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Re: [S-R] Zsakocz in the 17th century Urbaria

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  • david1law@aol.com
    Dear Thomas: When you are searching for references to EISDORF/ZAKOCZ in the ARCANUM database, I would recommend that you use just the first couple letters of
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 1, 2006
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      Dear Thomas:

      When you are searching for references to EISDORF/ZAKOCZ in the ARCANUM
      database, I would recommend that you use just the first couple letters of each
      name followed by the wildcard * (asterisk). I would also recommend using the
      various alternative spellings combined with the wildcard * (asterisk). I
      already found an awesome 13th century reference to MULLENBACH (MLYNICA) spelled
      MILLENBACH with other references to LOMNITZ and other villages in the High
      Tatra region of ZIPS/SPIS/SZEPES. I think that this is a document that you will
      want to see. There are several dates mentioned in the document, both 1298
      and 1248 and also MCCXVIII (which may be a transcription error, as the note at
      the top of the document indicates a 1298 date). At the bottom of the
      document, there are references to several books -- one by Wagner, one by Bardosy,
      with page numbers, but the exact titles are not identified in the footnote to
      this document. EISDORF is also referenced as EYSDORF and ISAACI and ZAKOCZ.
      I'm not sure if you have already seen this document or not, but if you do a
      search in ARCANUM for ZAKOC* you should be able to readily find it. If you run
      into any problems finding the document, let me know and I will try my best
      to get it to you. In either event, I do recommend using all known variant
      spellings of each village name when searching the ARCANUM database -- usually
      the first several letters of each alternative spelling followed by the wildcard
      * (asterisk). Because of the time period of the ARCANUM database, as well
      as because of transcription problems, I have often found variant spellings of
      one village while searching for a neighboring village. The ARCANUM database
      is an awesome resource. This is the hyperlink to the particular document
      which I mentioned:

      _Codex diplomaticvs Hvngariae ecclesiasticvs ac civilis/VI/2./CODEX
      DIPLOMATICVS/–_
      (http://www.arcanum.hu/mol/lpext.dll/fejer/b98/b9b/bf2?f=hitlist&q=zakoc*&x=Advanced&opt=&skc=8000000300000BF3&c=curr&gh=1&2.0#LPHit1)

      I'm not sure if you will recall my prior private correspondence to you
      regarding MULLENBACH, but my ancestors on my paternal grandmother's side of the
      family (HRONEC) appear to have been the first permanent residents of ALT
      SCHMECKS (STARY SMOKOVEC) according to the MULLENBACH (MLYNICA) church records,
      where my great, great, great grandfather JAN HRONEC had been leading HAJDU as
      well as the SILVAE KARPATY CUSTODIS (literally "Custodian/Guardian of the
      Carpathian Forest" in Latin) and one of the early leading mountain climbing guides
      in the High Tatras, so I have a great interest in the history of MULLENBACH
      (MLYNICA). One of the godparents in the HRONEC clan was JOANNES FRANCISKUSZ
      (CUSTOS SILVA ZSAKOCZ -- "Custodian/Guardian of the Eisdorf/Zakocz Forest").
      Other family members come from SCHLAGENDORF (SZALOK) and RUSCHENBACH
      (RUZBACHY) so I am always very curious about this area of Slovakia and its history.

      Best regards,


      David Michael Baloga


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • TR HOMEMAIL
      David, I found a lot about Eisdorf, but not the Census from the 17th century. Is browsing possible by going to the type of record? Thomas ... From:
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 3, 2006
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        David,

        I found a lot about Eisdorf, but not the Census from the 17th century. Is
        browsing possible by going to the type of record?

        Thomas

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <david1law@...>
        To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 1:19 AM
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Zsakocz in the 17th century Urbaria


        Dear Thomas:

        When you are searching for references to EISDORF/ZAKOCZ in the ARCANUM
        database, I would recommend that you use just the first couple letters of
        each
        name followed by the wildcard * (asterisk). I would also recommend using
        the
        various alternative spellings combined with the wildcard * (asterisk). I
        already found an awesome 13th century reference to MULLENBACH (MLYNICA)
        spelled
        MILLENBACH with other references to LOMNITZ and other villages in the High
        Tatra region of ZIPS/SPIS/SZEPES. I think that this is a document that you
        will
        want to see. There are several dates mentioned in the document, both 1298
        and 1248 and also MCCXVIII (which may be a transcription error, as the note
        at
        the top of the document indicates a 1298 date). At the bottom of the
        document, there are references to several books -- one by Wagner, one by
        Bardosy,
        with page numbers, but the exact titles are not identified in the footnote
        to
        this document. EISDORF is also referenced as EYSDORF and ISAACI and
        ZAKOCZ.
        I'm not sure if you have already seen this document or not, but if you do a
        search in ARCANUM for ZAKOC* you should be able to readily find it. If you
        run
        into any problems finding the document, let me know and I will try my best
        to get it to you. In either event, I do recommend using all known variant
        spellings of each village name when searching the ARCANUM database --
        usually
        the first several letters of each alternative spelling followed by the
        wildcard
        * (asterisk). Because of the time period of the ARCANUM database, as well
        as because of transcription problems, I have often found variant spellings
        of
        one village while searching for a neighboring village. The ARCANUM
        database
        is an awesome resource. This is the hyperlink to the particular document
        which I mentioned:

        _Codex diplomaticvs Hvngariae ecclesiasticvs ac civilis/VI/2./CODEX
        DIPLOMATICVS/-_
        (http://www.arcanum.hu/mol/lpext.dll/fejer/b98/b9b/bf2?f=hitlist&q=zakoc*&x=
        Advanced&opt=&skc=8000000300000BF3&c=curr&gh=1&2.0#LPHit1)

        I'm not sure if you will recall my prior private correspondence to you
        regarding MULLENBACH, but my ancestors on my paternal grandmother's side of
        the
        family (HRONEC) appear to have been the first permanent residents of ALT
        SCHMECKS (STARY SMOKOVEC) according to the MULLENBACH (MLYNICA) church
        records,
        where my great, great, great grandfather JAN HRONEC had been leading HAJDU
        as
        well as the SILVAE KARPATY CUSTODIS (literally "Custodian/Guardian of the
        Carpathian Forest" in Latin) and one of the early leading mountain climbing
        guides
        in the High Tatras, so I have a great interest in the history of MULLENBACH
        (MLYNICA). One of the godparents in the HRONEC clan was JOANNES
        FRANCISKUSZ
        (CUSTOS SILVA ZSAKOCZ -- "Custodian/Guardian of the Eisdorf/Zakocz
        Forest").
        Other family members come from SCHLAGENDORF (SZALOK) and RUSCHENBACH
        (RUZBACHY) so I am always very curious about this area of Slovakia and its
        history.

        Best regards,


        David Michael Baloga


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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      • david1law@aol.com
        Dear Thomas: Yes, it is possible to browse through the 1715 Hungarian Urbarian Census. Once you get to the regular ARCANUM screen, on the left-hand side
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 3, 2006
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          Dear Thomas:

          Yes, it is possible to browse through the 1715 Hungarian Urbarian Census.
          Once you get to the regular ARCANUM screen, on the left-hand side (middle of
          the page) click the folder marked -- Az 1715. évi országos összeírás -- which
          will then show you a list of folders for the various counties as well as
          major cities such KASSA (KOSICE), EPERJES (PRESOV), KESMARK, LOCSE (LEVOCA), etc.
          The ZIPS/SPIS/SZEPES folder is the seventh on the list -- just click the
          folder -- which then divides into three JARAS subfolders -- each of which will
          need to be searched. The villages are generally arranged in a logical order,
          but one does need to visually scan the entire list as it is not in
          alphabetical order. As a point of reference, MUHLENBACH is listed under JARAS 1 as
          MILLEMBACH. ZAKOCZ (with the diacritical mark over the O) is 9th from the
          bottom on JARAS 1.

          If you meant the earlier records from the 1600's (17th century), I am not
          sure, as I have not been able to find them without the typical search type
          query.

          Best regards,


          David


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • treimer@nycap.rr.com
          I have what I need from the 1715 census. It is the three urbaria from the 17th century I can t seem to pull up. Thomas ... From: david1law@aol.com Date:
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 3, 2006
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            I have what I need from the 1715 census. It is the three urbaria from
            the 17th century I can't seem to pull up.

            Thomas

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: david1law@...
            Date: Friday, November 3, 2006 12:06 pm
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Zsakocz in the 17th century Urbaria
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

            > Dear Thomas:
            >
            > Yes, it is possible to browse through the 1715 Hungarian Urbarian
            > Census.
            > Once you get to the regular ARCANUM screen, on the left-hand side
            > (middle of
            > the page) click the folder marked -- Az 1715. évi országos
            > összeírás -- which
            > will then show you a list of folders for the various counties as
            > well as
            > major cities such KASSA (KOSICE), EPERJES (PRESOV), KESMARK, LOCSE
            > (LEVOCA), etc.
            > The ZIPS/SPIS/SZEPES folder is the seventh on the list -- just
            > click the
            > folder -- which then divides into three JARAS subfolders -- each
            > of which will
            > need to be searched. The villages are generally arranged in a
            > logical order,
            > but one does need to visually scan the entire list as it is not
            > in
            > alphabetical order. As a point of reference, MUHLENBACH is listed
            > under JARAS 1 as
            > MILLEMBACH. ZAKOCZ (with the diacritical mark over the O) is 9th
            > from the
            > bottom on JARAS 1.
            >
            > If you meant the earlier records from the 1600's (17th century),
            > I am not
            > sure, as I have not been able to find them without the typical
            > search type
            > query.
            >
            > Best regards,
            >
            >
            > David
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
            > email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • david1law@aol.com
            Hi Thomas, I didn t find those 17th century urbarial yet, but if you do a search for EYSDO* in the ARCANUM database, you will pull up two documents regarding
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 3, 2006
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              Hi Thomas,

              I didn't find those 17th century urbarial yet, but if you do a search for
              EYSDO* in the ARCANUM database, you will pull up two documents regarding
              EISDORF, one that I previously mentioned from 1298 and a second one from 1312, the
              latter of which the Saxons of Spis. I think you will find this one very
              fascinating as well.

              Best regards,


              David


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • david1law@aol.com
              Hi again Thomas, If you do a search for SAKOC* in ARCANUM, you will pull three documents from the 17th century, the first of which is from 1686, the second
              Message 6 of 6 , Nov 3, 2006
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                Hi again Thomas,

                If you do a search for SAKOC* in ARCANUM, you will pull three documents from
                the 17th century, the first of which is from 1686, the second from 1671, and
                the third from 1694. The hyperlinks inside of ARCANUM relate to the
                URBARIA. The first document mentions EISDORF (SAKOCZ) and Count Istvan Csaky, the
                other two documents appear to reference EISDORF (SAKOCZ) only in passing. I
                do hope this helps a little.

                Best regards,


                David





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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