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RE: [S-R] Re: Female Names in Church Records

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  • Janet Kozlay
    Well, I would partially agree. According to the Slovak-English online dictionary at http://www.otpalca.sk/, barbar means barbarian and is an obvious derivation
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 24, 2007
      Well, I would partially agree.



      According to the Slovak-English online dictionary at http://www.otpalca.sk/,
      barbar means barbarian and is an obvious derivation from Latin.



      However, it would be important to know if the name forms in the records are
      Slovak or Hungarian. The Hungarian name of Borbala is usually "translated"
      to the English name Barbara but may have a wholly different derivation.
      According to the opinion of Lajos Reich several years ago, the Hungarian
      name Borbala or Borbolya probably derives from the Hungarian word for a
      particular bush. He pointed out that many old Hungarian names were given
      Latin (or English) equivalents only because of a similarity in the names,
      not because of their actual derivation. Examples are Sandor/Alexander and
      Gyula/Julius.



      Janet





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • amiak27
      Gordon, I believe your experience with the names Pearl and Barbara , presuming that they belong to a specific and limited ethnic identity is quite common,
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 24, 2007
        Gordon,

        I believe your experience with the names "Pearl" and "Barbara",
        presuming that they "belong" to a specific and limited ethnic identity
        is quite common, and it is an experience we all go through as we
        discover the limits of our language and education. Most of us as
        Americans are limited to English, and the European history we are
        taught pretty well ends at the eastern French border, with a little
        coverage of Germany, and most of that history limited to warfare.

        Following up on the offered etymology links will broaden perspective
        and reveal many of these names are quite ancient and have many
        variations over time, cultures and languages. I want to say that we
        all go through this stage, but then again, there are many people who
        never do get so far, so take heart and keep digging!

        Ron

        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon Grening" <tanbutts@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Question for the group. I have found the name Pearl among many of
        my > female German ancestors. Just seems strange to me since I would
        think > that Pearl would be more of an English name than German. Any
        thoughts > on why this would be such a common Germanic name back in
        the 1800's.
        >
        > I also found a great-grandmother named Barbara. I find it strange
        that > Barabara would be used as a Slovak name. Again, I would think
        that > Barbara would be an English name.
        >
        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich"
        > <bill.tarkulich@> wrote:
        > >
        > > look here
        > > http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/sc/oconee/misc/foreign-names.txt
        > >
        >
      • amiak27
        Janet, I am rather surprised at the opinion of Lajos Reich that Sandor/Alexander are not related but are based only on sound. My experience is that Europeans
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 24, 2007
          Janet, I am rather surprised at the opinion of Lajos Reich that
          Sandor/Alexander are not related but are based only on sound. My
          experience is that Europeans - rather, Germans - will take a first
          name and form the diminutive with the second syllable. Thus I know an
          Alexander who is called Sander and a Josef who is called Seppel.

          I have no basis for saying Reich is wrong, and I don't know his
          qualifications. In a neighboring nation the relationship seems to be
          different.

          Ron

          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
          >
          > Well, I would partially agree.
          >
          >
          >
          > According to the Slovak-English online dictionary at
          http://www.otpalca.sk/, > barbar means barbarian and is an obvious
          derivation from Latin.
          >
          >
          >
          > However, it would be important to know if the name forms in the
          records are
          > Slovak or Hungarian. The Hungarian name of Borbala is usually
          "translated" > to the English name Barbara but may have a wholly
          different derivation.
          > According to the opinion of Lajos Reich several years ago, the
          Hungarian > name Borbala or Borbolya probably derives from the
          Hungarian word for a > particular bush. He pointed out that many old
          Hungarian names were given > Latin (or English) equivalents only
          because of a similarity in the names, > not because of their actual
          derivation. Examples are Sandor/Alexander and
          > Gyula/Julius.
          >
          >
          >
          > Janet
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • jcotteret
          ... According to the Slovak-English online dictionary at http://www.otpalca.sk/, ... barbarian is not an obvious derivation from Latin, since it comes from
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 25, 2007
            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
            >
            According to the Slovak-English online dictionary at
            http://www.otpalca.sk/,
            > barbar means barbarian and is an obvious derivation from Latin.
            >
            >
            >
            > Janet,
            barbarian is not an "obvious" derivation from Latin, since it comes
            from Ancient Greek "barbaros" meaning "someone who mumbles, who speaks
            unintelligibly" ( sounding like BR..BR..BR).
            Have a nice day.

            Regards
            Jacques
          • Janet Kozlay
            You are quite right about barbaros being Greek, not Latin. Another example is Jenõ, which becomes Eugene in English. Eugene has a Greek derivation meaning
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 25, 2007
              You are quite right about barbaros being Greek, not Latin.



              Another example is Jen�, which becomes Eugene in English. Eugene has a Greek
              derivation meaning well-born. But Jen� was one of the Seven Tribes that
              entered the Carpathian basin with Arpad.



              Gyula, which according to an article in Wikipedia, is "often associated"
              with the Latin name Julius, is also traced to a leader in that group in the
              10th century, either as a title or as a name, and is probably Khazar in
              origin.



              I cannot comment on Sandor/Alexander because I do not know Lajos Reich's
              reasoning. It may be that he was incorrect.



              Janet







              _____

              From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of jcotteret
              Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 3:03 AM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [S-R] Re: Female Names in Church Records



              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
              yahoogroups.com, "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
              >
              According to the Slovak-English online dictionary at
              http://www.otpalca <http://www.otpalca.sk/,> sk/,
              > barbar means barbarian and is an obvious derivation from Latin.
              >
              >
              >
              > Janet,
              barbarian is not an "obvious" derivation from Latin, since it comes
              from Ancient Greek "barbaros" meaning "someone who mumbles, who speaks
              unintelligibly" ( sounding like BR..BR..BR).
              Have a nice day.

              Regards
              Jacques





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • MA Bensh
              My son s name is Alexander and there are a few of his preschool classmates and teachers who refer to him as Zander . Also, someone told me that the TV show
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 26, 2007
                My son's name is Alexander and there are a few of his preschool classmates and teachers who refer to him as "Zander". Also, someone told me that the TV show Smallville (I think that was the one she said) has a Zander/Alexander.

                amiak27 <rmat@...> wrote: Janet, I am rather surprised at the opinion of Lajos Reich that
                Sandor/Alexander are not related but are based only on sound. My
                experience is that Europeans - rather, Germans - will take a first
                name and form the diminutive with the second syllable. Thus I know an
                Alexander who is called Sander and a Josef who is called Seppel.

                I have no basis for saying Reich is wrong, and I don't know his
                qualifications. In a neighboring nation the relationship seems to be
                different.

                Ron

                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
                >
                > Well, I would partially agree.
                >
                >
                >
                > According to the Slovak-English online dictionary at
                http://www.otpalca.sk/, > barbar means barbarian and is an obvious
                derivation from Latin.
                >
                >
                >
                > However, it would be important to know if the name forms in the
                records are
                > Slovak or Hungarian. The Hungarian name of Borbala is usually
                "translated" > to the English name Barbara but may have a wholly
                different derivation.
                > According to the opinion of Lajos Reich several years ago, the
                Hungarian > name Borbala or Borbolya probably derives from the
                Hungarian word for a > particular bush. He pointed out that many old
                Hungarian names were given > Latin (or English) equivalents only
                because of a similarity in the names, > not because of their actual
                derivation. Examples are Sandor/Alexander and
                > Gyula/Julius.
                >
                >
                >
                > Janet
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >






                Melissa

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