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Marriages between different religions

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  • Carl Kotlarchik
    Does anyone know if people of different religions ever got married in both of their churches? I have a set of ancestors where the husband was Lutheran and the
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 16, 2006
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      Does anyone know if people of different religions ever got married in
      both of their churches? I have a set of ancestors where the husband
      was Lutheran and the wife was Roman Catholic. They were married in
      the Lutheran Church in 1848 but I cannot find any baptism records for
      their children in that Church. However, I do find the marriages of
      their children in that same church and it lists them as the parents.
      So, the family must have stayed there. The parent's marriage record
      says the bride was a "hajadon" or unmarried woman. But it also has a
      note on the far right which says "a memyasszony r. Kathliky _____
      hazassag vegyes". I think this says that the bride was Roman
      Catholic and this is a mixed marriage. Would she have been able to
      retain her religion or would she have had to convert? Since I can't
      find the baptism records for their children, I'm wondering if they
      possibly had them baptized as R. Catholics.

      The reason I'm trying to understand this is because I cannot find the
      baptism or death records for their daughter (my great-grandmother).
      However, she was married in the same Lutheran Church as her parents
      and all three of her children were baptized there (1870s). Two
      children died and their deaths are also recorded in Church records.
      The family story is that my great-grandmother also died during the
      birth of the third child but her death is not recorded in these
      Church records (1870-1895). So, is it possible that she was baptized
      as a R. Catholic and that her baptism and death records might be in
      some nearby Catholic church?
      I'd appreciate any thoughts any of you might have on this.
      CK
    • Janet Kozlay
      Dear Carl, Menyasszony simply means bride in Hungarian. Although mixed marriages were not the norm, we see plenty of them in the records. Sometimes the family
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 16, 2006
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        Dear Carl,



        Menyasszony simply means bride in Hungarian.



        Although mixed marriages were not the norm, we see plenty of them in the
        records. Sometimes the family chose to baptize sons in the father's church
        and daughters in the mother's. (I know personally of one instance where this
        is still done today.) Occasionally you will see lists of conversions in the
        church records, so this must have happened in some cases, but there were
        probably many where there was no conversion and the husband and wife kept
        their traditional religions.



        Bear in mind also that the religion of the godparents may be different, and
        the child may be baptized in their church. (The baby was taken to the church
        for baptism by the godmother.) However, the religion of the child, if
        different from the godparents, would be noted.



        You have not noted what village you are looking at. I presume that it had
        only a Lutheran church. You may need to identify the closest Roman Catholic
        church to find the missing entries.



        Janet





        _____

        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Carl Kotlarchik
        Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 1:32 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [S-R] Marriages between different religions



        Does anyone know if people of different religions ever got married in
        both of their churches? I have a set of ancestors where the husband
        was Lutheran and the wife was Roman Catholic. They were married in
        the Lutheran Church in 1848 but I cannot find any baptism records for
        their children in that Church. However, I do find the marriages of
        their children in that same church and it lists them as the parents.
        So, the family must have stayed there. The parent's marriage record
        says the bride was a "hajadon" or unmarried woman. But it also has a
        note on the far right which says "a memyasszony r. Kathliky _____
        hazassag vegyes". I think this says that the bride was Roman
        Catholic and this is a mixed marriage. Would she have been able to
        retain her religion or would she have had to convert? Since I can't
        find the baptism records for their children, I'm wondering if they
        possibly had them baptized as R. Catholics.

        The reason I'm trying to understand this is because I cannot find the
        baptism or death records for their daughter (my great-grandmother).
        However, she was married in the same Lutheran Church as her parents
        and all three of her children were baptized there (1870s). Two
        children died and their deaths are also recorded in Church records.
        The family story is that my great-grandmother also died during the
        birth of the third child but her death is not recorded in these
        Church records (1870-1895). So, is it possible that she was baptized
        as a R. Catholic and that her baptism and death records might be in
        some nearby Catholic church?
        I'd appreciate any thoughts any of you might have on this.
        CK





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jim
        The RC Church has had a long standing policy of “requiring” that children of a mixed marriage be raised RC. I would expect the mother would have had a lot
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 16, 2006
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          The RC Church has had a long standing policy of �requiring� that children of
          a mixed marriage be raised RC. I would expect the mother would have had a
          lot of pressure placed on her to have the children baptized as RC.



          Jim



          _____

          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Carl Kotlarchik
          Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 1:32 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [S-R] Marriages between different religions



          Does anyone know if people of different religions ever got married in
          both of their churches? I have a set of ancestors where the husband
          was Lutheran and the wife was Roman Catholic. They were married in
          the Lutheran Church in 1848 but I cannot find any baptism records for
          their children in that Church. However, I do find the marriages of
          their children in that same church and it lists them as the parents.
          So, the family must have stayed there. The parent's marriage record
          says the bride was a "hajadon" or unmarried woman. But it also has a
          note on the far right which says "a memyasszony r. Kathliky _____
          hazassag vegyes". I think this says that the bride was Roman
          Catholic and this is a mixed marriage. Would she have been able to
          retain her religion or would she have had to convert? Since I can't
          find the baptism records for their children, I'm wondering if they
          possibly had them baptized as R. Catholics.

          The reason I'm trying to understand this is because I cannot find the
          baptism or death records for their daughter (my great-grandmother)-.
          However, she was married in the same Lutheran Church as her parents
          and all three of her children were baptized there (1870s). Two
          children died and their deaths are also recorded in Church records.
          The family story is that my great-grandmother also died during the
          birth of the third child but her death is not recorded in these
          Church records (1870-1895). So, is it possible that she was baptized
          as a R. Catholic and that her baptism and death records might be in
          some nearby Catholic church?
          I'd appreciate any thoughts any of you might have on this.
          CK




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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Janet Kozlay
          Carl, I missed the rest of your quotation. You are right that hazassag vegyes means mixed marriage. Janet [Non-text portions of this message have been
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 16, 2006
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            Carl, I missed the rest of your quotation. You are right that "hazassag
            vegyes" means mixed marriage.



            Janet





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Carl Kotlarchik
            Thank you for the replies. Janet, to answer your question, the Catholic family name was Szabados and they lived in Kun Tapolcza (now Kunova Teplica). The
            Message 5 of 5 , Dec 17, 2006
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              Thank you for the replies.
              Janet, to answer your question, the Catholic family name was Szabados
              and they lived in Kun Tapolcza (now Kunova Teplica). The Lutheran
              family name was Vapenik and they lived in Kisgencs which is sometimes
              just called Gencs and is today called Honce. But the marriages
              occurred in the Lutheran Church in Csetnek (Stitnik). There is not a
              Catholic Church in Kun Taplolcza but I checked and there is one in
              Csetnek. (This is when I really miss not having the Dvorszak
              Gazetteer on line anymore.) So, I think I will order the Catholic
              films for Csetnek and see if some of the children were baptized in
              that church.
              CK


              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Dear Carl,
              >
              >
              >
              > Menyasszony simply means bride in Hungarian.
              >
              >
              >
              > Although mixed marriages were not the norm, we see plenty of them
              in the
              > records. Sometimes the family chose to baptize sons in the father's
              church
              > and daughters in the mother's. (I know personally of one instance
              where this
              > is still done today.) Occasionally you will see lists of
              conversions in the
              > church records, so this must have happened in some cases, but there
              were
              > probably many where there was no conversion and the husband and
              wife kept
              > their traditional religions.
              >
              >
              >
              > Bear in mind also that the religion of the godparents may be
              different, and
              > the child may be baptized in their church. (The baby was taken to
              the church
              > for baptism by the godmother.) However, the religion of the child,
              if
              > different from the godparents, would be noted.
              >
              >
              >
              > You have not noted what village you are looking at. I presume that
              it had
              > only a Lutheran church. You may need to identify the closest Roman
              Catholic
              > church to find the missing entries.
              >
              >
              >
              > Janet
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
              ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
              > Behalf Of Carl Kotlarchik
              > Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 1:32 PM
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [S-R] Marriages between different religions
              >
              >
              >
              > Does anyone know if people of different religions ever got married
              in
              > both of their churches? I have a set of ancestors where the husband
              > was Lutheran and the wife was Roman Catholic. They were married in
              > the Lutheran Church in 1848 but I cannot find any baptism records
              for
              > their children in that Church. However, I do find the marriages of
              > their children in that same church and it lists them as the
              parents.
              > So, the family must have stayed there. The parent's marriage record
              > says the bride was a "hajadon" or unmarried woman. But it also has
              a
              > note on the far right which says "a memyasszony r. Kathliky _____
              > hazassag vegyes". I think this says that the bride was Roman
              > Catholic and this is a mixed marriage. Would she have been able to
              > retain her religion or would she have had to convert? Since I can't
              > find the baptism records for their children, I'm wondering if they
              > possibly had them baptized as R. Catholics.
              >
              > The reason I'm trying to understand this is because I cannot find
              the
              > baptism or death records for their daughter (my great-grandmother).
              > However, she was married in the same Lutheran Church as her parents
              > and all three of her children were baptized there (1870s). Two
              > children died and their deaths are also recorded in Church records.
              > The family story is that my great-grandmother also died during the
              > birth of the third child but her death is not recorded in these
              > Church records (1870-1895). So, is it possible that she was
              baptized
              > as a R. Catholic and that her baptism and death records might be in
              > some nearby Catholic church?
              > I'd appreciate any thoughts any of you might have on this.
              > CK
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
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