RE: [S-R] Family Movement - 1700's
- In my experience, you find both kinds of movement, both small and great.
During the period of the Ottoman Empire in Hungary, vast areas became
totally deserted. When the Turks were finally expelled, many people moved to
the previously unpopulated regions. I have found many families from Upper
Hungary, now Slovakia, who moved south, hundreds of miles away, especially
during the 1700s.
From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Adrienne Sowards
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 1:18 PM
Subject: [S-R] Family Movement - 1700's
I realize I'm asking for a lot of speculation, but I'm wondering about the
generalities. I know each family is different.
How often would families move from one village to another in the
1700-1800's? If they did move, would it generally be to a village a few
miles away, or would some families make a big move to a village hundreds of
I've been going over the 1715 census, and so far I've only found one surname
in the same village that they were still in in the mid-1800's. So far I'm
going thru each village in Saros, which has been a bit time consuming.
Turn searches into helpful donations. Make your search count.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- Julie is right-on the mark. She's addressing the right question.
Census 1715 is not a population census. It is a property census. It shows
the property owners and sometimes head of household. This is during serfdom
period - before the 1848 emancipation of serfs/peasants. Households tended
to be quite large - tons of people under one roof in peasant villages.
Census were to inventory taxable property only. *sometimes* non-property
owners (men) were listed when head of household, but not consistently.
In my village, no Tarkulic' were listed on the early census, even though I
know from other evidence they did exist. You are better off following back
the CHURCH records, this is probably the only written records of peasants
b/m/d. In this region, church records before the early 1700s are not very
common although having been ordered by the Hungary government in the 1500s.
Adoption of this decree was quickest in the cities and town (often 1500s
records are found), slowest in the rural hinterlands (early 1700s is
Now, onto "Reasons for Movement", a tangential discussion.
1. Many factors came into play, it's difficult to make generalizations.
As Thomas, Janet and David have noted, the Ottomans and the action of
property owners in the 1700s to establish villages were the largest reasons
for population transfers.
2. Towns and cities had a very different dynamics. Cities had factors of
self-defense relative affluence, existence of craftsmen and tradesmen, and
centers of political influence. Villages, primarily established and owned
by private landholders usually had none of the above.
3. Villages were subject to different influences depending on where they
were located eastern Slovakia has historically been economically poorer than
If I had to make a generalization, I'd say: a) that those who lived in/near
cities/towns or near major transportation routes were often the most mobile,
followed by b) certain occupations such as tradesmen (often Jews), shepards,
craftsmen. Lastly, land-bound rural peasants were the least mobile (in debt
to the landowner). As always, exceptions apply.
In summary, when seeking out reasons for your village, it is important to
study the history of your village. If you don't have a copy of the village
description from "mesta a obce" (a brief couple paragraph summary in
Slovak), I'm happy to email to anyone who asks.
From: J. Michutka [mailto:jmm@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [S-R] Family Movement - 1700's
At 01:18 PM 2/4/2007, you wrote:
>How often would families move from one village to another in thesurname
>I've been going over the 1715 census, and so far I've only found one
>in the same village that they were still in in the mid-1800's.This may be the blind leading the blind here, and I hope someone more
knowledgeable will jump in--I just found out about these records
myself a week ago. According to Bill Tarkulich's site about the census:
"This is a "Urbarim Register" (possession inventory) for the Feudal
Estates. It includes a listing of all village heads of household who
owned property and its description. ...Not very useful for genealogy
(family tree) research. "
So, it sounds like if a person wasn't head of household or a property
owner, they wouldn't show up. Doesn't necessarily mean they weren't there.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
To unsubscribe from this group, go to
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
Yahoo! Groups Links
- Thanks for everybody's comments and ideas about family movement in the 1700
and 1800's. Lots of good points and information!
Funny how I consider sitting down and clicking through every village in
Saros "tedious." Twenty years ago it would have been miraculous and speedy!
Anyone else searching the name "Krajczer" out there? They were from Lipany
(Hethars) and at least they seemed to own some land!
Valentine�s Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping
- Yes. We've come a long way. Now we pickup the phone (or have someone do
it for us) and talk to the family, rather than write a letter, wait months
if ever for a reply. The other startling thing is that we see the church
records long before the cousins in Slovakia - they still don't have easy
On Mon, February 5, 2007 4:43 pm, Adrienne Sowards wrote:
> Thanks for everybody's comments and ideas about family movement in the
> and 1800's. Lots of good points and information!
> Funny how I consider sitting down and clicking through every village in
> Saros "tedious." Twenty years ago it would have been miraculous and
> Anyone else searching the name "Krajczer" out there? They were from
> (Hethars) and at least they seemed to own some land!
> Valentines Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping
> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
> Yahoo! Groups Links