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Re: [S-R] Example of rude behavior

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  • Vladimir Bohinc
    Dear Carl, I am very sorry that you took this avenue and did not recognize the real meaning of my message. What makes me mad is when enquirers get advices or
    Message 1 of 3 , Nov 1, 2006
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      Dear Carl,
      I am very sorry that you took this avenue and did not recognize the real meaning of my message.
      What makes me mad is when enquirers get advices or opinions, which lead them to an absolutely wrong path. I know no other words. It is a waste of time and this is what I wanted to save you from.
      I also feel sorry for folks, who obviously know so little that they are depending on any advice they can get and are not in position to correctly evaluate it, which leads them to lenghty and lenghty discussions before they settle with hopefully correct information.
      Zeliar is a term which has only one meaning and whoever is trying to find another meaning just because the word is phonetically similar to another word is really wasting time and misleading.
      Sorry Carl, I just had a feeling I have to stop you .If I used words or style which insulted you that much I am sorry again. I would have expected quite the opposite, though.
      When this was happening, there was another, very similar thing going on on another list. Someone was tring to find out the meaning and origin of the name Zajacz.
      I wrote to that person that it is a rabbit, which I am sure everyone here knows as well. Now, here comes a helpful somebody and suggests also to take into acount the word Dzajic, which is also a surname. Someone found it on Google and thought, yes , this would be helpful. A nice second opinion:-)
      Now, this Dzajic was a serbian football player, probably still alive. Sure enough, the word Dzajic has absolutely nothing to do with our Zajacz, although is sounds very similar. I wrote to this person to abandon Dzajic, but it did not help. The person decided to follow on also on Dzajic, just because someone said so.
      I feel very sorry for those who do not have a clue about the languages and are subjects to such misleadings, but are doing their research in good faith.
      Why you find my answer rude is beyond me. It is not personal, I used no naming or labelling. I just pointed out what is wrong with such thinking.
      As I see, you are still using the term "probably zeliar", which means you are still not sure. Dear Carl, these terms are absolutely common in our work and we see them thousands of times. Therefore I was surprised that there is a discussion about that at all. This is absolutely basics, which you will find in the first record you look at.
      And one more thing; for unknown reason there are days when I do not receive any mails from the lists. So I did not receive your reply to my posting, if there was any. I would have answered it. I hate leaving people living on with wrong impressions.
      Is putting professionals into " " a sign of envy or disdain? If nothing else, we are liable for your deeds.
      You are a proud Slovak. Good. I have done for rising of Slovak self esteem and conscience more than many other Slovaks.
      Yesterday I read an editorial in Aviation Week and Space Technology ( my hobby) about the latest movie from Clint Eastwood about Iwo Jima, the flag rising and the heroes. It appears that the only hero was the photographer. There is not a single mentioning of Mike Strank, who was the hero there and died a day or two later. I will write to AWST a complain about this unjustice. Would you do that?
      With best regards,
      Vladimir Bohinc



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Carl Kotlarchik
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 2:17 AM
      Subject: [S-R] Example of rude behavior


      This is an example of what I consider a rude reply. I now recognize
      that the word is probably "zeliar". But my inquiry was legitimate
      and did not deserve the rude and patronizing reply that I
      received. This has got to stop. I am a proud Slovak who will not
      be treated as a second class person. No one in this group should be
      afraid to post a question for fear of being insulted by
      the "professionals".

      I believe my questions are presented in a dignified and polite
      manner. I expect the same type of reply and so should everyone else
      in this group.
      Carl Kotlarchik

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Vladimir Bohinc" <konekta@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Dear Carl,
      > Please, please. This is not a subject which allows second opinion.
      Waste of time. Zeliar is what I said; a man who only owed a house.
      > Zelezar ( from zelezo=iron in slovenian or zeljezo in croat) is a
      ironworker, but all this has nothing to do with you.
      > Vladimir
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Carl Kotlarchik
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 6:36 PM
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Unknown occupation
      >
      >
      > Thanks very much for the replies. Someone has also suggested off-
      > line to me that this word could be "z'eljar" or someone who
      mines
      > iron ore or is involved with the making of steel. But I don't
      know
      > what language that would be. Actually, if this is a word for a
      > miner, then it would make sense in my g-grandfather's case. The
      > family came from Gomor county which is in the ore mountains. So,
      > there was mining all around my ancestor's villages. My
      grandmother
      > also once told me that her father worked in a guarry. So, this
      would
      > fit. But the on-line dictionaries list "banik" as the word for
      > miner in Slovak and "ba'nya'sz" in Hungarian. Does anyone else
      > recognize the word "z'eljar" as possibly "iron ore miner".
      > Carl
      >
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Armata, Joseph R.
      (JArmata)"
      > <JArmata@> wrote:
      > >
      > > That's the same as zeliar, or zseller in Hungarian, or
      inquilinus
      > in
      > > Latin - someone who owns his house and just a very small plot
      of
      > land.
      > > In English sometimes called a cotter.
      > >
      > > Joe
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Carl
      Kotlarchik
      > > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 8:54 AM
      > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: [S-R] Unknown occupation
      > >
      > >
      > > I have placed a portion of one of my family church documents
      in
      > the
      > > files section of this site. It is labeled as "Unknown
      > occupation".
      > > Next to the names of the parents are the occupations of the
      > > individuals. Most of the names and occupations are written in
      > Slovak
      > > but some are in Hungarian. The Slovak word for farm-
      > hand, "rolnik"
      > > can be seen. But also the Hungarian word for
      shepherd, "pasztor"
      > > (misspelled as "pastyr" in this document) can also be seen. I
      > have
      > > tried to translate the term used with the two families at the
      > bottom
      > > of the page but have not been able to find it. It appears to
      > > be "zoljar" but I can't find anything like this in either
      Slovak
      > or
      > > Hungarian dictionaries. Does anyone recognize this word? The
      > other
      > > thing that appears is the abbreviation "ev" which indicates
      that
      > they
      > > were members of the Lutheran Church.
      > > I'd appreciate any suggestions.
      > > Carl
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
      > email
      > > to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.1759 (20060916) __________
      >
      > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
      > http://www.eset.sk
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >





      __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.1842 (20061027) __________

      Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
      http://www.eset.sk


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Bratgirl54@aol.com
      I agree with you! I ve always taught my children that no question is a stupid question. How else to learn without questioning. Quite a few of us come to
      Message 2 of 3 , Nov 1, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        I agree with you! I've always taught my children that no question is a
        stupid question. How else to learn without questioning. Quite a few of us come
        to this website as Americans to learn about our Slovak heritage that our
        parents/ancestors have a tendency to keep within themselves. Without my personal
        research and very little information supplied by my mother, I was able to
        learn what I can. Keep on asking your questions!


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Carl Kotlarchik
        Dear Vladimir, First, let me say that I am very grateful for the help and assistance you provide this forum. I also appreciate very much the various questions
        Message 3 of 3 , Nov 1, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Dear Vladimir,
          First, let me say that I am very grateful for the help and
          assistance you provide this forum. I also appreciate very much the
          various questions you have answered for me and enjoy reading the
          many helpful articles you have published. Consequently, I have
          always tried to be respectful of you in my correspondence.

          I realize that you have a very loyal and supportive following in
          this group. I have heard from many of them today. But you should
          also know that I have received numerous e-mails from individuals who
          support what I said in my earlier posting. Some have even told me
          that they are afraid to post questions for fear of being made to
          feel dumb or insulted. That is what I'm objecting to and why I've
          spoken up.

          I do believe you are very well intentioned and are trying to be
          helpful. However, you should be aware that many of us sometimes
          hear a tone of condescension in your responses. Clearly, some see
          it as being direct but others as rudeness. Perhaps this is due to
          the cultural differences that exist between us. So, I think we can
          all learn something from this dialog.

          It is never my intention to insult you or anyone else in this forum
          and I try to treat everyone with respect. But I also expect the
          same courtesy and will continue to speak up when I don't.
          with best regards,
          Carl Kotlarchik



          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Vladimir Bohinc" <konekta@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Dear Carl,
          > I am very sorry that you took this avenue and did not recognize
          the real meaning of my message.
          > What makes me mad is when enquirers get advices or opinions, which
          lead them to an absolutely wrong path. I know no other words. It is
          a waste of time and this is what I wanted to save you from.
          > I also feel sorry for folks, who obviously know so little that
          they are depending on any advice they can get and are not in
          position to correctly evaluate it, which leads them to lenghty and
          lenghty discussions before they settle with hopefully correct
          information.
          > Zeliar is a term which has only one meaning and whoever is trying
          to find another meaning just because the word is phonetically
          similar to another word is really wasting time and misleading.
          > Sorry Carl, I just had a feeling I have to stop you .If I used
          words or style which insulted you that much I am sorry again. I
          would have expected quite the opposite, though.
          > When this was happening, there was another, very similar thing
          going on on another list. Someone was tring to find out the meaning
          and origin of the name Zajacz.
          > I wrote to that person that it is a rabbit, which I am sure
          everyone here knows as well. Now, here comes a helpful somebody and
          suggests also to take into acount the word Dzajic, which is also a
          surname. Someone found it on Google and thought, yes , this would be
          helpful. A nice second opinion:-)
          > Now, this Dzajic was a serbian football player, probably still
          alive. Sure enough, the word Dzajic has absolutely nothing to do
          with our Zajacz, although is sounds very similar. I wrote to this
          person to abandon Dzajic, but it did not help. The person decided to
          follow on also on Dzajic, just because someone said so.
          > I feel very sorry for those who do not have a clue about the
          languages and are subjects to such misleadings, but are doing their
          research in good faith.
          > Why you find my answer rude is beyond me. It is not personal, I
          used no naming or labelling. I just pointed out what is wrong with
          such thinking.
          > As I see, you are still using the term "probably zeliar", which
          means you are still not sure. Dear Carl, these terms are absolutely
          common in our work and we see them thousands of times. Therefore I
          was surprised that there is a discussion about that at all. This is
          absolutely basics, which you will find in the first record you look
          at.
          > And one more thing; for unknown reason there are days when I do
          not receive any mails from the lists. So I did not receive your
          reply to my posting, if there was any. I would have answered it. I
          hate leaving people living on with wrong impressions.
          > Is putting professionals into " " a sign of envy or disdain? If
          nothing else, we are liable for your deeds.
          > You are a proud Slovak. Good. I have done for rising of Slovak
          self esteem and conscience more than many other Slovaks.
          > Yesterday I read an editorial in Aviation Week and Space
          Technology ( my hobby) about the latest movie from Clint Eastwood
          about Iwo Jima, the flag rising and the heroes. It appears that the
          only hero was the photographer. There is not a single mentioning of
          Mike Strank, who was the hero there and died a day or two later. I
          will write to AWST a complain about this unjustice. Would you do
          that?
          > With best regards,
          > Vladimir Bohinc
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Carl Kotlarchik
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 2:17 AM
          > Subject: [S-R] Example of rude behavior
          >
          >
          > This is an example of what I consider a rude reply. I now
          recognize
          > that the word is probably "zeliar". But my inquiry was
          legitimate
          > and did not deserve the rude and patronizing reply that I
          > received. This has got to stop. I am a proud Slovak who will not
          > be treated as a second class person. No one in this group should
          be
          > afraid to post a question for fear of being insulted by
          > the "professionals".
          >
          > I believe my questions are presented in a dignified and polite
          > manner. I expect the same type of reply and so should everyone
          else
          > in this group.
          > Carl Kotlarchik
          >
          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Vladimir Bohinc"
          <konekta@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Dear Carl,
          > > Please, please. This is not a subject which allows second
          opinion.
          > Waste of time. Zeliar is what I said; a man who only owed a
          house.
          > > Zelezar ( from zelezo=iron in slovenian or zeljezo in croat)
          is a
          > ironworker, but all this has nothing to do with you.
          > > Vladimir
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: Carl Kotlarchik
          > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 6:36 PM
          > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Unknown occupation
          > >
          > >
          > > Thanks very much for the replies. Someone has also suggested
          off-
          > > line to me that this word could be "z'eljar" or someone who
          > mines
          > > iron ore or is involved with the making of steel. But I don't
          > know
          > > what language that would be. Actually, if this is a word for a
          > > miner, then it would make sense in my g-grandfather's case.
          The
          > > family came from Gomor county which is in the ore mountains.
          So,
          > > there was mining all around my ancestor's villages. My
          > grandmother
          > > also once told me that her father worked in a guarry. So, this
          > would
          > > fit. But the on-line dictionaries list "banik" as the word for
          > > miner in Slovak and "ba'nya'sz" in Hungarian. Does anyone else
          > > recognize the word "z'eljar" as possibly "iron ore miner".
          > > Carl
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Armata, Joseph R.
          > (JArmata)"
          > > <JArmata@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > That's the same as zeliar, or zseller in Hungarian, or
          > inquilinus
          > > in
          > > > Latin - someone who owns his house and just a very small
          plot
          > of
          > > land.
          > > > In English sometimes called a cotter.
          > > >
          > > > Joe
          > > >
          > > > -----Original Message-----
          > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > > > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Carl
          > Kotlarchik
          > > > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 8:54 AM
          > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Subject: [S-R] Unknown occupation
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > I have placed a portion of one of my family church documents
          > in
          > > the
          > > > files section of this site. It is labeled as "Unknown
          > > occupation".
          > > > Next to the names of the parents are the occupations of the
          > > > individuals. Most of the names and occupations are written
          in
          > > Slovak
          > > > but some are in Hungarian. The Slovak word for farm-
          > > hand, "rolnik"
          > > > can be seen. But also the Hungarian word for
          > shepherd, "pasztor"
          > > > (misspelled as "pastyr" in this document) can also be seen.
          I
          > > have
          > > > tried to translate the term used with the two families at
          the
          > > bottom
          > > > of the page but have not been able to find it. It appears to
          > > > be "zoljar" but I can't find anything like this in either
          > Slovak
          > > or
          > > > Hungarian dictionaries. Does anyone recognize this word? The
          > > other
          > > > thing that appears is the abbreviation "ev" which indicates
          > that
          > > they
          > > > were members of the Lutheran Church.
          > > > I'd appreciate any suggestions.
          > > > Carl
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
          > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send
          blank
          > > email
          > > > to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.1759 (20060916) __________
          > >
          > > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
          > > http://www.eset.sk
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.1842 (20061027) __________
          >
          > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
          > http://www.eset.sk
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
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