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Re: [S-R] Female Names in Church Records

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  • Nick Holcz
    You can always cut and paste files like that into excel and do text to columns and save as an xls file. Nick
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 24, 2007
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      You can always cut and paste files like that into excel and do text
      to columns and save as an xls file.

      Nick
    • helene cincebeaux
      Hi Gordon - have run across Barbora in Slovak geneaologies. helene Gordon Grening wrote: Thanks for the link reference Bill. I found
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 24, 2007
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        Hi Gordon -

        have run across Barbora in Slovak geneaologies.

        helene

        Gordon Grening <tanbutts@...> wrote:
        Thanks for the link reference Bill. I found it really useful. Saving
        it so that the names would line-up under the correct columns was a bit
        of a pain, but I finally figured out how to do it.

        Question for the group. I have found the name Pearl among many of my
        female German ancestors. Just seems strange to me since I would think
        that Pearl would be more of an English name than German. Any thoughts
        on why this would be such a common Germanic name back in the 1800's.

        I also found a great-grandmother named Barbara. I find it strange that
        Barabara would be used as a Slovak name. Again, I would think that
        Barbara would be an English name.

        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich"
        <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
        >
        > look here
        > http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/sc/oconee/misc/foreign-names.txt
        >






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      • johnqadam
        ... that Barbara would be used as a Slovak name. Again, I would think that Barbara would be an English name.
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 24, 2007
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          >>> I also found a great-grandmother named Barbara. I find it strange
          that Barbara would be used as a Slovak name. Again, I would think that
          Barbara would be an English name. <<<

          In Slovak records, it depends upon the politics of the day. The name
          could appear in its Latin, Slovak or Hungarian form. Barbara, Borbala,
          Borka -- take your pick. Just like Michael, Michal, Mihaly. John, Jan,
          Joannes. All variations on the theme.

          Janko
        • Janet Kozlay
          Well, I would partially agree. According to the Slovak-English online dictionary at http://www.otpalca.sk/, barbar means barbarian and is an obvious derivation
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 24, 2007
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            Well, I would partially agree.



            According to the Slovak-English online dictionary at http://www.otpalca.sk/,
            barbar means barbarian and is an obvious derivation from Latin.



            However, it would be important to know if the name forms in the records are
            Slovak or Hungarian. The Hungarian name of Borbala is usually "translated"
            to the English name Barbara but may have a wholly different derivation.
            According to the opinion of Lajos Reich several years ago, the Hungarian
            name Borbala or Borbolya probably derives from the Hungarian word for a
            particular bush. He pointed out that many old Hungarian names were given
            Latin (or English) equivalents only because of a similarity in the names,
            not because of their actual derivation. Examples are Sandor/Alexander and
            Gyula/Julius.



            Janet





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • amiak27
            Gordon, I believe your experience with the names Pearl and Barbara , presuming that they belong to a specific and limited ethnic identity is quite common,
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 24, 2007
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              Gordon,

              I believe your experience with the names "Pearl" and "Barbara",
              presuming that they "belong" to a specific and limited ethnic identity
              is quite common, and it is an experience we all go through as we
              discover the limits of our language and education. Most of us as
              Americans are limited to English, and the European history we are
              taught pretty well ends at the eastern French border, with a little
              coverage of Germany, and most of that history limited to warfare.

              Following up on the offered etymology links will broaden perspective
              and reveal many of these names are quite ancient and have many
              variations over time, cultures and languages. I want to say that we
              all go through this stage, but then again, there are many people who
              never do get so far, so take heart and keep digging!

              Ron

              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon Grening" <tanbutts@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Question for the group. I have found the name Pearl among many of
              my > female German ancestors. Just seems strange to me since I would
              think > that Pearl would be more of an English name than German. Any
              thoughts > on why this would be such a common Germanic name back in
              the 1800's.
              >
              > I also found a great-grandmother named Barbara. I find it strange
              that > Barabara would be used as a Slovak name. Again, I would think
              that > Barbara would be an English name.
              >
              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich"
              > <bill.tarkulich@> wrote:
              > >
              > > look here
              > > http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/sc/oconee/misc/foreign-names.txt
              > >
              >
            • amiak27
              Janet, I am rather surprised at the opinion of Lajos Reich that Sandor/Alexander are not related but are based only on sound. My experience is that Europeans
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 24, 2007
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                Janet, I am rather surprised at the opinion of Lajos Reich that
                Sandor/Alexander are not related but are based only on sound. My
                experience is that Europeans - rather, Germans - will take a first
                name and form the diminutive with the second syllable. Thus I know an
                Alexander who is called Sander and a Josef who is called Seppel.

                I have no basis for saying Reich is wrong, and I don't know his
                qualifications. In a neighboring nation the relationship seems to be
                different.

                Ron

                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
                >
                > Well, I would partially agree.
                >
                >
                >
                > According to the Slovak-English online dictionary at
                http://www.otpalca.sk/, > barbar means barbarian and is an obvious
                derivation from Latin.
                >
                >
                >
                > However, it would be important to know if the name forms in the
                records are
                > Slovak or Hungarian. The Hungarian name of Borbala is usually
                "translated" > to the English name Barbara but may have a wholly
                different derivation.
                > According to the opinion of Lajos Reich several years ago, the
                Hungarian > name Borbala or Borbolya probably derives from the
                Hungarian word for a > particular bush. He pointed out that many old
                Hungarian names were given > Latin (or English) equivalents only
                because of a similarity in the names, > not because of their actual
                derivation. Examples are Sandor/Alexander and
                > Gyula/Julius.
                >
                >
                >
                > Janet
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • jcotteret
                ... According to the Slovak-English online dictionary at http://www.otpalca.sk/, ... barbarian is not an obvious derivation from Latin, since it comes from
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 25, 2007
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                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
                  >
                  According to the Slovak-English online dictionary at
                  http://www.otpalca.sk/,
                  > barbar means barbarian and is an obvious derivation from Latin.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Janet,
                  barbarian is not an "obvious" derivation from Latin, since it comes
                  from Ancient Greek "barbaros" meaning "someone who mumbles, who speaks
                  unintelligibly" ( sounding like BR..BR..BR).
                  Have a nice day.

                  Regards
                  Jacques
                • Janet Kozlay
                  You are quite right about barbaros being Greek, not Latin. Another example is Jenõ, which becomes Eugene in English. Eugene has a Greek derivation meaning
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 25, 2007
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                    You are quite right about barbaros being Greek, not Latin.



                    Another example is Jen�, which becomes Eugene in English. Eugene has a Greek
                    derivation meaning well-born. But Jen� was one of the Seven Tribes that
                    entered the Carpathian basin with Arpad.



                    Gyula, which according to an article in Wikipedia, is "often associated"
                    with the Latin name Julius, is also traced to a leader in that group in the
                    10th century, either as a title or as a name, and is probably Khazar in
                    origin.



                    I cannot comment on Sandor/Alexander because I do not know Lajos Reich's
                    reasoning. It may be that he was incorrect.



                    Janet







                    _____

                    From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of jcotteret
                    Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 3:03 AM
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [S-R] Re: Female Names in Church Records



                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                    yahoogroups.com, "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
                    >
                    According to the Slovak-English online dictionary at
                    http://www.otpalca <http://www.otpalca.sk/,> sk/,
                    > barbar means barbarian and is an obvious derivation from Latin.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Janet,
                    barbarian is not an "obvious" derivation from Latin, since it comes
                    from Ancient Greek "barbaros" meaning "someone who mumbles, who speaks
                    unintelligibly" ( sounding like BR..BR..BR).
                    Have a nice day.

                    Regards
                    Jacques





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • MA Bensh
                    My son s name is Alexander and there are a few of his preschool classmates and teachers who refer to him as Zander . Also, someone told me that the TV show
                    Message 9 of 12 , Feb 26, 2007
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                      My son's name is Alexander and there are a few of his preschool classmates and teachers who refer to him as "Zander". Also, someone told me that the TV show Smallville (I think that was the one she said) has a Zander/Alexander.

                      amiak27 <rmat@...> wrote: Janet, I am rather surprised at the opinion of Lajos Reich that
                      Sandor/Alexander are not related but are based only on sound. My
                      experience is that Europeans - rather, Germans - will take a first
                      name and form the diminutive with the second syllable. Thus I know an
                      Alexander who is called Sander and a Josef who is called Seppel.

                      I have no basis for saying Reich is wrong, and I don't know his
                      qualifications. In a neighboring nation the relationship seems to be
                      different.

                      Ron

                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Well, I would partially agree.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > According to the Slovak-English online dictionary at
                      http://www.otpalca.sk/, > barbar means barbarian and is an obvious
                      derivation from Latin.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > However, it would be important to know if the name forms in the
                      records are
                      > Slovak or Hungarian. The Hungarian name of Borbala is usually
                      "translated" > to the English name Barbara but may have a wholly
                      different derivation.
                      > According to the opinion of Lajos Reich several years ago, the
                      Hungarian > name Borbala or Borbolya probably derives from the
                      Hungarian word for a > particular bush. He pointed out that many old
                      Hungarian names were given > Latin (or English) equivalents only
                      because of a similarity in the names, > not because of their actual
                      derivation. Examples are Sandor/Alexander and
                      > Gyula/Julius.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Janet
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >






                      Melissa

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