stated, you accused Bill Tarkulich of glorifying war without knowing the substance of his remarks. That is why I said you owed him an
                        Message 11 of 13 , Apr 8, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Dear William:

                          Simply stated, you accused Bill Tarkulich of glorifying war without knowing
                          the substance of his remarks. That is why I said you owed him an apology,
                          and that is why at least two others wrote that your comment about glorifying the
                          war was off the mark. If you don't know what the substance of his remarks
                          was going to be, as you acknowledge in your last e-mail, then you should not
                          have accused him of glorifying war, and Bill would not have had to spent
                          unnecessary time away from his family on Easter having to explain why he was not
                          glorifying war in his upcoming lecture. If you don't understand this, then
                          you don't. What was offensive about your remarks is your jumping to conclusion
                          that anyone who wanted to remember those who died are automatically
                          "glorifying" war. Those of us who have lost family members in war know that war is a
                          horrible thing. In many instances, we may have not only lost the ones who
                          actually died in the war but potential future generations as well. Your remark
                          about preferring not to remember those who gave their lives in battle
                          certainly shows your lack of sympathy to those whose family members have died in
                          battle. This same lack of sympathy was clearly evident in your earlier remark
                          about those who wanted to remember the 138,000+ who died in the Battle of
                          Dukla Pass as "glorifying" war. I can certainly understand wanting to remember
                          the heroic actions of family members who saved the lives of Jews and
                          definitely commend your family members who did. I also have family members who are
                          among the Polish righteous for saving Jews. In regard to your prayer for no
                          future wars, it contradicts God's word in the Book of Revelation, including
                          Revelation 12:7, as God certainly foretells that there will be future wars
                          against evil. God is certainly not a pacifist against evil. As for your remarks
                          about not accepting my forgiveness for your earlier remarks, especially on
                          this Easter Sunday, your own words speak volumes about yourself.

                          .
                          Sincerely,


                          David Michael Baloga



                          ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Jerry & Liz Dente
                          I seldom post because I don t feel nearly as knowledgeable as most other members however I felt I must comment on this discussion. As a genealogist my role is
                          Message 12 of 13 , Apr 9, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I seldom post because I don't feel nearly as knowledgeable as most other
                            members however I felt I must comment on this discussion.
                            As a genealogist my role is to research, document and pass on the history of
                            my ancestors. Many times I face people who say - let the past go - or only
                            write down the "good" things about our family - but I feel a duty to
                            preserve the whole, true story of my family - their hardships, their
                            mistakes and their bravery at facing the unknown to better their lives and
                            the lives of their families. When someone like Bill Tarkulich adds to my
                            knowledge and understanding of history by his research - I am so grateful.
                            As the wife and mother of soldiers - and as someone who has documented the
                            deaths of family members who died in war I am more than thankful when an
                            historian like Bill memorializes these sacrifices and places their loss in
                            the context of historical perspective.
                            When William mentions his relatives who helped the Jews during WWII I
                            commend those relatives but wonder what they would think of William's
                            comments? Do you think, during the war they were thinking - we don't want
                            those soldiers to come and help us? Do you think they thought it would be
                            glamorizing war to accept the liberation, salvation and freedom many
                            soldiers bought with their lives? I think his ancestors would be deeply
                            embarrassed by William's glib remarks - those who benefit from the blood and
                            sacrifice of others shouldn't be so quick to dismiss or judge their actions
                            when they have the safety of time and distance from those terrible events.
                            Elizabeth Dente




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                          • Evelyn Marsh
                            Thank you, Elizabeth and also David and Michael - I could not have expressed my feelings as well as you all have - I totally agree with you, thank you. I do
                            Message 13 of 13 , Apr 9, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Thank you, Elizabeth and also David and Michael - I could not have expressed my feelings as well as you all have - I totally agree with you, thank you. I do hope the issue is now closed and William sees more clearly the reason for Bill's lecture - after all, we all had to study the Spanish, Revolution, Civil and WWI & II Wars in school - education never stops.

                              Evelyn

                              Jerry & Liz Dente <brookft@...> wrote:
                              I seldom post because I don't feel nearly as knowledgeable as most other
                              members however I felt I must comment on this discussion.
                              As a genealogist my role is to research, document and pass on the history of
                              my ancestors. Many times I face people who say - let the past go - or only
                              write down the "good" things about our family - but I feel a duty to
                              preserve the whole, true story of my family - their hardships, their
                              mistakes and their bravery at facing the unknown to better their lives and
                              the lives of their families. When someone like Bill Tarkulich adds to my
                              knowledge and understanding of history by his research - I am so grateful.
                              As the wife and mother of soldiers - and as someone who has documented the
                              deaths of family members who died in war I am more than thankful when an
                              historian like Bill memorializes these sacrifices and places their loss in
                              the context of historical perspective.
                              When William mentions his relatives who helped the Jews during WWII I
                              commend those relatives but wonder what they would think of William's
                              comments? Do you think, during the war they were thinking - we don't want
                              those soldiers to come and help us? Do you think they thought it would be
                              glamorizing war to accept the liberation, salvation and freedom many
                              soldiers bought with their lives? I think his ancestors would be deeply
                              embarrassed by William's glib remarks - those who benefit from the blood and
                              sacrifice of others shouldn't be so quick to dismiss or judge their actions
                              when they have the safety of time and distance from those terrible events.
                              Elizabeth Dente



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