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Re: [S-R] Female Names in Church Records

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  • Gordon Grening
    Thanks for the link reference Bill. I found it really useful. Saving it so that the names would line-up under the correct columns was a bit of a pain, but I
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 24, 2007
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      Thanks for the link reference Bill. I found it really useful. Saving
      it so that the names would line-up under the correct columns was a bit
      of a pain, but I finally figured out how to do it.

      Question for the group. I have found the name Pearl among many of my
      female German ancestors. Just seems strange to me since I would think
      that Pearl would be more of an English name than German. Any thoughts
      on why this would be such a common Germanic name back in the 1800's.

      I also found a great-grandmother named Barbara. I find it strange that
      Barabara would be used as a Slovak name. Again, I would think that
      Barbara would be an English name.

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich"
      <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
      >
      > look here
      > http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/sc/oconee/misc/foreign-names.txt
      >
    • Nick Holcz
      You can always cut and paste files like that into excel and do text to columns and save as an xls file. Nick
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 24, 2007
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        You can always cut and paste files like that into excel and do text
        to columns and save as an xls file.

        Nick
      • helene cincebeaux
        Hi Gordon - have run across Barbora in Slovak geneaologies. helene Gordon Grening wrote: Thanks for the link reference Bill. I found
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 24, 2007
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          Hi Gordon -

          have run across Barbora in Slovak geneaologies.

          helene

          Gordon Grening <tanbutts@...> wrote:
          Thanks for the link reference Bill. I found it really useful. Saving
          it so that the names would line-up under the correct columns was a bit
          of a pain, but I finally figured out how to do it.

          Question for the group. I have found the name Pearl among many of my
          female German ancestors. Just seems strange to me since I would think
          that Pearl would be more of an English name than German. Any thoughts
          on why this would be such a common Germanic name back in the 1800's.

          I also found a great-grandmother named Barbara. I find it strange that
          Barabara would be used as a Slovak name. Again, I would think that
          Barbara would be an English name.

          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich"
          <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
          >
          > look here
          > http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/sc/oconee/misc/foreign-names.txt
          >






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        • johnqadam
          ... that Barbara would be used as a Slovak name. Again, I would think that Barbara would be an English name.
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 24, 2007
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            >>> I also found a great-grandmother named Barbara. I find it strange
            that Barbara would be used as a Slovak name. Again, I would think that
            Barbara would be an English name. <<<

            In Slovak records, it depends upon the politics of the day. The name
            could appear in its Latin, Slovak or Hungarian form. Barbara, Borbala,
            Borka -- take your pick. Just like Michael, Michal, Mihaly. John, Jan,
            Joannes. All variations on the theme.

            Janko
          • Janet Kozlay
            Well, I would partially agree. According to the Slovak-English online dictionary at http://www.otpalca.sk/, barbar means barbarian and is an obvious derivation
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 24, 2007
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              Well, I would partially agree.



              According to the Slovak-English online dictionary at http://www.otpalca.sk/,
              barbar means barbarian and is an obvious derivation from Latin.



              However, it would be important to know if the name forms in the records are
              Slovak or Hungarian. The Hungarian name of Borbala is usually "translated"
              to the English name Barbara but may have a wholly different derivation.
              According to the opinion of Lajos Reich several years ago, the Hungarian
              name Borbala or Borbolya probably derives from the Hungarian word for a
              particular bush. He pointed out that many old Hungarian names were given
              Latin (or English) equivalents only because of a similarity in the names,
              not because of their actual derivation. Examples are Sandor/Alexander and
              Gyula/Julius.



              Janet





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • amiak27
              Gordon, I believe your experience with the names Pearl and Barbara , presuming that they belong to a specific and limited ethnic identity is quite common,
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 24, 2007
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                Gordon,

                I believe your experience with the names "Pearl" and "Barbara",
                presuming that they "belong" to a specific and limited ethnic identity
                is quite common, and it is an experience we all go through as we
                discover the limits of our language and education. Most of us as
                Americans are limited to English, and the European history we are
                taught pretty well ends at the eastern French border, with a little
                coverage of Germany, and most of that history limited to warfare.

                Following up on the offered etymology links will broaden perspective
                and reveal many of these names are quite ancient and have many
                variations over time, cultures and languages. I want to say that we
                all go through this stage, but then again, there are many people who
                never do get so far, so take heart and keep digging!

                Ron

                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon Grening" <tanbutts@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Question for the group. I have found the name Pearl among many of
                my > female German ancestors. Just seems strange to me since I would
                think > that Pearl would be more of an English name than German. Any
                thoughts > on why this would be such a common Germanic name back in
                the 1800's.
                >
                > I also found a great-grandmother named Barbara. I find it strange
                that > Barabara would be used as a Slovak name. Again, I would think
                that > Barbara would be an English name.
                >
                > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich"
                > <bill.tarkulich@> wrote:
                > >
                > > look here
                > > http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/sc/oconee/misc/foreign-names.txt
                > >
                >
              • amiak27
                Janet, I am rather surprised at the opinion of Lajos Reich that Sandor/Alexander are not related but are based only on sound. My experience is that Europeans
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 24, 2007
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                  Janet, I am rather surprised at the opinion of Lajos Reich that
                  Sandor/Alexander are not related but are based only on sound. My
                  experience is that Europeans - rather, Germans - will take a first
                  name and form the diminutive with the second syllable. Thus I know an
                  Alexander who is called Sander and a Josef who is called Seppel.

                  I have no basis for saying Reich is wrong, and I don't know his
                  qualifications. In a neighboring nation the relationship seems to be
                  different.

                  Ron

                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Well, I would partially agree.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > According to the Slovak-English online dictionary at
                  http://www.otpalca.sk/, > barbar means barbarian and is an obvious
                  derivation from Latin.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > However, it would be important to know if the name forms in the
                  records are
                  > Slovak or Hungarian. The Hungarian name of Borbala is usually
                  "translated" > to the English name Barbara but may have a wholly
                  different derivation.
                  > According to the opinion of Lajos Reich several years ago, the
                  Hungarian > name Borbala or Borbolya probably derives from the
                  Hungarian word for a > particular bush. He pointed out that many old
                  Hungarian names were given > Latin (or English) equivalents only
                  because of a similarity in the names, > not because of their actual
                  derivation. Examples are Sandor/Alexander and
                  > Gyula/Julius.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Janet
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • jcotteret
                  ... According to the Slovak-English online dictionary at http://www.otpalca.sk/, ... barbarian is not an obvious derivation from Latin, since it comes from
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 25, 2007
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                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
                    >
                    According to the Slovak-English online dictionary at
                    http://www.otpalca.sk/,
                    > barbar means barbarian and is an obvious derivation from Latin.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Janet,
                    barbarian is not an "obvious" derivation from Latin, since it comes
                    from Ancient Greek "barbaros" meaning "someone who mumbles, who speaks
                    unintelligibly" ( sounding like BR..BR..BR).
                    Have a nice day.

                    Regards
                    Jacques
                  • Janet Kozlay
                    You are quite right about barbaros being Greek, not Latin. Another example is Jenõ, which becomes Eugene in English. Eugene has a Greek derivation meaning
                    Message 9 of 12 , Feb 25, 2007
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                      You are quite right about barbaros being Greek, not Latin.



                      Another example is Jen�, which becomes Eugene in English. Eugene has a Greek
                      derivation meaning well-born. But Jen� was one of the Seven Tribes that
                      entered the Carpathian basin with Arpad.



                      Gyula, which according to an article in Wikipedia, is "often associated"
                      with the Latin name Julius, is also traced to a leader in that group in the
                      10th century, either as a title or as a name, and is probably Khazar in
                      origin.



                      I cannot comment on Sandor/Alexander because I do not know Lajos Reich's
                      reasoning. It may be that he was incorrect.



                      Janet







                      _____

                      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of jcotteret
                      Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 3:03 AM
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [S-R] Re: Female Names in Church Records



                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                      yahoogroups.com, "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
                      >
                      According to the Slovak-English online dictionary at
                      http://www.otpalca <http://www.otpalca.sk/,> sk/,
                      > barbar means barbarian and is an obvious derivation from Latin.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Janet,
                      barbarian is not an "obvious" derivation from Latin, since it comes
                      from Ancient Greek "barbaros" meaning "someone who mumbles, who speaks
                      unintelligibly" ( sounding like BR..BR..BR).
                      Have a nice day.

                      Regards
                      Jacques





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • MA Bensh
                      My son s name is Alexander and there are a few of his preschool classmates and teachers who refer to him as Zander . Also, someone told me that the TV show
                      Message 10 of 12 , Feb 26, 2007
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                        My son's name is Alexander and there are a few of his preschool classmates and teachers who refer to him as "Zander". Also, someone told me that the TV show Smallville (I think that was the one she said) has a Zander/Alexander.

                        amiak27 <rmat@...> wrote: Janet, I am rather surprised at the opinion of Lajos Reich that
                        Sandor/Alexander are not related but are based only on sound. My
                        experience is that Europeans - rather, Germans - will take a first
                        name and form the diminutive with the second syllable. Thus I know an
                        Alexander who is called Sander and a Josef who is called Seppel.

                        I have no basis for saying Reich is wrong, and I don't know his
                        qualifications. In a neighboring nation the relationship seems to be
                        different.

                        Ron

                        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Well, I would partially agree.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > According to the Slovak-English online dictionary at
                        http://www.otpalca.sk/, > barbar means barbarian and is an obvious
                        derivation from Latin.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > However, it would be important to know if the name forms in the
                        records are
                        > Slovak or Hungarian. The Hungarian name of Borbala is usually
                        "translated" > to the English name Barbara but may have a wholly
                        different derivation.
                        > According to the opinion of Lajos Reich several years ago, the
                        Hungarian > name Borbala or Borbolya probably derives from the
                        Hungarian word for a > particular bush. He pointed out that many old
                        Hungarian names were given > Latin (or English) equivalents only
                        because of a similarity in the names, > not because of their actual
                        derivation. Examples are Sandor/Alexander and
                        > Gyula/Julius.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Janet
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >






                        Melissa

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