Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Family Movement - 1700's

Expand Messages
  • Adrienne Sowards
    I realize I m asking for a lot of speculation, but I m wondering about the generalities. I know each family is different. How often would families move from
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 4, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      I realize I'm asking for a lot of speculation, but I'm wondering about the
      generalities. I know each family is different.

      How often would families move from one village to another in the
      1700-1800's? If they did move, would it generally be to a village a few
      miles away, or would some families make a big move to a village hundreds of
      miles away?

      I've been going over the 1715 census, and so far I've only found one surname
      in the same village that they were still in in the mid-1800's. So far I'm
      going thru each village in Saros, which has been a bit time consuming.

      Just curious!

      Thanks,
      Adrienne

      _________________________________________________________________
      Turn searches into helpful donations. Make your search count.
      http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_donation&FORM=WLMTAG
    • J. Michutka
      ... This may be the blind leading the blind here, and I hope someone more knowledgeable will jump in--I just found out about these records myself a week ago.
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 4, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        At 01:18 PM 2/4/2007, you wrote:

        >How often would families move from one village to another in the
        >1700-1800's? ...
        >I've been going over the 1715 census, and so far I've only found one surname
        >in the same village that they were still in in the mid-1800's.

        This may be the blind leading the blind here, and I hope someone more
        knowledgeable will jump in--I just found out about these records
        myself a week ago. According to Bill Tarkulich's site about the census:
        "This is a "Urbarim Register" (possession inventory) for the Feudal
        Estates. It includes a listing of all village heads of household who
        owned property and its description. ...Not very useful for genealogy
        (family tree) research. "
        So, it sounds like if a person wasn't head of household or a property
        owner, they wouldn't show up. Doesn't necessarily mean they weren't there.

        Julie Michutka
        jmm@...



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Janet Kozlay
        In my experience, you find both kinds of movement, both small and great. During the period of the Ottoman Empire in Hungary, vast areas became totally
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 4, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          In my experience, you find both kinds of movement, both small and great.
          During the period of the Ottoman Empire in Hungary, vast areas became
          totally deserted. When the Turks were finally expelled, many people moved to
          the previously unpopulated regions. I have found many families from Upper
          Hungary, now Slovakia, who moved south, hundreds of miles away, especially
          during the 1700s.



          Janet



          _____

          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Adrienne Sowards
          Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 1:18 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [S-R] Family Movement - 1700's



          I realize I'm asking for a lot of speculation, but I'm wondering about the
          generalities. I know each family is different.

          How often would families move from one village to another in the
          1700-1800's? If they did move, would it generally be to a village a few
          miles away, or would some families make a big move to a village hundreds of
          miles away?

          I've been going over the 1715 census, and so far I've only found one surname

          in the same village that they were still in in the mid-1800's. So far I'm
          going thru each village in Saros, which has been a bit time consuming.

          Just curious!

          Thanks,
          Adrienne

          __________________________________________________________
          Turn searches into helpful donations. Make your search count.
          http://click4thecau
          <http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagli
          ne_donation&FORM=WLMTAG>
          se.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_donation&FORM=WLM
          TAG





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • treimer@nycap.rr.com
          Also, the Census happened after an awful period of war and pestilence. Some family names survived only as children, living with someone else in the village,
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 4, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Also, the Census happened after an awful period of war and pestilence.
            Some family names survived only as children, living with someone else
            in the village, and cropping up in the parish registers only once old
            enough to marry.

            Thomas

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "J. Michutka" <jmm@...>
            Date: Sunday, February 4, 2007 2:56 pm
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Family Movement - 1700's
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

            > At 01:18 PM 2/4/2007, you wrote:
            >
            > >How often would families move from one village to another in the
            > >1700-1800's? ...
            > >I've been going over the 1715 census, and so far I've only found
            > one surname
            > >in the same village that they were still in in the mid-1800's.
            >
            > This may be the blind leading the blind here, and I hope someone
            > more
            > knowledgeable will jump in--I just found out about these records
            > myself a week ago. According to Bill Tarkulich's site about the
            > census:"This is a "Urbarim Register" (possession inventory) for
            > the Feudal
            > Estates. It includes a listing of all village heads of household
            > who
            > owned property and its description. ...Not very useful for
            > genealogy
            > (family tree) research. "
            > So, it sounds like if a person wasn't head of household or a
            > property
            > owner, they wouldn't show up. Doesn't necessarily mean they
            > weren't there.
            >
            > Julie Michutka
            > jmm@...
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
            > email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Bill Tarkulich
            Julie is right-on the mark. She s addressing the right question. Census 1715 is not a population census. It is a property census. It shows the property
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 4, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Julie is right-on the mark. She's addressing the right question.

              Census 1715 is not a population census. It is a property census. It shows
              the property owners and sometimes head of household. This is during serfdom
              period - before the 1848 emancipation of serfs/peasants. Households tended
              to be quite large - tons of people under one roof in peasant villages.
              Census were to inventory taxable property only. *sometimes* non-property
              owners (men) were listed when head of household, but not consistently.

              In my village, no Tarkulic' were listed on the early census, even though I
              know from other evidence they did exist. You are better off following back
              the CHURCH records, this is probably the only written records of peasants
              b/m/d. In this region, church records before the early 1700s are not very
              common although having been ordered by the Hungary government in the 1500s.
              Adoption of this decree was quickest in the cities and town (often 1500s
              records are found), slowest in the rural hinterlands (early 1700s is
              typical).


              Now, onto "Reasons for Movement", a tangential discussion.

              1. Many factors came into play, it's difficult to make generalizations.
              As Thomas, Janet and David have noted, the Ottomans and the action of
              property owners in the 1700s to establish villages were the largest reasons
              for population transfers.

              2. Towns and cities had a very different dynamics. Cities had factors of
              self-defense relative affluence, existence of craftsmen and tradesmen, and
              centers of political influence. Villages, primarily established and owned
              by private landholders usually had none of the above.

              3. Villages were subject to different influences depending on where they
              were located eastern Slovakia has historically been economically poorer than
              west.

              If I had to make a generalization, I'd say: a) that those who lived in/near
              cities/towns or near major transportation routes were often the most mobile,
              followed by b) certain occupations such as tradesmen (often Jews), shepards,
              craftsmen. Lastly, land-bound rural peasants were the least mobile (in debt
              to the landowner). As always, exceptions apply.

              In summary, when seeking out reasons for your village, it is important to
              study the history of your village. If you don't have a copy of the village
              description from "mesta a obce" (a brief couple paragraph summary in
              Slovak), I'm happy to email to anyone who asks.

              Bill


              -----Original Message-----
              From: J. Michutka [mailto:jmm@...]
              Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 2:53 PM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Family Movement - 1700's

              At 01:18 PM 2/4/2007, you wrote:

              >How often would families move from one village to another in the
              >1700-1800's? ...
              >I've been going over the 1715 census, and so far I've only found one
              surname
              >in the same village that they were still in in the mid-1800's.

              This may be the blind leading the blind here, and I hope someone more
              knowledgeable will jump in--I just found out about these records
              myself a week ago. According to Bill Tarkulich's site about the census:
              "This is a "Urbarim Register" (possession inventory) for the Feudal
              Estates. It includes a listing of all village heads of household who
              owned property and its description. ...Not very useful for genealogy
              (family tree) research. "
              So, it sounds like if a person wasn't head of household or a property
              owner, they wouldn't show up. Doesn't necessarily mean they weren't there.

              Julie Michutka
              jmm@...



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
              SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Adrienne Sowards
              Thanks for everybody s comments and ideas about family movement in the 1700 and 1800 s. Lots of good points and information! Funny how I consider sitting down
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 5, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Thanks for everybody's comments and ideas about family movement in the 1700
                and 1800's. Lots of good points and information!

                Funny how I consider sitting down and clicking through every village in
                Saros "tedious." Twenty years ago it would have been miraculous and speedy!

                Anyone else searching the name "Krajczer" out there? They were from Lipany
                (Hethars) and at least they seemed to own some land!

                _________________________________________________________________
                Valentine�s Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping
                http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode=wlmtagline
              • Bill Tarkulich
                Yes. We ve come a long way. Now we pickup the phone (or have someone do it for us) and talk to the family, rather than write a letter, wait months if ever
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 5, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Yes. We've come a long way. Now we pickup the phone (or have someone do
                  it for us) and talk to the family, rather than write a letter, wait months
                  if ever for a reply. The other startling thing is that we see the church
                  records long before the cousins in Slovakia - they still don't have easy
                  access.


                  On Mon, February 5, 2007 4:43 pm, Adrienne Sowards wrote:
                  > Thanks for everybody's comments and ideas about family movement in the
                  > 1700
                  > and 1800's. Lots of good points and information!
                  >
                  > Funny how I consider sitting down and clicking through every village in
                  > Saros "tedious." Twenty years ago it would have been miraculous and
                  > speedy!
                  >
                  > Anyone else searching the name "Krajczer" out there? They were from
                  > Lipany
                  > (Hethars) and at least they seemed to own some land!
                  >
                  > _________________________________________________________________
                  > Valentine’s Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping
                  > http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode=wlmtagline
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                  > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  --
                  Bill Tarkulich
                  http://www.iabsi.com
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.